NewEra Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Lurker said: Not the way this defense is structured, which is to keep everything in front of them.  They don't break up passes because very few deep balls are even attempted against them.    Next topic... this was going to be my quick answer.  But they both had some missed plays. on that note i do agree with most here, one of the best tandems. Hopefully Poyers wife is okay with him remaining a Bill for another year or two........... Hyde all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Nick the Greek said: More crappy players on our top rated D. It’s amazing we were ranked so high with so many awful players. Math is funny these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 3 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:   Poyer was a bit lackluster Feel like his name got called good portion of missed tackles and breakdowns. I agree their stats would look better if teams were attacking downfield which is not where they hurt the Bills this season. Or if we were more of a attacking defense vs the bend dont break approach. Tackling in general was sloppy and more so the second part of the year. When you play a lot of zone and allow short catches you have to limit the yardage after the reception with a quick clean tackle I though the Bills were a bit suspect there (this is not directly aimed at Poyer/Hyde) Checkdowns seemed to be a Kryptonite this season Very good pointS with zone D etc... It seemed at times nit Just Poyer but the D as a whole was sloppy with tackling. It could also be because the amount they were on the field due to our offensive woes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 14 hours ago, Happy Days said: They only combined for 5 pass breakups and 3 ints. Those are pretty disappointing numbers this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Days Lois & Clark Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 14 hours ago, GreggTX said: We have perhaps the best safety tandem in the NFL. Period. looking up a handful AFC teams at random as a reference Baltimore’s Safety tandem (Clark and Thomas) had 13 pass breakups  and 3 ints Jets Safety tandem (Adams and Maye) had 14 pass breakups and 2 ints KC safety tandem (Mathieu and Thornhill) had 17 pass breakups and 7 ints Denver safety tandem (Simmons and Parks )  had 17 pass breakups and 5 ints Raiders safety tandem  ( Harris and Joyner ) had 11 pass breakups and 3 ints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Obviously there is a story to tell behind those stats. I couldn't possibly care less if someone has a low stat total when the defense, as a whole, is killing it.  Sometimes you have to see the whole picture.  An absolute terrible thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 14 hours ago, Happy Days said: They only combined for 5 pass breakups and 3 ints. Those are pretty disappointing numbers this season. This thread is disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Days Lois & Clark Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) Â Teams throughout the league get double digit pass breakups from their safeties. The Bills Safties were near the bottom of the league in pass breakups. That should be notable. Edited January 11, 2020 by Happy Days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 It is a well known fact the defensive players can be measured by their stats.........only IDP in fantasy football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKayAdams Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 3 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: No pass rush. In fact most of the QB sacks were coverage sacks. You are looking at the wrong part of the defense that needs to be fixed.  This was my interpretation of the stats as well. The defense's sack totals were higher than expected, while the pass breakups and interceptions lower than expected, because fewer QB's were willing to take chances against the back 7...of which Hyde and Poyer play a key role. Buffalo's defense has a reputation for being perhaps the best in the league at disguising coverages. Buffalo also led the league in fewest pass plays given up of 20+ yards (34 all season). They deliberately scheme to keep everything in front of them, which can limit the opportunities for safeties to get interceptions and pass breakups. Also, I think some of y'all either don't watch enough football outside the Bills or are having memory selectivity biases. Safeties are missing tackles and giving up pass plays all the time...even the very best ones. Overall, Hyde and Poyer are excellent. Neal and J. Johnson are looking good, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said: Very good pointS with zone D etc... It seemed at times nit Just Poyer but the D as a whole was sloppy with tackling. It could also be because the amount they were on the field due to our offensive woes.     Bills offense time of possession was 29:59 for the season which strangely enough is very similar to the stat for 2018 By eyeball the offense was much better in 2019 then 2018 So that stat is probably more skewed by the style the defense plays At some point McDermott/Frazier need to be more aggressive on defense.   After all its not the offense that allows 15 play drives. That said a lot of those longer drives were extended by sloppy tackling which again might be from fatigue. Sometimes you gotta take a shot to get a team off the field instead of waiting for them to mess up on their own. What we can hope is that 1. the offense gets more potent and the opposing teams press more leading to turnovers/less wear and tear on the defense  2. we get a elite edge rusher or someone develops that can dominate at the los without needing to scheme pressure No offense to our D line but a lot of the pressures were from stunts/scheme and coverage.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 They were fine. Nothing spectacular or pro bowl worthy. They do their job based on the zone drop we run. The problem with our defense is we don't blitz enough. Only complaint re: the D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elite Poster Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 They are good. Simple stats do not tell the whole story. Next. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 47 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:     Bills offense time of possession was 29:59 for the season which strangely enough is very similar to the stat for 2018 By eyeball the offense was much better in 2019 then 2018 So that stat is probably more skewed by the style the defense plays At some point McDermott/Frazier need to be more aggressive on defense.   After all its not the offense that allows 15 play drives. That said a lot of those longer drives were extended by sloppy tackling which again might be from fatigue. Sometimes you gotta take a shot to get a team off the field instead of waiting for them to mess up on their own. What we can hope is that 1. the offense gets more potent and the opposing teams press more leading to turnovers/less wear and tear on the defense  2. we get a elite edge rusher or someone develops that can dominate at the los without needing to scheme pressure No offense to our D line but a lot of the pressures were from stunts/scheme and coverage.   I was thinking the same thing- we allowed some really long drives this season! Hopefully we can find balance between the 2. Thats what good teams do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 1/10/2020 at 11:27 PM, Happy Days said: They only combined for 5 pass breakups and 3 ints. Those are pretty disappointing numbers this season.  The only team that had as few of pass breakups from their safeties in the AFC as The Bills was The Colts. Did not look up the NFC  Micah Hyde was PFF's top-graded Bills player on defense in 2019 https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/16/micah-hyde-pro-football-focus-top-buffalo-bills-2019/   Tre’Davious White had a fantastic season for the Buffalo Bills defense and was showered with awards and honor, highlighted by his first All-Pro nod.  However, White was only Pro Football Focus’ third-best graded defender on the Bills defense from the 2019 NFL season.  The top-graded man was safety Micah Hyde, who earned a 78.4 overall mark. That made Hyde PFF’s 11th best safety in the NFL this season. Included in Hyde’s overall grade is his coverage grade, which clocked in at 80.5, the 10th best in the NFL among qualifying safeties.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Stats can be misleading without context.  At this point, I don't care what PFF or Football Outsiders says... or what random stat is brought up to criticize individual players in our defense. I've read recent articles that say Tre White is overrated, Jordan Phillips is a below average lineman, Matt Milano can't tackle, etc. Now we are knocking Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer, who are two key pieces in one of the NFL's best pass defenses 3 years running.  Bottom line -- this defense performed at a Super Bowl level in 2019. Outside of maybe the Philadelphia game, they put us in a position to win every single other game this year. That would be 16 of 17 total games on the year. If we could count on our offense to put up just 25 points, we would have beaten the Patriots both times, the Browns, the Ravens, the final Jets game, and the Wild Card Round.  15 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:  Micah Hyde was PFF's top-graded Bills player on defense in 2019 https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/16/micah-hyde-pro-football-focus-top-buffalo-bills-2019/   Tre’Davious White had a fantastic season for the Buffalo Bills defense and was showered with awards and honor, highlighted by his first All-Pro nod.  However, White was only Pro Football Focus’ third-best graded defender on the Bills defense from the 2019 NFL season.  The top-graded man was safety Micah Hyde, who earned a 78.4 overall mark. That made Hyde PFF’s 11th best safety in the NFL this season. Included in Hyde’s overall grade is his coverage grade, which clocked in at 80.5, the 10th best in the NFL among qualifying safeties.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  Like I said in another thread... I doubt anyone could come up with more than 2-3 defenses that played better in 2019 than the Bills. And that is being extremely generous.  However, Micah Hyde was our BEST RANKED player for the year. And he wasn't even Top 10 at his position. How can PFF justify that?  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:  Micah Hyde was PFF's top-graded Bills player on defense in 2019 https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/16/micah-hyde-pro-football-focus-top-buffalo-bills-2019/   Tre’Davious White had a fantastic season for the Buffalo Bills defense and was showered with awards and honor, highlighted by his first All-Pro nod.  However, White was only Pro Football Focus’ third-best graded defender on the Bills defense from the 2019 NFL season.  The top-graded man was safety Micah Hyde, who earned a 78.4 overall mark. That made Hyde PFF’s 11th best safety in the NFL this season. Included in Hyde’s overall grade is his coverage grade, which clocked in at 80.5, the 10th best in the NFL among qualifying safeties.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  Ah yes more of those arbitrary "we're doing something meticulous and data-driven that produces a number, but we can't tell you exactly what that is" PFF grades. Don't like 'em when they're bad, don't like 'em when they're good.  Isn't it kind of strange that PFF has a grading system that's supposed to explicitly account for a player's value to the team - a key stop on 3rd down is supposed to count for more than an tackle after equivalent yardage on a less critical play - the Bills had the #2 defense on points given up and #3 on yards, #4 for passing yards - and yet their best player, who seems to be acknowledged as one of the best safeties in the game right now , grades out #11 with PFF?  SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, mjt328 said: At this point, I don't care what PFF or Football Outsiders says... or what random stat is brought up to criticize individual players in our defense. I've read recent articles that say Tre White is overrated, Jordan Phillips is a below average lineman, Matt Milano can't tackle, etc. Now we are knocking Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer, who are two key pieces in one of the NFL's best pass defenses 3 years running.  Right On! "Buffalo Vs. Everybody"  Quote Like I said in another thread... I doubt anyone could come up with more than 2-3 defenses that played better in 2019 than the Bills. And that is being extremely generous.  However, Micah Hyde was our BEST RANKED player for the year. And he wasn't even Top 10 at his position. How can PFF justify that?  I agree with you. It's not even "come up with", by the most important stats for a defense - points given up and yards given up - Bills are top 2 or 3.  Sure, places that need improvement like turnovers and penalties, but overall, you're right on.  For a "Devil's Advocate" argument, I will say we are a "Do Your 1/11" Defense where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, so one might expect that the individual players might not have as outstanding stats. But that's actually a further indictment of the Special Secret Sauce stats these outfits put out because they are supposed to be explicitly designed to measure a player's contribution to the team vs. just individual stats.  All that said, Matt Milano really does need to work on his tackling.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, mjt328 said: Stats can be misleading without context.  At this point, I don't care what PFF or Football Outsiders says... or what random stat is brought up to criticize individual players in our defense. I've read recent articles that say Tre White is overrated, Jordan Phillips is a below average lineman, Matt Milano can't tackle, etc. Now we are knocking Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer, who are two key pieces in one of the NFL's best pass defenses 3 years running.  Bottom line -- this defense performed at a Super Bowl level in 2019. Outside of maybe the Philadelphia game, they put us in a position to win every single other game this year. That would be 16 of 17 total games on the year. If we could count on our offense to put up just 25 points, we would have beaten the Patriots both times, the Browns, the Ravens, the final Jets game, and the Wild Card Round.   Like I said in another thread... I doubt anyone could come up with more than 2-3 defenses that played better in 2019 than the Bills. And that is being extremely generous.  However, Micah Hyde was our BEST RANKED player for the year. And he wasn't even Top 10 at his position. How can PFF justify that?   Trust me I'm not a PFF guy.  I just put it out there for discussion  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I will continue to say while they are both nice players we should not overpay them. In this system there are a lot of people who could do their jobs. They regressed this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, Hebert19 said: I will continue to say while they are both nice players we should not overpay them. In this system there are a lot of people who could do their jobs. They regressed this year  By what criteria or criterion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 The Bills rank #1 in the NFL 3 years running for allowing the fewest 40+ yard passes...pretty obvious they are doing their job well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Some of this may be based on recency bias -- that is, neither of them (especially Poyer) played especially well during the later part of the Houston game. Of course, the defense as a whole had numerous melt-downs. Â That aside, during the course of the regular season, I felt like that Poyer-Hyde tandem was one one the best in the league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Our safety duo is a strength of this defense.  Hyde in particular is a top shelf safety.  Poyer is good, but not on his level.  Are they the top duo in the NFL?  No, but they’re well beyond good enough.  My only real concerns with the position is depth/injury and that Poyer will hold out this year for a contract well above his actual value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I said in my year in review that I thought both had down years by their standards. BUT they still played well in a top 5 defense. Additionally with the defense now rounding into what McD wants I do not think they have gotten the same amount of opportunities as they had in the previous two years. Additionally I do not think teams are as aggressive deep because of their play making skills. In 2017-18 teams basically tested what they could do against them and regularly got burned. By now your better off staying short then pushing it on them. Judging a player on stats alone is dangerous in the NFL given how misleading certain things can be. Between Hyde Poyer and White they shut down a majority of the field to the point offenses only have the CB2 to really target. Â I do think Poyer could be gone after this year or possibly cut if they draft a safety for less money as he has outplayed his contract but you can find safeties on the cheap. Hyde's coverage skills really though are top notch. His pick on Brady against NE showed as much and even BB was impressed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Poyer led the NFL in td returns on attempted onside kicks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Nitpicking 101 thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123719bwiqrb Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Poyer led the NFL in td returns on attempted onside kicks! You mean Hyde. Â Poyer leads the league in goofy social media posts by a wife. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 1/10/2020 at 11:27 PM, Happy Days said: They only combined for 5 pass breakups and 3 ints. Those are pretty disappointing numbers this season.  The only team that had as few of pass breakups from their safeties in the AFC as The Bills was The Colts. Did not look up the NFC  This is the danger of looking at one particular stat and drawing conclusions from it. The Bills led the league in fewest "big passing plays" for the third straight year. That is directly attributable to the play of their safeties. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I would be concerned more about the stats on the percent of the time that they were targeted and the receiver completed the pass attempt on them than the breakups or intercepts. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 As others have said I would chalk it up to less pressure/blitzes this year from Leslie. But their numbers and impact was slightly down. When your the #2 defense in the NFL, you can't complain about much. We will have to draft a safety next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Poyer had a few bad plays that cost us big this year but he's worth more than he's making. Hopefully they pay him what he deserves which is about double what he's making. 2 hours ago, matter2003 said: The Bills rank #1 in the NFL 3 years running for allowing the fewest 40+ yard passes...pretty obvious they are doing their job well. I know of 1 Poyer allowed this season in the Baltimore game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Poyer had a few bad plays that cost us big this year but he's worth more than he's making. Hopefully they pay him what he deserves which is about double what he's making. I know of 1 Poyer allowed this season in the Baltimore game.  And your point is? Teams are going to get a few of them no matter how good you are...I think it says volumes they have allowed the fewest number of them for 3 years running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 1/11/2020 at 9:38 AM, Penfield45 said:  no we don't. Hyde is top 5 safety in the league but Poyer is a bang average player. Opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) On 1/10/2020 at 11:27 PM, Happy Days said: They only combined for 5 pass breakups and 3 ints. Those are pretty disappointing numbers this season.  The only team that had as few of pass breakups from their safeties in the AFC as The Bills was The Colts. Did not look up the NFC Why do you leave out the other splash plays like the 5FF and 4FR and 2 sacks? Edited January 17, 2020 by MAJBobby 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan692 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 1/11/2020 at 6:21 AM, Lurker said: Not the way this defense is structured, which is to keep everything in front of them.  They don't break up passes because very few deep balls are even attempted against them.    Next topic... That also makes them look better then they are really.... Just saying, I'd keep hyde but don't know about poyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, matter2003 said:  And your point is? Teams are going to get a few of them no matter how good you are...I think it says volumes they have allowed the fewest number of them for 3 years running  I do think the coaching staff puts our DB's in perfect position to succeed so they might be slightly overrated. That said they are one of the most successful groups in the NFL and we should keep them together for as long as they keep having success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Hebert19 said: I will continue to say while they are both nice players we should not overpay them. In this system there are a lot of people who could do their jobs. They regressed this year  and they end up in NE?   hell no.   Pay them what is deserved  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetkings01 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Poyer and Hyde the new whipping boys.......got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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