BillsMafi$ Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 It’s clear that if we signed Olsen that Kroft or Smith would of be cut...Do you think the bills will now attempt to restructure one of them if they don’t end up bringing anyone else in? Considering one of them we’re not going to be in their plans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, BillsMafi$ said: It’s clear that if we signed Olsen that Kroft or Smith would of be cut...Do you think the bills will now attempt to restructure one of them if they don’t end up bringing anyone else in? Considering one of them we’re not going to be in their plans I think they will wait to see if someone else is cut or is available for trade. If they dont get something prior to the draft, I'd expect them to take another tight end in rounds 4-6 and have a competition in training camp. I think Smith will be here regardless, but Kroft is for sure on notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Smith has already been paid 50% of his contract in one year. How much can they really save restructuring him at this point. Just cut him outright and get someone better. Ditto for Kroft--cut him. Dumb signing anyway for real money. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I think given what happened to Kroft last season Beane has plenty of ammo to negotiate a new contract if he still wants to play here but the ultimate decision might be made if they decide to sign another veteran TE but Beane may feel he deserves 1 more chance but it should be at a lower cost IMHO ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Restructure? CUT THEM 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Pay cut or be cut. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 29 minutes ago, BillsMafi$ said: It’s clear that if we signed Olsen that Kroft or Smith would of be cut...Do you think the bills will now attempt to restructure one of them if they don’t end up bringing anyone else in? Considering one of them we’re not going to be in their plans Smith, I think, stays unless we bring in someone with a similar skill set. He's basically like another OLman. Kroft, I think it depends upon how they perceive his injury as impacting him last year. I don't think they're in such a hurry to cut or restructure guys as folks seem to think around here. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Restructure? CUT THEM Kroft was like Sammy, injured more often than not but can produce on the field. I'd be OK with cutting him loose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 36 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Smith has already been paid 50% of his contract in one year. How much can they really save restructuring him at this point. Just cut him outright and get someone better. Ditto for Kroft--cut him. Dumb signing anyway for real money. ...just a thought, but I doubt the Kroft signing happens if Beane knew he would land TWO potential youngsters in Knox and Sweeney......as far as Smith, he generates "more YELLOW than Steelers terrible towels"........... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...just a thought, but I doubt the Kroft signing happens if Beane knew he would land TWO potential youngsters in Knox and Sweeney......as far as Smith, he generates "more YELLOW than Steelers terrible towels"........... I think if Kroft doesnt get injured when he saw what he had in Knox and Sweeney he trades him for a bag of footballs or a future 7th rounder or whatever you just dont know how draft picks are gonna work out.....so he covers himself with vets 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 57 minutes ago, BillsMafi$ said: It’s clear that if we signed Olsen that Kroft or Smith would of be cut...Do you think the bills will now attempt to restructure one of them if they don’t end up bringing anyone else in? Considering one of them we’re not going to be in their plans Cut Kroft. He is useless at any salary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Both are due roster bonuses on March 22nd. $750k for Kroft, $500k for Smith. $2M of Kroft’s salary guarantees in that date as well. No sense paying them that if they aren’t in our plans. I’d certainly expect Kroft to be cut before then. His contract was always ridiculous. Smith is making less and he has $1M of his salary guaranteed. We are going to pay him $3.25M to play for us or $1M not to. Don’t know what’ll happen there, but he’s certainly replaceable if we move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I really don't like Smith. I like the idea or theory of Kroft but McD always touts that availability is most important. I think Kroft gets cut. With all the credit we give Beane he, IMO, deserves negative criticism for these two decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I’d cut them both instantly. Gives them a chance to catch on quicker too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 What is the deal with Croom? Is he a viable option, or has his "potential" worn out its welcome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Smith, I think, stays unless we bring in someone with a similar skill set. He's basically like another OLman. Kroft, I think it depends upon how they perceive his injury as impacting him last year. I don't think they're in such a hurry to cut or restructure guys as folks seem to think around here. I will just keep saying - give your 6th lineman developmental snaps instead of lee smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...just a thought, but I doubt the Kroft signing happens if Beane knew he would land TWO potential youngsters in Knox and Sweeney......as far as Smith, he generates "more YELLOW than Steelers terrible towels"........... 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: I think if Kroft doesnt get injured when he saw what he had in Knox and Sweeney he trades him for a bag of footballs or a future 7th rounder or whatever you just dont know how draft picks are gonna work out.....so he covers himself with vets The Kroft signing was dumb under any circumstance. The guy has had a single season that produced anything and it was barely above mediocre. His previous job was sitting on Cincy's IR list with a broken foot. On his FIRST day in OTA's he immediately breaks his foot again! This guy has, over a 5 year career, 73 catches. The Bills gave him top 15 TE money and this year he got 6.7 million for 6 catches. Awful awful singing that can only partially be redeemed by admitting so and dumping this deadwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Just now, Mr. WEO said: The Kroft signing was dumb under any circumstance. The guy has had a single season that produced anything and it was barely above mediocre. His previous job was sitting on Cincy's IR list with a broken foot. On his FIRST day in OTA's he immediately breaks his foot again! This guy has, over a 5 year career, 73 catches. The Bills gave him top 15 TE money and this year he got 6.7 million for 6 catches. Awful awful singing that can only partially be redeemed by admitting so and dumping this deadwood. If only other teams did these same things....its a shame Beane is the only one to do this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: If only other teams did these same things....its a shame Beane is the only one to do this That's a poor argument and not germane to the discussion. Of course many GMs have made careers out of bad decisions--no one can credibly argue against that. But that fact doesn't mitigate the predictable error of signing Kroft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said: It’s clear that if we signed Olsen that Kroft or Smith would of be cut...Do you think the bills will now attempt to restructure one of them if they don’t end up bringing anyone else in? Considering one of them we’re not going to be in their plans Typically you "restructure" on;y players you want to keep long time by giving them more guaranteed money in order to reduce their current year cap. I'm guessing you mean you want these 2 to take a pay cut. As others have said you can just as easily cut them from the team. 45 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said: What is the deal with Croom? Is he a viable option, or has his "potential" worn out its welcome? I have no idea why thread after thread posters keep talking about Croom. He is not even on the team and I doubt he is being considered as anything more than a camp body IF they do sign him. Edited February 20, 2020 by ColoradoBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: Typically you "restructure" on;y players you want to keep long time by giving them more guaranteed money in order to reduce their current year cap. I'm guessing you mean you want these 2 to take a pay cut. As others have said you can just as easily cut them from the team. I have no idea why thread after thread posters keep talking about Croom. He is not even on the team and I doubt he is being considered as anything more than a camp body IF they do sign him. He's on IR, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He's on IR, no? Just cut them along with Murphy, all scrubs that saves us another 15 mill in cap space 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...just a thought, but I doubt the Kroft signing happens if Beane knew he would land TWO potential youngsters in Knox and Sweeney......as far as Smith, he generates "more YELLOW than Steelers terrible towels"........... I don't know, I think it still would have happened. My thinking is Beane and McD planned to have Knox pretty much sit and learn behind Kroft last season, play some in 2 TE set's, then this coming season let Knoxtake over as the starter, but keep Kroft for 2 TE sets and in case it turns out Know wasn't ready. But last years injuries accelerated everything and one year later you know Knox can take over as the starter, so does make Kroft more expendable. Smith I'd keep at least thru training camp as don't save a ton by cutting him, and keep him in case of injury. Bates was a very versatile lineman, could play all positions. I wonder how he'd be a blocking TE and an occasional like 4 to 5 times a season catch a ball, kind of like Smith was. I'd think as a lineman should be as good if not better blocker. Don't know if he has the size though for TE?? Would be nice to use only one roster slot toy be your backup swing tackle and blocking TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 27 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He's on IR, no? IR designations are over with. Croom is an ERFA and not signed yet with the Bills. He's in the same boat as Waddle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 12 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: IR designations are over with. Croom is an ERFA and not signed yet with the Bills. He's in the same boat as Waddle. I guess you answered my question.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichRiderBills Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 4 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said: Kroft was like Sammy, injured more often than not but can produce on the field. I'd be OK with cutting him loose What? Like Sammy? Kroft had 6 catches bro. 6.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Keep Kroft. He will be a fine # 2. Cut Smith. Bring back Croom or sign another pass catching TE. Forget the blocking TE and FB on this roster. Carry an extra Rb and an extra swing OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 I'd rather relocate Kroft and Smith than restructure them. Both worthless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 6 hours ago, White Linen said: With all the credit we give Beane he, IMO, deserves negative criticism for these two decisions. Smith is a fine blocking TE. One of the best, yellow hankies notwithstanding. Signing Kroft was a quick fix just after releasing Charles Clay. The TE cupboard was bare and he was available before FA. Certainly with hindsight the choices don’t look promising but no, negative criticism isn’t deserved. They just did better than hoped for in the Draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Negative criticism is lifeblood of some posters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Smith is a fine blocking TE. One of the best, yellow hankies notwithstanding. Signing Kroft was a quick fix just after releasing Charles Clay. The TE cupboard was bare and he was available before FA. Certainly with hindsight the choices don’t look promising but no, negative criticism isn’t deserved. They just did better than hoped for in the Draft. Like I said I understand the "theory" but it didn't work. So in real time it deserves criticism. I really don't understand your contention, when saying the choices don't look promising. Just understanding why they did it doesn't negate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Negative criticism is lifeblood of some posters. Weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 11 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Negative criticism is lifeblood of some posters. Yes because YOU, of all people, are a font of positivity around here. You kidding me bro? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, White Linen said: Like I said I understand the "theory" but it didn't work. So in real time it deserves criticism. I really don't understand your contention, when saying the choices don't look promising. Just understanding why they did it doesn't negate it. If Kroft doesn’t get injured, he’s starting Day 1. I think it likely Smith is on the ‘20 roster as well, given how good a blocker he is. Check out every short yardage TD we scored. You’ll see him. I’m not criticizing McBeane for how it played out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: Yes because YOU, of all people, are a font of positivity around here. You kidding me bro? bro? Only time I have heard from relatives I have never seen is when they needed to "borrow" some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Cut them both and upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Kroft has always been an average TE and Lee Smith a blocking TE. All of a sudden, you're surprised and disappointed by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 20 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: If Kroft doesn’t get injured, he’s starting Day 1. I think it likely Smith is on the ‘20 roster as well, given how good a blocker he is. Check out every short yardage TD we scored. You’ll see him. I’m not criticizing McBeane for how it played out. I'm not saying I despise him for it but because of how it played out he does. If he cuts Kroft, it'll be because he agrees it was a mistake. We'll see. Obviously because we're in good shape with the cap it doesn't matter much but it soon will. I don't hate Smith and I'm sure if we count all the good blocks and compared them to the critical penalties, there's likely more good. I like Beane a lot but it doesn't mean we can't visit some of the players that didn't work out as we anticipate how well he'll build the roster in excellent cap health. He's drafted well but he's had some FA signings that we haven't gotten our money's worth. As the money gets spent I hope we get more than our money's worth more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 WL- good points, and as Polian said on NFLR six months ago, he evaluated his lifetime history and stated he was at a 57% success rate in the draft and around the same to a little better in free agency. Given he is one of the few GM’s in the HOF, Beane Id say is doing pretty well for a new GM, especially as he was hamstringed by lack of cap and high contracts for previous players. Now he has cap space, a long future of a decent cap situation moving forward, and 9 picks. The key for me and sounds like you are saying something similar is has he and McD learned from the mistakes of holding onto a guy like Peterman too long, or Benjamin. I would feel very encouraged if they cut bait with these two guys, trade up for a young stud TE in FA, and you guys have convinced me maybe it is a good idea to grab Ngokuae given Jax and ATL ‘s cap situation (Hooper). With the Murphy and these two cuts alone we’re looking at almost $99 mil in cap space. We could afford these upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 14 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said: It’s clear that if we signed Olsen that Kroft or Smith would of be cut...Do you think the bills will now attempt to restructure one of them if they don’t end up bringing anyone else in? Considering one of them we’re not going to be in their plans why do this? We have the cap space and no need to add dead money in future years. You don't want either player you just cut them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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