Deshaun Watson officially requests trade from Houston

[Punching Bag]

13 minutes ago, Rico said:

No need to magnify anything.

 

Then again, I am 99% pro-management anti-union, and this Deshaun Watson case sure as hell does not fit into the 1%. Let him stay home.

 

I am only anti-union for I feel it is a terrible union.  They negotiate and agree to contract and then try to get in court which that cannot get on negotiations table.  They also protect players who break rules agreed to including players who deliberately injury other players.

[BillsShredder83]

On 1/30/2021 at 11:43 AM, UKBillFan said:

Josh has got a higher ceiling that Watson but perhaps a lower floor.

There's not a team I see Josh going 4-12 on. Maybe this analogy worked for Josh coming out of the draft, but no, not after 3 years of seeing Josh.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, BTB said:

If the Houston owner really did promise Watson that he would have some say into the GM hiring, then he is a complete idiot, and his team deserves to be as dysfunctional as can be.

 

I'm not sure what is worse, that he made the promise, or reneged on it?  What a clown show! 😂

 

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I highly doubt McNair unsolicitedly offered Watson input into the GM hire.  Which means Watson and/or his agent(s) first asked (when they never should have).  But once they did and McNair never had any intention of doing it, he was stuck.  Either he says "no" and pisses Watson off right then and there, or he says "sure, whatever you want." hires Caserio and then pissed off Watson.  And since he really wanted Caserio, it's a "it's better to ask forgiveness than permission" situation.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Doc

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see how anyone can definitively say it is all the lines fault or even divvy out some sort of percentage of blame. I'm guessing the truth is somewhere closer to the middle. 

 

I think Josh took a lot of sacks his first two years because 1. the line and skill players around him were not as good and 2. he became a better QB. better at recognizing pressure, avoiding pressure etc.

 

Also, in the case of Mahomes and Allen, I think they bail out of the pocket a lot more. Rolling right or left or back pedaling. End result is avoiding more sacks. When I watch Wilson and Watson, they don't do this as often is my impression. They like to hang in the pocket more often. This isn't necessarily a bad thing or a deal breaker. Both QB's are still extremely efficient. But I could see how it leads to more sacks.

 

 

Yeah when you say you watch Wilson and then claim he doesn't bail out off the pocket as much, then I discount whatever follows.  Wilson is one of the best at scrambling out of the pocket, because he has had to do it for most of his career.  His lines have sucked (last season---decent).  He has played under duress most of his career.  To say he hangs in the pocket more than Mahomes or Josh is just wrong.    Watson has averaged 90 carries a season for his 3 years as starter.  Wilson has averaged 90 carries a season for  his entire career.  Mahomes is at about 55.  We can assume relative few of those are planned runs.  This doesn't even include scrambles that don't end in runs.  

 

Watson isn't the statue in the pocket taking the hits that you portray him as.  Anyone who has watched him play knows this.  

[Figster]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

Not a great start to Tua's career. 

You have a team showing buyers remorse and a star player that needs a new home.

 

Myself personally, If I'm Tua I ask to be involved in the trade that sends me to Houston. In exchange for the 2 Defensive starters the Texans are seeking. Good QB + two 1st + 2nds along with the picks the Texans already have can make things better in a hurry If done right. Team Tua up with Najee Harris. See If Tua can get back to where he was before the injury.

 

(From a win loss stand point Tua's first 4 starts had him in very select company If I remember correctly.)

Edited February 3, 2021 by Figster

[Southern_Bills]

What's his end game? He's under contract for 3 more years. Sit for 3 years, be 28 years old and 3 years removed from football?

 

I would play hardball right back, I'm not sure he has the leverage he thinks he does. If I'm the Texans the only way I trade him is if he waives the trade clause so I can at least get the best deal. 

[Figster]

2 hours ago, Southern_Bills said:

What's his end game? He's under contract for 3 more years. Sit for 3 years, be 28 years old and 3 years removed from football?

 

I would play hardball right back, I'm not sure he has the leverage he thinks he does. If I'm the Texans the only way I trade him is if he waives the trade clause so I can at least get the best deal. 

I think Houston in all likelihood has a trade partner in Miami that satisfies all concerned and setting a value on the trade is what remains before real negotiations can take place. Pure speculation on my part.

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, Figster said:

(From a win loss stand point Tua's first 4 starts had him in very select company If I remember correctly.)

 

Yes very few starting QBs had so many defense and special terms scores.  Nathan P5t5rson may have been able to win that many games on that team.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Yeah when you say you watch Wilson and then claim he doesn't bail out off the pocket as much, then I discount whatever follows.  Wilson is one of the best at scrambling out of the pocket, because he has had to do it for most of his career.  His lines have sucked (last season---decent).  He has played under duress most of his career.  To say he hangs in the pocket more than Mahomes or Josh is just wrong.    Watson has averaged 90 carries a season for his 3 years as starter.  Wilson has averaged 90 carries a season for  his entire career.  Mahomes is at about 55.  We can assume relative few of those are planned runs.  This doesn't even include scrambles that don't end in runs.  

 

Watson isn't the statue in the pocket taking the hits that you portray him as.  Anyone who has watched him play knows this.  

 

Bills O-line wasn't that good Josh's first two years. He had a sack rate around 8 percent for those first two years. Was it all the lines fault? Josh's fault? Or somewhere in between? 

 

All I am saying is the same thing is true of pretty much every QB. At the end of the day the #'s are what they are and they show that Watson has been sacked at a high rate for his entire career. Same thing with Wilson. His entire career a sack rate greater than 7%. Had he had bad lines at times? I'm sure he has. Has the line been totally at fault for his entire career? No. 

 

Carries per game or season? Not sure how that is totally relevant. Vast majority of the time Allen rolled out of the pocket this year he threw the ball. With great success often. Same thing for Mahomes. And by now way am I saying Watson and Wilson are statues in the pocket. I am staying they stay in the pocket more than Allen or Mahomes but probably less than league average. And when they are in the pocket under pressure they move around a lot. They are like Houdini in the pocket. Sometimes they avoid the sack, sometimes they don't. 

 

Bottom-line, eventually you are what your stats say you are until they change. 

[Mr. WEO]

38 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Bills O-line wasn't that good Josh's first two years. He had a sack rate around 8 percent for those first two years. Was it all the lines fault? Josh's fault? Or somewhere in between? 

 

All I am saying is the same thing is true of pretty much every QB. At the end of the day the #'s are what they are and they show that Watson has been sacked at a high rate for his entire career. Same thing with Wilson. His entire career a sack rate greater than 7%. Had he had bad lines at times? I'm sure he has. Has the line been totally at fault for his entire career? No. 

 

Carries per game or season? Not sure how that is totally relevant. Vast majority of the time Allen rolled out of the pocket this year he threw the ball. With great success often. Same thing for Mahomes. And by now way am I saying Watson and Wilson are statues in the pocket. I am staying they stay in the pocket more than Allen or Mahomes but probably less than league average. And when they are in the pocket under pressure they move around a lot. They are like Houdini in the pocket. Sometimes they avoid the sack, sometimes they don't. 

 

Bottom-line, eventually you are what your stats say you are until they change. 

 

 

Not true.  Wilson's lines have been bad for most of his career.  He takes off all the time--in fact his may be the best scrambling QB over the last 5 years.  This is all well known.

[NewEra]

Texans still sticking to their guns so far.  Wonder how long they can hold out.  If Watson signed the contract and then they traded Hopkins, I can see him having a leg to stand on.  He signed the extension knowing what he was dealing with. His fault imo.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30853055/sources-houston-texans-insist-other-teams-trade-deshaun-watson%3fplatform=amp

 

 

i think they should hold out, but I think their choice in HC could be the worst HC hire in history, so Watson may just sit out forever.  Dude is already set for life if he so chooses.  Tough game of chicken to play.  Only thing I care about is keeping him out of the AFCE and preferably into to the NFC

[TheFunPolice]

Egos will cost them both Watson and a lot of the return they could get.

 

Eventually, he will be traded if he holds out. But, other teams will know Houston has to trade him then, so the return will be less.

 

Just like Carson Palmer. Bengals owner declared he would play for Cincy or nobody. So Palmer retired and a few months later he was traded for less than the Bengals could have gotten the first time around.

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Egos will cost them both Watson and a lot of the return they could get.

 

Eventually, he will be traded if he holds out. But, other teams will know Houston has to trade him then, so the return will be less.

 

Just like Carson Palmer. Bengals owner declared he would play for Cincy or nobody. So Palmer retired and a few months later he was traded for less than the Bengals could have gotten the first time around.

 

They won't lose out on return.  Teams will be falling all over themselves to get him if/when they decide to trade him.  Look at Stafford and Wentz.

 

Meanwhile the Texans probably wouldn't be better than a 4 win team with Watson for the next few years.  If he sits out, they probably get a top-3 pick again, get to keep it this time, and recoup a lot of money they paid Watson.  If he still decides he's going to sit-out 2022, then maybe consider trading him.  Or let him sit again, get more money back and re-evaluate in 2023.

[bills6969]

Houston will trade him eventually. They’re just trying to garner the best offer.  Why accept the first offer? No rush on their end.    

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Egos will cost them both Watson and a lot of the return they could get.

 

Eventually, he will be traded if he holds out. But, other teams will know Houston has to trade him then, so the return will be less.

 

Just like Carson Palmer. Bengals owner declared he would play for Cincy or nobody. So Palmer retired and a few months later he was traded for less than the Bengals could have gotten the first time around.

I don’t think the return will dip too much.  They have the rights to an elite QB under contract through 2025 in the prime of his career.  No team has every traded a QB as good as he is.  Ever.  He price will always be sky high.  His value may actually go up as they realize that their current QBs aren’t Deshaun Watson and are a waste of time. 

Just now, bills6969 said:

Houston will trade him eventually. They’re just trying to garner the best offer.  Why accept the first offer? No rush on their end.    

Teams are saying that they aren’t even taking offers. They aren’t trying to drive the price up.  They’re trying to do everything they can to keep him. 

[Process]

How much money does Watson lose out on if he just sits out the whole year? Im sure he got a bunch guaranteed/up front but can't imagine him giving up a year's salary plus fines over a grudge. 

 

I think the Texans have a lot of leverage here. 

 

He signed after the Tunsil and Hopkins trades right? If so he has no one to blame but himself.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 2/2/2021 at 1:17 PM, Big Blitz said:

He gone....

 

 

 

 

Aside from the few teams that may have both the desperate need and the resources to trade for him I think the rest of the owners gotta see a potential Watson force-out of Houston as a VERY BAD turn of events for their system.

 

It's a slippery slope, for sure.    If you can make a guy the richest at his position and he can be ecstatic then just 5 months later with probably 12-15 years left in his career he's determined the situation is forever untenable.......then all bets are off.

 

Watson changing teams this soon in his career would be as early or earlier in the prime of a true superstar that a player has ever changed teams in any of the 4 major US sports. 

 

Unlike basketball and baseball the NFL has been able to contour the rules of their sport so that only 1 position.......1/22nd of the starting lineup........is really necessary.     Works out for the QB's and the league.   They only have to funnel top dollar into one player and the league benefits by having human focal points,  "faces" of the league,  which was always tougher than it was in other sports where players faces were always visible and therefore more recognizable.

 

Stability at that position is essential..........and whether the QB's realize it or not........they are expected to comply with the league's framework in return for being placed on a pedestal.  

 

IMO the Texans would probably receive a lot of support from the league to NOT trade Watson.    It would be foolish on many levels for them to trade him.    The only chance at getting value is a trade that would so hamper the ability of the receiving team to re-stock their roster over the next 5 years that THAT would also be bad for the league as well.     

 

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[Rico]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Aside from the few teams that may have both the desperate need and the resources to trade for him I think the rest of the owners gotta see a potential Watson force-out of Houston as a VERY BAD turn of events for their system.

 

It's a slippery slope, for sure.    If you can make a guy the richest at his position and he can be ecstatic then just 5 months later with probably 12-15 years left in his career he's determined the situation is forever untenable.......then all bets are off.

 

Watson changing teams this soon in his career would be as early or earlier in the prime of a true superstar that a player has ever changed teams in any of the 4 major US sports. 

 

Unlike basketball and baseball the NFL has been able to contour the rules of their sport so that only 1 position.......1/22nd of the starting lineup........is really necessary.     Works out for the QB's and the league.   They only have to funnel top dollar into one player and the league benefits by having human focal points,  "faces" of the league,  which was always tougher than it was in other sports where players faces were always visible and therefore more recognizable.

 

Stability at that position is essential..........and whether the QB's realize it or not........they are expected to comply with the league's framework in return for being placed on a pedestal.  

 

IMO the Texans would probably receive a lot of support from the league to NOT trade Watson.    It would be foolish on many levels for them to trade him.    The only chance at getting value is a trade that would so hamper the ability of the receiving team to re-stock their roster over the next 5 years that THAT would also be bad for the league as well.     

 

 

Nice post, and I can see this 'league support" happening. Kaep will not be pleased.

[Big Blitz]

Watson essentially has said "I hate the owner and the GM hire."

 

There is no repairing that.  

 

He's taken his last snap for this team.  

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Watson essentially has said "I hate the owner and the GM hire."

 

There is no repairing that.  

 

He's taken his last snap for this team.  

 

He has actually said I hate McNair and Easterby and the HC hire wasn't changing my mind whoever you hired.

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Texans still sticking to their guns so far.  Wonder how long they can hold out.  If Watson signed the contract and then they traded Hopkins, I can see him having a leg to stand on.  He signed the extension knowing what he was dealing with. His fault imo.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30853055/sources-houston-texans-insist-other-teams-trade-deshaun-watson%3fplatform=amp

 

 

i think they should hold out, but I think their choice in HC could be the worst HC hire in history, so Watson may just sit out forever.  Dude is already set for life if he so chooses.  Tough game of chicken to play.  Only thing I care about is keeping him out of the AFCE and preferably into to the NFC

they may hold out but damn if Cal McNair and Co have boned this situation up real good. 

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

they may hold out but damn if Cal McNair and Co have boned this situation up real good. 

 

 

Did they tho?

 

Have we heard from Watson himself as he holds the organization and fans hostage, that he was promised a legit say in the GM hire?

 

Has he said anything publicly about it?

 

Seems to me that's what a professional would do especially since you think that the people you work for and just signed with are not.

[JoPoy88]

49 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Did they tho?

 

Have we heard from Watson himself as he holds the organization and fans hostage, that he was promised a legit say in the GM hire?

 

Has he said anything publicly about it?

 

Seems to me that's what a professional would do especially since you think that the people you work for and just signed with are not.

When the “people you work for” are crazy jesus freaks and idiots I say anything is in bounds and yes Watson has put it out there, maybe indirectly, that he’s done with those morons and I don’t blame him one bit

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Meh, yawn

 

 

[GunnerBill]

47 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

When the “people you work for” are crazy jesus freaks and idiots I say anything is in bounds and yes Watson has put it out there, maybe indirectly, that he’s done with those morons and I don’t blame him one bit

 

I agree, and don't think he has any duty to them or to speak out publicly. I do think he should be adult enough to explain to Caserio and Culley where he is at though. It isn't their fault. Not saying he should be conciliatory in those conversations but he should take their calls and just be completely honest about how he has got to this point and what (or where) his preference now lies.  

[JoPoy88]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree, and don't think he has any duty to them or to speak out publicly. I do think he should be adult enough to explain to Caserio and Culley where he is at though. It isn't their fault. Not saying he should be conciliatory in those conversations but he should take their calls and just be completely honest about how he has got to this point and what (or where) his preference now lies.  

absolutely. Watson should relate to these guys (politely) that this just ain’t it for him. After all, independent of Caserio and Culley it was Mcnair and Easterby that ruined that relationship.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

When the “people you work for” are crazy jesus freaks and idiots I say anything is in bounds and yes Watson has put it out there, maybe indirectly, that he’s done with those morons and I don’t blame him one bit

 

That's a very dumb, irrelevant analogy.  He's not some $50K per year non-contractually obligated office schlub.   To whom much is given, much is expected.

 

I mean....were they not "jesus freaks" when he signed his contract that called for a "no trade" clause 5 months ago?    It's not like Houston didn't have options.   They could have Dak Prescotted him.  

 

I don't begrudge him asking for a trade but trying to force his way out of a team that just gave his once homeless family generational wealth when it didn't have to....that attitude sure ain't gratitude.

 

There is a line between being in an unfortunate situation and an untenable one.   It was unfortunate when he signed the contract.......if it was tenable then it's tenable now.

 

 If he wants to go.......START by dropping the no trade clause.......let Houston trade him for 5 #1 picks and a bunch of other picks.   Otherwise......he should go down to the corner store and get a bag of ***** and start munching while he sits out 2020.

[JoPoy88]

22 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

That's a very dumb, irrelevant analogy.  He's not some $50K per year non-contractually obligated office schlub.   To whom much is given, much is expected.

 

I mean....were they not "jesus freaks" when he signed his contract that called for a "no trade" clause 5 months ago?    It's not like Houston didn't have options.   They could have Dak Prescotted him.  

 

I don't begrudge him asking for a trade but trying to force his way out of a team that just gave his once homeless family generational wealth when it didn't have to....that attitude sure ain't gratitude.

 

There is a line between being in an unfortunate situation and an untenable one.   It was unfortunate when he signed the contract.......if it was tenable then it's tenable now.

 

 If he wants to go.......START by dropping the no trade clause.......let Houston trade him for 5 #1 picks and a bunch of other picks.   Otherwise......he should go down to the corner store and get a bag of ***** and start munching while he sits out 2020.

well i didn’t make an analogy so who’s the dumb one here? 🤔

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree, and don't think he has any duty to them 

 

The enormous, early-gifted contract says otherwise.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The enormous, early-gifted contract says otherwise.

 

If he doesn't turn up they don't have to pay him. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

That's a very dumb, irrelevant analogy.  He's not some $50K per year non-contractually obligated office schlub.   To whom much is given, much is expected.

 

I mean....were they not "jesus freaks" when he signed his contract that called for a "no trade" clause 5 months ago?    It's not like Houston didn't have options.   They could have Dak Prescotted him.  

 

I don't begrudge him asking for a trade but trying to force his way out of a team that just gave his once homeless family generational wealth when it didn't have to....that attitude sure ain't gratitude.

 

There is a line between being in an unfortunate situation and an untenable one.   It was unfortunate when he signed the contract.......if it was tenable then it's tenable now.

 

 If he wants to go.......START by dropping the no trade clause.......let Houston trade him for 5 #1 picks and a bunch of other picks.   Otherwise......he should go down to the corner store and get a bag of ***** and start munching while he sits out 2020.

Easterby was hired in early 2020, and Watson signed the extension 7 months later (in a covid situation). I think it’s fair to assume that he didn’t realize that he was going to be working under a cultish short-haired friend of Jesus driving a chartreuse microbus. I give Watson a hard pass on this one. Easterby and McNair suck and are toxic. To quote Janis Joplin, get out while you can.

[BADOLBILZ]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If he doesn't turn up they don't have to pay him. 

 

 

They already paid him a $27M bonus so there was an understanding that his contract was more than just a weekly pay check, GB.   He doesn't have to show up.   They don't have to pay him.   They can go after the bonus while he eats said bag of ***** and gives away a season of his career.   Whatever.   I'd say "hopefully" it doesn't come to that.........but honestly I hope all parties involved are sufficiently harmed to the benefit of the Bills.    It would be to the benefit of the small market Bills for this to go poorly for him, IMO.   

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They already paid him a $27M bonus so there was an understanding that his contract was more than just a weekly pay check, GB.   He doesn't have to show up.   They don't have to pay him.   They can go after the bonus while he eats said bag of ***** and gives away a season of his career.   Whatever.   I'd say "hopefully" it doesn't come to that.........but honestly I hope all parties involved are sufficiently harmed to the benefit of the Bills.    It would be to the benefit of the small market Bills for this to go poorly for him, IMO.   

 

For sure. But clearly there has been a complete breakdown of trust at this point. Houston has two choices now IMO. Let him sit out or trade him. I honestly think it has gone past the point where the two can come back together. That is where I think it is incumbent upon Watson to talk to the GM and to the coach. 

 

I get the point about there being teams in the league especially smaller markets who will want Houston to hold out but I think this is the way things are heading.

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

For sure. But clearly there has been a complete breakdown of trust at this point. Houston has two choices now IMO. Let him sit out or trade him. I honestly think it has gone past the point where the two can come back together. That is where I think it is incumbent upon Watson to talk to the GM and to the coach. 

 

I get the point about there being teams in the league especially smaller markets who will want Houston to hold out but I think this is the way things are heading.

 

 

I think there is a bit too much assumption on the part of people that Watson is making these decisions simply because the ownership/upper management are total freaks.    He reportedly was very influenced by Houston Rockets NBA star James Harden recently forcing his way out of Houston and onto a Brooklyn Nets team so he could play for a title with his buddies.    The NBA model can't work in football.  Remove the competitive balance from football and the entire system comes down like a house of cards.   That's not an exaggeration.  The NFL can't replicate their game experience 100-200 times per year like the NBA and MLB so the perception that the playing field is relatively even is critical.   

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I think there is a bit too much assumption on the part of people that Watson is making these decisions simply because the ownership/upper management are total freaks.    

 

I disagree with this. I genuinely do believe it is about his relationship with those two individuals having broken down to the point where it is irreconcilable.

[GoBills!]

I think Washington is a Solid option, they have a solid D, #1 WR a good TE and a great running game when healthy. 

[Big Turk]

Apparently Houston isn't even taking the calls from other teams calling about Watson and telling them they aren't trading him

 

[Coach Tuesday]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Apparently Houston isn't even taking the calls from other teams calling about Watson and telling them they aren't trading him

 

That’s the right approach.  They CANNOT trade him.  It would be unforgivable, especially for an organization that has made so many critical mistakes.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

18 hours ago, Process said:

How much money does Watson lose out on if he just sits out the whole year? Im sure he got a bunch guaranteed/up front but can't imagine him giving up a year's salary plus fines over a grudge. 

 

I think the Texans have a lot of leverage here. 

 

He signed after the Tunsil and Hopkins trades right? If so he has no one to blame but himself.

 

I think it is only like $10 million which makes it interesting. His new contract doesn't really kick in till the following year where he would be losing like $30 million.

 

As has been pointed out, Palmer sat out or retired with $80 million in the bank. So far Watson has only netted about half that amount. I don't think money is an issue this year. But next year it could be.

[colin]

i don't doubt the FO situation in houston is awful, but Watson signed the contract.

 

it's tight, but i think it may be better for the league (for fans, we are the only ones who matter) if houston punishes him.  players getting bigger than teams is a bridge too far.