All-22 Grades for Bills/Chiefs (The Athletic)

[HappyDays]

 

A few snippets:

 

1) Edmunds doesn’t look anywhere close to his 2019 self (or even 2018)

Tremaine Edmunds has had one of the most confounding starts to the season of any Bills player. In the second half of his rookie year, Edmunds was showing signs of becoming a solid starting middle linebacker, with the potential for more. He then finished last season as a top-10 player on the roster, according to my weekly reviews, maintaining a 2.99 GPA over 1,065 snaps and averaging a “B” grade. Through almost five full starts this season, Edmunds’ level of play has dropped off so much that his GPA is a 2.02 (or “C” grade), which on this scale is well below a replacement-level player. I’ve been using this grading system for about six or seven years now. Players who consistently grade at or around those levels are usually the ones the team is looking to replace. For example, the Bills desperately tried to move on from Jordan Mills, Ryan Groy and Russell Bodine as starters after the 2018 season. That year, Mills graded better (2.12) than Edmunds is currently, while Groy (1.94) and Bodine (1.90) were only slightly below.

 

In an unusual move, the Bills did not dress a single one-technique defensive tackle against the Chiefs, opting to make Harrison Phillips a healthy scratch. Oliver, Quinton Jefferson, Vernon Butler and Justin Zimmer fit best in the three-technique defensive tackle role, so something had to give. The result was Oliver playing as the one-technique defensive tackle for the majority of his snaps. Of his 34 snaps, Oliver filled the one-technique role 67 percent of the time (23 snaps). 

 

Oliver was clearly playing out of position all game, but the Bills went with it out of self-preservation. In his few three-technique snaps, Oliver mostly won his one-on-ones. Overall, he didn’t have enough opportunities to penetrate the backfield by the Bills’ design.

 

3) Justin Zimmer is a revelation

 

Zimmer and the Bills were at their best when he lined up at one-technique. He played almost exclusively with Butler, outside of a few third-down passing plays when Mario Addison slid inside into a stand-up, three-technique position. On ten designed runs against the Butler-Zimmer pairing, the Bills allowed only 1.6 yards per carry for a total of 16 yards. Five of those ten attempts went for zero or negative yards and seven were for negative-4.

 

4) Chris Jones wrecked the Bills’ offensive plans

The Bills had a pair of problems on offense against Kansas City, and the two went hand in hand. Right guard Brian Winters, left guard Cody Ford and substitute left guard Ike Boettger all had some of their worst performances of the season. The player responsible for almost all of their lapses was Chiefs defensive tackle Chris Jones, who rivaled Patrick Mahomes as the most impactful player for either team.

 

5) Outside of some missed throws, Allen’s day wasn’t as bad as it seemed

 

Allen did have issues with ball placement and missed some clear throws — the Stefon Diggs throw to the end zone being the most glaring example — but it wasn’t anything too different from what we’ve seen in other games. It fits with Allen’s identity right now, and the Bills know what he does well far outweighs those bad moments.

 

Allen also continued to show improvements against all-out blitz attempts, reading the defense, spotting the holes in coverage and calmly delivering a quick throw. He was hard on himself after the game for the missed throws early in the game, but he was far from the Bills’ biggest problem on offense. Allen still looked like an advanced version of his 2019 self, even without the statistics to back it up. He has remained on the right track, even in two losses.

 

Top 5 grades: Zimmer, Butler, Morse, Beasley, Allen

 

Bottom 5 grades: Edmunds, Winters, Jefferson, Ford, Klein

[Royale with Cheese]

Can someone explain to me how Vernon Butler at 330 lbs isn't a one technique?  Joe B said we didn't dress a single one technique.

[LeGOATski]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Can someone explain to me how Vernon Butler at 330 lbs isn't a one technique?  Joe B said we didn't dress a single one technique.

I believe Jordan Phillips is even bigger and also played 3-tech mostly, filling in at 1-tech sometimes.

 

I couldn't tell you why. I assume it's just based on skills.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I believe Jordan Phillips is even bigger and also played 3-tech mostly, filling in at 1-tech sometimes.

 

I couldn't tell you why. I assume it's just based on skills.

 

It sounds like Harrison Phillips needs to start playing better to free up Oliver.  When Oliver is playing the 1 tech 2/3 of his game....that's a problem.

[BillsFanSD]

I thought Allen played fine last week but was too timid to say so.  Glad somebody else noticed that.

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

I thought Allen played fine last week but was too timid to say so.  Glad somebody else noticed that.

 

I wouldn't say he played well. It was his worst game of the season by far and was too much like 2019 Allen for my liking. You can't miss throws and TDs early when you're going against the Chiefs offense. Down the stretch the offense let him down more than he let them down but the 1st half struggles were mainly on him IMO. Who knows, maybe if Brown catches an accurate 3rd down throw on the first drive the whole game would have gone differently. It feels like the first 4 weeks the offense could overcome mistakes but the last 2 weeks the margin for error has been zero. The whole offense is in a funk.

[zevo]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

I wouldn't say he played well. It was his worst game of the season by far and was too much like 2019 Allen for my liking. You can't miss throws and TDs early when you're going against the Chiefs offense. Down the stretch the offense let him down more than he let them down but the 1st half struggles were mainly on him IMO. Who knows, maybe if Brown catches an accurate 3rd down throw on the first drive the whole game would have gone differently. It feels like the first 4 weeks the offense could overcome mistakes but the last 2 weeks the margin for error has been zero. The whole offense is in a funk.

The bomb to Diggs in the endzone was a dime and a game changer...I believe there was one other deep shot that went to brown that was there as well

[whatdrought]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I wouldn't say he played well. It was his worst game of the season by far and was too much like 2019 Allen for my liking. You can't miss throws and TDs early when you're going against the Chiefs offense. Down the stretch the offense let him down more than he let them down but the 1st half struggles were mainly on him IMO. Who knows, maybe if Brown catches an accurate 3rd down throw on the first drive the whole game would have gone differently. It feels like the first 4 weeks the offense could overcome mistakes but the last 2 weeks the margin for error has been zero. The whole offense is in a funk.

 

The deep miss to Diggs stung, given where we’re at so far this year, and the timing miss to Beasley across the middle late in the game stung as well (though I wonder how much of that was Beasley adding extra flourish on his route and not being where Allen expected him- Allen still needs to make the throw) 

 

That Brown drop is the big what if for me. Josh came out not mentally where he needed to be (my biggest complaint about him so far in three years is how his emotional swings impact his play) but completions calms him down. Brown catches that and we continue to move the ball and I think we see a very different game - at least on Allen’s side of things.

[JohnNord]

Interesting article from Joe.  He breaks down the problems on the Bills and it’s issues at all levels but mainly the front 7.

 

It starts with the defensive line - in particular the DT’s.  They aren’t occupying blocks and are losing matchups.

 

Then the LB’s in particular Edmunds.  He isn’t reacting and when he does he’s often fooled with misdirection.  He has not been able to shed blocks very well.  Edmunds was given a D+ which was the lowest score for all players.  

[Bigantall]

30 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

A few snippets:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top 5 grades: Zimmer, Butler, Morse, Beasley, Allen

 

Bottom 5 grades: Edmunds, Winters, Jefferson, Ford, Klein

Edmunds said he will have to play with the hurt shoulder he's not making excuse for it ok that's fine but you have to make the plays you can't have it both ways 

[Royale with Cheese]

It seems the rain affected Allen when it didn't affect Mahomes.  Allen wasn't as composed this game as he was early on.

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, zevo said:

The bomb to Diggs in the endzone was a dime and a game changer...I believe there was one other deep shot that went to brown that was there as well

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we score a TD on that drive anyways?

[gordong]

Edmunds is going to struggle all year it seems....hopefully the shoulder gets better,  but obviously its a problem. 

49 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

It seems the rain affected Allen when it didn't affect Mahomes.  Allen wasn't as composed this game as he was early on.

  I don't know Mahomes has some really bad throws too... and unlike Josh he had 8 hrs in the packet due to no damn pass rush 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, gordong said:

Edmunds is going to struggle all year it seems....hopefully the shoulder gets better,  but obviously its a problem. 

  I don't know Mahomes has some really bad throws too... and unlike Josh he had 8 hrs in the packet due to no damn pass rush 

 

Mahomes still made big throws, even under pressure.  

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Can someone explain to me how Vernon Butler at 330 lbs isn't a one technique?  Joe B said we didn't dress a single one technique.

 

Just because someone is big doesn't make them the type of player who can anchor and not be moved in the middle of the defense. It comes down to knowing how to use that weight effectively and gaining leverage. If a player doesn't have the ability to do that the player won't be effective there.

 

I mean yeah 330 lbs is a heavy weight but the 2 players double teaming him are about 650 lbs.

 

 

On a separate note, I don't get why the Bills didn't try and bring pressure until the end of the game when they had to. It was actually effective and some of their best plays on defense were when they brought extra guys instead of sitting back and letting Mahomes pick them apart of break contain and run.

Edited October 23, 2020 by matter2003

[Stank_Nasty]

10 minutes ago, gordong said:

Edmunds is going to struggle all year it seems....hopefully the shoulder gets better,  but obviously its a problem. 

  I don't know Mahomes has some really bad throws too... and unlike Josh he had 8 hrs in the packet due to no damn pass rush 

he was 21-26

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Just because someone is big doesn't make them the type of player who can anchor and not be moved in the middle of the defense. It comes down to knowing how to use that weight effectively and gaining leverage. If a player doesn't have the ability to do that the player won't be effective there.

 

I mean yeah 330 lbs is a heavy weight but the 2 players double teaming him are about 650 lbs.

 

 

On a separate note, I don't get why the Bills didn't try and bring pressure until the end of the game when they had to. It was actually effective and some of their best plays on defense were when they brought extra guys instead of sitting back and letting Mahomes pick them apart of break contain and run.

 

I understand that but Ed Oliver played mostly at 1 tech and 650 lbs probably can move 290 lbs easier than 330 lbs.  

 

We only sent more than 4 guys just once and KC had a big gain.  

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

It seems the rain affected Allen when it didn't affect Mahomes.  Allen wasn't as composed this game as he was early on.

The announcers mentioned many times that the rain was affecting Mahomes. He missed a bunch of throws too.

[Big Turk]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I understand that but Ed Oliver played mostly at 1 tech and 650 lbs probably can move 290 lbs easier than 330 lbs.  

 

We only sent more than 4 guys just once and KC had a big gain.  

 

A lot of those run stops were run blitzes where extra guys were coming.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, zevo said:

The bomb to Diggs in the endzone was a dime and a game changer...I believe there was one other deep shot that went to brown that was there as well

The one to Brown was accurate, DB made a great play on the ball imo

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

The announcers mentioned many times that the rain was affecting Mahomes. He missed a bunch of throws too.

he went 21 for 26. so ya, thats a bit aggressive.

 

I'm not losing my mind over Allen but i'm not gonna blatantly lie about what i saw from mahomes to make Allens performance seem better. Geez guys.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

The announcers mentioned many times that the rain was affecting Mahomes. He missed a bunch of throws too.

 

He was 21 of 26....he had 5 incompletions.  

3 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

A lot of those run stops were run blitzes where extra guys were coming.

 

Okay.  I was just referring to the pass defense.  

 

And just like Mahomes said post game....when they came up, we threw over them.  Yes, he was right.  

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He was 21 of 26....he had 5 incompletions.  

 

Okay.  I was just referring to the pass defense.  

 

And just like Mahomes said post game....when they came up, we threw over them.  Yes, he was right.  

 

Is it just me or did the Bills do a much better job last year and the year before with showing simulated pressure, then backing off and maybe having a guy rush from a place that the offense wasn't expecting?

 

I seem to remember double A gap blitzes and simulated blitzes were a big problem for a lot of the teams they played.

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Is it just me or did the Bills do a much better job last year and the year before with showing simulated pressure, then backing off and maybe having a guy rush from a place that the offense wasn't expecting?

 

I seem to remember double A gap blitzes and simulated blitzes were a big problem for a lot of the teams they played.

 

I'm not lying to you....I have noticed this too.  I've wondered where it went as well...

[stevewin]

Quote

Of Jefferson’s 11 snaps at one-technique, the Bills’ run defense was a complete disaster. Six of those 11 plays were designed rushing attempts by the Chiefs, on which they gained 64 yards for an average of 10.7 yards per carry. Half of those carries went for 8 yards or more.

[Gugny]

Admittedly, I am far from an expert when it comes to defenses and where players play.

 

My questions:

 

Is this a Frazier problem or is it a McDermott problem?

And/or - is this a Beane problem because we don't have the right (or right kinds of) players on the roster?

 

Thank you!

[warrior9]

14 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Admittedly, I am far from an expert when it comes to defenses and where players play.

 

My questions:

 

Is this a Frazier problem or is it a McDermott problem?

And/or - is this a Beane problem because we don't have the right (or right kinds of) players on the roster?

 

Thank you!

I think it's a personnel problem. We brought in so many DL this year that they're trying to figure out who fits best where. 

 

Oliver should and cannot be a 1 tech at sub 300. It seems as though they're trying to play around with the pairings. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Zimmer 1 tech and Oliver 3 tech this week vs Jets. 

 

In terms of Beane not getting the right players, I think it may be too early to tell across the DL. The Chiefs run D was a disaster at the start of last year and after 8 weeks or so it became much better. I think we'll know more within 2-3 weeks who our defense really is. 

 

Long story short: It's frustrating right now but I don't think there is cause to panic just yet. Maybe Edmunds issue is injury issue, maybe it's a Star issue. The secondary seems like it's slumping, however, it's hard to tell when they have to cover for 3-5 seconds every play. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by warrior9

[Sharky7337]

52 minutes ago, MJS said:

The announcers mentioned many times that the rain was affecting Mahomes. He missed a bunch of throws too.

Ya cause he's Mahomes and if its Allen he just sucks

[Antonio]

2 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Interesting article from Joe.  He breaks down the problems on the Bills and it’s issues at all levels but mainly the front 7.

 

It starts with the defensive line - in particular the DT’s.  They aren’t occupying blocks and are losing matchups.

 

Then the LB’s in particular Edmunds.  He isn’t reacting and when he does he’s often fooled with misdirection.  He has not been able to shed blocks very well.  Edmunds was given a D+ which was the lowest score for all players.  

 

I saw the All 22 and it is very hard for any LB to move sideline to sideline when you have multiple guys coming your way. 

 

I think the biggest problem is the DTs are not doing their part. Take a look at the game again if you can and watch the KC Gards and Center, they often combo blocked our DTs for a second and moved them well, then one of them was quick to find someone on our sencond level (Tremain or Klein). Even if they were colsing on their gap, the Gards often were quicker cause they didn´t need to help too much in the combo blocks. 

[Reader]

Two LB's bottom 5 grades, yeesh

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

I thought Allen played fine last week but was too timid to say so.  Glad somebody else noticed that.

Played fine?  He looked like a rookie and was terrible.  He regressed badly on the physical side of his game.  His accuracy went back to be wildly off.  

 

He did make some pre-snap reads that were impressive.

 

 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

Admittedly, I am far from an expert when it comes to defenses and where players play.

 

My questions:

 

Is this a Frazier problem or is it a McDermott problem?

And/or - is this a Beane problem because we don't have the right (or right kinds of) players on the roster?

 

Thank you!

It’s a cupboard issue.

 

Last year, we had complimentary skill sets on the DL. JP could penetrate. Shaq could hold an edge. Hughes could pressure. Star could eat blocks.

 

Hughes is old and the rest of those players are missing. Oliver is playing out of position because Phillips sucks as a 1t, and Butler/Jefferson have been underwhelming at 3t. No one can hold the edge well on the ends, Hughes spins inside, Murphy gets bowled over. Addison is inconsistent at everything he does.

 

Combine that with an injured Milano and a banged up Edmunds who is regressing a bit, and that’s a recipe for disaster. Like 265 yards allowed on the ground disaster.

Edited October 23, 2020 by FireChans

[gordong]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Mahomes still made big throws, even under pressure.  

 what pressure??? 

[Big Blitz]

I just think when you get absolutely pummeled up front like that it impacts the entire mentality of the team.

 

When your own offense can't run the ball at all it makes it even worse. 

 

Manhood has to have been called out repeatedly since probably halftime of Tennessee.  We responded by scratching 2 d linemen.  And got wrecked.  Makes you call into question how good you think are real quick.  And can turn into a lot of finger pointing and blame and it looks like this team has experienced some of that given the benchings, the recent release of Spain, and Ford tweeting because its 2020 and hey everyone look at me I'm in my feelings.  

 

 

You don't have to have a top 5 line, but you cannot win if you have the worst front 7 in the NFL and an oline that can't get you some yards on the ground when you need it.  

[Ralonzo]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Top 5 grades: Zimmer, Butler, Morse, Beasley, Allen

 

Bottom 5 grades: Edmunds, Winters, Jefferson, Ford, Klein

 

Been a busy stretch personally but I put on the DVR after seeing the "Allen is no longer the answer" stuff after the game and this matches up with my take. He missed 4-5 throws instead of 2-3 throws that he's been doing this year (and getting bailed out on some of those). A lot of throw-aways skewed his stats. And like the Tennessee game once he figured it out he was moving the team, but the other phases couldn't get him the ball back.

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

he went 21 for 26. so ya, thats a bit aggressive.

 

I'm not losing my mind over Allen but i'm not gonna blatantly lie about what i saw from mahomes to make Allens performance seem better. Geez guys.

Yea, Mahomes was fine.  He missed a couple throws so I’m not going to mock him because he didn’t go 26/26 ....

 

That said, Mahomes had a running game & Kelce... two things Allen didn’t have that clearly made a difference.  
 

Allen was trying to push the ball down the field, in wet conditions, against a flooded zone while our offense was completely one dimensional.  
 

He could’ve helped himself by hitting a wide open TD pass to Diggs, and potential TD pass to Singletary... those are 2019 Allen misses that need to be cleaned up.  
 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by SCBills

[BuffaloMatt]

KC lost to the raiders without Jones in lineup. He was the true gamechanger in this one. Bills don't have that on D and we better make some moves to get an edge rusher and/or a Big DT to plug the middle. If not NE could have a field day with us running that power run game with cam, white and burkhead. 

[Jauronimo]

Quote

The Bills don’t know if Zimmer is the answer based on the one-game sample size (thus the need to explore the trade market), but he held the point of attack as the one-technique and must have a spot in the lineup for as long as he keeps this up.

This is not what I have heard or saw in other reviews of the KC game.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

he went 21 for 26. so ya, thats a bit aggressive.

 

I'm not losing my mind over Allen but i'm not gonna blatantly lie about what i saw from mahomes to make Allens performance seem better. Geez guys.

Me neither. He missed throws and it was talked about on the broadcast.

[GunnerBill]

That Ed played a lot of 1 tech would explain why from the tv angle it looked like he got the double team a LOT.