Who's your one pass catcher to add? Draft, Free Agency or Trade.

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Would you happen to know how much of a cap hit (or savings) it would it be if they cut Morse?

If you're looking to save some money, Mario Addison seems like a candidate. He has a $10 million cap hit if he stays and a $2 million hit if he's cut. He's just not that good and seems easily replaceable. I mean, he's OK, but he's the ultimate DE JAG. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/mario-addison-8871/

[Steve O]

Just wondering if anyone else's eyes played tricks on them and read the title as punt catcher instead of pass catcher at first glance?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

If you're looking to save some money, Mario Addison seems like a candidate. He has a $10 million cap hit if he stays and a $2 million hit if he's cut. He's just not that good and seems easily replaceable. I mean, he's OK, but he's the ultimate DE JAG. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/mario-addison-8871/

 

Yeah. That seems like a no brainer right there. 

 

I'm not sure about Ertz. I'm sure he'll be available if we want him via trade. But he's already getting injuries and on the wrong side of 30. Same age as Kelce but Kelce is still healthy and dominating. It's just so hard to find elite TE's. 

[Real McClappy]

14 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Ewww no

Build from the draft it is then. 

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Tight end is tough - there are no good free agents and its a position with a steep learning curve.  Even 1st rounders tend to bloom a bit late.  

I know this sounds crazy but I'd stick with Knox. He definitely has the physical talent and it's a hard position to learn. Next year is year four and hopefully a breakout season. It seems like a better bet than a draft pick or FA pickup.

[Chuck Wagon]

Etienne

 

Diggs-Beasley-Davis-Knox is enough with the true weapon out of the backfield.  Etienne as our "Thurman - Faulk" takes this offense to a different place.

[OrtonHearsaWho]

I already suggested this in a different topic but for me it's Kyle Pitts.  If he falls to the middle of the first round, you make a move to get him...I just don't think he makes it to the middle of the first.

[cgg716]

11 minutes ago, SCBills said:

ENOUGH with the slightly above average role players.  

 

Cut guys like Jefferson, Butler, Addison, Brown, Morse etc.. 

 

Consolidate that money into 2 actual playmakers.  Then fill in rotation through the draft.  

 

KC's Defense has the 3 best defenders in the game last night... Mathieu, Jones and Clark.  They make it work with everyone else.  We have a bunch of good rotation guys, an ongoing lottery ticket at MLB, White and Poyer... Cool.... That led to a middle of the pack defense that got smoked by KC.  

 

The OP is onto something... Teams win with playmakers.  It wouldn't be the worst idea to overhaul the roster and consolidate cap space into another WR and/or EDGE... even if they're overpays (which an EDGE would be, because Dupree, Judon and Ngakoue aren't elite but will be paid as such). 

 

My one choice would be Najee Harris.  Both because he's a realistic draft pick and is a weapon in the pass game. 

 

I think Harris is absolutely the draft pick if he falls there, which he very well might. There are some obvious cuts to be made along with areas of need. The DL intrigues me because I think the return of Star, and the responsibility from opposing OLs he commands can help guys like Oliver and Espensa. We might not be as far off there as we think. I’d still welcome some fresh bodies though. I do believe you can let Milano walk too, I love the player, I only say that because the way to save younger, cheaper, Edmunds may be putting him outside 

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I know this sounds crazy but I'd stick with Knox. He definitely has the physical talent and it's a hard position to learn. Next year is year four and hopefully a breakout season. It seems like a better bet than a draft pick or FA pickup.

 

 

Definitely keep Knox......he's cheap and under contract....... but if they can get a veteran upgrade that would be great.    KC basically gave Allen the TE all game because they know that if the Bills throw to Knox a often.......things eventually go haywire.  He is fast and powerful but he's awkward changing direction and, of course, with his hands.    Perhaps he can smooth out those aspects of his game with a good offseason of work.   Hopefully a significant portion of that time with Allen in CA.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Definitely keep Knox......he's cheap and under contract....... but if they can get a veteran upgrade that would be great.    KC basically gave Allen the TE all game because they know that if the Bills throw to Knox a often.......things eventually go haywire.  He is fast and powerful but he's awkward changing direction and, of course, with his hands.    Perhaps he can smooth out those aspects of his game with a good offseason of work.   Hopefully a significant portion of that time with Allen in CA.

That's exactly my thinking. 

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Allen's new contract money wouldn't kick in for two years. And it would probably be back loaded. If the Chiefs can have Hill, Kelce, Mahomes and Chris Jones I'd like to think we can cut some fat and sign another play maker. At least with Allen we can be seen as a WR/TE destination now.

 

Also Spotracs numbers are for the rock bottom 175 million cap. The cap is more than likely going to be set higher to avoid a "cap crunch" of they will do what the NBA did and leave the cap alone but have the players put 20-30% of their pay into escrow where then at the end of the season the league and the players will divvy up that money depending on the final revenue numbers. So I think the Bills are more than likely going to enter into an offseason where the cap is between 195-205 million which will mean that the Bills will likely enter free agency with between 22-32 million in cap space before any cuts or restructuring. 

[BuffaloRebound]

Knox is a good gadget type player.  Especially down in the red zone. But he’s not a traditional Tight End.  Josh needs a Tight End who can move the chains.  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

28 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I know this sounds crazy but I'd stick with Knox. He definitely has the physical talent and it's a hard position to learn. Next year is year four and hopefully a breakout season. It seems like a better bet than a draft pick or FA pickup.

 

I don't think sticking with Knox is crazy at all. He does still have potential. Plus he's under contract for two more years on a cheap deal. He's definitely not going anywhere.

[dave mcbride]

7 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I don't think sticking with Knox is crazy at all. He does still have potential. Plus he's under contract for two more years on a cheap deal. He's definitely not going anywhere.

I guess what I meant to say is that the Bills might want to view their own guy as a high-upside difference maker in coming years rather than a FA or draft pick. Tight ends take so long to develop and often flame out as pass catchers.

[Boxcar]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I have issues with Knox, but honestly, he played well last night. Perhaps more importantly, he’s very talented physically. I’m a believer in talent and coaching it up over time. Maybe he advances to the next level given his talent.

Idk if I'm just telling myself things to feel better, but I honestly feel like Knox made marked improvements throughout the year. Some of the catches he's capable of making are incredible. I think it seems he gets into trouble with easy catches when he has too much time to think, like he's thinking about avoiding hits or how he's going to run after the catch before securing the ball. In the last part of the season, though, he became Allen's go to for dumping off short passes and succeeded in that area.

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, LEBills said:

Allen Robinson, guys been amazing with Christian Hackenberg, Blake Bortles, Mitch Trubisky and Nick Foles throwing to him.

 

Think how great he would be with Josh, and how much it would give to us when teams try to double Stef going forward. 

A sexy idea indeed, but WR is not a big concern for us.

 

DE is our top priority.

[OrediggerPoke]

2 hours ago, OrediggerPoke said:

Kenny Golladay and Josh Allen once put on a show that finally ended in 3OT at 230 AM MTN/430 AM Eastern. Golladay amassed 200 yards and 3 TD that night.  But Josh Allen was better, and, converted one of the most ridiculous walk off rushing TDs when the entire crowd was screaming at him to throw the ball away when the play broke down.   

 

 

Come to think of it, I still need to watch the first half of this game!

 

The game was scheduled for an 8:30 PM MTN start to accommodate television.  Well a big rainstorm swept through Laramie delaying the game for a few hours.  University administration decided to open up the fieldhouse for the fans to escape the rain.  The university brought all of the beer to the fieldhouse to sell during that rain delay.  Needles to say, by the time the game actually did start, we were all very wasted.  But by the second half, I was sobering up and by the end of the 3OT I was stone sober and screaming for Allen to throw the ball away and let the field goal kicker win the game.  Nope, Allen didn't want to leave anything to chance and figured he would just run around the field and find a way to score.  We made it home just in time to watch the sunrise.  It is #3 for me in top Josh Allen college moments.

[Dukestreetking]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

The Bills front office will have a ton of work to do restructuring contracts, and finding free agents who will be interested in taking less money in the first year of their contracts.   They can free up money but they will have to be clever.

This.

 

I know we're not pro GMs here, but every move bears a heavy risk-reward calculus/ trade-off. There are zero "no loss" decisions. Not impugning any particular person, but it  seems we posters often forget this.

 

That said, I favor grabbing T Hill, Watt (jr), and maybe K Mack this off-season.

 

Damn, this s**t is easy.

[Adamb412]

For the love of God do not draft a TE.  Outside of Kelce and maybe gronk, no ROOKIE TE ever makes an impact since jeremy shockey

[4BillsintheBurgh]

30 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

This.

 

I know we're not pro GMs here, but every move bears a heavy risk-reward calculus/ trade-off. There are zero "no loss" decisions. Not impugning any particular person, but it  seems we posters often forget this.

 

That said, I favor grabbing T Hill, Watt (jr), and maybe K Mack this off-season.

 

Damn, this s**t is easy.

Got me thinking maybe bud Dupree might be available on a short term contract, he could help the pass rush.

[Dukestreetking]

2 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Got me thinking maybe bud Dupree might be available on a short term contract, he could help the pass rush.

 

Interesting thought. I like him, esp his 2019 production (yes, I am clearly a football genius).

 

At what number, and do you give up on Klein relative to that number?

 

Also, will he be ready to make an impact upcoming season? My view and experience is that--though one can play earlier--it takes well over a year for "full" ACL recovery.

 

So, I'm squeamish re knee injuries (except Thurman Thomas!) and have no great insight re above.

 

Thank god we have exec o' yr to make these calls.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

17 hours ago, Dukestreetking said:

 

Interesting thought. I like him, esp his 2019 production (yes, I am clearly a football genius).

 

At what number, and do you give up on Klein relative to that number?

 

Also, will he be ready to make an impact upcoming season? My view and experience is that--though one can play earlier--it takes well over a year for "full" ACL recovery.

 

So, I'm squeamish re knee injuries (except Thurman Thomas!) and have no great insight re above.

 

Thank god we have exec o' yr to make these calls.

I see him more like Hughes, he would replace Addison's spot if they decide to move on from him.

 

As far as the injury, I agree that he probably will not be up to speed in the first year. Seems like a similar situation as Murphy though, and I think a two or three year deal might be possible. Really with our substitution defense and our place in the afc hierarchy it should probably be a good situation for him since he does not need to play 70+% of the snaps.

 

As far as number, he played on the tag for 15+ million last year. He was probably worth a little less than that so I would think the contract might be in the 10 million range per year and the longer it is the better it is for the Bills. 

[DCOrange]

20 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Got me thinking maybe bud Dupree might be available on a short term contract, he could help the pass rush.

I'm not sure he actually improves it honestly. QBs were getting the ball out in 2-2.5 seconds against this year and Dupree generally takes 3-4 seconds to get to the QB, and that's while playing next to far better pass-rushers than what he'd have here. He seems prime to get overpaid by someone and I hope it isn't us.

[Mat68]

Im curious if the other Alabama wr will be available at 30.  Coming off his ankle injury with no work outs or combine I think he could make it.  Last year and coming into this year Waddle was the highest projected wr for Alabama.  Pipe dream? Maybe.  Clming out of thr KC game the Bills need more speed on offense.

[NewEra]

23 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Receiver or Tight End.

 

Look at the teams competing in the super bowl this year. Each has not one but two elite receivers for each team. Beane is going to have to continue to work his magic.

 

My nomination:

 

Kenny Golladay.

 

We have to check out his medicals coming off that hip injury but he'll only be 27 to start the season next year. At 6'4" he still has enough speed to take the top off the defense. A deep threat that has averaged nearly 17 yards per reception for his four year career. He'd play the Marquez Valdez-Scantling role in our offense. Would we be able to clear enough cap space to afford him? He's a candidate to be franchise tagged too if the Lions can't work out a deal.

 

He'll likely earn the third highest WR contract in free agency this off-season behind Allen Robinson and Chris Godwin. 

There’s no chance we pay golladay what he’s going to get paid. 

[SCBills]

Kadarius Toney or Najee Harris at Pick 30

 

Both give us a pass catching element we did not have against KC

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I'm not sure he actually improves it honestly. QBs were getting the ball out in 2-2.5 seconds against this year and Dupree generally takes 3-4 seconds to get to the QB, and that's while playing next to far better pass-rushers than what he'd have here. He seems prime to get overpaid by someone and I hope it isn't us.

Agreed.  Good player.  Not elite or good enough for his price tag imo

[4BillsintheBurgh]

25 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I'm not sure he actually improves it honestly. QBs were getting the ball out in 2-2.5 seconds against this year and Dupree generally takes 3-4 seconds to get to the QB, and that's while playing next to far better pass-rushers than what he'd have here. He seems prime to get overpaid by someone and I hope it isn't us.

The Steelers did move Dupree to the right side because Watt was more effective on the left so being on a team with those kind of pass rushers got him that. And really, the few guys that get to the qb in under 3 seconds don't come on the market often. Dupree has improved over time and I don't think a 2/20 or 3/30-35 is overpaying. He is also a good enough athlete to drop out into a zone which I hope we do more of while sending other folks.

 

I will also add that if you gave me a choice between him and Addison for similar money I'm taking Dupree.

Edited January 26, 2021 by 4BillsintheBurgh

[Dukestreetking]

1 hour ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

 

I will also add that if you gave me a choice between him and Addison for similar money I'm taking Dupree.

Thank god when someone explicitly states the trade-off, whether you agree or not.  

 

I like the OP's thread, but I wish there was room to add "...and specifically who/what would you be willing to give up for that FA, etc?"

 

Anyway, back to issue: @4BillsintheBurghsounds like you would be willing to "trade/give up" MA's $8m (someone correct me) for BD at, say, $30/3. Is that fair? I'm just trying to lay out parameters.

 

I don't think it's totally out of the question, but admit I'm a bit skeptical.

 

Sincere questions: this is primarily to resolve pass rush issues, thus potential fewer snaps on the ACL yr 1? I see his TFLs, but how is he v the run more generally? Finally, how sensitive would you be to the price? Still do it at, say, 36-3?

 

Not trying to bombard you w questions...it's an idea (again, I'm hesitant) that's at least worth further exploration. You can be damn sure OBD is considering all kinds of these options.

 

[Btw, not necessarily looking for immediate response. Unfortunately, we have time to ponder.]

Edited January 26, 2021 by Dukestreetking

[4BillsintheBurgh]

35 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

Thank god when someone explicitly states the trade-off, whether you agree or not.  

 

I like the OP's thread, but I wish there was room to add "...and specifically who/what would you be willing to give up for that FA, etc?"

 

Anyway, back to issue: @4BillsintheBurghsounds like you would be willing to "trade/give up" MA's $8m (someone correct me) for BD at, say, $30/3. Is that fair? I'm just trying to lay out parameters.

 

I don't think it's totally out of the question, but admit I'm a bit skeptical.

 

Sincere questions: this is primarily to resolve pass rush issues, thus potential fewer snaps on the ACL yr 1? I see his TFLs, but how is he v the run more generally? Finally, how sensitive would you be to the price? Still do it at, say, 36-3?

 

Not trying to bombard you w questions...it's an idea (again, I'm hesitant) that's at least worth further exploration. You can be damn sure OBD is considering all kinds of these options.

Well, you made me look, so I found this link:

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2020/3/9/21167309/bud-dupree-is-going-to-get-a-big-contract-is-he-worth-it-part-3-run-defense-film-steelers-free-agent

 

When I watch the games I don't study him for example, but do know he has some attack to his game, and really the defense gives him the latitude to be aggressive. I don't know if McD's defense will allow him to attack in the same way but you can see he has the pop in his technique to keep blockers off of him. When healthy I think he can succeed in this defense. As you have said, the question is how much you give him due to a partial season at best in his first year. I also wonder if our state of the art facilities will also help convince him to come here.

 

As far as money limits, I don't have enough info to make that call. That will be on Beane to map out the next 4 or so years to determine the contract that best fits with who they want to have under contract. 

 

I looked at the one clip in that bunch and he does tackle Kyler Murray in a one-on-one situation. 😃

Edited January 26, 2021 by 4BillsintheBurgh

[Jay_Fixit]

I wouldn’t mind a guy like Hunter Henry. But the Bills definitely need to shore up the pass rush. That’s the most frustrating part of this team for me.

[Comebackkid]

Seems to me that if we had a Darius like dude that actually with smart and not lazy that would free up everybody else on the d-line to do their job. Plus we have a 6-4 receiver on injured reserve that should be playing next year that didn't drop a ball in college

[Milanos Milano]

I want TY Hilton. 
 

Diggs Hilton and Beasley underneath. Davis with a good 4th option. 

[Milanos Milano]

John Ross is also a good choice to fill Brown’s spot. 

[Dukestreetking]

2 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Well, you made me look, so I found this link:

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2020/3/9/21167309/bud-dupree-is-going-to-get-a-big-contract-is-he-worth-it-part-3-run-defense-film-steelers-free-agent

 

When I watch the games I don't study him for example, but do know he has some attack to his game, and really the defense gives him the latitude to be aggressive. I don't know if McD's defense will allow him to attack in the same way but you can see he has the pop in his technique to keep blockers off of him. When healthy I think he can succeed in this defense. As you have said, the question is how much you give him due to a partial season at best in his first year. I also wonder if our state of the art facilities will also help convince him to come here.

 

As far as money limits, I don't have enough info to make that call. That will be on Beane to map out the next 4 or so years to determine the contract that best fits with who they want to have under contract. 

 

I looked at the one clip in that bunch and he does tackle Kyler Murray in a one-on-one situation. 😃

I got so motivated, I read all 3 parts of article, plus some related pieces. So thanks for passing along.

 

At same time, I just realized (derp) this is a pass catcher thread... apologies for jamming signals.

 

So, very quickly: (1) much more impressive in run game than I thought, and it's not a Watt second order effect. (2) believe, as you do, his skill set would fit well w Bills (3) even w acl tear, and probable PuP status early, he'll be out of our $ range.

 

But Beane is a wizard. Maybe he can make some magic happen w BD.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Dukestreetking
Frickin typos up ying yang

[Solomon Grundy]

In the draft, I’d like to get Tamorrion Terry from FSU later in the draft. Big, fast receiver. Get him in receivers room with Diggs and Beasley 

[Motorin']

On 1/25/2021 at 9:35 AM, Brennan Huff said:

I don’t want to spend a penny on pass catchers. I’m all in on pass rushers

 

Trey Henrickson would be my #1 FA target. Monster year with 13.5 sacks, and much bigger and stronger setting the edge than anyone we currently have.

[The Jokeman]

TE Hunter Henry as an unrestricted free agent, I wanted him last offseason but the Chargers franchised him so he wasn't available. I hope he is this offseason as still like to add him. 

[RiotAct]

On 1/25/2021 at 10:33 AM, Plano said:

Allen lost himself some $ with those playoff performances, IMO. 

let’s hope!

[WMDman]

Travis ETN