Deshaun Watson officially requests trade from Houston

[BillsVet]

5 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I find this Watson thing fascinating. We really haven't seen this in the NFL before: elite QB demanding a trade, implying that he'd sit out rather than continue playing for his current team. It's not a money/restructure my contract thing; it's a "I don't want to play for this stinking franchise anymore" thing.

It's commonplace in the NBA, and it works (see most recently Harden, James). If it works for Watson it will set a precedent.

 

Maybe he's taking a cue from Harden.

 

David Culley is an uninspired hiring, but the idea Watson wanted input in the GM hire is absurd.  Yes, he's the franchise QB, but getting to contribute to that decision, well, is a bridge too far even in NFL circles.  

 

Bill O'Brien trading Hopkins out from underneath him combined with the 2020 season is him wanting a fresh start.  But there's almost no compensation a team will offer to make that trade worth it unless Watson really digs in his heals and makes this an off-season drama fest.

[mannc]

56 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Wandered across this piece from a Phins fan site and thought the perspective was interesting.

https://phinphanatic.com/2021/01/29/deshaun-watson-force-way-off-miami-dolphins/

 

Fundamentally, their take is:

-Houston has been in the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years (not quite correct, 2 of the last 3 or 4 of the last 6)

-Watson just inked a huge new contract

-Things happen and we saw Houston go into a tailspin last year

-"What happens if the Dolphins throw all their draft capital to the Texans for Watson and regress? Will he want out of Miami then too?"

 

Seems like a reasonable question for fans of a team trading for Watson to ask.  If the guy is gonna ink a big contract in Houston and then pitch a snit and say he's done with the team and demand a trade 5 months later from the Texans, what would stop him from doing the same thing to his new team if a year or two go by and it's not all peaches and playoffs?

 

Carson Palmer asked to be traded and retired rather than play for Cincy after 7 or 8 seasons.  The Raiders ruined themselves with draft picks and salary to trade for him and didn't get much for it under the circumstances, only to flip him to Zona 2 years later for a fraction of what they gave up. 

 

Giving up a lot for a dissatisfied starter from another team doesn't always work too well for the buyer.

 

Seems highly unlikely that team would regress with Watson, no matter how much draft capital they gave up.  They have two firsts and two seconds this year and a full draft next year, and of course they are already a borderline playoff team.  I don’t know how they regress by adding a top 4 quarterback to the mix.  In fact, they would be downright scary. Every Bills fan should hope this doesn’t happen.

Edited January 30, 2021 by mannc

[Hapless Bills Fan]

31 minutes ago, mannc said:

Seems highly unlikely that team would regress with Watson, no matter how much draft capital they gave up.  They have two firsts and two seconds this year and a full draft next year, and of course they are already a borderline playoff team.  I don’t know how they regress by adding a top 4 quarterback to the mix.  In fact, they would be downright scary. Every Bills fan should hope this doesn’t happen.

 

I mean, it all depends upon a lot of factors besides the QB, right?  Who will they bring in at OC, and will he really be as good or better an OC as Chan Gailey?  What will they do with those draft picks?  For that matter, what kind of system will the new OC run and would it suit Watson as well as what he was running in Houston?

 

The Dolphins went 10-6 and lost a WC game in 2016 and everyone was picking them as the new hot team in the AFC East. Next.

 

I'll grant you their D and ST looked more legit this past year, but the Bills carved them up in Week 17 and DCs will be watching that film.  So it's far from a sure bet, just as it's not a sure bet that the Bills will repeat this year's success next season (much though I want to believe it's the start of a run)

[Doc]

My son told me yesterday that our good buddy Nick Wrong said that the Bills should look to trade for Watson. 

[bills6969]

 

this guy is a total ass-clown.   I’d give a slight edge to Allen because he 1) is younger and has more upside,  2) has a better arm.  The only valid argument for trading Allen for Watson is that Watson already has signed his big contract (32m aav),  and will probably be cheaper than Allen’s. Needless to say these guys are in the same class, so it would not be a “no-brainer” as this doofus suggests.  He’s just trying to drive his personal agenda of hate against Josh Allen I guess.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, bills6969 said:

 

this guy is a total ass-clown.   I’d give a slight edge to Allen because he 1) is younger and has more upside,  2) has a better arm.  The only valid argument for trading Allen for Watson is that Watson already has signed his big contract (32m aav),  and will probably be cheaper than Allen’s. Needless to say these guys are in the same class, so it would not be a “no-brainer” as this doofus suggests.  He’s just trying to drive his personal agenda of hate against Josh Allen I guess.

We have to take it for now. His whole argument was Josh Allen is no where close to Mahomes. He was right. Just have to take until next year. 

[Doc]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

We have to take it for now. His whole argument was Josh Allen is no where close to Mahomes. He was right. Just have to take until next year. 

 

Huh?  No the argument is Watson is better than Josh, not Mahomes.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Huh?  No the argument is Watson is better than Josh, not Mahomes.

He's just rubbing it in. 

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He's just rubbing it in. 

 

Rubbing what in?  Watson guided his team to 4-12.  Josh took his to the AFCCG.

[UKBillFan]

40 minutes ago, bills6969 said:

 

this guy is a total ass-clown.   I’d give a slight edge to Allen because he 1) is younger and has more upside,  2) has a better arm.  The only valid argument for trading Allen for Watson is that Watson already has signed his big contract (32m aav),  and will probably be cheaper than Allen’s. Needless to say these guys are in the same class, so it would not be a “no-brainer” as this doofus suggests.  He’s just trying to drive his personal agenda of hate against Josh Allen I guess.

Listening to the clip itself he basically says Watson is the fourth best QB in the league after Mahomes, Wilson and Rodgers and anyone else would trade. He gives a long reason why the Chargers would forgo Herbert. But then the Twitter posts highlight the Allen comparison - because they know it will get clicks and reactions.

[SCBills]

11 hours ago, mannc said:

Seems highly unlikely that team would regress with Watson, no matter how much draft capital they gave up.  They have two firsts and two seconds this year and a full draft next year, and of course they are already a borderline playoff team.  I don’t know how they regress by adding a top 4 quarterback to the mix.  In fact, they would be downright scary. Every Bills fan should hope this doesn’t happen.

They played well above their level this year (imo).   They were not as good as their record.   I could absolutely see a regression.  

[CincyBillsFan]

11 hours ago, mannc said:

Seems highly unlikely that team would regress with Watson, no matter how much draft capital they gave up.  They have two firsts and two seconds this year and a full draft next year, and of course they are already a borderline playoff team.  I don’t know how they regress by adding a top 4 quarterback to the mix.  In fact, they would be downright scary. Every Bills fan should hope this doesn’t happen.

 

I can see Miami regressing with Watson at QB.

 

First, to get Watson they'll have to give up most if not all of their first & second round picks this year.

 

Second, the Dolphins won a lot of games because the ball bounced right for them. If they get only half the TO's next year they got this year they'll be hard pressed to win 10 games with Watson at QB.

 

IMO there was nothing scary about that Miami team the Bills beat 56 - 28 in the last game. The Dolphins win that game and they're in the playoffs.  The Bills sat a number of key players for the game and sat the rest in the 2nd half. What that game showed was that Miami is not as close as people think.  They have a lot of work to do on that roster.  The type of work that benefits from having a QB on a rookie contract.

 

 

 

 

[SCBills]

48 minutes ago, bills6969 said:

 

this guy is a total ass-clown.   I’d give a slight edge to Allen because he 1) is younger and has more upside,  2) has a better arm.  The only valid argument for trading Allen for Watson is that Watson already has signed his big contract (32m aav),  and will probably be cheaper than Allen’s. Needless to say these guys are in the same class, so it would not be a “no-brainer” as this doofus suggests.  He’s just trying to drive his personal agenda of hate against Josh Allen I guess.

Watson might be a safer bet.. He’s played at a high level for multiple years, but Nick Wright is trolling.  No GM is trading Allen straight up for Watson, let alone his prickish assertion of adding picks.  Allen has a much higher ceiling (higher than anyone in the league).  If Allen plays well again next year, not even clowns like Wright or Skip can make these arguments anymore.  

[UKBillFan]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Watson might be a safer bet.. He’s played at a high level for multiple years, but Nick Wright is trolling.  No GM is trading Allen straight up for Watson, let alone his prickish assertion of adding picks.  Allen has a much higher ceiling (higher than anyone in the league).  If Allen plays well again next year, not even clowns like Wright or Skip can make these arguments anymore.  

Josh has got a higher ceiling that Watson but perhaps a lower floor.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 hours ago, mannc said:

Seems highly unlikely that team would regress with Watson, no matter how much draft capital they gave up.  They have two firsts and two seconds this year and a full draft next year, and of course they are already a borderline playoff team.  I don’t know how they regress by adding a top 4 quarterback to the mix.  In fact, they would be downright scary. Every Bills fan should hope this doesn’t happen.

 

On the plus side our D-line can count on getting a lot more sacks if Watson goes to Miami. Would be a good year to put in incentives for going over 8 or 10 sacks if Watson is traded to the AFC East. You'd have a sack prone Watson and probably a couple rookie QB's in the division.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

44 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Rubbing what in?  Watson guided his team to 4-12.  Josh took his to the AFCCG.

It's called trolling. He's trolling Bills fans. You're taking the bait. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It's called trolling. He's trolling Bills fans. You're taking the bait. 

I’m not taking any bait. I’m not following him or watching him. I’m just reacting to his stupidity. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

27 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Listening to the clip itself he basically says Watson is the fourth best QB in the league after Mahomes, Wilson and Rodgers and anyone else would trade. He gives a long reason why the Chargers would forgo Herbert. But then the Twitter posts highlight the Allen comparison - because they know it will get clicks and reactions.

 

I think Watson is solidly in the top 5. As is Allen. The order in which you put these guys is kind of meaningless. I do think it is clear though, Allen very well could have the highest ceiling of them all. Only Mahomes ceiling might be higher. Watson is a good player but he is not without his own faults. Guy takes a ton of sacks and always has. Every single year of his career. I'm sure it is a big reason why his 12th ranked QBR is much lower than his 2nd ranked 112 passer rating.

 

Only year Allen had a sack percentage over 8% was his rookie year. Then down to 7% his second year and cut in half to 4% this last year. Watson has been over 8% all four years he has played and that includes one year over 10%.

[smuvtalker]

On 1/28/2021 at 9:11 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I can not disagree with this assessment.

 

You have to hand it to John Harbaugh for doing a hell of a sales pitch to get a job for a guy (his pass game coordinator) that a quality assessment of their passing game might have suggested they should move on from anyway.

 

I thought Miami played Houston for suckers in the Tunsil trade as did Arizona.

 

If Houston keeps this up by tamely acceding to Watson's trade requests IMO it will be proof their ownership hasn't learned anything.

This 100%.

 

Count me in the minority, and I haven't read all 23 pages of this thread so I don't know how in depth this has been discussed.  But I don't think the Texans should give in to his trade demands.  I'll admit I'm a bit old fashioned, but in my opinion, you play the damn contract you agreed to.  The guy signed a 4 year contract!  Are the Texans a dumpster fire?  Absolutely.  And yes, they got rid of his favorite WR(who I can understand why just a little bit better now), but where I come from you honor the contract YOU SIGNED.  I could see if he wasn't being paid a fair amount, and maybe was in the final year or something like that, but that's hardly the case here, he's being paid quite handsomely.  And his argument that he's ticked because he wasn't consulted about the team's decision on GM?? Uhh, excuse me, when did Deshaun become a part of executive management? And on top of that, did he expect that when he signed that 4 year contract that he was signing up for 4 years of unparalleled excellence, 13 win seasons, and perhaps two Lombardi trophies?  Teams have bad years...but you suck it up, you make the best of the situation, you work with what you have, and you try to make those around you better. You don't jump ship ESPECIALLY when you agreed to remain on that ship no matter what.

 

I think that if ownership gives in to his demands, they're only opening up a pandora's box for every other superstar athlete who's unhappy with his current situation.....

 

Just my two cents y'all.  That's it.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, bills6969 said:

 

this guy is a total ass-clown.   I’d give a slight edge to Allen because he 1) is younger and has more upside,  2) has a better arm.  The only valid argument for trading Allen for Watson is that Watson already has signed his big contract (32m aav),  and will probably be cheaper than Allen’s. Needless to say these guys are in the same class, so it would not be a “no-brainer” as this doofus suggests.  He’s just trying to drive his personal agenda of hate against Josh Allen I guess.

No.  He’s just using Bills fans to drive his mentions, clicks and audience 

 

Really can’t believe bills fans continue to pay attention and link anything and everything he does. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, bills6969 said:

 

this guy is a total ass-clown.   I’d give a slight edge to Allen because he 1) is younger and has more upside,  2) has a better arm.  The only valid argument for trading Allen for Watson is that Watson already has signed his big contract (32m aav),  and will probably be cheaper than Allen’s. Needless to say these guys are in the same class, so it would not be a “no-brainer” as this doofus suggests.  He’s just trying to drive his personal agenda of hate against Josh Allen I guess.

 

Why is anyone paying attention to a ketchup-mugged Loser?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

31 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Josh has got a higher ceiling that Watson but perhaps a lower floor.

 

He's already outplayed that floor.

[mannc]

29 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I think Watson is solidly in the top 5. As is Allen. The order in which you put these guys is kind of meaningless. I do think it is clear though, Allen very well could have the highest ceiling of them all. Only Mahomes ceiling might be higher. Watson is a good player but he is not without his own faults. Guy takes a ton of sacks and always has. Every single year of his career. I'm sure it is a big reason why his 12th ranked QBR is much lower than his 2nd ranked 112 passer rating.

 

Only year Allen had a sack percentage over 8% was his rookie year. Then down to 7% his second year and cut in half to 4% this last year. Watson has been over 8% all four years he has played and that includes one year over 10%.

My only concern about Watson is that his frame is relatively slight.  With his propensity to run and to take sacks, you have to worry about how his body will hold up over a long career.

[Nextmanup]

John Clayton said the other day on GR-55 that he thinks Watson will remain in Houston.

I.E., the organization will find a way to patch things up and keep him.

The owner wants to keep him there, and Watson is not the guy who controls his own movement....the organization is....and so he is expected to remain there, at least according to Clayton.

 

 

1 hour ago, mannc said:

My only concern about Watson is that his frame is relatively slight.  With his propensity to run and to take sacks, you have to worry about how his body will hold up over a long career.

This is often brought up by fans, but do you have any data to support the assertion that a "running QB" is injured more than a stationery QB?

 

What if your QB is injured b/c his own OL steps on his ankle coming out of the snap?

 

What if he breaks a finger on the follow-through while passing from the pocket?

Do those injuries count?

 

 

[mannc]

25 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

John Clayton said the other day on GR-55 that he thinks Watson will remain in Houston.

I.E., the organization will find a way to patch things up and keep him.

The owner wants to keep him there, and Watson is not the guy who controls his own movement....the organization is....and so he is expected to remain there, at least according to Clayton.

 

 

This is often brought up by fans, but do you have any data to support the assertion that a "running QB" is injured more than a stationery QB?

 

What if your QB is injured b/c his own OL steps on his ankle coming out of the snap?

 

What if he breaks a finger on the follow-through while passing from the pocket?

Do those injuries count?

 

 

No, but it’s the way Watson runs that I think exposes him to injury.  Guys like Russell Wilson seem to run all the time but never take hits.  Watson is more reckless (courageous?) in the way he runs—not unlike Josh Allen—and of course the sacks expose him to injury as well. He’s already torn his ACL during his time with the Texans.

[Billzgobowlin]

On 1/28/2021 at 1:21 PM, eball said:

 

Don't be a dick.  You know that name is dead.  It's not "cute" to be all "I'm not PC"...

I grew up in the DC area.  It was a slip up from calling them by that name all my life.  BTW you should stay away from personal attacks.

[eball]

1 minute ago, Billzgobowlin said:

I grew up in the DC area.  It was a slip up from calling them by that name all my life.  BTW you should stay away from personal attacks.

 

True, I should.  I just figured that after an entire season and with all of the publicity around this issue people would know better than to type that out on a message board, which is much different than “letting it slip” in conversation.  Please accept my apology.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 hours ago, SCBills said:

Watson might be a safer bet.. He’s played at a high level for multiple years, but Nick Wright is trolling.  No GM is trading Allen straight up for Watson, let alone his prickish assertion of adding picks.  Allen has a much higher ceiling (higher than anyone in the league).  If Allen plays well again next year, not even clowns like Wright or Skip can make these arguments anymore.  

 

 

I'm not down with "adorable" but the rent-free part is correct.  Of course, it's because Wright's head is scheming "how can I get more publicity here?  I KNOW!"

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Doc]

So...he's still not going to be traded?

[Jester]

I saw this on a yahoo! article?  Not sure how accurate it is but that's a STEEP price.  2 1sts, 2 2nds, and 2 defensive starters?  That's gotta be a joke, right?

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/texans-reportedly-have-hefty-price-in-mind-to-start-deshaun-watson-trade-talks-014418649.html

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Jester said:

I saw this on a yahoo! article?  Not sure how accurate it is but that's a STEEP price.  2 1sts, 2 2nds, and 2 defensive starters?  That's gotta be a joke, right?

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/texans-reportedly-have-hefty-price-in-mind-to-start-deshaun-watson-trade-talks-014418649.html

 

Not surprised. Texans will have a ridiculous price so they can go back to Watson and say "we tried, but no one could get a deal done".

[Rc2catch]

There is no package that doesn’t involve an elite quarterback being included that is worth while for Houston. 
Quarterback is so hard to hit on you don’t trade an elite one away at a young age. 
I have said all along Houston should call his bluff and see if he’ll take the fines and miss games. 
Had he not just signed the extension I would agree with his demands to get out. We’re not talking a franchise tag here though. I would call his bluff. He’s not forfeiting all that money to sit home 

[DCOrange]

15 minutes ago, Jester said:

I saw this on a yahoo! article?  Not sure how accurate it is but that's a STEEP price.  2 1sts, 2 2nds, and 2 defensive starters?  That's gotta be a joke, right?

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/texans-reportedly-have-hefty-price-in-mind-to-start-deshaun-watson-trade-talks-014418649.html

Depending on the quality of the picks and the starters, that feels light. I think most teams would be all over that. If for example, for the Jets, that means #2 pick, a future 1st, 2 future 2nds, Tarell Basham, and Folorunso Fatukasi, they'd probably say yes in a heartbeat. If the defensive players are Quinnen Williams and Marcus Maye instead, maybe not.

 

Or if it's a team like Washington offering #19 and a future 1st, the 2nds, one of their DTs, and one other defensive player (obviously not Chase Young), I think they'd do it a heartbeat and be thankful Houston came down from the original reported asking price.

Edited February 1, 2021 by DCOrange

[UKBillFan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

If allowed? Is Watson going to try and use Covid-19 as an excuse to get out of being fined?

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

If allowed? Is Watson going to try and use Covid-19 as an excuse to get out of being fined?

No, that guy made it up 

[whatdrought]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

The reality is that both sides need to be very careful as a trade is just as unlikely as it is likely. People pretend players have a ton of leverage, but teams can sit on the contract and dial up the fines if players push too hard. It’s essentially a political negotiation. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by whatdrought

[UKBillFan]

20 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

No, that guy made it up 

Thanks. Of course it would have helped if I’d read the entire tweet. ☺️

[Mr. WEO]

On 1/30/2021 at 11:54 AM, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

On the plus side our D-line can count on getting a lot more sacks if Watson goes to Miami. Would be a good year to put in incentives for going over 8 or 10 sacks if Watson is traded to the AFC East. You'd have a sack prone Watson and probably a couple rookie QB's in the division.

 

 

He was "sack prone" because his O-line sucked....they gave up 48 sacks compared to 32 for Miami.

 

What was your point again?

[Bing Bong]

On 1/28/2021 at 9:08 AM, Coach Tuesday said:

Houston's dysfunctional ownership continues to screw up the league, and it disproportionately affects Buffalo.  To recap:

 

1)  Trades 2 #1st to Miami for Tunsil, giving the Dolphins a top-five pick; Tunsil wasn't extended in advance, giving players in a similar position additional negotiating leverage.

 

2) Trades Hopkins for peanuts; Hopkins single-handedly beats Buffalo in 2020

 

3) Hires David Culley instead of Leslie Frazier, giving extra draft capital to the best GM in football

 

4) Likely trades a top-five QB in his prime to the AFC East

5) Jack Easterbee

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/12/10/ex-chaplain-jack-easterby-houston-texans-chaos-after-power-struggle-daily-cover