Sammy Watkins: New Teams, Same Bad Attitude

[atlbillsfan1975]

good for Sammy!

Rooted for him when he was a Bill and have no ill will towards him when he left.

I don’t blame the Bills for trading him away when they did. I think the Bills got a fair deal.

i hope Sammy has a big game in the SB. 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

OK, let's play your silly game.  If the Bills had paid Watkins $16M/year, Gilmore $13M/year and kept Darby, you're saying the Bills would have won the SB? 

 

As for those specific players, Watkins isn't a major part of their success and is little more than Hogan was for the Cheaters.  Speaking of the Cheaters, they won SB's without paying $13M/year for a guy like Gilmore.  And as for Darby, he's nothing special, never even having made the Pro Bowl as an alternate.

 

But let me ask you: when the 49'ers beat the Chefs in the SB, what former Bill will you be touting then?

 

The 49'ers are another one...........they had a terrible roster.........and in short order they are now in the SB with probably the best roster in the NFL.    

 

As for whether the Bills would have been a SB team with Mahomes and Gilmore and Watkins and all the draft picks that they would have saved not having to trade for KB and Josh Allen etc..............why not?   Do you think McDermott isn't a capable coach?

[formerlyofCtown]

11 minutes ago, Rico said:

Buddy trade.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2013/04/29/bills-trade-lb-kelvin-sheppard-colts-lb-jerry-hughes

 

"Versatility is something we're looking for. We want our linebackers to be able to at least play both outside spots," Bills general manager Buddy Nix said. "We think this will give him an opportunity to do what he does best."

Lesean McCoy

Clicked on the link and remembered just how bad the Nix and Levy Rosters were.  That is probably why people thought Whaley was so great.

Edited January 20, 2020 by formerlyofCtown

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Paulus said:

The Sammy hate here is so stupid. Some of y'all are ridiculous. SAD!!!

To me its not Sammy hate it is Sammy beware I supported him while he was here......

 

He does not have the mentality of a 1.....he gets paid like a 1.....I would take him like I would take Corey Davis...but Davis would definately be cheaper

[Rico]

1 minute ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Lesean McCoy

He was OK. When's the last time he played?

[formerlyofCtown]

10 minutes ago, Rico said:

He was OK. When's the last time he played?

Week 15.

26 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

OK, let's play your silly game.  If the Bills had paid Watkins $16M/year, Gilmore $13M/year and kept Darby, you're saying the Bills would have won the SB? 

 

As for those specific players, Watkins isn't a major part of their success and is little more than Hogan was for the Cheaters.  Speaking of the Cheaters, they won SB's without paying $13M/year for a guy like Gilmore.  And as for Darby, he's nothing special, never even having made the Pro Bowl as an alternate.

 

But let me ask you: when the 49'ers beat the Chefs in the SB, what former Bill will you be touting then?

We had too many holes to keep those guys at that point.  If they were available this offseason we may make a play on Watkins.  They other 2 we don't need.

 

Dang it Goodwin why couldnt you stay committed to football.?

Edited January 20, 2020 by formerlyofCtown

[Doc]

57 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

point whizzed right by you and you were too stubborn to realize it 

 

What was the point?  That the Bills should overpay to keep players who don't produce (Sammy, Darby) or were replaced (Gilmore, which would have meant no White and no extra 1st rounder the following year) and don't appear to want to be in Buffalo?

 

47 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The 49'ers are another one...........they had a terrible roster.........and in short order they are now in the SB with probably the best roster in the NFL.    

 

As for whether the Bills would have been a SB team with Mahomes and Gilmore and Watkins and all the draft picks that they would have saved not having to trade for KB and Josh Allen etc..............why not?   Do you think McDermott isn't a capable coach?

 

As I said above, if the Bills kept Gilmore, they wouldn't have drafted White and gotten a 1st the following year (which they used along with trading Glenn, who is done, to get Allen).  So no, I don't think that keeping Gilmore and Watkins and drafting Mahomes necessarily meant SB.  As it stands, they've made the playoffs 2 out of McBeane's first 3 years, arguably getting a lot out of an improving but still unfinished roster.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Doc

[Malazan]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

Well, shoot, Now that you mention it he wouldn’t be  a high end passing option.

 

and it changes nothing given it could’ve been tyreek and about 4 if their receivers listed there anyway 

when healthy he had a run of off the charts here. Just too short a window. 

 

So you agree with me that he never was 'off the charts'. I'm glad because otherwise you'd be wrong. This argument is as stupid as saying a player 'flashes'. Doesn't matter if they can do it for a game or a short stretch of games. That is almost as worthless as not being able to do it at all. 

 

Sammy has never been a #1. He's been on 3 teams and irrelevant on all 3 of them. You could get a lot of people to have a good game here or there on KC. I'd say wake me when it he's able to do it with any kind of consistency, but I'd never wake again.

Edited January 20, 2020 by jeremy2020

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I don't think Whaley was a "good" GM.......I think he was a road scout hired by a road scout GM and that was a bad fit for a football ignorant ownership group like the Pegs.............but he wasn't terrible and he left behind a lot of defensive talent and an offense that was among the league's most effective.

 

McDermott was a lackluster candidate with no clue about offensive football so hiring someone like that meant that he was either going to have to win over that prime-aged locker room with his coaching and charisma OR get rid of players with leverage who could afford to be skeptical.

 

They went with the latter.........which set the roster back at a time when they also had a lot of good older players.

 

In this time frame teams like the Eagles and Rams and Niners hired offensive minds who chose to build on considerably LESSER rosters than what the Bills had at the end of 2016.........and they've quickly become SB teams.

 

But the nice thing is that even though they self mutilated the roster and even though passing on Mahomes was probably the worst mistake in franchise history..........they still have a chance going forward if Allen pans out and they make good moves going forward.

 

As Belichick says you basically gotta' be making nothing but bad decisions to not be competitive in the NFL.

 

How many Bills fans actually know how a 21st century GM builds a roster?  After the likes of Donahoe, Marv/DJ, Buddy, and Whaley no one who started following the team during those years as a Bills fan could.  That is, unless they just don't follow front office trends around the league.  

 

It's why there's typically an angry response whenever a poster reveals that other rebuilds were much faster.  There are enough successful rebuilds by the 3rd complete season in the past decade that it should prompt Bills fans to wonder why McD has slow-walked Buffalo's rebuild.  

 

I guess at this point people will chime in to say OBD is doing it the right way and that's why it takes so long.  If that's the case, how did Philadelphia, Seattle, San Fran, and the LA Rams fast-track theirs and why shouldn't Buffalo be expected to do that either?  

[Rico]

9 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

How many Bills fans actually know how a 21st century GM builds a roster?  After the likes of Donahoe, Marv/DJ, Buddy, and Whaley no one who started following the team during those years as a Bills fan could.  That is, unless they just don't follow front office trends around the league.  

 

It's why there's typically an angry response whenever a poster reveals that other rebuilds were much faster.  There are enough successful rebuilds by the 3rd complete season in the past decade that it should prompt Bills fans to wonder why McD has slow-walked Buffalo's rebuild.  

 

I guess at this point people will chime in to say OBD is doing it the right way and that's why it takes so long.  If that's the case, how did Philadelphia, Seattle, San Fran, and the LA Rams fast-track theirs and why shouldn't Buffalo be expected to do that either?  

I hear you, but none of the 4 teams you mention had a complete and total POS of an owner like the Bills did. That alone made the job a whole lot tougher, everything 'Ralph' had to be purged.

[QCity]

Watkins Whiners have been patiently waiting since his last TD to bump this thread. That was week 1, by the way.

[ticketssince61]

I heard on the game today that after week 1 he did not have a single TD. 

 

And today's TD and one of his in week1 were blown coverages where he was wide open

 

On the chief's he his option #5?

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, Nelius said:

 

Way to contribute.

 

I've said I like Sammy. When all is said and done he should have a lot of money and a decent career to look back on. Why are you so defensive about him being a #1? It has been years since he's shown you that ability, just let it go.

He's never really shown that ability. Take a look at his best season ever. Compare it to even John brown this year.

44 minutes ago, Rico said:

I hear you, but none of the 4 teams you mention had a complete and total POS of an owner like the Bills did. That alone made the job a whole lot tougher, everything 'Ralph' had to be purged.

 

Exactly. 

[BillsVet]

49 minutes ago, Rico said:

I hear you, but none of the 4 teams you mention had a complete and total POS of an owner like the Bills did. That alone made the job a whole lot tougher, everything 'Ralph' had to be purged.

 

Never understood why the purge took so long, but that's history now.  My issue is that Buffalo's latest rebuild under the new owners is now entering the 4th off-season and plenty of question marks remain.  There's more spinning of wheels under the current management from owner to field level than meets the eye.    

 

[LABILLBACKER]

Sammy just can't be counted on to perform on a weekly basis.  There's been no consistency at any point in his career. And the fact that he's been on 3 teams reflects that. It wouldn't surprise me to see him have a quiet SB. But I will be rooting for him.

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I don't think Whaley was a "good" GM.......I think he was a road scout hired by a road scout GM and that was a bad fit for a football ignorant ownership group like the Pegs.............but he wasn't terrible and he left behind a lot of defensive talent and an offense that was among the league's most effective.

 

McDermott was a lackluster candidate with no clue about offensive football so hiring someone like that meant that he was either going to have to win over that prime-aged locker room with his coaching and charisma OR get rid of players with leverage who could afford to be skeptical.

 

They went with the latter.........which set the roster back at a time when they also had a lot of good older players.

 

In this time frame teams like the Eagles and Rams and Niners hired offensive minds who chose to build on considerably LESSER rosters than what the Bills had at the end of 2016.........and they've quickly become SB teams.

 

But the nice thing is that even though they self mutilated the roster and even though passing on Mahomes was probably the worst mistake in franchise history..........they still have a chance going forward if Allen pans out and they make good moves going forward.

 

As Belichick says you basically gotta' be making nothing but bad decisions to not be competitive in the NFL.

 

 

"An offense that was among the league's most effective"? That is utter nonsense. They were an offense that was good at running and below average at passing, an offense that wasn't able to catch up when they fell behind, and an offense that was greatly helped by the very solid defense, and an offense that though it didn't turn the ball over much consistently left the defense with crappy field position despite receiving good field position from that same defense.

 

Not that the rest of your post is any better, though. You've missed the point, again.

 

They got rid of most of those guys for the very very obvious reasons that you still appear determined to pretend don't exist ... that they were in very bad cap shape and were determined to fix that extremely quickly, and that they needed to make trades to get them in position to have enough draft capital to get one of the top QBs the next year in a QB-rich draft.

 

The Eagles, Rams and Niners? You mean the two teams that had already got franchise QBs the year before and the one that lucked into Garoppolo from Belichick and had terrific draft spots besides? They had franchise QBs and of course they were quicker. None of them rebuilt because none of them needed to rebuild. The Bills did. Rebuilds take time. The Rams started the year in 2017 with around $44 mill under the cap and the Niners had around $93 mill. All those teams did a great job but they had franchise QBs or (Niners) extremely high picks.

 

And yeah, McDermott and Beane did self-mutilate the roster. That's what rebuilding does for the first couple of years, especially when you have an atherosclerotic cap situation that you need to remedy on top of the complete lack of a franchise QB.

 

 

7 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

It's why there's typically an angry response whenever a poster reveals that other rebuilds were much faster.  There are enough successful rebuilds by the 3rd complete season in the past decade that it should prompt Bills fans to wonder why McD has slow-walked Buffalo's rebuild. 

 

 

 

 

That's just wrong. A few rebuilds have gone faster, but looking at the history, those are very few and far between. They do exist, and the Walsh 49ers rebuild that went 2-14, 6-10, championship is the poster child. But the Bills are around the 95th percentile putting up 10 wins in year three.

 

More, the Bills rebuild was handicapped compared to most quickly successful rebuilds by never getting a really good draft pick. Walsh had the first overall pick two years in a row coming in, while the Bills in their first two years came into draft season with #10 and #21. Not to mention I can't think of another quickly successful rebuild that started the first year with a new coach working with a GM he clearly didn't trust or want to work with.

 

Yes, there are plenty of turnarounds that have been faster. But not rebuilds. People who try to refute this generally use as their examples teams that suddenly improved by a bunch of games in one year but were either reloading, just following the plan or were in years 4, 5 or 6 of their rebuilds. The 2008 Pennington Dolphins that improved by 10 games are often mentioned but that's a perfect example of a turnaround that was not a rebuild.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Sammy just can't be counted on to perform on a weekly basis.  There's been no consistency at any point in his career. And the fact that he's been on 3 teams reflects that. It wouldn't surprise me to see him have a quiet SB. But I will be rooting for him.

 

 

Me too.

 

I've never understood why Bills fans don't like the guy himself. On the other hand, it's also hard to understand those who argue that he's ever delivered on his potential or even come close. I always wonder if he still hasn't fully recovered from his foot problems.

 

I'll root for him, but I don't want him back unless his salary reflects his productivity rather than his potential.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Billsfan1972]

He's not coming back.....  I just never understood why they dumped him for next to nothing when he was the #4 pick, put up very respectable #'s & had recovered from his 2016 foot injury.

 

The Bills needed a #1 receiver & he was under contract (and they controlled year 5).

 

 

[Doc Brown]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

He's not coming back.....  I just never understood why they dumped him for next to nothing when he was the #4 pick, put up very respectable #'s & had recovered from his 2016 foot injury.

 

The Bills needed a #1 receiver & he was under contract (and they controlled year 5).

 

 

A 2nd rounder (plus EJ Gaines) at that point in time is pry the best they could get given his injury history and the fact that his rookie deal was almost up.  They may have lost him for nothing if they don't make that trade.  The Rams wasted a 2nd round pick on him.  He hasn't produced #1 WR numbers since 2015 even though he's being paid as one.  He's a frustrating player as he shows flashes of greatness but is woefully inconsistent.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

How many Bills fans actually know how a 21st century GM builds a roster?  After the likes of Donahoe, Marv/DJ, Buddy, and Whaley no one who started following the team during those years as a Bills fan could.  That is, unless they just don't follow front office trends around the league.  

 

It's why there's typically an angry response whenever a poster reveals that other rebuilds were much faster.  There are enough successful rebuilds by the 3rd complete season in the past decade that it should prompt Bills fans to wonder why McD has slow-walked Buffalo's rebuild.  

 

I guess at this point people will chime in to say OBD is doing it the right way and that's why it takes so long.  If that's the case, how did Philadelphia, Seattle, San Fran, and the LA Rams fast-track theirs and why shouldn't Buffalo be expected to do that either?  

 

Disingenuous. The niners had three consecutive 10 loss seasons prior to this year. There was nothing quick or easy about their turnaround.

[Teddy KGB]

8 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

He does not have the mentality of a 1.....he gets paid like a 1.....I would take him like I would take Corey Davis...but Davis would definately be cheaper

Corey Davis kinda stinks.  
 

7 hours ago, QCity said:

Watkins Whiners have been patiently waiting since his last TD to bump this thread. That was week 1, by the way.

 

well he has 200 plus yards in 2 playoff games, the games that matter.    Ya kno ? 
 

 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Disingenuous. The niners had three consecutive 10 loss seasons prior to this year. There was nothing quick or easy about their turnaround.

 

In fairness only two of those were this regime. But they had 4 pretty sucky seasons before this one - Tomsula x1, Kelly x1, Shanahan x2. 

 

I think the difference between the 9ers and the Bills is that they bottomed out. It is hard to find parallels for what the Bills have done because they have basically had a full rebuild in 3 years without bottoming out. Now that Zo has retired how many guys are left from the 2016 roster? Hughes and Shaq (who is an impending FA)? Teams traditionally don't manage to have that sort of turnaround without hitting the bottom even if they then have an impressive bounce back like the 49ers have this year.

 

The reason the Bills never bottomed out is that they are too well coached. McDermott has proven himself very adept at getting the most out of mediocre, then bad, then slightly above average rosters. I do understand those questioning "can he get more out of a good roster and make us contenders?" because that is yet to be proven. That is where it becomes more incumbent on Brandon Beane in my view to give him that roster. In his own words the job he has done in doing that on the offensive side in particular has not been good enough. The arguments about Sammy should now be consigned to history but they likely won't be until Beane gives McDermott a player of equivalent talent to put on the field. 

[Cripple Creek]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Do you think McDermott isn't a capable coach?

Apparently you do not believe so.

 

McDermott and Beane have talked about the need to rid the roster of certain players.  Watkins was one of those.  If you believe that McDermott is a capable coach then you put aside your own asinine, selfish ideas and you get past it, like an adult. 

 

Unless you were inside Whaley's head you have no idea why Mahomes was essentially traded to KC.  Did Whaley have him rated highly?  Did McDermott?  Do you expect McDermott, coming off a season as DC and entering a new building for a new job to have, in hindsight, properly evaluated Mahomes? If you believe that McDermott is a capable coach then put aside your own asinine, selfish ideas and get past it, like an adult. 

 

Everything should have been done to try to retain Gilmore.  Do you know it wasn't ? I certainly do not, but, I don't have highly placed sources.  That said, if you believe that McDermott is a capable coach then you put aside your own asinine, selfish ideas and you get past it, like an adult.

 

 

In short, get over it. Live in the moment, not the past.

[Billsfan1972]

37 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

A 2nd rounder (plus EJ Gaines) at that point in time is pry the best they could get given his injury history and the fact that his rookie deal was almost up.  They may have lost him for nothing if they don't make that trade.  The Rams wasted a 2nd round pick on him.  He hasn't produced #1 WR numbers since 2015 even though he's being paid as one.  He's a frustrating player as he shows flashes of greatness but is woefully inconsistent.

Would have rather seen what he could have done for 2017 as the Bills #1 receiver.

 

I really don't know what happened in LA as he should have been the #1 option, but was not.  Going to KC he was behind Hill & Kelce & after week 2 was not overly targeted (6/game).  You can only catch when thrown to.  

 

Even his catches yesterday he wasn't the primary target on many of them. 

[Billsfan1972]

7 hours ago, QCity said:

Watkins Whiners have been patiently waiting since his last TD to bump this thread. That was week 1, by the way.

No this thread was started by a Watkins hater wanting to stir up old threads/wounds & explain why he was traded and that he has a bad attitude.  

 

Watkins fans, and yep as the #4 pick by Buffalo I was excited for a stud #1 receiver who was traded for nothing to do with his on-field play, it was frustrating.

 

Again for all who disliked Watkins (probably only because the Bills traded up to get him, like they did with Allen), what did he do on the field that warranted him being traded & not have played for the Bills in 2017? 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[Boca BIlls]

1 out of every 17 games... Ain't bad?

10 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No this thread was started by a Watkins hater wanting to stir up old threads/wounds & explain why he was traded and that he has a bad attitude.  

 

Watkins fans, and yep as the #4 pick by Buffalo I was excited for a stud #1 receiver who was traded for nothing to do with his on-field play, it was frustrating.

 

Again for all who disliked Watkins (probably only because the Bills traded up to get him, like they did with Allen), what did he do on the field that warranted him being traded & not have played for the Bills in 2017? 

Stopped playing on a sure TD run and cost the Bills a TD against the Jets.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Boca BIlls

[FireChans]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In fairness only two of those were this regime. But they had 4 pretty sucky seasons before this one - Tomsula x1, Kelly x1, Shanahan x2. 

 

I think the difference between the 9ers and the Bills is that they bottomed out. It is hard to find parallels for what the Bills have done because they have basically had a full rebuild in 3 years without bottoming out. Now that Zo has retired how many guys are left from the 2016 roster? Hughes and Shaq (who is an impending FA)? Teams traditionally don't manage to have that sort of turnaround without hitting the bottom even if they then have an impressive bounce back like the 49ers have this year.

 

The reason the Bills never bottomed out is that they are too well coached. McDermott has proven himself very adept at getting the most out of mediocre, then bad, then slightly above average rosters. I do understand those questioning "can he get more out of a good roster and make us contenders?" because that is yet to be proven. That is where it becomes more incumbent on Brandon Beane in my view to give him that roster. In his own words the job he has done in doing that on the offensive side in particular has not been good enough. The arguments about Sammy should now be consigned to history but they likely won't be until Beane gives McDermott a player of equivalent talent to put on the field. 

The less talked about move that McD made early was letting Robert Woods leave the building. 2 consecutive 1000 yards seasons with the Rams. Hard worker. Good blocker. 

 

Watkins didn’t really pan out and was a good trade away but boy oh boy could the Bills and Allen used Woods in a big way. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

24 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

In short, get over it. Live in the moment, not the past.

 

Great advice. Wish more people would heed it.

 

18 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No this thread was started by a Watkins hater wanting to stir up old threads/wounds & explain why he was traded and that he has a bad attitude.  

 

Watkins fans, and yep as the #4 pick by Buffalo I was excited for a stud #1 receiver who was traded for nothing to do with his on-field play, it was frustrating.

 

Again for all who disliked Watkins (probably only because the Bills traded up to get him, like they did with Allen), what did he do on the field that warranted him being traded & not have played for the Bills in 2017? 

 

You mean when he was actually ON the field?

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

32 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again for all who disliked Watkins (probably only because the Bills traded up to get him, like they did with Allen), what did he do on the field that warranted him being traded & not have played for the Bills in 2017? 

if I had to summarize why people don’t like watkins:

 

1) gave up too much for him in the draft.

2) very talented, but didn’t match it production-wise

3) injury prone

4) beyond the injuries, there was a sense that he was soft and also not giving max effort

5) playing for the Rams, he was not good, yet people tried to claim he was playing the “decoy”

6) instead of going to be a number 1,

he signs up with KC to be their 4th offensive option (behind Hunt, Kelce, and Hill). 
7) extremely little production or targets on a prolific KC offense.

[Billsfan1972]

18 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Great advice. Wish more people would heed it.

 

 

You mean when he was actually ON the field?

 

 

He missed 8 games in 2016....  Players get injured.  He was recovered as far as we knew & ready for 2017.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm

 

In 2016 he had 1047 yards in 13 games, which is a 1300 yard pace....  

 

He averaged 16 yards a catch....  That was not too bad a start to a career.

3 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

if I had to summarize why people don’t like watkins:

 

1) gave up too much for him in the draft.

2) very talented, but didn’t match it production-wise

3) injury prone

4) beyond the injuries, there was a sense that he was soft and also not giving max effort

5) playing for the Rams, he was not good, yet people tried to claim he was playing the “decoy”

6) instead of going to be a number 1,

he signs up with KC to be their 4th offensive option (behind Hunt, Kelce, and Hill). 
7) extremely little production or targets on a prolific KC offense.

And paid $14,000,000/yr....  Some pretty stupid GM's (oh & going to the SB btw), while the Bills are smarter then them?

 

He had injuries, not the first & not the last.....  Playing soft & not much effort.  Show me examples.  If not targeted enough it is difficult imo, but didn't see it & this is the false narrative people love to point to without any proof.

 

Actually look at KC, & frankly it is very much focused on Kelce.  

[oldmanfan]

I wish we had not traded him, but if we still had him it is very unlikely he would be the stud #1 WR we’d all like to have given his record since the trade.

[Billl]

12 hours ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Exactly 

 

Sammy is the difference? Try again. 

He’s got 366 receiving yards in the postseason so far the last 2 seasons.  You don’t think that would have made a difference in an overtime loss?

[Coach Tuesday]

Sammy has not lived up to his contract in KC and I expect they’ll move on this offseason (and I also suspect he ends up back in the AFC East).  He has never lived up to his draft status and remains a high ceiling player who doesn’t seem to want to or know how to be great.  Those things are true.

 

It is also true that the McBeane regime royally screwed up the offense and roster by failing to exercise his option and ultimately trading him away with nothing to fill the void - they still have not filled the void.

 

All of these things can be true.

 

Sammy is long gone and probably never coming back and probably never achieving his potential so that aspect of this discussion is moot and should be closed forever.

 

What remains relevant however are legitimate concerns about this regime’s priorities and competencies when it comes to building an offense.  Simply put the jury is still out.  Can they scout and draft good players on offense?  Other than Singletary they’ve mostly struck out.  Does their pro personnel department know how to find hidden gems like Mostert?  Do they have a sound and sustainable approach to winning games, which includes scoring points?  McD continues to give lip service to the need to score more points then insists on roster decisions that favor “leadership in the position groups” over talent on offense.  These guys were very fortunate not to screw up their raw rookie QB with the borderline criminally negligent supporting cast they surrounded him with (no line, QB coach, vet QB mentor in camp, decent WR, etc.) - Allen is an extremely tough, intelligent, resilient player and person which saved their hides because many other young QBs would’ve been permanently screwed up after that sh-show.  So that probably saved McBeane’s job.  We all need to hope they make the most of their mulligan and not mistake their good luck for skill or sound strategy.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

25 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

He missed 8 games in 2016....  Players get injured.  He was recovered as far as we knew & ready for 2017.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm

 

In 2016 he had 1047 yards in 13 games, which is a 1300 yard pace....  

 

He averaged 16 yards a catch....  That was not too bad a start to a career.

And paid $14,000,000/yr....  Some pretty stupid GM's (oh & going to the SB btw), while the Bills are smarter then them?

 

He had injuries, not the first & not the last.....  Playing soft & not much effort.  Show me examples.  If not targeted enough it is difficult imo, but didn't see it & this is the false narrative people love to point to without any proof.

 

Actually look at KC, & frankly it is very much focused on Kelce.  

 
I am just telling you why people don’t like him, so don’t necessarily agree with all the reasons I listed.

 

But it is amazing how little production and targets he has had in KC with defenses focusing so much on Kelce, Hill, and Hunt (when he was there).

He’ll be a cap cut after this season too based on how his contract is structured.

[SoCal Deek]

I’d still rather have Robert Woods.

[papazoid]

42 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

if I had to summarize why people don’t like watkins:

 

1) gave up too much for him in the draft.

2) very talented, but didn’t match it production-wise

3) injury prone

4) beyond the injuries, there was a sense that he was soft and also not giving max effort

5) playing for the Rams, he was not good, yet people tried to claim he was playing the “decoy”

6) instead of going to be a number 1,

he signs up with KC to be their 4th offensive option (behind Hunt, Kelce, and Hill). 
7) extremely little production or targets on a prolific KC offense.

 

 

but other than this....sammy is destined for greatness....lol

 

this was the direct result of the decision maker (whaley) being on the hot seat...his future employment was at stake....he chose survival and risked mortgaging the teams future to save his own.

 

extend beane and mcclappity now.

[thebandit27]

58 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

if I had to summarize why people don’t like watkins:

 

1) gave up too much for him in the draft.

2) very talented, but didn’t match it production-wise

3) injury prone

4) beyond the injuries, there was a sense that he was soft and also not giving max effort

5) playing for the Rams, he was not good, yet people tried to claim he was playing the “decoy”

6) instead of going to be a number 1,

he signs up with KC to be their 4th offensive option (behind Hunt, Kelce, and Hill). 
7) extremely little production or targets on a prolific KC offense.

To be fair:

1) it’s not his fault that someone traded up for him

2) he had 2100 yards and 15 TDs in his first 2 seasons. It was very similar to Julio’s first 2 NFL seasons, and I doubt anyone would’ve called him unproductive at that point.

3) absolutely; availability is numero uno

4) No idea why people thought that. He tried to play through a mismanaged injury and the team doc eventually shut him down.

5) he lead the Rams in TD receptions in his only season there

6) oh come on now, he went where he was offered the most money

7) legitimate question; maybe it’s a comfort level thing, and maybe he’s just not one of their 3 best targets. Confusing for sure.

[Billsfan1972]

16 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

 

but other than this....sammy is destined for greatness....lol

 

this was the direct result of the decision maker (whaley) being on the hot seat...his future employment was at stake....he chose survival and risked mortgaging the teams future to save his own.

 

extend beane and mcclappity now.

Really????  Because they gutted the offense????  The 25-25 record???

 

They seem to have gotten it 50% right, with a very good defense and little thought to the other side.

 

If ever the jury was out it is this regime.  

[teef]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

Really????  Because they gutted the offense????  The 25-25 record???

 

They seem to have gotten it 50% right, with a very good defense and little thought to the other side.

 

If ever the jury was out it is this regime.  

you keep mentioning an overall 25-25 record, but forget to mention the two playoff appearances in 2 years.  why is that?

[papazoid]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Really????  Because they gutted the offense????  The 25-25 record???

 

They seem to have gotten it 50% right, with a very good defense and little thought to the other side.

 

If ever the jury was out it is this regime.  

 

 

i value continuity.......constant regime change usually hurts teams

 

they inherited a dumpster fire.....too many bad contracts

 

they purged most while still making the playoffs 2 of 3 years.

 

they have close to $100 mil in cap space for 2020

 

sure they have missed on several players in the process

 

but the good far outweighs the bad.....retaining them for another 5 years each is an easy decision for me.