Duke Williams played more snaps than Cole Beasley

[HappyDays]

19 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Perfectly placed? It looked overthrown to me and Williams was able to stretch his hand out just to get a piece of it.

 

 

Not sure what you saw. This is as perfect as it gets. I watched it in slow motion. It hits Duke right in his hands. The defender is making some contact but I don't think he gets his hand on the ball. Duke just flubbed it.

[Teddy KGB]

24 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Perfectly placed? 

Yes, Picture perfect.     Duke has to make

that play if he wants to be active on Sundays

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

Not sure what you saw. This is as perfect as it gets. I watched it in slow motion. It hits Duke right in his hands. The defender is making some contact but I don't think he gets his hand on the ball. Duke just flubbed it.

It WAS a perfect throw, and Duke got both hands on it.   But on the closeup replays you could see the defender got a good swipe at the ball with his right hand (he missed), but then his left arm came around Duke's body and hit Duke's elbow just as he was about to secure it.  That's when the ball came out.   Was it enough contact to forcibly knock the ball out?  I don't think so, but it was enough to disrupt the catch.  Duke will tell you he should have caught it, but it was a well-defended play.   

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Fans got what they wanted, and not surprisingly, it didn't work.

he made the toughest catches of anyone of the bills. Would had the most yards too if that sideline beauty wasn’t called back due to Ford holding 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

he made the toughest catches of anyone of the bills. Would had the most yards too if that sideline beauty wasn’t called back due to Ford holding 

And dropped the ONE pass he needed to catch that hit him in the hands.

 

 

[Dr.Sack]

Josh Allen needs a few more dynamic targets who can get separation, catch contested throws (back shoulder, 50/50 jump balls), and have great hands. We need to upgrade Gore’s #2 RB position, get a dominate LB to replace Alexander & improve our #2 corner position.
 

[JoshAllin]

Didnt mind this, big target for allen 16-0 half, hurt his foot before half, not sure if this impacted him much

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

And dropped the ONE pass he needed to catch that hit him in the hands.

 

 

We all wish that pass was caught, I’m not saying he some superstar.  This WR is a bunch of 3s, 4s and 5s on most any other team 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBill963 said:

Actually last night was more proof that pro Duke people were right. You guys just won’t admit you’re wrong and also act like Duke is a problem of some kind that held other player back.

 

The problem isn't Duke playing, the problem is whether it's Duke, McKenzie or Foster as the #2 WR doesn't scare any defenses at all.  Duke played OK considering the situation.  The real issue the entire season was the regression of Foster.  I wonder if they had realized Foster was never going to improve all year if they had to do it all over, would they have traded Zay? 

 

Maybe it will come out now that Foster had some type of injury, but my suspicion is his issue is between his ears, or maybe more in his chest.

 

IMO the Bills need to sign a FA WR, and unless it's Amari Cooper I'd just as soon see them save money and diva time and sign a possession guy but with size and draft i n the 2nd round another WR.  Assuming that happens, two new guys, plus Beasley, Brown and Roberts, leaves little room for Duke, McKenzie or Foster.  Of the three, I'd give the best chance of sticking around next year to McKenzie as he provides a certain trick play ability.  But as someone else mentioned, barring a huge improvement in the off season, if Duke is around next season, the team didn't likely do enough to improve.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

We all wish that pass was caught, I’m not saying he some superstar.  This WR is a bunch of 3s, 4s and 5s on most any other team 

John Brown is a good 2. Beasley is a good slot. We don't have that clear 1 but maybe the bigger problem is we really don't have a clear 3 either. We need to upgrade WR depth most of all. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said:

Agree to disagree. 

 

Fair

[billsfan_34]

3 hours ago, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said:

Beasley is unreliable. He has suspect hands, and his knee down before the marker on 3rd and long is a perfect example of his limitations in big spots. It’s the reason he was phased out of the offense in Dallas.

 

He is not now, nor has he ever been, a reliable “Edelman-like” player.

Duke should of been 2 all year with Beasley at the 3 slot. Yet another Daboll mistake.

[RobbRiddicksTDLeap]

9 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Duke should of been 2 all year with Beasley at the 3 slot. Yet another Daboll mistake.

I don’t know that’s true. I think he spent his time on the PS getting into NFL game shape. It’s a lot different than the CFL, especially lining up in formation and rules of motion. I think he was stashed away on the 53 to protect him from being poached. I have zero issue with the approach the staff or FO took with him this season. 

[billsfan_34]

15 minutes ago, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said:

I don’t know that’s true. I think he spent his time on the PS getting into NFL game shape. It’s a lot different than the CFL, especially lining up in formation and rules of motion. I think he was stashed away on the 53 to protect him from being poached. I have zero issue with the approach the staff or FO took with him this season. 

I wouldn’t of left him on the PS either but training camp, pre season etc had to of had him in football shape. Anyways, on to next year it is what it is.

Edited January 5, 2020 by billsfan_34

[TPS]

51 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

And dropped the ONE pass he needed to catch that hit him in the hands.

 

 

So you're saying they would've won had Foster played instead of Duke?

Easy to criticize, but what would you have done?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, TPS said:

So you're saying they would've won had Foster played instead of Duke?

Easy to criticize, but what would you have done?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying Duke isn't what his fan club thinks he is

[atlbillsfan1975]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying Duke isn't what his fan club thinks he is

exactly right.

Duke is an average speed large wide receiver.

He did show that Allen will benefit from a big physical WR. I think this will get addressed this offseason.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, atlbillsfan1975 said:

exactly right.

Duke is an average speed large wide receiver.

He did show that Allen will benefit from a big physical WR. I think this will get addressed this offseason.

 

 

Should have been addressed this past offseason.

 

Some (well one) of us were pounding the table for it.

 

[TPS]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying Duke isn't what his fan club thinks he is

What most of us have been suggesting, given the roster, he is a better option than Foster.  You suggested playing "Duke "didn't work." It's clear that he gave the Bills passing game more than Foster has all season.  So what makes you say it didn't work, one play?

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Should have been addressed this past offseason.

 

Some (well one) of us were pounding the table for it.

 

I hear ya. I think they believed Foster was going to develop, not really sure what happened there. 
They are just a few pieces away. A big physical WR is one of them. I am wondering if Beane will draft one in the first round. Since Sean became HC the Bills have gone heavy D in the first. I don’t think they can go wrong picking a WR or Edge rusher this next draft in the first. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, TPS said:

What most of us have been suggesting, given the roster, he is a better option than Foster.  You suggested playing "Duke "didn't work." It's clear that he gave the Bills passing game more than Foster has all season.  So what makes you say it didn't work, one play?

 

 

I think the expectation was that he was gonna come out and light up the texans for 100+.

 

That clearly didn't happen

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Should have been addressed this past offseason.

 

Some (well one) of us were pounding the table for it.

 

Can't do everything in 1 season. They focused on the OL. They will add a premier WR talent this offseason plus depth.

[Teddy KGB]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Can't do everything in 1 season. They focused on the OL. They will add a premier WR talent this offseason plus depth.

Easily could have drafted Brown or Metcalf over Ford and we would be in round 2 

[TPS]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I think the expectation was that he was gonna come out and light up the texans for 100+.

 

That clearly didn't happen

 

You're creating a straw man argument. Most of what I've seen is people suggesting they needed a bigger target as an option, especially with Foster's lack of production. From my perspective, he produced significantly more than I expected as the fourth WR, and he gave them the opportunity to actually make that type of throw to the end zone.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Easily could have drafted Brown or Metcalf over Ford and we would be in round 2 

They wanted to improve the OL 1st.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If he is on the roster next year we have not done a good job in the offseason.

 

I don't ardently disagree but I think they could add a lot of guys and still have room for Duke.

 

There is one WR above replacement level on this roster:   John Brown

 

What Beasley provides in the short area he taketh away with his lack of anything else..........but he's the second best WR.

 

Duke is actually the 3rd least replaceable........which is sad.......he actually has a useful skillset as a physical possession receiver with some potential for big plays downfield. 

 

If McKenzie is your WR6 or WR7 then *maybe* that's OK but he's barely above practice squad level because he can't return kicks.

 

Roberts is a waste of a roster spot...........he catches punts.........they gotta' find someone who can do that and more.  

 

Foster is an unknown but it doesn't look good and you can't worry about saving a roster spot for him anymore.

 

 

[Rock'em Sock'em]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

And dropped the ONE pass he needed to catch that hit him in the hands.

Nearly a perfect pass.  Good coverage.  He probably makes this catch more than half the time.

[familykwi]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

If he is on the roster next year we have not done a good job in the offseason.

Duke will have a full off season with the team.  Hopefully he'll progress.  To assume he is as good as he's going to be is illogical.  I do like the timing/rapport he has with Josh already.  I think he can be an asset, but I don't expect more than a WR4, or WR5 role. 

 

If he were to lead the team in targets next year, either he has made incredible strides, or we're in trouble.

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I can't believe that people are on here criticizing Duke Williams, but when it comes to John Brown, crickets... His failure to stay in bounds was a huge play in the game. That was a routine sideline grab and should have set us up first and goal. People wanted to call HIM a #1 receiver? He's a soft, finesse player who needs to work in space opposite a true #1.

 

I cant find it now but someone was actually defending Brown on that play saying that Allen threw the ball late and Brown had no room.  HAHAHAHAHA.  The ball was fine and Brown had plenty of room.  He didn't even need to leave his feet.

 

I have no freaking clue how he didn't keep his feet in here.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Scott7975

[TPS]

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I don't ardently disagree but I think they could add a lot of guys and still have room for Duke.

 

There is one WR above replacement level on this roster:   John Brown

 

What Beasley provides in the short area he taketh away with his lack of anything else..........but he's the second best WR.

 

Duke is actually the 3rd least replaceable........which is sad.......he actually has a useful skillset as a physical possession receiver with some potential for big plays downfield. 

 

If McKenzie is your WR6 or WR7 then *maybe* that's OK but he's barely above practice squad level because he can't return kicks.

 

Roberts is a waste of a roster spot...........he catches punts.........they gotta' find someone who can do that and more.  

 

Foster is an unknown but it doesn't look good and you can't worry about saving a roster spot for him anymore.

 

 

Good assessment. It’s too bad they can’t find someone who is a beasely/McKenzie hybrid. As it is, they have too many one-trick WRs. 

Oh, btw, I got slammed for suggesting Roberts was a waste...

Edited January 5, 2020 by TPS

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, familykwi said:

Duke will have a full off season with the team.  Hopefully he'll progress.  To assume he is as good as he's going to be is illogical.  I do like the timing/rapport he has with Josh already.  I think he can be an asset, but I don't expect more than a WR4, or WR5 role. 

 

If he were to lead the team in targets next year, either he has made incredible strides, or we're in trouble.

 

He isn't very good. 

[LABILLBACKER]

38 minutes ago, TPS said:

Good assessment. It’s too bad they can’t find someone who is a beasely/McKenzie hybrid. As it is, they have too many one-trick WRs. 

Oh, btw, I got slammed for suggesting Roberts was a waste...

That's exactly who they need. A hybrid nickel DB who can also be your returner and gunner too on ST. Duke should never have sat 1 game. We do have too many one dimensional wrs. 

 

3 in 1

 

[DuckyBoys]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying Duke isn't what his fan club thinks he is

no he's just better than the dumpster fire on our depth chart after Brown and Beasley  We had arguably the worst wr core in the NFL

[Jerry Jabber]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

Not sure what you saw. This is as perfect as it gets. I watched it in slow motion. It hits Duke right in his hands. The defender is making some contact but I don't think he gets his hand on the ball. Duke just flubbed it.

My mistake. The one I was thinking of was in the end zone as well and Josh over threw Williams by a yard. 
 

That play eerily reminds me of Ronnie Harmon in 1989 when the Bills lost to the Browns. I’m still not down on Williams. He’s barely played this year which was baffling considering Robert Foster did next to nothing all season long. Maybe if Williams played all season long, had more game time experience, it’s possible he makes the catch? (Not making excuses for him). I know Williams was devastated afterwards, especially with being out of the NFL and the long hard road to get back and have another opportunity. There’s plenty of blame to go around on this loss. I hope everyone involved (players, coaches) use this as motivation in the offseason to get better.

[LABILLBACKER]

13 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

no he's just better than the dumpster fire on our depth chart after Brown and Beasley  We had arguably the worst wr core in the NFL

I could be wrong but I think the Bills were the only NFL team to feature (based on targets) only 2 wrs this year. We had no #3 at all.

[Gunsgoodtime]

6 hours ago, TheProcess said:

100% disagree, and completely discounts the big third down catches he had to pick up first downs. Duke was active as he should’ve been all year. Made some big catches and Josh clearly trusted him to make a play. Yes, unacceptably dropped the TD, but name a receiver that hasn’t dropped a TD. It happens sometimes. Doesn’t mean he shouldn't be active. 

 

With that said, we definitely need to upgrade the weapons Josh has at his disposal next year. If Beane doesn’t neglect offensive weapons this offseason, guys like Bob Foster, McKenzie, and Duke will have a tough time making the team next year. Only receiver guarantees should be Brown and Beasley. Everyone else could be upgraded. 

This.  Need to go after WR bad this offseason, not just bring in one, but a few so we can score some freaking points.  Our current WR roster is average to below average, it needs to be upgraded badly.  John Brown should not be the number 1 wr, he has never been on his previous teams.  I like the guy, but we need upgrades to a real NFL WR group, we upgraded this year from where we was, but we need to upgrade again and make a real NFL WR roster.  John Brown and Cole Beasley are the only ones that should be considered locks imo.  Replace WR like we did Oline this year, and also continue to upgrade on the OL as well

[buffalo2218]

Late in replying to this, and this is rather puzzling from the Duke haters' perspective. I would understand the argument if Duke had played the whole season and getting more reps with Allen. All I'm seeing from the Duke hate boys is either he's not very good, or the almighty the coaches know better. If McDermott can give Zay Jones that many chances in 3 years, then be fair and give Duke at least one. Lack of reps and the guy still turned in a solid performance when he did play. Everyone saying he's bad because he missed a TD pass, does that mean Smoke should be treated the same after the drop against Baltimore? As far as hands go, I think Duke is as good if not better than our 1 and 2 WR.

 

Then I read something that oh he celebrates after he makes a catch, so what? I don't care if he break dances after a catch as long as he catches the ball. He caught the game winner against the Titans and the over the shoulder catch against Washington wasn't exactly an easy catch in itself. I'm hoping he gets a legit chance next year

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Aussie Joe]

When McD says "we could have done a better job" of getting so and so the ball, or x player more involved, is this a criticism of Dabs?? 

[ILBillsfan]

5 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

When McD says "we could have done a better job" of getting so and so the ball, or x player more involved, is this a criticism of Dabs?? 

lot of plays at the end of the game and the graphic at bottom showed the WR's and it read Brown McKenzie Williams...McKenzie was on the field vs Beasley.... looked like a Daboll thing imo course I have no clue who is saying what WR's to run out there.