Jake Fromm: Controversial comments

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

So you can pretty much say anything you want, as long as you end it with a "ha ha", it can be viewed only as a joke!

 

"In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny . . . and I say . . . segregation today . . . segregation tomorrow . . . segregation forever.  ha ha"--George Wallace

 

“There's not enough troops in the army, to force the southern people to break down segregation and admit the (N-word) race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches.  ha ha."   Strom Thurmond

 

Those two were a regular Dixie Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis!!

 

This is embarrassing, even for you.  No "haha."

[Gugny]

13 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He’s not on the team anymore so we can make fun of him right? I’m sure his feelings on Fromm resonate with a lot of Bills players. 

 

Two entirely different topics.  But you knew that.  You're a smart fella, Scott.  Common man.

 

Anyone who butchers our mother tongue like that is open game.

 

His feelings about Fromm are absolutely justified.  But again ... a whole nother ball o' wax.  I was just trying to lighten it up a little.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

Two entirely different topics.  But you knew that.  You're a smart fella, Scott.  Common man.

 

Anyone who butchers our mother tongue like that is open game.

 

His feelings about Fromm are absolutely justified.  But again ... a whole nother ball o' wax.  I was just trying to lighten it up a little.

 

I chalk it up to "Twitspeak."

[K-9]

36 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Yeah, I never, at any point in my twenties, chatted with friends about white folks being armed over people of other races---and I'm comfortable assuming the vast majority of posters never did either.  We aren't talking about some "dumb" stuff that we later would be embarrassed about.  The discussion here is specific.

 

Do you think 2 weeks ago, 6 months ago or minutes after he texted his thoughts last year that he was apologetic for them?  No, of course not.  Why would he be?  He got caught and wants a paycheck and not to get his ass kicked.  So suddenly he's sorry he texts racist stuff to his friends.

 

He shared his thoughts with someone he trusted (whoops!!).  Instead of pretending he is sorry he had those thoughts, he should at least own up to them as being genuine.  He would have more credibility if he instead said to his teammates:  "yes, I said those things because I believe them to be true. Sorry of that upsets you but my thoughts on race haven't interfered with my ability to play football with African Americans.  in the future, I will strive to keep my thoughts to myself".

 

He should just own his views and THEN try to move on with his teammates.

Per the bold, how do you know he didn’t attempt do that when he asked to address the team? Face it, he has to do it in a fashion YOU find acceptable otherwise is simply doesn’t suffice. Even though what transpires between him and his teammates or whoever else is none of your business. 
 

As for the rest of your post, way to miss the point entirely. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by K-9

[Rico]

12 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Two entirely different topics.  But you knew that.  You're a smart fella, Scott.  Common man.

 

Anyone who butchers our mother tongue like that is open game.

 

His feelings about Fromm are absolutely justified.  But again ... a whole nother ball o' wax.  I was just trying to lighten it up a little.

Kaep would not be pleased.

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Per the bold, how do you know he didn’t attempt do that when he asked to address the team? Face it, he has to do it in a fashion YOU find acceptable otherwise is simply doesn’t suffice. Even though what transpires between him and his teammates or whoever else is none of your business. 
 

As for the rest of your post, way to miss the point entirely. 

 

Do you think he told them that he's sorry that he blieves gun silencers should be reserved for elite white only?  

 

I don't care about his bogus contrition tour.  I don't have to deal with him.  I'm pretty sure every black guy on the Bills roster, since they know nothing else about this kid,  assume those texts were his true thoughts (they no doubt are) and don't really care about his apology---I'm sure they have all heard that type of talk countless times in their lives..  They are just going to show up for work like professionals.

29 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

This is embarrassing, even for you.  No "haha."

 

 

Come on doc!  You said that's how it works---add "ha ha" and that's the tipoff that the racist comments were only a joke ("get it??").  Why run away from that post?

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Come on doc!  You said that's how it works---add "ha ha" and that's the tipoff that the racist comments were only a joke ("get it??").  Why run away from that post?

 

Did those guys actually say "haha"?  Did they not follow up their words with racist actions? 

 

Yeah but other than that, great examples.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Doc

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Do you think he told them that he's sorry that he blieves gun silencers should be reserved for elite white only?  

 

I don't care about his bogus contrition tour.  I don't have to deal with him.  I'm pretty sure every black guy on the Bills roster, since they know nothing else about this kid,  assume those texts were his true thoughts (they no doubt are) and don't really care about his apology---I'm sure they have all heard that type of talk countless times in their lives..  They are just going to show up for work like professionals.

You seem to have me confused with those who want to some how defend Jake Fromm. 
 

I don’t know what he apologized for, but I hope he started with all of it, as I said previously. I don’t know how his message was received by his teammates and coaches nor will I pretend to know each and everyone of their reasons to accept an apology or not. I can’t project my outrage onto people I don’t know as easily as others I guess. 
 

I will reiterate one last time my entire theme in my posts in this thread:

 

If we are going to make meaningful and sustainable change as a society then contrition, apology, and forgiveness must be part of the cornerstones of that effort. It will be impossible otherwise. 
 

That’s really all I have to say in response to your posts. I will not get sucked into another WEO rabbit hole. 

[Mr. WEO]

26 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Did those guys actually say "haha"?  Did they not follow up their words with racist actions? 

 

Yeah but other than that, great examples.

so if I posted comments like that  followed by “ha ha” and had not follow up with “racist actions” (other than uttering those words you mean?),  things would be cool with everyone because they would know I was just joking?

21 minutes ago, K-9 said:

You seem to have me confused with those who want to some how defend Jake Fromm. 
 

I don’t know what he apologized for, but I hope he started with all of it, as I said previously. I don’t know how his message was received by his teammates and coaches nor will I pretend to know each and everyone of their reasons to accept an apology or not. I can’t project my outrage onto people I don’t know as easily as others I guess. 
 

I will reiterate one last time my entire theme in my posts in this thread:

 

If we are going to make meaningful and sustainable change as a society then contrition, apology, and forgiveness must be part of the cornerstones of that effort. It will be impossible otherwise. 
 

That’s really all I have to say in response to your posts. I will not get sucked into another WEO rabbit hole. 

apology and forgiveness won’t change anything (more words following words—it’s simply reading through the script: “but did he issue the sincere apology? Ok good to go”).   It’s changing the minds of people who think like Fromm that will bring change.

[K-9]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

apology and forgiveness won’t change anything (more words following words—it’s simply reading through the script: “but did he issue the sincere apology? Ok good to go”).   It’s changing the minds of people who think like Fromm that will bring change.

I know I said I wouldn’t get in yet another WEO rabbit hole, but I won’t let you bastardize my words, either. 
 

I have CLEARLY stated, REPEATEDLY throughout this thread, that “contrition, apology, and forgiveness” have to be a PART of the process for change moving forward. Nowhere did I suggest that apology and forgiveness are all it takes; as if actions aren’t the ultimate proof of change. 
 

And contrition and seeking forgiveness are integral in changing minds like Fromm. It’s a mandatory, small first step. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, ChattanoogaBills said:

Those were racist comments made about you. So that counts as a small sample. But you weren't discriminated against in that instance. Now if you weren't allowed to even compete at or play cornerback because your white would be discrimination. 

The well spoken comment is more opinionated. That seems like something black people up north would take offense with more than blacks from the south. I personally would never say anyone is well spoken as i expect that of anyone that speaks.

 

Oh, *****, I just said Shannon Sharpe was really eloquent in that Undisputed piece with Skip Bayless.  Bayless seemed moved to tears at several points.  I was myself.  I guess I'm offensive.

 

I don't expect everyone who speaks to be well-spoken much less eloquent, and I do think there's a point where people need to take a deep breath and ask if they're hurting themselves by being primed to feel insult too broadly.

[zow2]

F Shaq Lawson. he’s not part of the solution. he’s part of the problem. Fromm made a stupid comment. i’m sure Shaq has been perfect in his teens and never said something stupid or reverse racist. let the kid prove in his actions what type of person he is going forward .

[Buffalo716]

This is all totally getting out of hand

 

There is not one person here who never made a mistake in their life, let alone at 20 years old

 

And notice the entire text conversation was not included, there's lots information we're not privy too. A chick dropped a few lines of a private conversation

 

If he said n word should never be allowed to have guns, I'm dead serious

 

That would be a super racist thing that should not be forgiven and he should be cut

 

He actually put down white people also, because notice he said elite white people? That infers that he thinks non-elite white people shouldn't have silencers either

 

Which is like 99% of all whites

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Needle]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

This is all totally getting out of hand

 

There is not one person here who never made a mistake in their life, let alone at 20 years old

 

And notice the entire text conversation was not included, there's lots information we're not privy too. A chick dropped a few lines of a private conversation

 

If he said n word should never be allowed to have guns, I'm dead serious

 

That would be a super racist thing that should not be forgiven and he should be cut

 

He actually put down white people also, because notice he said elite white people? That infers that he thinks non-elite white people shouldn't have silencers either

 

Which is like 99% of all whites

 

None of this is to the betterment of black folks. Going on witch hunts for white people who might have said something racist? Talk about a fruitless way to go about life and one that has produced nothing in the past. BLM is a joke and just a hate filled rudderless ship.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

If we go through each player's heart and/or actions, we might have trouble filling out a roster. Played with buddy who could not stand Caucasians or Asians. But on the field he was possibly the hardest working guy and a great teammate. But there was no way I was going to hang out with him off the field. That said, Fromm appears to be a Redneck but I'm thinking he's not the only one in the league. He just wasn't mature to "Just Say No" to the "Send" button.

[Turbo44]

If shaq couldn’t have him as a teammate I’m glad he’s in Miami. Beane replaced him very nicely with guys who won’t wait til there contract years to perform. The reaction that bears monitoring is Tre’s, as he’s a integral part of this team

 

[brooklynbill]

19 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

If shaq couldn’t have him as a teammate I’m glad he’s in Miami. Beane replaced him very nicely with guys who won’t wait til there contract years to perform. The reaction that bears monitoring is Tre’s, as he’s a integral part of this team

 

As a black man and a fan of the bills for over 40 years, I am wretching reading some of these responses. Whataboutisms, false equivalents,denials and and straight up white apathy. White fear is real. Blacks have been oppressed for 400 years. Yet somehow we are still here. The minute whites have to deal with slightest level of discomfort you just melt down. Sorry, you comfort level has been deleted from my to do list. I wish you could spend a day in black skin. You would be appalled. Sorry, Its not my job to educate grown white folks. Last time I check there was one education system. I know YOUR history you are clueless and/or indifferent to mine.You can stay hibernating or you can choose to be woke. If you choose the latter you will eventually get run over like that 75 year old gentleman.

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

So does this apply to Tre White too? Or no because he's still on the team?

I wonder who to chose, a 5th round pick who projects to be no more than a back up QB or one of the best corners in the game...

Do you believe all of Riley Cooper's teammates accepted his apology and forgave him for what was a MUCH worse transgression?

[Penfield45]

1 hour ago, Needle said:

None of this is to the betterment of black folks. Going on witch hunts for white people who might have said something racist? Talk about a fruitless way to go about life and one that has produced nothing in the past. BLM is a joke and just a hate filled rudderless ship.

 

you bills fans really really need to watch out this season

 

don't bring this racist garbage into gameday or our team and the whole country will laugh at us. Buffalo is already on the map right now for the police brutality. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Penfield45 said:

 

you bills fans really really need to watch out this season

 

don't bring this racist garbage into gameday or our team and the whole country will laugh at us. Buffalo is already on the map right now for the police brutality. 

Every city is.

 

Hell, Philly bombed their own city. Buffalo will be fine.

[Penfield45]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Every city is.

 

Hell, Philly bombed their own city. Buffalo will be fine.

 

sure they will but at the moment they are NOT fine. the police in this city are a joke and need to be held accountable. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Penfield45

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Penfield45 said:

 

sure they will but at the moment they are NOT fine. the police in this city are a ***** joke and need to be held accountable. 

I think the events of the last week, and honestly decade should be sufficient to demonstrate that every police department needs to be held more accountable.

 

Still, I reject the assertion that Buffalo was ever NOT on the map IRT to the above. I'm not sure anyone ever held the opinion that the BPD was solely above reproach. Except maybe the BPD themselves.

Edited June 6, 2020 by FireChans

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

so if I posted comments like that  followed by “ha ha” and had not follow up with “racist actions” (other than uttering those words you mean?),  things would be cool with everyone because they would know I was just joking?

 

I never said "know," I said "suggest."  No one knows what others truly thing.  And I follow the saying "actions speak louder than words" and look to see if there's a pattern of behavior.  I also don't think people should be tarred and feathered after just 1 harmless transgression. 

 

47 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

If shaq couldn’t have him as a teammate I’m glad he’s in Miami. Beane replaced him very nicely with guys who won’t wait til there contract years to perform. The reaction that bears monitoring is Tre’s, as he’s a integral part of this team

 

Tre' will still perform as best as he can because he's looking for the big payday.  And if he leaves over this, that's his choice.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Doc

[Putin]

On 6/4/2020 at 12:26 PM, Bermuda Triangle said:

If true, move on from him.  

 

I'm sure that'll be an unpopular sentiment, but so be it.  

So we don’t believe in giving people second chances ? Or is it just for people who beat they’re wives ? 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, Turbo44 said:

If shaq couldn’t have him as a teammate I’m glad he’s in Miami. Beane replaced him very nicely with guys who won’t wait til there contract years to perform. The reaction that bears monitoring is Tre’s, as he’s a integral part of this team

 

Tre is a very good zone CB but he is not beyond being replaceable. I think Tre needs to stay off social media for a few weeks and reset. 

[Beast]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

This is all totally getting out of hand

 

There is not one person here who never made a mistake in their life, let alone at 20 years old

 

And notice the entire text conversation was not included, there's lots information we're not privy too. A chick dropped a few lines of a private conversation

 

If he said n word should never be allowed to have guns, I'm dead serious

 

That would be a super racist thing that should not be forgiven and he should be cut

 

He actually put down white people also, because notice he said elite white people? That infers that he thinks non-elite white people shouldn't have silencers either

 

Which is like 99% of all whites

 

 

He should not be forgiven and should be cut.

 

Just a question....are you of the opinion that if someone does a stint in jail for a crime they "did their time" and we should move on?

Edited June 6, 2020 by Beast

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

 

He should not be forgiven and should be cut.

 

Just a question....are you of the opinion that if someone does a stint in jail for a crime they "did their time" and we should move on?

Honest question, who are you to decide who is or is not forgiven? If Micah Hyde forgives him, that’s only up to Micah and no one else.

[thebandit27]

One thing is clear to me: there are a number of folks that conflate “forgive” with “condone”

[K-9]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

One thing is clear to me: there are a number of folks that conflate “forgive” with “condone”

That said, I condone forgiveness.

[Beast]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Honest question, who are you to decide who is or is not forgiven? If Micah Hyde forgives him, that’s only up to Micah and no one else.

 

Correct. On all accounts.

 

I'm getting at what the poster said that I quoted.

 

Are we seriously debating on a text message like this should ruin a career? Even if he did drop an N-bomb? When he was a 20 year old?

 

If that's the case I wonder how people feel about giving people a second chance when they did something that actually hurt someone? Say a 20 year old punches another and breaks their jaw? Should he be forgiven?

 

Who was that college player years ago...I think a running back, that sucker punched the player at the end of a game? (BTW, he was a black player and sucker punched a white player) I do believe he went on an played in the NFL. Shoukd he have not been allowed to play pro football?

 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Beast

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

There's probably a ton of teammates who don't want to be on the team with Jake Fromm.... and there's probably a few who are pissed at McDermott/Beane/Pegula for keeping him on the team. 

 

List them.

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

There's probably a ton of teammates who don't want to be on the team with Jake Fromm.... and there's probably a few who are pissed at McDermott/Beane/Pegula for keeping him on the team. 

Riley Cooper. Riley Cooper. Riley Cooper.

 

Stop running.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Correct. On all accounts.

 

I'm getting at what the poster said that I quoted.

 

Are we seriously debating on a text message like this should ruin a career? Even if he did drop an N-bomb? When he was a 20 year old?

 

If that's the case I wonder how people feel about giving people a second chance when they did something that actually hurt someone? Say a 20 year old punches another and breaks their jaw? Should he be forgiven?

 

Who was that college player years ago...I think a running back, that sucker punched the player at the end of a game? (BTW, he was a black player and sucker punched a white player) I do believe he went on an played in the NFL. Shoukd he have not been allowed to play pro football?

 

 

"Our capacity for forgiveness should only be exceeded by our desire for a more harmonious world."

[Beast]

 

 

Here it is...LaGarrette Blount.

 

Sucker punched a white player. 

 

Look at the caption....people found this funny!

 

800 and something people liked it and 100 something didn't.

 

Read the comments.

 

But people are crying that Frohm should be black balled!

 

LOL

 

The comments were under this video. My bad.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Beast

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Riley Cooper. Riley Cooper. Riley Cooper.

 

Stop running.

 

Even better: Richie Incognito.

[Buffalo716]

18 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

He should not be forgiven and should be cut.

 

Just a question....are you of the opinion that if someone does a stint in jail for a crime they "did their time" and we should move on?

It depends what the crime is.

 

A kiddy diddler or murder? **** No

 

A pot smoker or small time dealer? Of course

3 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

 

Here it is...LaGarrette Blount.

 

Sucker punched a white player. 

 

Look at the caption....people found this funny!

 

800 and something people liked it and 100 something didn't.

 

Read the comments.

 

But people are crying that Frohm should be black balled!

 

LOL

Didn't you just quote me saying he should be cut?

Edited June 6, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

I know I said I wouldn’t get in yet another WEO rabbit hole, but I won’t let you bastardize my words, either. 
 

I have CLEARLY stated, REPEATEDLY throughout this thread, that “contrition, apology, and forgiveness” have to be a PART of the process for change moving forward. Nowhere did I suggest that apology and forgiveness are all it takes; as if actions aren’t the ultimate proof of change. 
 

And contrition and seeking forgiveness are integral in changing minds like Fromm. It’s a mandatory, small first step. 

 

I will ask you yet again:  do you think he no longer holds the views he put forth in his texts?  If not, there is no value in apology or forgiveness because there is no real contrition.

 

You can only be truly contrite if you no longer believe the things that you are apologizing for.  I don't see a reason Fromm has changed his true thoughts--he is apologizing because he got caught, and no other reason.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Needle said:

None of this is to the betterment of black folks. Going on witch hunts for white people who might have said something racist? Talk about a fruitless way to go about life and one that has produced nothing in the past. BLM is a joke and just a hate filled rudderless ship.

 

To be fair, no one involved with the NFL or on an NFL team went on a witch hunt.  Someone who knew the guy put it out there for (??) whatever motivation.

 

I truthfully am not sure that "black lives matter" is much more than a slogan and a hashtag.  There's a loose network.   Wiki says "The phrase "Black Lives Matter" can refer to a Twitter hashtag, a slogan, a social movement, or a loose confederation of groups advocating for racial justice. As a movement, Black Lives Matter is decentralized, and leaders have emphasized the importance of local organizing over national leadership.^[30] Activist DeRay McKesson has commented that the movement "encompasses all who publicly declare that black lives matter and devote their time and energy accordingly."^[31]

 

The emphasis on local organizing over national leadership would align with your perception of "rudderless ship" - a decentralized network will seem that way.

 

I don't see the "joke" or the "hate filled" thing.  A joke is something one laughs at.  I can't personally laugh at people who are protesting unjust death at the hands of police. 

 

[Mr. WEO]

49 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I never said "know," I said "suggest."  No one knows what others truly thing.  And I follow the saying "actions speak louder than words" and look to see if there's a pattern of behavior.  I also don't think people should be tarred and feathered after just 1 harmless transgression. 

 

 

Tre' will still perform as best as he can because he's looking for the big payday.  And if he leaves over this, that's his choice.

 

That's the one we know about.  He doesn't have to act out on his beliefs for them to be reprehensible.

 

 

[Beast]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

It depends what the crime is.

 

A kiddy diddler or murder? **** No

 

A pot smoker or small time dealer? Of course

Didn't you just quote me saying he should be cut?

 

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. I think our wires may be crossed here.

 

What I was getting at is I don't believe a 21 year old should be cut from a team for a text message he sent when he was 20....even if he did use the N word. Unless it was in a violent manner like "I hate N" or something worse.

 

It's a word. A distasteful word that should not be used but these "gotcha" moments are getting out of hand.