Jake Fromm: Controversial comments

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

Hats off to all the Mods for keeping this on track this long, and the time and effort to make that happen. 

 

TBH, I think it should be props to y'all because most folks have been respectful and made it relatively easy so far.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

I truly hope Lorax becomes a coach For the Bills. 

 

I believe there was an interview with Heath Farwell who said Lorax has been sitting in on all their ST meetings and he's welcome in person whenever.

 

I wonder if they will set him up like Kyle Williams where they give him the equipment he needs to watch film during the season.

[YoloinOhio]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I believe there was an interview with Heath Farwell who said Lorax has been sitting in on all their ST meetings and he's welcome in person whenever.

 

I wonder if they will set him up like Kyle Williams where they give him the equipment he needs to watch film during the season.

Lorax said somewhere that he’s staying in shape in case there is an injury, he would come back - if needed - for playoffs only. I don’t have a link but it was a couple weeks ago. He originally didn’t think he would work out the same way as she he was playing but he ended up keeping the same routine. 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Lorax said somewhere that he’s staying in shape in case there is an injury, he would come back - if needed - for playoffs only. I don’t have a link but it was a couple weeks ago. He originally didn’t think he would work out the same way as she he was playing but he ended up keeping the same routine. 

 

Does Vegas have Super Bowl MVP odds? Maybe a strip sack turned TD. Throw in a blocked punt? 

 

Hey! A guy can dream!

 

I love the guy, and his sense of mature balance. 

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

Does Vegas have Super Bowl MVP odds? Maybe a strip sack turned TD. Throw in a blocked punt? 

 

Hey! A guy can dream!

 

I love the guy, and his sense of mature balance. 

I found the podcast where I heard it m. Apparently he originally stated it in an interview with Brad Gelber, which I don’t have 
 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

11 hours ago, K-9 said:

The examples are out there but that won’t satisfy anyone who doesn’t think systemic oppression exists. Unless you have someone saying out loud, “Yes, we’ve enacted these measures to oppress people.”, then the problem just isn’t real. As if actions aren’t and haven’t always been so telling. 

What’s wild is that if you read the legislative histories of many controversial laws, the racist intent is blatant.  In law school I went back and looked at the congressional debates and submissions in support of the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 and it’s all right there in the archives - congressmen pushing the bill as a means to stop “coked up Negroes” from assaulting white women, and in response to Mexicans on speed crossing the border to commit crimes, etc.  The drug laws haven’t just had a disparate racial impact - they had a largely racist intent.  (Note: it’s also clear from the legislative history that a big push for drug laws came from the pro-law and order crowd, who viewed the new legislation, signed into law by Nixon, as means to expand the authority of the federal police power.  Not a surprise, right?)

Edited June 8, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Lorax said somewhere that he’s staying in shape in case there is an injury, he would come back - if needed - for playoffs only. I don’t have a link but it was a couple weeks ago. He originally didn’t think he would work out the same way as she he was playing but he ended up keeping the same routine. 

 

Hey, if it worked for Marshawn...but I hope it doesn't come to that.  It was a "Hail Mary" kind of move for Seattle and it didn't work in the end

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Hey, if it worked for Marshawn...but I hope it doesn't come to that.  It was a "Hail Mary" kind of move for Seattle and it didn't work in the end

 

We did actually sign like - 3 players to replace him in a way.  Addison for pass rushing, Klein for LB, and Maketivich for teams.  

[Westside]

What Fromm and Brees said is mild to what Biden has said numerous times. Why is Biden given a pass? 

I don't Condon racism, but I don't believe what Brees said was racist. Fromm, that's another story. He's young and I hope he learns from it. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by westside2

[Coach Tuesday]

19 minutes ago, westside2 said:

What Fromm and Brees said is mild to what Biden has said numerous times. Why is Biden given a pass? 

I don't Condon racism, but I don't believe what Brees said was racist. Fromm, that's another story. He's young and I hope he learns from it. 

 

A) HIGHLY political post

 

B) The "whatabouts" are exhausting.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Exactly what I've been saying! Context and actions! Words are meaningless, people say stuff they don't mean all the time... it is not the true them.

 

I wanted to respond to this, and I decided to sleep on it because my thoughts were too muddled and what I have to say is important to me.

Full disclosure, my mom is a retired English professor.  She kept a card on her office door "What's a Four Letter Word for Intercourse?"

(lift up flap....TALK har har har har).  Like the rattle of a rattlesnake, that's fair warning: I'm the child of someone who thought that was hella funny.

 

"Words are meaningless"....Well, no, certainly as a blanket statement I can't agree there.  Words are powerful.  The ability to use words to encode meaning and transfer it person to person is one of the most powerful tools the human race has evolved.  (Though I believe animals communicate with each other far more specifically and fully than we think, but that's a different story)  And think about personal experience....most of us have at least one time when we worked our ass off and someone noticed and told us in well-chosen words.  Or we heard words, someone we're crazy about told us they feel the same way about us.  You're flying.  There's nothing like it on Earth.  Yes, words are powerful. 

 

I think I know what you mean, though.  Words are only part of what tell us who a person is.  We all know people who talk a great game, they're all equality, brotherhood, blah blah but when the rubber hits the road they don't walk the talk.  Then we know people who say some pretty marginal or even awful things, but again, when it's live, they got your back and you can count on them.  They will give you their best self, every time.  So give me someone who will help me out to the best of his or her power OTJ, who will teach and mentor and stand by me, who will just quietly do stuff that's needed in a time of trouble, over someone who will just blow all the right words at me then ghost me when I need them.  But still, if they're using words of prejudice or disparagement, words that dismiss the experience you and your peers live every day, it's hard to trust them. 

Sometimes that seeming paradox reflects that person kind of writing you out as an exception to their base beliefs.  But sometimes when you have that shared experience, that's a bridge to someone's heart, and they can be reached with words and come to see "hey, I was saying stuff I heard all my life, and it's not right." 

 

OK getting back to Jake Fromm, he said some banter-y stuff in what he thought was a private convo.  That's still, his idea of fun banter.  It still counts as potentially reflecting who he is, or part of who he is, IMO.  Should he be judged for it and thrown out for one instance - cut?  No, but it's understandably going to make people leary of him.   They're gonna be giving him the side eye, looking for clues.   On the other hand, are players like Shaq and Jamal Adams and Tre White out of line for dismissing his apology and saying stuff like "racists don't change"?  They're reflecting their life experience too, and they have a right to it.  They're also young guys, and young folks tend to be absolutists.  Old farts tend to develop a more nuanced view.

 

I think it's kind of telling that some here have been more harshly critical of those players for potentially "ruining" Fromm's life (when that hasn't happened yet and may never, depending upon what he does going forward) than of Fromm, for choosing to use those words in banter.  At least, having been around black boys and men in locker rooms all his life, one would hope he's developed more connection to understand that the world looks different to them; it's disheartening being so recent.  I don't think you have to have an advanced history degree to know that in Georgia, as recently as the middle of last century, armed white men systematically and repeatedly killed unarmed black men as a tool for keeping them "in line" or to see the news images from Charlottesville.

 

Anyway, I think I understand what you mean, and I disagree.  Words do matter. Words are powerful, impactful.  But words aren't the totality of who and what we are.  They need to be given context and put in perspective, along with how we treat people and how we behave when no one's watching.

[Westside]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

A) HIGHLY political post

 

B) The "whatabouts" are exhausting.

I know and understand. Black lives do matter to me, I hate racism and racist cops. I know they exist. My one wish would be everyone is treated fairly. Not based on race or political leanings. 

[brooklynbill]

17 hours ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

 

Thats right, I did conflate - can you believe it !  And guess what, I can conflate anything I want - what’s it to you ? Its a free country.  As for you, go ahead and perpetuate the outrage and be miserable - I don’t care.

 

You can continue to be stunned and outraged - hope it makes you feel better.  As for me, I’ll stick with my hard work and positive attitude, it’s worked for me.

 

Racism never goes away - you made that up about me  - fake news on your part.  If you work hard and don’t demand of others, then one is more likely to gain the favor of others / and I’ve seen that work time and time again. That’s my stance and I’m sticking to it. 

 

Millions of people around the world protesting?? You’re overlooking the hundreds of millions in the USA (or billions around the world) who ARE NOT PROTESTING and equally disgusted - we are the silent majority.

 

See, I was nice, I addressed all your so called questions and concerns.  

 

Go ahead, reply with all your repugnant name calling, how stunned you continue to be, and wish me and my family the ultimate agony.  Lol. 

 

 

 

 

Triggered much? Ahhh this oppression against hard working white males needs to stop. Cry me an ocean

Edited June 8, 2020 by brooklynbill

[brooklynbill]

17 hours ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

 

Thats right, I did conflate - can you believe it !  And guess what, I can conflate anything I want - what’s it to you ? Its a free country.  As for you, go ahead and perpetuate the outrage and be miserable - I don’t care.

 

You can continue to be stunned and outraged - hope it makes you feel better.  As for me, I’ll stick with my hard work and positive attitude, it’s worked for me.

 

Racism never goes away - you made that up about me  - fake news on your part.  If you work hard and don’t demand of others, then one is more likely to gain the favor of others / and I’ve seen that work time and time again. That’s my stance and I’m sticking to it. 

 

Millions of people around the world protesting?? You’re overlooking the hundreds of millions in the USA (or billions around the world) who ARE NOT PROTESTING and equally disgusted - we are the silent majority.

 

See, I was nice, I addressed all your so called questions and concerns.  

 

Go ahead, reply with all your repugnant name calling, how stunned you continue to be, and wish me and my family the ultimate agony.  Lol. 

 

 

 

 

Cant wait to see my NFL brothas kneeling this season with fist clenched high and hard. Guaranteed to happen. Some white players will join too. I will damn sure kneel at the next sporting event with fans that I attend.

[K-9]

17 hours ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

Racism never goes away - you made that up about me  - fake news on your part.  If you work hard and don’t demand of others, then one is more likely to gain the favor of others / and I’ve seen that work time and time again. That’s my stance and I’m sticking to it. 

Help me understand the sentence in bold text. Are you saying that if black people work harder and stop complaining so much that people will be nicer to them and the racism they experience will go away? 

[brooklynbill]

17 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Help me understand the sentence in bold text. Are you saying that if black people work harder and stop complaining so much that people will be nicer to them and the racism they experience will go away? 

It's codespeak. Basically shut up and dribble. When I had the audacity to call him out, he reached into the playbook  to deflect and pivot.

Edited June 8, 2020 by brooklynbill

[brooklynbill]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, to start with, I'd like to hear a little more about this statistic. 

 

Can you provide a bit more detail about this - source, when, where, that kind of thing?

 

 

Yes I too would love to see the double blind randomized study that you conducted in the black community. You studied 24 million blacks but left me, my family and most of friends out. I feel slighted.

Edited June 8, 2020 by brooklynbill

[oldmanfan]

Fromm is a fairly young kid that said something really stupid.  His relative youth should not be a shield to excuse it, rather it should emphasize the need for him to keep quiet and lean from his mistakes.  Leaders in the clubhouse, or guys like Zo who are still associated with the team, will no doubt sit down with the kid and explain why his comments were so stupid.  And he'll learn or he won't.  If he doesn't his football career is over.  

[Bangarang]

Has Fromm been released and arrested yet?

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Has Fromm been released and arrested yet?

Sentenced to the death penalty. Lethal injection. Big thing about it.

[K-9]

26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Fromm is a fairly young kid that said something really stupid.  His relative youth should not be a shield to excuse it, rather it should emphasize the need for him to keep quiet and lean from his mistakes.  Leaders in the clubhouse, or guys like Zo who are still associated with the team, will no doubt sit down with the kid and explain why his comments were so stupid.  And he'll learn or he won't.  If he doesn't his football career is over.  

I’ve been saying this represents a great opportunity for Fromm and his teammates to become real catalysts for change. Not to get all biblical as that’s never been my thing, but Saul persecuted countless Christians before (literally, according to the myth) seeing the light, becoming Paul and, well, the rest is history. 

[wppete]

13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I believe there was an interview with Heath Farwell who said Lorax has been sitting in on all their ST meetings and he's welcome in person whenever.

 

I wonder if they will set him up like Kyle Williams where they give him the equipment he needs to watch film during the season.

Really hope so. And also Kyle Williams. Apart from how they played on the field and their knowledge of the Xs and Os these men are men of substance. When Lorax speak he speaks the truth. Very impressive and so is  Kyle. 

[Jauronimo]

2 hours ago, westside2 said:

What Fromm and Brees said is mild to what Biden has said numerous times. Why is Biden given a pass? 

I don't Condon racism, but I don't believe what Brees said was racist. Fromm, that's another story. He's young and I hope he learns from it. 

Are you suggesting Fromm should run for president?

[Westside]

10 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Are you suggesting Fromm should run for president?

I'll bet his past is cleaner than either candidate. Lol

[billsintaiwan]

Matt Barkely and Davis Webb must secretly be somewhat pleased. Also they are probably double-checking every text message they've ever sent. 

[Westside]

1 hour ago, westside2 said:

I'll bet his past is cleaner than either candidate. Lol

C'mon nickelcity. It was a joke. Pretty good one too!?

[Billl]

1 hour ago, billsintaiwan said:

Matt Barkely and Davis Webb must secretly be somewhat pleased. Also they are probably double-checking every text message they've ever sent. 

I’ll bet they already know whether or not they’ve sent white supremacist texts or used the n-word.

[thebandit27]

20 minutes ago, Billl said:

I’ll bet they already know whether or not they’ve sent white supremacist texts or used the n-word.

Yeah, but have they ever made an insensitive joke that someone could easily misinterpret as racist? Because even if that’s not what Fromm meant, that’s the danger of declaring him an unabashed racist. 

[iinii]

The beauty of digital fingerprints......

[Sherlock Holmes]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I wanted to respond to this, and I decided to sleep on it because my thoughts were too muddled and what I have to say is important to me.

Full disclosure, my mom is a retired English professor.  She kept a card on her office door "What's a Four Letter Word for Intercourse?"

(lift up flap....TALK har har har har).  Like the rattle of a rattlesnake, that's fair warning: I'm the child of someone who thought that was hella funny.

 

"Words are meaningless"....Well, no, certainly as a blanket statement I can't agree there.  Words are powerful.  The ability to use words to encode meaning and transfer it person to person is one of the most powerful tools the human race has evolved.  (Though I believe animals communicate with each other far more specifically and fully than we think, but that's a different story)  And think about personal experience....most of us have at least one time when we worked our ass off and someone noticed and told us in well-chosen words.  Or we heard words, someone we're crazy about told us they feel the same way about us.  You're flying.  There's nothing like it on Earth.  Yes, words are powerful. 

 

I think I know what you mean, though.  Words are only part of what tell us who a person is.  We all know people who talk a great game, they're all equality, brotherhood, blah blah but when the rubber hits the road they don't walk the talk.  Then we know people who say some pretty marginal or even awful things, but again, when it's live, they got your back and you can count on them.  They will give you their best self, every time.  So give me someone who will help me out to the best of his or her power OTJ, who will teach and mentor and stand by me, who will just quietly do stuff that's needed in a time of trouble, over someone who will just blow all the right words at me then ghost me when I need them.  But still, if they're using words of prejudice or disparagement, words that dismiss the experience you and your peers live every day, it's hard to trust them. 

Sometimes that seeming paradox reflects that person kind of writing you out as an exception to their base beliefs.  But sometimes when you have that shared experience, that's a bridge to someone's heart, and they can be reached with words and come to see "hey, I was saying stuff I heard all my life, and it's not right." 

 

OK getting back to Jake Fromm, he said some banter-y stuff in what he thought was a private convo.  That's still, his idea of fun banter.  It still counts as potentially reflecting who he is, or part of who he is, IMO.  Should he be judged for it and thrown out for one instance - cut?  No, but it's understandably going to make people leary of him.   They're gonna be giving him the side eye, looking for clues.   On the other hand, are players like Shaq and Jamal Adams and Tre White out of line for dismissing his apology and saying stuff like "racists don't change"?  They're reflecting their life experience too, and they have a right to it.  They're also young guys, and young folks tend to be absolutists.  Old farts tend to develop a more nuanced view.

 

I think it's kind of telling that some here have been more harshly critical of those players for potentially "ruining" Fromm's life (when that hasn't happened yet and may never, depending upon what he does going forward) than of Fromm, for choosing to use those words in banter.  At least, having been around black boys and men in locker rooms all his life, one would hope he's developed more connection to understand that the world looks different to them; it's disheartening being so recent.  I don't think you have to have an advanced history degree to know that in Georgia, as recently as the middle of last century, armed white men systematically and repeatedly killed unarmed black men as a tool for keeping them "in line" or to see the news images from Charlottesville.

 

Anyway, I think I understand what you mean, and I disagree.  Words do matter. Words are powerful, impactful.  But words aren't the totality of who and what we are.  They need to be given context and put in perspective, along with how we treat people and how we behave when no one's watching.

Well, when you put together words in this context they have powerful meaning, so bravo, standing ovation on your part Hapless. 

 

I was quick to make a blanket statement that obviously is incorrect in haste...

 

What I really mean is that people shouldn't let other people's negativity and hate affect their being or well-being or they are giving those people power they do not deserve. I know it is easier said than done but you can take back the power by letting words be meaningless when they are negative.

 

You obviously proved that words have immense power, but when we let those who wish to divide us and bring hate to our hearts they hold all the power and we let them do that by giving them that power.

[Just Joshin']

22 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

A class act and a voice of reason.  I hope he stays with the Bills in any capacity.

[brooklynbill]

6 hours ago, FireChans said:

Sentenced to the death penalty. Lethal injection. Big thing about it.

White dudes just cant catch a break with this justice system that is so rigged against them.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, brooklynbill said:

White dudes just cant catch a break with this justice system that is so rigged against them.

That’s why Jake Fromm needs to be charged and arrested. Worst case scenario, life in prison.

[Rico]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That’s why Jake Fromm needs to be charged and arrested. Worst case scenario, life in prison.

200 hours of Al Sharpton speeches.

[Happy]

5 minutes ago, Rico said:

200 hours of Al Sharpton speeches.

 

Wouldn't that be cruel and unusual punishment?  You can barely understand what he's trying to say.

[Rico]

3 minutes ago, Happy said:

 

Wouldn't that be cruel and unusual punishment?  You can barely understand what he's trying to say.

I can hear him loud and clear. Especially loud.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, brooklynbill said:

Cant wait to see my NFL brothas kneeling this season with fist clenched high and hard. Guaranteed to happen. Some white players will join too. I will damn sure kneel at the next sporting event with fans that I attend.

 

You're a Brave Man.  You couldn't pay me to voluntarily place a body part or clothing other than shoesoles in contact with a stadium floor surface

[Ralonzo]

50 pages! Do you know what that means?

 

Congratulations! You get a bottle, and you get a bottle, and you get a bottle!!

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

50 pages! Do you know what that means?

 

Congratulations! You get a bottle, and you get a bottle, and you get a bottle!!

 

 

If you actually read those 50 pages, you would see that predominantly, they consist of people with rather different views trying pretty hard to talk to each other and stay civil.

 

In that context, your .gif is about as useful as t*ts on a boar hog

[Mr. K]

I think its on the team to make the choice. I wouldnt argue cutting him but if the locker supports him staying on the team it is what it is and I hope it benefits him in the long run.