Jake Fromm: Controversial comments

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, BillsM@fia said:

 

Its apples and oranges you can't compare the two.

 

The keyword in my post was current climate . The Fromm leak happened at the worst possible time because of the George Floyd incident. 

 

What Josh Allen said is not being discussed because the reports happened three years ago.  We don't know if Josh has made amends and earned his teammates respect since he was drafted.  Also, Josh is a former first round pick who is coming off a season where he lead his team to playoffs.  Right or wrong, Josh gets a longer leash.

 

Regarding either player, I am not trying to take a moral stand. I am giving my opinion what I believe is the best for the organizations culture and ability to win games.

Here’s an article about how Allen and the Bills went about handling any potential internal issues with Allen’s tweets from 2012, when he was 16. I suspect team leadership will be asked to participate with Fromm as well.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/bills/2018/08/15/josh-allen-eager-put-racist-tweets-revelation-past/994524002/

 

[BillsM@fia]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Here’s an article about how Allen and the Bills went about handling any potential internal issues with Allen’s tweets from 2012, when he was 16. I suspect team leadership will be asked to participate with Fromm as well.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/bills/2018/08/15/josh-allen-eager-put-racist-tweets-revelation-past/994524002/

 

 

I will let you have the last word. 

[thebandit27]

19 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Here’s an article about how Allen and the Bills went about handling any potential internal issues with Allen’s tweets from 2012, when he was 16. I suspect team leadership will be asked to participate with Fromm as well.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/bills/2018/08/15/josh-allen-eager-put-racist-tweets-revelation-past/994524002/

 

 

14 minutes ago, BillsM@fia said:

 

I will let you have the last word. 

FWIW, Stephen A. Smith gave his perspective at the time, and he seemed absolutely fine with Allen’s explanation:

 

 

[Billl]

12 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

FWIW, Stephen A. Smith gave his perspective at the time, and he seemed absolutely fine with Allen’s explanation:

 

 

I suppose Josh got lucky that his racially insensitive tweets were exposed back when racism was more tolerated.

[stinky finger]

5 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Clearly Jake's actions were wrong. There's no serious debate about that point. He has also embarrassed the entire organization and reopened old wounds for Josh Allen. Despite that, however, I am willing to forgive, but on 1 condition. Young Mr. Fromm needs become part of the solution by actively working for it and I stress the word 'actively'. Wether it's engaging in protests on an ongoing basis or speaking to groups or whatever is up to him. "I'm sorry" is not enough.

 

Pretty high and mighty.

 

I'll assume you're pristine in your words and actions and have been your entire life, eh there Young Mr. GreggTX?

[Pasaluki]

1 hour ago, BillsFan692 said:

Lets just play point 2 out to its ultimate conclusion.

 

You are essentially saying tre white is soooo gooood that he should run the team and whatever he wants he gets. Essentially you are saying because of his talent he can hold the team hostage.

 

Disagreeeeee

 

His talent can hold the team hostage in this case because we are talking about a backup QB prospect who has not played a single down. Thats not much of a hostage if he's being held. Also Tre may not be the only player who has a problem with Fromm he is only the most prominent who has spoken out. Not for nothing he is also the best player on the team.

How many players on the Bills need to come out as against him for it to be ok to cut him? 

[Rico]

24 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

FWIW, Stephen A. Smith gave his perspective at the time, and he seemed absolutely fine with Allen’s explanation:

 

 

Stephen A on Jake... he’s happy.

 

[thebandit27]

11 minutes ago, Billl said:

I suppose Josh got lucky that his racially insensitive tweets were exposed back when racism was more tolerated.

He. Tweeted. Quotes. From. A. Show. And. Hip. Hop. Lyrics.

 

You're simply looking for a smoking gun that isn’t there. That you do so out of one side of your mouth while defending Tyreek Hill out of the other says all I need to know about the level of discernment being applied here.

[Prospector]

This is dumb and over blown... I care about this almost as much as I cared about Tunsil in a Weed gas mask... I don’t. 

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, Rico said:

Stephen A on Jake... he’s happy.

 

Slightly different reaction than when he spoke with Josh Allen huh?

[Billl]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

He. Tweeted. Quotes. From. A. Show. And. Hip. Hop. Lyrics.

 

You're simply looking for a smoking gun that isn’t there. That you do so out of one side of your mouth while defending Tyreek Hill out of the other says all I need to know about the level of discernment being applied here.

I understand you want to change the argument by playing the whatabout game.  Feel free to start a domestic violence thread, and I’ll be glad to discuss it there.  I don’t think Josh is racist.  I think he made comments a long time ago that we’re misguided, but they weren’t hateful, and he made them publicly so he wasn’t trying to hide them.  I can’t say the same for Jake.

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

I understand you want to change the argument by playing the whatabout game.  Feel free to start a domestic violence thread, and I’ll be glad to discuss it there.  I don’t think Josh is racist.  I think he made comments a long time ago that we’re misguided, but they weren’t hateful, and he made them publicly so he wasn’t trying to hide them.  I can’t say the same for Jake.

You legit said that racism was tolerated back then and that’s why Josh was lucky.

 

And if you can’t see the corollary I’m drawing I don’t know what to tell you. You either believe that moral issues reflect on an organization or you don’t. You either believe that you should take a player at his word or you don’t.

 

That’s all I’ll say about it. My comments in this thread will be dedicated to Fromm from here on out.

[Prospector]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

I understand you want to change the argument by playing the whatabout game.  Feel free to start a domestic violence thread, and I’ll be glad to discuss it there.  I don’t think Josh is racist.  I think he made comments a long time ago that we’re misguided, but they weren’t hateful, and he made them publicly so he wasn’t trying to hide them.  I can’t say the same for Jake.

Both are over blown and over scrutinized... I hate this fickle society we have created. 

[BillsM@fia]

 

Shannon is spot on.

Edited June 5, 2020 by BillsM@fia

[Billl]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

You legit said that racism was tolerated back then and that’s why Josh was lucky.

 

And if you can’t see the corollary I’m drawing I don’t know what to tell you. You either believe that moral issues reflect on an organization or you don’t. You either believe that you should take a player at his word or you don’t.

 

That’s all I’ll say about it. My comments in this thread will be dedicated to Fromm from here on out.

Let’s put it this way.  If we find out tomorrow that he said something similar 6 months ago, he’s gone.  No apology tour.  No racial sensitivity training classes.  No “he was just a dumb kid”.  No “he was just quoting rap lyrics when he tweeted out the n-word”.  
 

If that were to happen (it won’t because he learned his lesson), he would be out of the league in an instant.

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, BillsM@fia said:

 

Shannon brings up a great point: the fallout from this situation has the potential to dictate the livelihood and career of many athletes and celebrities in general.

 

If Fromm loses his job, then every person with a text message from a celebrity that has any type of racial tone has the potential to become ammo with which an interested party can take them down.

[Augie]

39 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

FWIW, Stephen A. Smith gave his perspective at the time, and he seemed absolutely fine with Allen’s explanation:

 

 

 

In case anyone else is wondering, this is safe to watch. Stephen A is not going to yell at you. 

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

Let’s put it this way.  If we find out tomorrow that he said something similar 6 months ago, he’s gone.  No apology tour.  No racial sensitivity training classes.  No “he was just a dumb kid”.  No “he was just quoting rap lyrics when he tweeted out the n-word”.  
 

If that were to happen (it won’t because he learned his lesson), he would be out of the league in an instant.

How does that make him any different than any other player in the league?

[Prospector]

1 hour ago, BillsM@fia said:

 

Shannon is spot on.

No, Shannon is a race bater who love’s racial controversy. He also said the hardest job in America is being black... his words are ignorant and biased at best

Edited June 5, 2020 by WorstTEever81

[ExiledInIllinois]

The text was from 2019!  It wasn't just now?   WTF...

 

/smh ? ? 

Edited June 5, 2020 by ExiledInIllinois

[Billl]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

How does that make him any different than any other player in the league?

It doesn’t.  Hence my post about that type of behavior not being tolerated any longer.  The insinuation behind posting the SAS clip was that behavior like this was once considered to be excusable if a sincere sounding apology was issued.  I’m telling you that things have changed.

[BillsFan692]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

It doesn’t.  Hence my post about that type of behavior not being tolerated any longer.  The insinuation behind posting the SAS clip was that behavior like this was once considered to be excusable if a sincere sounding apology was issued.  I’m telling you that things have changed.

Things have NOT changed. You cant have an environment where people are not allowed to apologize and to seek forgiveness.

[Captain Murica]

I'm wondering if there was more to his text that he didn't release publicly but addressed with his teammates and organization? He could've have been making an attempt at a joke but in poor taste. In the end it won't matter what we think of him, its up to his teammates what they think along with the staff and owners. He has a tough hill to climb. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Captain Murica

[DJB]

The Bills organization worked through the Josh Allen tweets as well. 

 

I see no reason why we cant work through for Fromm

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

Things have NOT changed. You cant have an environment where people are not allowed to apologize and to seek forgiveness.

People are free to apologize and seek forgiveness, but they aren’t entitled to receive it.  Apologies aren’t tokens that you put into a forgiveness machine that spits out a receipt to show you’ve been absolved.

 

Is this over the top?  Is the pendulum going to swing a little too far?  Probably.  That’s how these things work.  The mistreatment and dehumanization of minorities in this country has gone on for far too long, and it’s hitting critical mass.  It’s going to be dealt with swiftly and severely until people finally get it through their heads that it’s not okay.  If we ever reach that point, the court of public opinion will relax its rules a bit.

 

If you want to help speed the process along, you can start by telling people to take down their confederate flags.  You can marginalize the people you know who make racist comments or support nationalistic politicians.  Alternatively, you can die mad about it because society isn’t going to suddenly decide that it’s okay to go back to the “good old days”.   It’s really up to you.

[thebandit27]

23 minutes ago, Billl said:

It doesn’t.  Hence my post about that type of behavior not being tolerated any longer.  The insinuation behind posting the SAS clip was that behavior like this was once considered to be excusable if a sincere sounding apology was issued.  I’m telling you that things have changed.

You still don’t seem to understand why the two situations are dramatically different 

[GoBills808]

27 minutes ago, WorstTEever81 said:

No, Shannon is a race bater who love racial controversy. He also said the hardest job in America is being black... his words are ignorant and biased at best

i love it

[Billl]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

You still don’t seem to understand why the two situations are dramatically different 

I’m pretty sure I already said that Josh’s were:

1. Made many years ago

2. Made when he was not an adult

3. Made in public, so it’s not like he was hiding from them

4. Quoting pop culture

5. Discovered when society didn’t have a zero tolerance policy

 

Fromm’s meet none of this criteria.

[BillsFan692]

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

I’m pretty sure I already said that Josh’s were:

1. Made many years ago

2. Made when he was not an adult

3. Made in public, so it’s not like he was hiding from them

4. Quoting pop culture

5. Discovered when society didn’t have a zero tolerance policy

 

Fromm’s meet none of this criteria.

So then if Tre does decide to dig in at Josh you would completely 180 your opinion or you would hold the same line "cut em things are DIFFERENT"?

 

At least my position for Fromm is consistent with my position on Allen. Your position is inconsistent and not palatable.

Edited June 5, 2020 by BillsFan692

[Prospector]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

i love it

Not a surprise 

[Pasaluki]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

 But it’s nice to know that if Fromm were taken in the first round, you’d be willing to cut him some slack for the very offense you want him cut for now. 
 

 

I guess it is nice. Thats how 32 other teams work. Late round picks get short leashes, early round picks get longer leashes. This is how the NFL is.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Pasaluki

[Prospector]

11 minutes ago, Pasaluki said:

 

I guess it is nice. Thats how 32 other teams work. Late round picks get short leashes, early round picks get longer leashes. This is how the NFL is.

QFT... 

[Dr. K]

As others have said, I take this as a teachable moment. If racism is to be reduced in the U.S., it's a matter of changing the hearts and minds of white people who have not seen how their behavior and attitudes might be contributing to the problem.

 

This is a chance for Jake Fromm to learn and to demonstrate by his actions and behavior toward other people, white and black, that he understands, and it's a chance for those who were offended by these remarks to forgive. I'm encouraged by what Lesley Frazier had to say about this.  

 

If there's any place where a white person has a chance to forge a good relationship with black people, and to understand across racial lines, then an NFL squad, where white and black have to work so closely together to achieve success, is as good an example as there is. I hope that the players and coaches, both Fromm and his teammates, will work toward that goal. The burden is mostly going to be Fromm's but it will take white and black together to make it work.

[Dragoon]

He’s gonna get some shots at practice. Better have your head on a swivel, Fromm. 
 

wondering the motivation on the leakers behalf. 

[K-9]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That's kindve what the Bills are doing now.... cutting Fromm some slack because he's a QB and a 5th round pick.

 

If he Tyler Bass made those comments you think he'd still be here? Not a chance in hell.

I don't put stock into anything Stephen A says. Guys a joke.

Well, now I’m confused. I got people telling me that BECAUSE he’s a 5th round pick he’s expendable immediately, but if he was a high round pick the Bills would overlook the offense and now I’m told that even though he’s a 5th round pick but he’s a QB, so the team will give him slack. But it’s it one round later at another position, that’s it, gotta cut ties immediately. Nice that then Bills have such a sliding scale of justice for racist remarks. 
 

Newsflash: the Bills gave him the opportunity to address the team, he did, and we will just have to wait and see if there’s any fallout. I can just as easily see Tre saying his response was in the heat of the moment at one of the most racially charged times in recent history and that he’s willing go give Fromm a chance to redeem himself. Not sure why that’s such a hard thing for people to believe. 
 

Well, actually I do understand why people don’t want to believe it. 

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That's kindve what the Bills are doing now.... cutting Fromm some slack because he's a QB and a 5th round pick.

 

If he Tyler Bass made those comments you think he'd still be here? Not a chance in hell.

The Cheaters didn’t cut their rookie kicker for his racist tattoo. 

[ChattanoogaBills]

1 hour ago, WorstTEever81 said:

No, Shannon is a race bater who love’s racial controversy. He also said the hardest job in America is being black... his words are ignorant and biased at best

Your post is ignorant and biased at best. Shannon does a great job speaking on racial topics. Skip Bayless agrees with 99% of it. 

If you have never experienced racism how can you understand what black people go through.

[Prospector]

21 minutes ago, ChattanoogaBills said:

Your post is ignorant and biased at best. Shannon does a great job speaking on racial topics. Skip Bayless agrees with 99% of it. 

If you have never experienced racism how can you understand what black people go through.

Both skip and Shannon are clueless, political hacks. I’m glad that they have you fooled though. They need the ratings

Edited June 5, 2020 by WorstTEever81

[IDBillzFan]

20 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

FYI....this is the her.

 

https://twitter.com/ashleymp20?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

 

Women. Can't live with 'em...pass the beer nuts.

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

People are free to apologize and seek forgiveness, but they aren’t entitled to receive it.  Apologies aren’t tokens that you put into a forgiveness machine that spits out a receipt to show you’ve been absolved.

 

Is this over the top?  Is the pendulum going to swing a little too far?  Probably.  That’s how these things work.  The mistreatment and dehumanization of minorities in this country has gone on for far too long, and it’s hitting critical mass.  It’s going to be dealt with swiftly and severely until people finally get it through their heads that it’s not okay.  If we ever reach that point, the court of public opinion will relax its rules a bit.

 

If you want to help speed the process along, you can start by telling people to take down their confederate flags.  You can marginalize the people you know who make racist comments or support nationalistic politicians.  Alternatively, you can die mad about it because society isn’t going to suddenly decide that it’s okay to go back to the “good old days”.   It’s really up to you.

I could not let this slide when you said the "mistreatment and dehumanization of minorities in this country has gone on for far too long"".  Seriously??  This is 2020 bro.  This is not 1965 in Alabama.  I do not know what world you live in, but who on earth is dehumanizing minorities?  I have worked in my field for 30 years.  I have worked with hundreds, probably thousands of black people as clients and co workers over those years.  I have NEVER heard anyone ever use any language even remotely in the same stratosphere of feeling dehumanized.  Where the hell do you come up with such statements?  Sure there are people who are not crazy about minorities.  But your dramatic rhetoric is absurd and unfounded.  Most black and white folks as well as other minorities get along just fine.  The liberal media wants you to believe otherwise.  But that is just not the case.  Most people are doing fine together.  Everyone has equal rights in this country.  Last I checked we all can eat in the same restaurants, sleep in the same hotels, drink from the same water fountains, and even date outside our race!!  Does EVERYONE love each other?  Obviously not.  But I think the overwhelming majority of people get along.  Not sure what your agenda is, but its way over the top with unnecessary drama.

 

Does the Confederate Flag offend you?  I guess you are not a big Lynard Skynard or Kid Rock fan than.  Does the American Flag offend you as well?  I sure as hell hope not.        

 

And btw why do you have so much time to post on here?  Don't you have a job and/or a family that needs tending to?