Earl Thomas On His Way Out Of Baltimore (Edit: now cut)

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, purple haze said:

The fights are most likely not isolated events. If teammates want him gone there are more incidents, whatever they might be, that haven’t gotten out. This latest thing was the last straw for them.

 

It will be a heavy lift to cancel his contract over that and guys not liking him.

 

1 hour ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

the above is pretty much a collection of some of the biggest troublemakers over the last 20 years! I just think when you have the pats culture plus the vet leadership there and track record of winning, it prevents any of those guys (or any other troublemaker) from getting out of hand.
 

plus, in the past, the pats didn’t need any of those guys. They had a super bowl team; they could roll the dice and take a risk and then cut a guy after a game if they wanted (AB).

 

I think the dynamic there would be much different now. In fact, I will be curious to see even how Cam does there, as he can be a little weird sometimes. 

 

Come on!   No they are not.  Not as a group.   Might as well put Revis in there too--he held every team hostage for more money as soon as the ink on his latest contract dried.

 

Again, the trouble makers (Haynesworth, AB) didn't last so that culture had no effect.  

 

Moss, Dillon, Johnson were hardly much "trouble".    All of them had huge careers on their teams previous to NE.

 

NE needed Dillon.  Also Moss.  Even Revis.  

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I think Pete Carroll's true genius as coach was that he could maintain a winning culture with egos like Richard Sherman and Beast-Mode.  I didn't realiize Thomas was one, too, but it just emphasizes the point.  

Yes same w Tomlin

[Mark80]

4 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Who could’ve guessed that the guy who flipped Seattle fans the bird after getting injured two seasons ago would cause a problem on a new team?

Absolutely not at all what he did.  He flipped off the organization.  He didnt want to play without an extension and the security it offered.  The organization refused.  He decided to play anyway and he subsequently suffered a serious, season ending injury.  Nothing at all to do with fans. 

[MiltonWaddams]

1 hour ago, Mark80 said:

Absolutely not at all what he did.  He flipped off the organization.  He didnt want to play without an extension and the security it offered.  The organization refused.  He decided to play anyway and he subsequently suffered a serious, season ending injury.  Nothing at all to do with fans. 

So what you’re saying is that he stuck his middle finger up towards John Schneider and Pete Carroll and the rest of the management team without any fans in attendance? No, that’s not what he did. He stuck his middle finger up directly at the stands when it happened. I’ve seen the video. I know what happened. I also live in the Pacific Northwest and know what that represented to fans. The players who are not willing to live up to the contract which they signed, need to reevaluate their standing. The guy is a major league prima donna. I get tired of guys making millions of dollars playing sports  not agreeing to the contracts that they signed themselves. This wasn’t the decision of the management. It was a decision of the player. The management agreed to the contract, the player agreed to the contract and the management honored that contract while the player determined that the contract did not warrant him going to work. In what world is it right for the employee to agree to a contract in the millions of dollars, decide not to show up to work and then get mad at the management about that?

[Sherlock Holmes]

I'll take Harrison Smith please

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It will be a heavy lift to cancel his contract over that and guys not liking him.

 

 

Come on!   No they are not.  Not as a group.   Might as well put Revis in there too--he held every team hostage for more money as soon as the ink on his latest contract dried.

 

Again, the trouble makers (Haynesworth, AB) didn't last so that culture had no effect.  

 

Moss, Dillon, Johnson were hardly much "trouble".    All of them had huge careers on their teams previous to NE.

 

NE needed Dillon.  Also Moss.  Even Revis.  

 

I feel like we are arguing over nothing here! ?

 

in any event, maybe we just are defining “trouble” differently. The players that the Patriots in the past have gone for have red flags (that can be trouble with the law, bad character, locker rooms problems, or bad attitude).  The players I mentioned above fit that bill. You can call these guys “risky” or “troubled” or “wayward.”  But in the end, the Pats mostly were able to get these guys to fall in line. I think that has to do with winning and culture— I am also not saying that their culture is “good” necessarily. But they run a tight ship; and guys have to get in line or they are out. 

[MiltonWaddams]

6 hours ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

 Are you expecting Vernon Butler to be a problem then? He flipped off Panthers fans for getting on his back.

To be quite honest, yes. Or rather, it would not surprise me if he did take a bad turn. And, as I stated, does it surprise anybody when somebody with the transgressions that have occurred in their past has an additional transgression? No, it is not a surprise.
 

Earl Thomas also had one heck of an off-season where he was caught naked in bed with his brother and a female . I think we can all agree that’s a bit messed up. 

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

So what you’re saying is that he stuck his middle finger up towards John Schneider and Pete Carroll and the rest of the management team without any fans in attendance? No, that’s not what he did. He stuck his middle finger up directly at the stands when it happened. I’ve seen the video. I know what happened. I also live in the Pacific Northwest and know what that represented to fans. The players who are not willing to live up to the contract which they signed, need to reevaluate their standing. The guy is a major league prima donna. I get tired of guys making millions of dollars playing sports  not agreeing to the contracts that they signed themselves. This wasn’t the decision of the management. It was a decision of the player. The management agreed to the contract, the player agreed to the contract and the management honored that contract while the player determined that the contract did not warrant him going to work. In what world is it right for the employee to agree to a contract in the millions of dollars, decide not to show up to work and then get mad at the management about that?

But the reality is, you have no idea who he was sticking his middle finger up at.  The fans can think whatever they want.  That doesn’t mean he was saying FU to the fans.  There’s a big difference with regards to Earl Thomas the person.  The fact is, you really don’t know.  I’ve taken care of Earl on a couple occasions and he’s one of the nicest atheletes I’ve encountered.  Extremely respectful, friendly and seemed to be all class.  I have no idea who he was saying FU too and I won’t pretend to know

[MiltonWaddams]

Just now, NewEra said:

But the reality is, you have no idea who he was sticking his middle finger up at.  The fans can think whatever they want.  That doesn’t mean he was saying FU to the fans.  There’s a big difference with regards to Earl Thomas the person.  The fact is, you really don’t know.  I’ve taken care of Earl on a couple occasions and he’s one of the nicest atheletes I’ve encountered.  Extremely respectful, friendly and seemed to be all class.  I have no idea who he was saying FU too and I won’t pretend to know

I think that I should clarify. I am aware of his feelings towards the Seahawks management team and also feel that he was extending his middle finger to them and not to the fans whatsoever. However, it comes down to optics and those were bad optics. Although a lot of people around the country believe that Seahawks fans are not a strong fan base, or are bandwagon, a lot of my friends who are hawks fans here in the Pacific Northwest were definitely not elated with his actions. The team has a very strong Fanbase and, in my experience, Is largely quite a knowledgable group. They understood why he did what he did, but they did not understand why he would do it in the way that he did and it showed poorly on his character, despite what he had shown publicly to that point.

[Herc11]

10 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I think Pete Carroll's true genius as coach was that he could maintain a winning culture with egos like Richard Sherman and Beast-Mode.  I didn't realiize Thomas was one, too, but it just emphasizes the point.  

Its easier to maintain the egos before the accolades. As success and accolades build, egos and attitudes begin rearing their ugly heads and players begin feeling they are bigger than the team. That's when the true difficulties of maintaining a team come into play.

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Herc11

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

I think that I should clarify. I am aware of his feelings towards the Seahawks management team and also feel that he was extending his middle finger to them and not to the fans whatsoever. However, it comes down to optics and those were bad optics. Although a lot of people around the country believe that Seahawks fans are not a strong fan base, or are bandwagon, a lot of my friends who are hawks fans here in the Pacific Northwest were definitely not elated with his actions. The team has a very strong Fanbase and, in my experience, Is largely quite a knowledgable group. They understood why he did what he did, but they did not understand why he would do it in the way that he did and it showed poorly on his character, despite what he had shown publicly to that point.

They should’ve realized that the dude was just seriously injured and was without the security he as asking for.  Heat of the moment, they should get over it.  He was a class act and key contributor to their super bowl victory.  Without injury and he’s a first ballot HoF and one of the best safeties ever. Appreciate him and empathize with the moment he was in.  
 

I agree Seattle fans love their team.  It was a raucous crowd on MNF a couple years ago

[purple haze]

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It will be a heavy lift to cancel his contract over that and guys not liking him.

There would definitely be a legal battle over it.  But the strength of the organization’s case depends on the evidence they have.  Like I said, these fights probably won’t be the only ammunition they have against Thomas.  I suspect other details will start to leak out.  
 

In a sport where on the field dustup’s are not rare, it’s telling that teammates want him gone.  There has to be other stuff going on; how bad is that stuff is the question.

[Shaw66]

59 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

Its easier to maintain the egos before the accolades. As success and accolades build, egos and attitudes begin rearing their ugly heads and players begin feeling they are bigger than the team. That's when the true difficulties of maintaining a team come into play.

 

Lynch and Sherman had ego problems real early.  

[billieve420]

10 hours ago, syhuang said:

The incident:

 

 

 

Dude is definitely not doing himself any favors by posting that video regardless of the fight in practice.

[Paulus]

12 hours ago, mattynh said:

He flipped off the Seahawks management not the fans 

And, they deserved it, if memory serves...

[Mikie2times]

After a run of over 100 consecutive starts, he dislocated his shoulder in 2015 and required surgery. Then he broke his tibia in 2016. He had a outstanding recovery year in 2017 which took him to the last year of his contract.  He held out at the start or 2018 wanting a new contract. I think he felt after all he had been through in 15 and 16 his performance in 17 warranted a new contract. Seattle didn't give it to him and most elites from the legion of boom already left or had a pretty thick layer of distrust with Carroll. Thomas was one of the last remaining.

 

Few weeks into 2018 and he breaks his leg. If you watch the video you can tell Thomas knew his days in Seattle were over when he got injured, he had a momentary lapse in professionalism flipping Carroll off. I think the guy wants to win and doesn't have much patience for mistakes. Probably hasn't had a bond with a team since the legion of boom.  If Baltimore doesn't work out, it's possible Thomas could retire. Depends on his finances. I don't think he wants to play anymore after all the injuries and if he does it comes with a poor attitude and demanding perfection. Baltimore vets don't feel he fits in. It will get interesting. I see this as a make or break point for Thomas.     

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, purple haze said:

There would definitely be a legal battle over it.  But the strength of the organization’s case depends on the evidence they have.  Like I said, these fights probably won’t be the only ammunition they have against Thomas.  I suspect other details will start to leak out.  
 

In a sport where on the field dustup’s are not rare, it’s telling that teammates want him gone.  There has to be other stuff going on; how bad is that stuff is the question.

The details would have to border on criminal I would think.  He is who they signed.  They can’t pretend now that he’s so awful they won’t pay him

[BillsMafi$]

Per Adam Shefter he is going to be released or traded.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[machine gun kelly]

Looks like we were wrong Weo.  I can’t blame them if it was placed in his contract and they get out of the contract.  He was probably warned after the Browns game when he got into it with their NT.  “One more time, and you’re out”.  I really love Harbaugh as a coach.  He sharp and disciplined, and he created a winning culture considering the other conversation.

[Dablitzkrieg]

10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Yeah...on to the Pats.  In all seriousness though, if he is released, is he subject to waivers?

Edited August 23, 2020 by Dablitzkrieg

[Thurman#1]

20 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It will be a heavy lift to cancel his contract over that and guys not liking him.

 

 

Come on!   No they are not.  Not as a group.   Might as well put Revis in there too--he held every team hostage for more money as soon as the ink on his latest contract dried.

 

Again, the trouble makers (Haynesworth, AB) didn't last so that culture had no effect.  

 

Moss, Dillon, Johnson were hardly much "trouble".    All of them had huge careers on their teams previous to NE.

 

NE needed Dillon.  Also Moss.  Even Revis.  

 

 

Moss had dogged it for most of his two years in Oakland. He was a massive problem there, and worked so little that people thought there was a chance he'd lost his talent. Which is why the Pats had to give so little, a 4th, for Moss to the Raiders. And the NE culture and Moss' return of interest, caused a near-total about-face.

 

Dillon mocked Marvin Lewis and team management. No, he was no problem in N.E., but that's the point. The Pats have had a lot of success in getting troublemakers to stop making trouble. You're right that they haven't been perfect at it, and you're right that Haynesworth and AB are two among several who show that. But they absolutely have had some success at it. LeGarrette Blount had done poorly in Pittsburgh and had had that big issue in college. The Pats brought him in and had great success.

 

It is an interesting question whether N.E. might take a shot at him. They don't seem to mind bringing in guys with a history of problems with front offices. But the fact that the leadership council on the Ravens didn't want him back would make me for one slow down and try to figure out what had happened. That's not a good sign. I wonder what Thomas'll do next.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Thurman#1

[IgotBILLStopay]

Dont rule out Seattle trading for him. He was / is perfect for their lone safety defensive scheme and will come a lot cheaper since the Ravens have paid his sign on bonus. WHat he did at the back allowed Chancellor to be aggressive - will similarly allow them to deploy Jamal Adams near the LOS.

 

From a football point of view - makes too much sense.

[Rigotz]

Shocked that nobody is mentioning this:

https://www.tmz.com/2020/05/06/earl-thomas-wife-arrested-gun-baltimore-ravens-star-cheating-allegations/

 

The guy is getting himself into trouble on the field and off the field.

We should want nothing to do with him and I don't blame Baltimore if they ultimately feel the same.

[Thurman#1]

Wow, $25 mill in dead cap for the Ravens. Yikes. For a safety.

[JoPoy88]

Dude must be a world-class jerk. Players usually stick together. To hear that fellow players are the primary pushers for his release is surprising.  

[Mr. WEO]

48 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Moss had dogged it for most of his two years in Oakland. He was a massive problem there, and worked so little that people thought there was a chance he'd lost his talent. Which is why the Pats had to give so little, a 4th, for Moss to the Raiders. And the NE culture and Moss' return of interest, caused a near-total about-face.

 

Dillon mocked Marvin Lewis and team management. No, he was no problem in N.E., but that's the point. The Pats have had a lot of success in getting troublemakers to stop making trouble. You're right that they haven't been perfect at it, and you're right that Haynesworth and AB are two among several who show that. But they absolutely have had some success at it. 

 

It is an interesting question whether N.E. might take a shot at him. They don't seem to mind bringing in guys with a history of problems with front offices. But the fact that the leadership council on the Ravens didn't want him back would make me for one slow down and try to figure out what had happened. That's not a good sign. I wonder what Thomas'll do next.

 

Moss had a HOF career going in Minny without much trouble.  He was upset that they traded him and to the lowly Raiders, no less.  Had they traded him direct to NE (or any good team), there would hav been no "problem".

 

Dillon I covered.  Dillon was their best back ever.  Lewis was a bum.  At some point, Dillon pointed out the obvious.  That's hardly a chronic problem....

 

All the others on that "problem list", they couldn't help...

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

[nucci]

On 8/22/2020 at 11:22 AM, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

I'm down for the Ravens to deal with a distraction

I'm sure they'll be fine. Harbaugh is a great coach

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

get the popcorn ready!

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Rc2catch]

Crazy crazy stuff. 
I was hopeful another team would trade something low for him like Carolina or someone. I like that Baltimore stood their ground. Team over a talented player. 

[H2o]

41 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Well, I mean, if a guy is constantly being a jack*ss and becoming a distraction then what is it supposed to smell like? Smells like you cut the cancer from the locker room to me. 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Moss had a HOF career going in Minny without much trouble.  He was upset that they traded him and to the lowly Raiders, no less.  Had they traded him direct to NE (or any good team), there would hav been no "problem".

 

 

Yes, nobody is arguing that he was terrific in Minny, but he was let go partly because hewas perceived to starting to cause trouble and becoming a prima-donna.

 

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/2087027-so-why-did-vikings-trade-randy-moss

 

""Money had nothing to do with it," McCombs said. "The reason I traded him was because Randy had kind of lost his place in the locker room. He kind of lost his place with our other leaders on the team. As an owner of a sports team, when you sense that you got a player who loses his place in the locker room, regardless of what kind of talent he's got, you have to make a move. I made a move."

 

Problems were starting, and they continued in Oakland. Again, the fact that nobody believed in him the way they used to was shown by how very little N.E. had to pay for him. A 4th rounder.

 

Your last sentence is pure guesswork. Might have been true or not. But what was true after his Oakland stay he was at best a question mark. Oakland would surely have traded him to any other team if anyone had beaten that offer. Nobody did. 

 

However you spin this, Randy Moss was widely perceived as damaged goods when the Pats picked him up. Only in N.E. did he put himself on the line. Then after his last season with Belichick, putting up 1264 yards, he all but quit for everyone else.

 

He absolutely stands as a known risk for Belichick that worked out like gangbusters, and the locker room absolutely appears to be a large part of that.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Dillon I covered.  Dillon was their best back ever.  Lewis was a bum.  At some point, Dillon pointed out the obvious.  That's hardly a chronic problem....

 

 

 

So, "pointing out the obvious," isn't a problem in football locker rooms? Please, dude, it's a massive problem when it means criticizing the team and the front office.. Particularly for a guy whose last three years had seen a major dip in production. In Cincy, his YPA looked like this:  4.8, 4.3, 4.6, 4.6, and then suddenly 3.9, 4.2, 3.9.

 

Being a locker room lawyer/rebel is a huge problem, it means many teams won't even consider you. It means any team that picks you up is taking a risk. Which New England did, almost certainly because they felt their locker room could stand up to any pressure put on it.

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/07/11/corey-dillon-wishes-mend-fences-bengals/465732001/

 

“I am a grown man, I can admit when I’m wrong,” Dillon said. “I did some stuff that was not cool, OK? Not cool at all. But, hey, at the end of the day I got the end result that I wanted. That was to play on a stage and actually winning a Super Bowl. Do I wish it would have been with them? Absolutely. Absolutely. It didn’t work out that way. I don’t have no ill will toward nobody there.” He forced his way out there, and found a culture in New England. that got him to fit in.

 

And whoda thunk it, his YPA leapt up the next year to 4.7.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

All the others on that "problem list", they couldn't help...

 

 

 

No, that's not true, either. Ochocinco had been ungovernable at the end in Cincy, and he toed the line in Foxboro. He was too old to make a difference by that time, or maybe there was some kind of stylistic misfit, but he was happy in the locker room there in a way he hadn't been for ages.

 

Guys like Talib were brought in and cleaned up their act in N.E. He'd had tons of off-field issues in Tampa and again the Pats got a guy cheap because of that, and again that guy cleaned up his act.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1152361-nfl-rumors-bucs-must-trade-aqib-talib-and-draft-morris-claiborne-as-replacement

 

I already agreed with you that there were plenty that didn't work out, for various reasons. But equally, there were a number who they were able to get at a cut rate because of problems and then their culture got them to fit in and sometimes greatly benefit the Pats.

 

The Pats have had a very strong culture and it's helped them bring in guys who've had trouble elsewhere and fit them in. It seems we may have built the same kind of a sturdy, robust culture that may be able to help us in the same way.

 

 

 

I have no idea if Earl Thomas will be another guy the Pats will bring in. Possible, though.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Thurman#1

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

Dude must be a world-class jerk. Players usually stick together. To hear that fellow players are the primary pushers for his release is surprising.  

 

So bad that the Ravens would absorb that cap hit.  

 

Thomas' life is out of control and it's spilling over to his on-field performance and behavior.  There's something going on that isn't within any of the reporting here. 

[Rico]

Can’t wait to go to work tomorrow in Baltimore.

[aristocrat]

Good to see an afc team get weaker let’s hope that he goes to the nfc 

[Dragoon]

Doesn’t sound like a guy I’d want. He’s talented but you gotta be able to work and communicate as a team and this casts doubt to his ability to the later. 

[GETTOTHE50]

***** the ravens.

[Mr. WEO]

59 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Yes, nobody is arguing that he was terrific in Minny, but he was let go partly because hewas perceived to starting to cause trouble and becoming a prima-donna.

 

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/2087027-so-why-did-vikings-trade-randy-moss

 

""Money had nothing to do with it," McCombs said. "The reason I traded him was because Randy had kind of lost his place in the locker room. He kind of lost his place with our other leaders on the team. As an owner of a sports team, when you sense that you got a player who loses his place in the locker room, regardless of what kind of talent he's got, you have to make a move. I made a move."

 

Problems were starting, and they continued in Oakland. Again, the fact that nobody believed in him the way they used to was shown by how very little N.E. had to pay for him. A 4th rounder.

 

Your last sentence is pure guesswork. Might have been true or not. But what was true after his Oakland stay he was at best a question mark. Oakland would surely have traded him to any other team if anyone had beaten that offer. Nobody did. 

 

However you spin this, Randy Moss was widely perceived as damaged goods when the Pats picked him up. Only in N.E. did he put himself on the line. Then after his last season with Belichick, putting up 1264 yards, he all but quit for everyone else.

 

He absolutely stands as a known risk for Belichick that worked out like gangbusters, and the locker room absolutely appears to be a large part of that.

 

 

 

 

So, "pointing out the obvious," isn't a problem in football locker rooms? Please, dude, it's a massive problem when it means criticizing the team and the front office.. Particularly for a guy whose last three years had seen a major dip in production. In Cincy, his YPA looked like this:  4.8, 4.3, 4.6, 4.6, and then suddenly 3.9, 4.2, 3.9.

 

Being a locker room lawyer/rebel is a huge problem, it means many teams won't even consider you. It means any team that picks you up is taking a risk. Which New England did, almost certainly because they felt their locker room could stand up to any pressure put on it.

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/07/11/corey-dillon-wishes-mend-fences-bengals/465732001/

 

“I am a grown man, I can admit when I’m wrong,” Dillon said. “I did some stuff that was not cool, OK? Not cool at all. But, hey, at the end of the day I got the end result that I wanted. That was to play on a stage and actually winning a Super Bowl. Do I wish it would have been with them? Absolutely. Absolutely. It didn’t work out that way. I don’t have no ill will toward nobody there.” He forced his way out there, and found a culture in New England. that got him to fit in.

 

And whoda thunk it, his YPA leapt up the next year to 4.7.

 

 

 

 

No, that's not true, either. Ochocinco had been ungovernable at the end in Cincy, and he toed the line in Foxboro. He was too old to make a difference by that time, or maybe there was some kind of stylistic misfit, but he was happy in the locker room there in a way he hadn't been for ages.

 

Guys like Talib were brought in and cleaned up their act in N.E. He'd had tons of off-field issues in Tampa and again the Pats got a guy cheap because of that, and again that guy cleaned up his act.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1152361-nfl-rumors-bucs-must-trade-aqib-talib-and-draft-morris-claiborne-as-replacement

 

I already agreed with you that there were plenty that didn't work out, for various reasons. But equally, there were a number who they were able to get at a cut rate because of problems and then their culture got them to fit in and sometimes greatly benefit the Pats.

 

The Pats have had a very strong culture and it's helped them bring in guys who've had trouble elsewhere and fit them in. It seems we may have built the same kind of a sturdy, robust culture that may be able to help us in the same way.

 

 

 

I have no idea if Earl Thomas will be another guy the Pats will bring in. Possible, though.

Dillon was the Bengals best ever.  Never had under 1100 a year.  Your switching to YPC is meant to distract from that fact.  He talked himself into a better team.  Smart.

Trading Moss was a blunder obviously.  Should have gotten a better HC and kept the talent.