Jake Fromm: Controversial comments

[Prospector]

27 minutes ago, ChattanoogaBills said:

Your post is ignorant and biased at best. Shannon does a great job speaking on racial topics. Skip Bayless agrees with 99% of it. 

If you have never experienced racism how can you understand what black people go through.

I was told multiple times every year(by coaches and players who were black) of my college career that I played corner really well for being white. I had to fight through racial discrimination just to play a game that I was FAR better than those in front of me. I have seen racial discrimination first hand, but because I’m white, it probably doesn’t count in your book. 
 

My teammate and friend was pissed when a fellow student in our class said he speaks well. I asked him if that was any different than him saying I can play corner well because I’m white... he said it was different because there are different rules and things you can say. He was my friend, and I gave him crap about that whenever I could. But the bias is still there

Edited June 5, 2020 by WorstTEever81

[blacklabel]

On 6/4/2020 at 1:10 PM, HardyBoy said:

 

Not from first hand experience, but pretty sure the move is to put a Pam in as a Pat...you're doing it wrong

 

Pamb, with a B at the end. 

[Prospector]

2 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

Pamb, with a B at the end. 

No, 2 m’s

[blacklabel]

Just now, WorstTEever81 said:

No, 2 m’s

 

Shut...shut your mouth. You're coming off stupid. 

 

I'm coming off stupid?? You're wearing tuxedos for a job that requires you to clean toilets. 

 

 

Classic.

[Prospector]

4 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

Shut...shut your mouth. You're coming off stupid. 

 

I'm coming off stupid?? You're wearing tuxedos for a job that requires you to clean toilets. 

 

 

Classic.

Is that ketchup I taste?!

[blacklabel]

3 minutes ago, WorstTEever81 said:

Is that ketchup I taste?!

 

Alright, now the tuxedos seem a little ***** up. 

[Augie]

41 minutes ago, WorstTEever81 said:

I was told multiple times every year(by coaches and players who were black) of my college career that I played corner really well for being white. I had to fight through racial discrimination just to play a game that I was FAR better than those in front of me. I have seen racial discrimination first hand, but because I’m white, it probably doesn’t count in your book. 
 

My teammate and friend was pissed when a fellow student in our class said he speaks well. I asked him if that was any different than him saying I can play corner well because I’m white... he said it was different because there are different rules and things you can say. He was my friend, and I gave him crap about that whenever I could. But the bias is still there

 

A guy I consider to be a very good friend corrected me in a group text once. We were watching the same tennis match, and in the interview that followed I mentioned that “she is well spoken”. He told me some people would call that a racist comment. It was a compliment! One I would say about a white person who is also well spoken. Part of our problem is education. I gave in and said “OK, now I know, but I still don’t get it.”  I would not be offended if someone told me our son was well spoken, I’d say “thank you”. 

[Prospector]

10 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

Alright, now the tuxedos seem a little ***** up. 

Hahaha! That’s so funny, last time I heard that I fell off my dinosaur 

[Chicken Boo]

54 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

A guy I consider to be a very good friend corrected me in a group text once. We were watching the same tennis match, and in the interview that followed I mentioned that “she is well spoken”. He told me some people would call that a racist comment. It was a compliment! One I would say about a white person who is also well spoken. Part of our problem is education. I gave in and said “OK, now I know, but I still don’t get it.”  I would not be offended if someone told me our son was well spoken, I’d say “thank you”. 

 

Even though you're well meaning, that phrase was used in the past as, "You're so well spoken for a black man (or woman)."

 

Like, the shock and awe that a person of color isn't using ebonics and choosing to enunciate.  

 

It's real.  Blame racists for ruining, what could have been, a simple compliment.

[Mango]

3 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

Things have NOT changed. You cant have an environment where people are not allowed to apologize and to seek forgiveness.

 

I have an issue with this. Just because you seek forgiveness does not mean it has to be granted,  or should it be granted. Part of being sorry is being sorry for as long as you give a s——— about receiving forgiveness from the people you hurt. Part of being truly sorry is fully owning the consequences of your actions. That goes for being an alcoholic, screwing up at work, beating your wife, or saying something racist.

 

If Fromm is truly sorry he will have zero issue with the locker room not forgiving him. It’s the people on this board that are demanding forgiveness, because they aren’t really sorry for anything he said. 

[LB3]

16 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I have an issue with this. Just because you seek forgiveness does not mean it has to be granted,  or should it be granted. Part of being sorry is being sorry for as long as you give a s——— about receiving forgiveness from the people you hurt. Part of being truly sorry is fully owning the consequences of your actions. That goes for being an alcoholic, screwing up at work, beating your wife, or saying something racist.

 

If Fromm is truly sorry he will have zero issue with the locker room not forgiving him. It’s the people on this board that are demanding forgiveness, because they aren’t really sorry for anything he said. 

This right here is why I say never apologize for making a joke. He should have come out and said that it was a joke, as evidenced by the haha and left it at that. It would have been more genuine and he's just as likely to be canceled regardless. You'll never satisfy anyone who's determined to be aggrieved. ?‍♂️

[Mango]

1 minute ago, LB3 said:

This right here is why I say never apologize for making a joke. He should have come out and said that it was a joke, as evidenced by the haha and left it at that. It would have been more genuine and he's just as likely to be canceled regardless. You'll never satisfy anyone who's determined to be aggrieved. ?‍♂️

 

Wooosh. That went right over your head. 

[LB3]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

Wooosh. That went right over your head. 

No. It really didn't. 

[Rico]

12 minutes ago, LB3 said:

This right here is why I say never apologize for making a joke. He should have come out and said that it was a joke, as evidenced by the haha and left it at that. It would have been more genuine and he's just as likely to be canceled regardless. You'll never satisfy anyone who's determined to be aggrieved. ?‍♂️

Absolutely. As I said earlier, quoting Mick Jagger, "If you can't take a joke, it's just too f'n bad."  Now I want to play Some Girls.

[BillsDude]

Jokes are not allowed in this day and age. It's illegal, immoral and unethical. No, lol's, no rotfl,s, no lamo's, and certainly no haha's which are the worst of all. Fromm, you are guilty as charged. Only serious people who are choir boys are entitled to be in the nfl. Maybe you will learn to keep your hahas to yourself next time.

[MJS]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

 

I have an issue with this. Just because you seek forgiveness does not mean it has to be granted,  or should it be granted. Part of being sorry is being sorry for as long as you give a s——— about receiving forgiveness from the people you hurt. Part of being truly sorry is fully owning the consequences of your actions. That goes for being an alcoholic, screwing up at work, beating your wife, or saying something racist.

 

If Fromm is truly sorry he will have zero issue with the locker room not forgiving him. It’s the people on this board that are demanding forgiveness, because they aren’t really sorry for anything he said. 

Why should anyone on this board be sorry for what he said?

 

I don't really care what he said because it was a dumb joke. We aren't supposed to think twice when men in the NFL get suspended for just a few games for beating women, drunk driving, using drugs, etc., but if a guy makes a tame joke about suppressors and white elitists we are supposed to be up in arms?

 

Sorry, but I don't give a crap. I'd much rather see Ben Roethlisburger go to jail for rape, Tyreek Hill for beating his girlfriend, and Ray Lewis for practically murdering someone. And yes, also cops to pay for their crimes of killing unarmed African Americans.

 

Fromm's stupid text is meaningless. There are REAL things to be fighting for in America and Fromm's text should be at the very, very bottom of anyone's list.

[ChattanoogaBills]

6 hours ago, WorstTEever81 said:

I was told multiple times every year(by coaches and players who were black) of my college career that I played corner really well for being white. I had to fight through racial discrimination just to play a game that I was FAR better than those in front of me. I have seen racial discrimination first hand, but because I’m white, it probably doesn’t count in your book. 
 

My teammate and friend was pissed when a fellow student in our class said he speaks well. I asked him if that was any different than him saying I can play corner well because I’m white... he said it was different because there are different rules and things you can say. He was my friend, and I gave him crap about that whenever I could. But the bias is still there

Those were racist comments made about you. So that counts as a small sample. But you weren't discriminated against in that instance. Now if you weren't allowed to even compete at or play cornerback because your white would be discrimination. 

The well spoken comment is more opinionated. That seems like something black people up north would take offense with more than blacks from the south. I personally would never say anyone is well spoken as i expect that of anyone that speaks. 

 

[K-9]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

 

I have an issue with this. Just because you seek forgiveness does not mean it has to be granted,  or should it be granted. Part of being sorry is being sorry for as long as you give a s——— about receiving forgiveness from the people you hurt. Part of being truly sorry is fully owning the consequences of your actions. That goes for being an alcoholic, screwing up at work, beating your wife, or saying something racist.

 

If Fromm is truly sorry he will have zero issue with the locker room not forgiving him. It’s the people on this board that are demanding forgiveness, because they aren’t really sorry for anything he said. 

All Fromm can do is offer his contrition and ask for forgiveness. Being forgiven is not up to him. Will you be upset if he is forgiven by those who are in a position to do that? 

[Mango]

11 minutes ago, K-9 said:

All Fromm can do is offer his contrition and ask for forgiveness. Being forgiven is not up to him. Will you be upset if he is forgiven by those who are in a position to do that? 

No, of course I wouldn’t be upset if a guy forgives Fromm. I’m also not going to hold it against any player that wants out of that locker room. Both are understandable to me.

 

What isn’t understandable to me is the posts on this board (maybe not you) that imply that he apologized, POC shouldn’t be upset, and they should just move on. Which is what that post was responding to. 

[ChattanoogaBills]

7 hours ago, WorstTEever81 said:

Both skip and Shannon are clueless, political hacks. I’m glad that they have you fooled though. They need the ratings

Being born and raised in the south. I've witnessed the type racism that Shannon speaks on. If you think that Shannon is clueless about the racism he speaks on. Then that would best describe your opinion on that. 

I will admit when i moved further up north the racism was nowhere near as blatant. It would usually take black people to point it out to me. So that may be why you couldn't understand where Shannon is coming from. But that is blissful ignorance. 

I for one am glad that this has reached a boiling point. America should be more outraged about how George Floyd died than people kneeling for the national anthem imo.

Edited June 6, 2020 by ChattanoogaBills

[Bill from NYC]

6 hours ago, ChattanoogaBills said:

 

The well spoken comment is more opinionated. That seems like something black people up north would take offense with more than blacks from the south. I personally would never say anyone is well spoken as i expect that of anyone that speaks. 

 

Let's be clear

 

The term "well spoken," when used to describe a black person, is clearly a racist term.  The implication is that other black citizens are not very literate. The ironic part is that when this back handed compliment is heard, it will probably be uttered by a white liberal, trying to "prove" how open minded he or she is. Years ago, they even used the term "well dressed." I cringe when I hear s%#t like that; it really pisses me off. 

 

It still happens today folks. I see it all the time, even on this board, and even in political circles.

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=joe+biden+obama+is+clean+and+articulate&docid=607989819213087219&mid=E7083581CBC3AD55EABAE7083581CBC3AD55EABA&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

 

Some might want to excuse this. I for one do not.

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[TPS]

6 hours ago, K-9 said:

All Fromm can do is offer his contrition and ask for forgiveness. Being forgiven is not up to him. Will you be upset if he is forgiven by those who are in a position to do that? 

It's a good opportunity for Fromm (and the team) to "come to Buffalo and become the best version of you that you can be...."

 

[GregPersons]

11 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Let's be clear

 

The term "well spoken," when used to describe a black person, is clearly a racist term.  The implication is that other black citizens are not very literate. The ironic part is that when this back handed compliment is heard, it will probably be uttered by a white liberal, trying to "prove" how open minded he or she is. Years ago, they even used the term "well dressed." I cringe when I hear s%#t like that; it really pisses me off. 

 

It still happens today folks. I see it all the time, even on this board, and even in political circles.

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=joe+biden+obama+is+clean+and+articulate&docid=607989819213087219&mid=E7083581CBC3AD55EABAE7083581CBC3AD55EABA&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

 

Some might want to excuse this. I for one do not.

 

 

Thanks for saying this, Bill. Well articulated! ?

 

I'll go further. "Well spoken" and "articulate" also show a cluelessness to history from a white perspective. Why do African Americans speak differently than White Americans? The answer is obvious if we're even somewhat willing to admit our own history. Black people were not given formal education, including English language, for many generations. As a result, the languages developed parallel. 

 

White people insist that all other people speak their language as a default, with no consideration for the fact that not everybody was born into generations of English language education and training. And yet White people are not willing to do the same — not be willing to learn other accents, other languages. Not willing to do anything except lazily insist that everybody else come to them and meet their needs.

 

So not only is it just sort of a modern day outdated term and kind of clueless, if you actually think about it, it's just another of a billion examples of the ways that White America has tried to keep Blacks down instead of helping them up.

 

This has happened again and again and again. Sometimes, like now, in times of great cultural strife, White people will come to the aid of Black people. But mostly, in ordinary times, they are happy to accept the status quo and not question it. And in those times, individual White people might help individual Black people, but it is not a concerted effort in society to create a more equal & free world. It is always Black people agitating and protesting for rights, and White people being verrrrrrrrrrry reluctant to give even another inch. 

 

MLK warned about the white moderate being even more dangerous than the white racist. You're gonna see A LOT of that next week — you are going to see whites try VERY VERY VERY hard to put this in a box, give some kind of ornamental band-aid solution, and then try to "unify" and "move on."  Watch them try. Watch! 

[Commish]

Agree generally, but MLK referred to white moderates as a disappointment, not as dangerous:

 

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/060.html

 

[Turk71]

On 6/5/2020 at 12:12 AM, Turk71 said:

  

  To the people saying his text is being taken out of context. In what context would saying guns should be very expensive so only elite white people could afford them not be offensively racist?

  

 

On 6/5/2020 at 12:22 AM, Rob's House said:

 

In the context that it was clearly an innocuous joke.

 

On 6/5/2020 at 12:31 AM, Turk71 said:

 

 How was it 'clearly' an innocuous joke? 

 

22 hours ago, Rob's House said:

 

The "haha" at the end kind of gave it away.

   Just end any offensive sentence with 'haha' and you're covered? I remember when jokes tried to be funny. 

   

   ***** you Robs house, why r u such a dick haha. Clearly a joke, right?

  

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, K-9 said:

All Fromm can do is offer his contrition and ask for forgiveness. Being forgiven is not up to him. Will you be upset if he is forgiven by those who are in a position to do that? 

 

 

What is he asking forgiveness for?  Believing only certain white people should be able to own guns/silencers?  Would apologizing make him suddenly not hold that opinion?

 

Maybe you mean apologize for his closely held feelings being made public (i.e., getting caught spouting his true thoughts)?

 

I don't understand this type of thinking.  He is who he is.  These comments were made in 2019, not when he was a "kid".

Edited June 6, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[Beast]

Has he been executed yet?

[Doc]

10 hours ago, ChattanoogaBills said:

Those were racist comments made about you. So that counts as a small sample. But you weren't discriminated against in that instance. Now if you weren't allowed to even compete at or play cornerback because your white would be discrimination. 

The well spoken comment is more opinionated. That seems like something black people up north would take offense with more than blacks from the south. I personally would never say anyone is well spoken as i expect that of anyone that speaks.

 

Not sure where you are in the Fromm debate but in the same vein, what Fromm made was a racist joke.  He didn't discriminate/hasn't discriminated against anyone (that we know of since no one has come forward, and would have by now).

 

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Again, was he joking?

 

The "haha" suggests that.  And again no one has ever accused him of racism before.

[Happy]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

Has he been executed yet?

 

It does seem like it's the 11th hour.  This dumb joke, and it was an immature joke from over a year ago, wouldn't have been as big of a deal if today's current events had not happened.  I'll bet that girl wouldn't have posted the tweet, which I'm sure the Bills knew about but probably thought it was just a stupid joke by a 20 year old kid who showed no signs of being a racist, otherwise.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

What is he asking forgiveness for?  Believing only certain white people should be able to own guns/silencers?  Would apologizing make him suddenly not hold that opinion?

 

Maybe you mean apologize for his closely held feelings being made public (i.e., getting caught spouting his true thoughts)?

 

I don't understand this type of thinking.  He is who he is.  These comments were made in 2019, not when he was a "kid".

I’m not in a position to know what Fromm should apologize for, but I’d start with “all of it” if I had to start somewhere. More importantly, I’m not in a position to know why people should or shouldn’t accept his apology. That’s up to them as individuals. 
 

Fromm aside, I DO know that if we are really going to engender genuine, sustainable change as a society, then contrition, apology, and forgiveness are essential to process of transformation. 
 

Per the bold text, while 20 is no longer childhood, it isn’t exactly the age of wisdom, either. I’ve never met a 20 year old that had much of anything figured out about life and the world we live in. Far from it. That’s not an excuse for Fromm, so don’t go there. It’s me saying you should check your own files for the stupid, uninformed things you said and did at age 20. Things you may even have sought forgiveness for. 

[Turk71]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The "haha" suggests that.  And again no one has ever accused him of racism before.

Haha suggests joking? 

I suspect you are a despicable person, in fact I am absolutely convinced, haha. No one has ever accused me of racism either. Haha means I am only joking obviously. Haha.

[YoloinOhio]

Interesting 

 

 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

Haha suggests joking? 

I suspect you are a despicable person, in fact I am absolutely convinced, haha. No one has ever accused me of racism either. Haha means I am only joking obviously. Haha.

 

No offense taken. 

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Interesting 

 

 

Lorenzo is clearly racist. That’s how it works right?

[Turk71]

15 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Lorenzo is clearly racist. That’s how it works right?

You're clearly an idiot, right? I'm sure of it, you've been an idiot for many years now, right?

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

You're clearly an idiot, right? I'm sure of it, you've been an idiot for many years now, right?

?

[FireChans]

 

 

 

Tre liked the first Tweet. I’m guessing he’s still pissed.

[Gugny]

I feel terrible that Shaq Lawson still can't speak English.

[Mr. WEO]

37 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The "haha" suggests that.  And again no one has ever accused him of racism before.

 

 

So you can pretty much say anything you want, as long as you end it with a "ha ha", it can be viewed only as a joke!

 

"In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny . . . and I say . . . segregation today . . . segregation tomorrow . . . segregation forever.  ha ha"--George Wallace

 

“There's not enough troops in the army, to force the southern people to break down segregation and admit the (N-word) race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches.  ha ha."   Strom Thurmond

 

Those two were a regular Dixie Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis!! 

 

 

27 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’m not in a position to know what Fromm should apologize for, but I’d start with “all of it” if I had to start somewhere. More importantly, I’m not in a position to know why people should or shouldn’t accept his apology. That’s up to them as individuals. 
 

Fromm aside, I DO know that if we are really going to engender genuine, sustainable change as a society, then contrition, apology, and forgiveness are essential to process of transformation. 
 

Per the bold text, while 20 is no longer childhood, it isn’t exactly the age of wisdom, either. I’ve never met a 20 year old that had much of anything figured out about life and the world we live in. Far from it. That’s not an excuse for Fromm, so don’t go there. It’s me saying you should check your own files for the stupid, uninformed things you said and did at age 20. Things you may even have sought forgiveness for. 

 

Yeah, I never, at any point in my twenties, chatted with friends about white folks being armed over people of other races---and I'm comfortable assuming the vast majority of posters never did either.  We aren't talking about some "dumb" stuff that we later would be embarrassed about.  The discussion here is specific.

 

Do you think 2 weeks ago, 6 months ago or minutes after he texted his thoughts last year that he was apologetic for them?  No, of course not.  Why would he be?  He got caught and wants a paycheck and not to get his ass kicked.  So suddenly he's sorry he texts racist stuff to his friends.

 

He shared his thoughts with someone he trusted (whoops!!).  Instead of pretending he is sorry he had those thoughts, he should at least own up to them as being genuine.  He would have more credibility if he instead said to his teammates:  "yes, I said those things because I believe them to be true. Sorry of that upsets you but my thoughts on race haven't interfered with my ability to play football with African Americans.  in the future, I will strive to keep my thoughts to myself".

 

He should just own his views and THEN try to move on with his teammates.