Jake Fromm: Controversial comments

[BillsFan692]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Tre, and every other black player on the team, is the aggrieved party.  And rightfully so.  When it comes to racism, they shouldn't have to accept an apology because the coaching staff says they should toe the party line. That is really gross.  

They dont "have" to do anything. I dont "have" to go to work tomorrow but if I want to keep my job I probably should.

 

Cant let a cancer divide the locker room because of some national political issues.

 

Thats BS anyways if Tre really wants to fight for the cause he should be out in the streets (day time, peacefully) marching along side all them white kids black mids brown kids and being part of the solution...

 

Not Twitter warring against his own teammates and coaches.

 

Tres twitter bull#### been going on since before the national race politics began so I dont think it can be dismissed.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

8 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Tre, and every other black player on the team, is the aggrieved party.  And rightfully so.  When it comes to racism, they shouldn't have to accept an apology because the coaching staff says they should toe the party line. That is really gross.  

Did this happen? Genuinely just asking. If so, then I agree with you that's not right. But all I've seen thus far about the meeting was that the coaches felt it was the players who accepted it and are taking a wait and see approach on Fromm, or am I mistaken? 

[BillsFan692]

Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Did this happen? Genuinely just asking. If so, then I agree with you that's not right. But all I've seen thus far about the meeting was that the coaches felt it was the players who accepted it and are taking a wait and see approach on Fromm, or am I mistaken? 

Thats what we are discussing because 2 hours later tre re-tweeting anti-fromm "we dont accept your apology" BS from Tyler Locket and Richard Sherman

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, BillsFan692 said:

They dont "have" to do anything. I dont "have" to go to work tomorrow but if I want to keep my job I probably should.

 

Cant let a cancer divide the locker room because of some national political issues.

 

Thats BS anyways if Tre really wants to fight for the cause he should be out in the streets (day time, peacefully) marching along side all them white kids black mids brown kids and being part of the solution...

 

Not Twitter warring against his own teammates and coaches.

 

Tres twitter bull#### been going on since before the national race politics began so I dont think it can be dismissed.

 

That's right, boy, shut up and play football! As a white man, I find what he said only mildly racist. Therefore, you as a black man should accept his apology and move on! And if you don't agree to play football with the racist, you are off the team!  

 

Now let me ask you: you really think Tre should have to accept that racist behavior to continue to play football? You really think you are on the right side of that dispute? 

[BillsFan692]

And how is "I accept no ones apology and leave no room for forgiveness" even a good strategy for the cause??

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

That's right, boy, shut up and play football! As a white man, I find what he said only mildly racist. Therefore, you as a black man should accept his apology and move on! And if you don't agree to play football with the racist, you are off the team!  

 

Now let me ask you: you really think Tre should have to accept that racist behavior to continue to play football? You really think you are on the right side of that dispute? 

I believe in order for the movement to succeed room for apologies and forgiveness is tantamount.

 

If we close the doors to letting people apologize and deny them the opportunity for forgiveness then what kind of place are we heading????

 

 

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

They dont "have" to do anything. I dont "have" to go to work tomorrow but if I want to keep my job I probably should.

 

Cant let a cancer divide the locker room because of some national political issues.

 

Thats BS anyways if Tre really wants to fight for the cause he should be out in the streets (day time, peacefully) marching along side all them white kids black mids brown kids and being part of the solution...

 

Not Twitter warring against his own teammates and coaches.

 

Tres twitter bull#### been going on since before the national race politics began so I dont think it can be dismissed.

Good on you for telling these black men how they should act, where they should act, and when they should act.  Clearly you know more about what it’s like living as a black man in America than they do.

[BillsFan692]

Also if we not accept jake fromm apology why we accept Josh Allens?? Just saying I hope Tre aint headed there next.

Just now, Billl said:

Good on you for telling these black men how they should act, where they should act, and when they should act.  Clearly you know more about what it’s like living as a black man in America than they do.

Hey when you got no real argument just call me racist

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

And how is "I accept no ones apology and leave no room for forgiveness" even a good strategy for the cause??

I believe in order for the movement to succeed room for apologies and forgiveness is tantamount.

 

If we close the doors to letting people apologize and deny them the opportunity for forgiveness then what kind of place are we heading????

 

 

 

That's fair. These are complicated situations.  What I don't want, however, is for my fandom of the team, and what I think is best for the product on the field, to be more important than today's political climate. When you mentioned the "bickering bills," I think it revealed that this impetus is too motivated by "what's best for the team" and not enough about "what's best for society." 

[Billl]

Just now, BillsFan692 said:

Also if we not accept jake fromm apology why we accept Josh Allens?? Just saying I hope Tre aint headed there next.

Hey when you got no real argument just call me racist

If the hood fits...

[thebandit27]

27 minutes ago, Billl said:

He didn’t do it in college, and he didn’t do it when she (same woman) accused him of abusing his kid years later.  She now has no custody, and he’s got full custody of all 4 of their kids.  

Interesting point you bring up about pleading guilty back in college.  A poor black kid from rural Georgia was accused of choking a woman.  He had two choices.  Plead guilty and leave school or plead innocent and risk going to prison.  He couldn’t afford to hire an attorney, so he decided he couldn’t risk it.  So now, people ignorant to the situation call him scum for the rest of his life over a false accusation.

 

And people wonder why these men kneel.

Hill’s justification of 2014 was “yeah well I may have bruised you but I didn’t hit you”. He was literally recorded telling the same woman “you need to be afraid of me too”.

 

That you’re in here justifying choking a pregnant woman and later telling her she needs to be afraid of him is insane. 
 

And for the record, he was absolutely NOT exonerated in the 2019 incident—the police didn’t have enough evidence to determine who committed a crime because Espinal didn’t cooperate—I wonder why.
 

Oh, and he’s also had two other run-ins for abuse, battery, and neglect. I am risking thread-jacking so I’ll close by saying that I don’t understand how anyone can see an organization that also gave Frank Clark $20M and drafted Kareem Hunt (who’d still be on the team sans video evidence) and be confident enough to believe the “he didn’t do it” version of events regarding Hill.

Edited June 5, 2020 by thebandit27

[Billl]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

Hill’s justification of 2014 was “yeah well I may have bruised you but I didn’t hit you”. He was literally recorded telling the same woman “you need to be afraid of me too”.

 

That you’re in here justifying choking a pregnant woman and later telling her she needs to be afraid of him is insane. 
 

And for the record, he was absolutely NOT exonerated in the 2019 incident—the police didn’t have enough evidence to determine who committed a crime. 
 

Oh, and he’s also had two other run-ins for abuse, battery, and neglect. I am risking thread-jacking so I’ll close by saying that I don’t understand how anyone can see an organization that also gave Frank Clark $20M and drafted Kareem Hunt (who’d still be on the team sans video evidence) and be confident enough to believe the “he didn’t do it” version of events regarding Hill.

He was given full custody of the kids.

 

The rest of the recording you referenced literally includes her acknowledging that she lied the first time.

[Bookie Man]

2 hours ago, Protocal69 said:

Big difference bro. I’m Black and though I may not think like the majority of us a lot of the time, I feel like Josh saying ‘If It Ain’t White It Ain’t Right, how is that any different than a black person like myself saying "Once you go Black,  You Never Go Back" There is nothing wrong in saying somethings in jess in a playful manor. What Fromm said crossed the line cause not only did he include Race into it he also included Social Class to basically say, if you are not White and Privileged then you should not own guns. That to me that is basic slave master mentality. 
 

That’s speaks to me not only how he views himself but how he views people not like him. I would cut him yesterday if not for the optics alone. I love Josh Allen and I try to look at context in a situation , which with Josh I looked at the person in totality and took his age and other factors like things I read about him being a good teammate and tried to put myself in his shoes and I felt comfortable in giving him the benefit of the doubt and Josh has been nothing but great On and OFF the field, BUT in light of the Fromm situation the LAST thing you want to have is the optics of the BILLS organization be comfortable with drafting White racist QB’s and for that reason alone like I said I would have cut Fromm yesterday.

Yes my stepfather is black and he would say that "once you black, you never go back" thing to me and my brothers all the time haha.  And we would always throw inappropriate jokes around to each other. And I have an Asian friend who jokes that Asians are superior because they are smarter and I have a black friend who jokes that blacks are superior because they're more gifted athletically, survival of the fittest. And I'm mixed with a lot of things, so I'm just like whatever you guys say. If some of our group texts got out, idk what would happen, the universe might implode. But neither one of those guys has a racist bone in their body. So perhaps that's why I'm not ready to jump on the kid yet, without knowing the whole story. But I feel where you're coming from and I respect your stance on the matter.

[teef]

@Bill, i think it's time to take a step back bro.  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

20 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

Thats what we are discussing because 2 hours later tre re-tweeting anti-fromm "we dont accept your apology" BS from Tyler Locket and Richard Sherman

I did see that, but the notion that the Bills coaching staff is somehow trying to "force" the team to take a company line is what I never saw

[NoHuddleKelly12]

24 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

And how is "I accept no ones apology and leave no room for forgiveness" even a good strategy for the cause??

I believe in order for the movement to succeed room for apologies and forgiveness is tantamount.

 

If we close the doors to letting people apologize and deny them the opportunity for forgiveness then what kind of place are we heading????

 

 

^^^^This. 

[ProcessYaDigg]

2 hours ago, condor1 said:

Jake's solution to this ? When the games begin, take a knee during the anthem.

When?  cuz he won't see the field this year.

[TigerJ]

First: the tweet - it was stupid.  Fromm needs to be smarter about what he puts out there, and he needs to connect in positive ways to the black community and culture that is part of the NFL.

 

Second: the reaction that Buffalo should dump him - If the US tried to get rid of every racist in the country or deny them the means to make a living, it would make the upheaval caused by COVID-19 look like a Sunday walk in the park.  Once we call attention to racist language and behavior, I think the next step is to make an attempt to get the perpetrator to change his or her thinking.  If he or she refuses to rethink their behavior and the factors that went into it, then maybe you consider moving them to the side and proceeding without them.  Leslie Frasier referred to this in his comments yesterday.  

[T master]

I think it was just a young person in a high profile position learning that he needs to choose his words & actions very carefully because it can come back to bite you ! 

 

I would hope that his mind set isn't what the text has portrayed him as . We all as young people ( i know i have) done & said some pretty stupid things before we grew up enough to know that our words carry more consequences yet after those words come out it's to late by that point .

 

Some never learn that lesson . I hope he has learned from this mistake !!

 

 

[Tatonka68]

Those who have never said or done anything ignorant or something they regret can judge him. Is this stupid thing to say YUP. Should we burn him at the stake, NO.

 

[LB3]

28 minutes ago, teef said:

@Bill, i think it's time to take a step back bro.  

You missed an L.

 

 

Does anyone know if Tre's Twitter background has always been LSU or if he changed it back recently?

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, LB3 said:

You missed an L.

 

 

Does anyone know if Tre's Twitter background has always been LSU or if he changed it back recently?

Always 

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, LB3 said:

You missed an L.

 

 

Does anyone know if Tre's Twitter background has always been LSU or if he changed it back recently?

Tre is fired up due to current events. Come TC, it won’t be a big deal that Fromm is there with the third team.

 

Riley Cooper stuck around and his event was far worse imo.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

11 minutes ago, LB3 said:

You missed an L.

 

 

Does anyone know if Tre's Twitter background has always been LSU or if he changed it back recently?

 

They were also in the national title game - i could see him changing it specifically for that as well.

[K-9]

54 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

And how is "I accept no ones apology and leave no room for forgiveness" even a good strategy for the cause??

I believe in order for the movement to succeed room for apologies and forgiveness is tantamount.

 

If we close the doors to letting people apologize and deny them the opportunity for forgiveness then what kind of place are we heading????

 

 

That’s an interesting point about forgiveness. It’s the crux of the entire movement, imo. Without it, we can’t move forward as a society. Especially when it comes to young people. 
 

Unfortunately, I get the feeling some will castigate Tre White if he does end up accepting Fromm’s apology. 

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea... I just wonder if we'll see that. Tre White, one of the Bills best players(if not the best) and leaders has made his feelings known.... if other leaders and teammates follow suit then they'd be better off just releasing him. 

 

Getting out infront of this now rather than waiting until it's too late...

Too many people selling Tre White short on this issue, imo. 

[NewEra]

56 minutes ago, Billl said:

He was given full custody of the kids.

 

The rest of the recording you referenced literally includes her acknowledging that she lied the first time.

Oh man. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, FireChans said:

Tre is fired up due to current events. Come TC, it won’t be a big deal that Fromm is there with the third team.

 

Riley Cooper stuck around and his event was far worse imo.

 

At the end of the day - if we truly don't believe people can change.  Then whats this all for?  

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

That’s an interesting point about forgiveness. It’s the crux of the entire movement, imo. Without it, we can’t move forward as a society. Especially when it comes to young people. 
 

Unfortunately, I get the feeling some will castigate Tre White if he does end up accepting Fromm’s apology. 

Too many people selling Tre White short on this issue, imo. 

 

I think liking tweets and having a full heart to heart discussion with a teammate are a big difference.  

[K-9]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

At the end of the day - if we truly don't believe people can change.  Then whats this all for?  

Another good point here. We can’t go around demanding change and then rejecting it when people attempt it. 

[JESSEFEFFER]

16 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

This is where I'm at.

 

Is this even a conversation if Fromm was a 7th round pick and a LB? 

Tyrel Dodson?

[Irv]

If the league doesn't toss him he will be murdered by his O-line's "look out" blocks. 

[Pasaluki]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

If Fromm were selected in the first round, would you feel differently about how the Bills should treat this incident?

 

EDIT: Here’s a good reason for keeping him: the team accepted Fromm’s request to address the team and apologize yesterday, the players accepted the apology, and they want to put it behind them as a group. If that’s ok with his teammates and coaches, why shouldn’t it be ok for the rest of us?

 

To point 1: yes I would. The tolerance for insolence for a 1st round pick is much higher. To be drafted in the 1st means that the team believes that the talent of the player can make a huge difference.  Like it or not players are not treated equally based on draft status. But no-one mourns for a 6th round LB being cut except perhaps this board. If it was up to this board Christian Wade and the CFL receiver would be in the starting lineup. 

 

Players are cut and forgotten and many never get a second chance. Others like Nate Peterman get a million chances to fail.

 

To your second point:

I'm white and I'm not personally offended by what Fromm said so he doesn't owe me an apology. But some black players are offended including our all world cornerback. A player like Tre White is worth 100 Jake Fromms. People saying Tre is being a diva obviously care more about other things than the team winning games. 

They are willing to risk alienating the best player on the team for a potential backup quarterback.

Even if you disagree with him, we don't win games outright without Tre White. We don't go to the playoffs without him. 

[K-9]

Just now, Irv said:

If the league doesn't toss him he will be murdered by his O-line's "look out" blocks. 

Is Tre gonna go all Troy Vincent on his ass?

[Irv]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Is Tre gonna go all Troy Vincent on his ass?

 

JP  - LOOK OUT!

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Pasaluki said:

 

To point 1: yes I would. The tolerance for insolence for a 1st round pick is much higher. To be drafted in the 1st means that the team believes that the talent of the player can make a huge difference.  Like it or not players are not treated equally based on draft status. But no-one mourns for a 6th round LB being cut except perhaps this board. If it was up to this board Christian Wade and the CFL receiver would be in the starting lineup. 

 

Players are cut and forgotten and many never get a second chance. Others like Nate Peterman get a million chances to fail.

 

To your second point:

I'm white and I'm not personally offended by what Fromm said so he doesn't owe me an apology. But some black players are offended including our all world cornerback. A player like Tre White is worth 100 Jake Fromms. People saying Tre is being a diva obviously care more about other things than the team winning games. 

They are willing to risk alienating the best player on the team for a potential backup quarterback.

Even if you disagree with him, we don't win games outright without Tre White. We don't go to the playoffs without him. 

To point 1: I can’t agree with this. On several levels. Not the least of which a player’s draft status has no bearing on the magnitude or lack thereof of a racist comment he made. Racism deserves no double standard. For anyone. 
 

To point 2: I’m white and I AM highly offended by Fromm’s text. I’m also willing to see an opportunity for forgiveness and acceptance by both black and white players alike. I reject this idea that any black player on the team might be precluded from forgiving Fromm on the basis of his skin color.

5 minutes ago, Irv said:

 

JP  - LOOK OUT!

That punk had it coming, though. JP may have been the most arrogant rookie in history. 

[Pasaluki]

20 minutes ago, K-9 said:

To point 1: I can’t agree with this. On several levels. Not the least of which a player’s draft status has no bearing on the magnitude or lack thereof of a racist comment he made. Racism deserves no double standard. For anyone. 
 

To point 2: I’m white and I AM highly offended by Fromm’s text. I’m also willing to see an opportunity for forgiveness and acceptance by both black and white players alike. I reject this idea that any black player on the team might be precluded from forgiving Fromm on the basis of his skin color.

 

Point 1: thats the difference between what a fan thinks about vs what gm needs to think about. Your making a moral argument but Football is a strategic game. It is not the same as real life. You have to weigh how much does this player hurt us vs potentially help us. Risk vs reward. With a 1st round player you accept higher risk for the chance of a greater reward. 

 

Point 2: You aren't highly offended because if you were you wouldn't be carrying this guys flag for pages and pages. Tre of course is not precluded from forgiving him but if for some reason he doesn't than the Bills have created their own problem. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Pasaluki

[BillsFan692]

1 hour ago, LB3 said:

You missed an L.

 

 

Does anyone know if Tre's Twitter background has always been LSU or if he changed it back recently?

Its always been

36 minutes ago, Pasaluki said:

 

To point 1: yes I would. The tolerance for insolence for a 1st round pick is much higher. To be drafted in the 1st means that the team believes that the talent of the player can make a huge difference.  Like it or not players are not treated equally based on draft status. But no-one mourns for a 6th round LB being cut except perhaps this board. If it was up to this board Christian Wade and the CFL receiver would be in the starting lineup. 

 

Players are cut and forgotten and many never get a second chance. Others like Nate Peterman get a million chances to fail.

 

To your second point:

I'm white and I'm not personally offended by what Fromm said so he doesn't owe me an apology. But some black players are offended including our all world cornerback. A player like Tre White is worth 100 Jake Fromms. People saying Tre is being a diva obviously care more about other things than the team winning games. 

They are willing to risk alienating the best player on the team for a potential backup quarterback.

Even if you disagree with him, we don't win games outright without Tre White. We don't go to the playoffs without him. 

Lets just play point 2 out to its ultimate conclusion.

 

You are essentially saying tre white is soooo gooood that he should run the team and whatever he wants he gets. Essentially you are saying because of his talent he can hold the team hostage.

 

Disagreeeeee

Edited June 5, 2020 by BillsFan692

[BillsM@fia]

I believe in giving players second chances.  We all made stupid mistakes when we were younger.

 

That being said, based on the current climate and the fact the majority of NFL Athletes are African American..I think it is in the best interest for the team to cut ties with him.  He's a 5th round QB with a noodle arm, who ceilings is likely a solid backup.  The Bills are risking losing the locker room by having this guy on the team.  

Edited June 5, 2020 by BillsM@fia

[BillsFan692]

1 minute ago, BillsM@fia said:

I believe in giving players second chances.  We all made stupid mistakes when we were younger.

 

That being said, based on the current climate and the fact the majority of NFL Athletes are African American..I think it is in the best interest for the team to cut ties with him.  He's a 5th round QB with a noodle arm, who ceilings is likely a solid backup.  The Bills are risking losing the locker room by having this guy on the roster.  

So then where does that leave Josh Allen who also made racist comments albeit at a younger age?

 

Is tre gonna want him gone next? Where does the holding the team hostage bit end?

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Pasaluki said:

 

Point 1: thats the difference between what a fan thinks about vs what gm needs to think about. Your making a moral argument but Football is a strategic game. It is not the same as real life. You have to weigh how much does this player hurt us vs potentially help us. Risk vs reward. With a 1st round player you accept higher risk for the chance of a greater reward. 

 

Point 2: You aren't highly offended because if you were you wouldn't be carrying this guys flag for pages and pages. Tre of course is not precluded from forgiving him but if for some reason he doesn't than the Bills have created their own problem. 

Point 1: Of course it’s a moral argument. I don’t impose double standards for racist comments. I don’t think the team will, either. But we will see. The idea that you can separate locker room dynamics from the game itself is naive. But it’s nice to know that if Fromm were taken in the first round, you’d be willing to cut him some slack for the very offense you want him cut for now. 
 

Point 2: Don’t presume that I’m not highly offended because I don’t preclude the players’ willingness to forgive based on their skin color. And that “flag” I’m carrying centers around the idea of forgiveness, the ability to change, the opportunity for growth, and the collective idea of the team being able to move forward. If you can’t see that in what I’ve posted, then just move on rather than put bogus motivations behind my posts. 

[BillsM@fia]

21 minutes ago, BillsM@fia said:

I believe in giving players second chances.  We all made stupid mistakes when we were younger.

 

That being said, based on the current climate and the fact the majority of NFL Athletes are African American..I think it is in the best interest for the team to cut ties with him.  He's a 5th round QB with a noodle arm, who ceilings is likely a solid backup.  The Bills are risking losing the locker room by having this guy on the team.  

 

19 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

So then where does that leave Josh Allen who also made racist comments albeit at a younger age?

 

Is tre gonna want him gone next? Where does the holding the team hostage bit end?

Its apples and oranges you can't compare the two.

 

The keyword in my post was current climate. The Fromm leak happened at the worst possible time because of the George Floyd incident. 

 

What Josh Allen said is not being discussed because the reports happened three years ago.  We don't know if Josh has made amends and earned his teammates respect since he was drafted.  Also, Josh is a former first round pick who is coming off a season where he lead his team to playoffs.  Right or wrong, Josh gets a longer leash.

 

Regarding either player, I am not trying to take a moral stand. I am giving my opinion what I believe is the best for the organizations culture and ability to win games.

Edited June 5, 2020 by BillsM@fia

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

I think we are safe to edit the title of this thread!