Please draft offense

[Beast]

36 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t even fathom how pissed ill be if they draft defense in the first, but I can really see Beane getting someone like Yetur Gross-Matos if he’s there. Then we will select the best available WR at the end of round two. It’s a joke. 

Yes. You should be our GM. We’d be undefeated,

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Almost forgot the dime Allen threw to McKenzie in the corner of the endzone for what I believe would have been a 20 yard TD. McKenzie dropped it. Would have been a pretty tough catch but that's the point, we don't have anyone capable of making that play.

Great point. A talented WR makes that catch. 

[DuckyBoys]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Almost forgot the dime Allen threw to McKenzie in the corner of the endzone for what I believe would have been a 20 yard TD. McKenzie dropped it. Would have been a pretty tough catch but that's the point, we don't have anyone capable of making that play.

yeah he tried to catch it with his gut  We have a bunch of stomach catchers on this team  I hope they go hard after a elite talent in free agency

[Niagara Dude]

52 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

franchise LT and WR needed. Also new RT needed. 

 

we need at least 2 new WR's 

What your saying they really have no play makers and despite making the playoffs will most likely lose in opening round.  You cannot win against good team without play makers and even our starting RB is not good enough because he lacks great speed and this is why he gets hit behind the line so often.  WR is biggest need,  Josh has a hard time throwing over LB'S to small guys without throwing over the heads because they are short.  The TE KNOX killed the one drive in the 3rd after they scored and we had an opportunity to answer,  how times has this guy dropped passes right in his hands?

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

This is inarguable.   Our defense really can’t play any better than it’s played this year.  With an above average offense, we’d be 11-2 or better.  And no, we don’t desperately need an edge rusher, although would be nice if we signed one in FA.  We are generating more than enough pressure.  

I would draft 80% offense and half my Free agents offense. If McDermott doesn't figure it out soon that his offense is deficient,  than he's going to pay the price. 

[SinceThe70s]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Not at all. However, it’s clear as day what could help this team go to the next level and it’s never too early to start talking about it. 

 

Sounded like another reactionary post to a loss to me, particularly given the timing. I see a lot of that BS here.

 

What constitutes the next level to you? Had we won today would that have been a next step?

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I would draft 80% offense and half my Free agents offense. If McDermott doesn't figure it out soon that his offense is deficient,  than he's going to pay the price. 

Yeah and that would be a shame. He needs to learn to value the offense like he does his defense. 

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Great point. A talented WR makes that catch. 

 

I was at the stadium and nothing frustrated me more than that drop and the drop by Beasley. Those were Allen's 2 best throws of the day by my count and they were wasted. The Beasley one especially - Allen immediately rolled out of the pocket and pointed to Beasley basically telling him to run up field, then he throws a perfectly placed pass on the run 30 yards down field and Beasley alligator arms it. Now it's 4th down and we have to punt. So I come here after the game and people are saying Allen was the primary reason we lost? Not by my eyes he wasn't. Not his best game by any means but I see some of these "inaccurate" passes caught by other teams regularly. Even the arm punt to Foster, I've seen Willie Snead make that catch for Lamar Jackson a couple of times. Just feels like we are missing a certain caliber of receiver that all the top offenses have.

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Sounded like another reactionary post to a loss to me, particularly given the timing. I see a lot of that BS here.

 

What constitutes the next level to you? Had we won today would that have been a next step?

Our offense not being a liability. That’s the next step. We don’t currently have game breaking receivers. We have some good complimentary pieces in Beasley and Brown, but we lack a game breaker.  

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

I was at the stadium and nothing frustrated me more than that drop and the drop by Beasley. Those were Allen's 2 best throws of the day by my count and they were wasted. The Beasley one especially - Allen immediately rolled out of the pocket and pointed to Beasley basically telling him to run up field, then he throws a perfectly placed pass on the run 30 yards down field and Beasley alligator arms it. Now it's 4th down and we have to punt. So I come here after the game and people are saying Allen was the primary reason we lost? Not by my eyes he wasn't. Not his best game by any means but I see some of these "inaccurate" passes caught by other teams regularly. Even the arm punt to Foster, I've seen Willie Snead make that catch for Lamar Jackson a couple of times. Just feels like we are missing a certain caliber of receiver that all the top offenses have.

Exactly!!! 

[SinceThe70s]

Just now, whorlnut said:

Our offense not being a liability. That’s the next step. We don’t currently have game breaking receivers. We have some good complimentary pieces in Beasley and Brown, but we lack a game breaker.  

 

 

Fair enough.

 

Do you think the Ravens are at the 'next level'? If so, who is their game breaker? 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Dawkins is under contract for 2020. He is servicable at LT. Spain will walk. Move Ford to guard or let him battle for RT starting spot. Sign an average RT. 

Normally I would favor a veteran WR and if they can get OBJ, AJ Green, or Amari Cooper in free agency then I say go for it. If they can't land a big time free agent, then a big body WR in round 2 makes sense. They will have two very good veteran WR to bring the rookie along.

 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

You can always attempt to better your offense with new personnel.  But no matter how good you may be on paper, if your play calling suffers, the "right" guys may not necessarily be very productive.  Take today's first quarter.  The play calling was atrocious, predictable, and to some extent laughable.  Run twice, which everyone we knows we generally do early on, then pass because you have to.  No keeping the defense guessing and no attempts to develop any rhythm with short passes.  When you pray that those bombs from Allen will be on target, especially on a windy day, it's called wishful thinking.  Defenses love three and outs and we're particularly adept at it.

[DuckyBoys]

8 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Fair enough.

 

Do you think the Ravens are at the 'next level'? If so, who is their game breaker? 

The rpo offense is enough  They arent asking Jackson to throw 30+ times or to move the chains with throws to the outside. Wrs on that team are a luxury they dont utilize much and they are still equal to what we have  Daboll wants to run a pass first scheme without the talent on the outside to do it.  We have the same problem the Patriots do running the same scheme

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, BillsRdue said:

by no means is TE solved. Knox has hands of stone and the ball bounces off his f'kin chest.  Sweeney barely made the team, Kroft is a non-factor and Croom is not the answer.

 

Knox needs gloves.   why not try them.  

 

on another note, Knox runs angry and is good after the catch.  put him at half back and run screen plays?

[MAJBobby]

6 hours ago, djp14150 said:

 

 

RB can be drafted in late rounds or FA.

 

they do not need another TE..let theirs develop

 

yiu can sign an OL in free agency. You won’t be drafting high enough to get the elite LT so you look at a prospect who coukd fo both G and T.

 

you don’t need an elite WR. You can survive if you have specialty roles.

 

 

 

 

sure so this is a needless team. Got it. 

6 hours ago, djp14150 said:

 

 

RB can be drafted in late rounds or FA.

 

they do not need another TE..let theirs develop

 

yiu can sign an OL in free agency. You won’t be drafting high enough to get the elite LT so you look at a prospect who coukd fo both G and T.

 

you don’t need an elite WR. You can survive if you have specialty roles.

 

 

 

 

TE we have one that drops ALOT. We have another that is MIA. We have another that is a walking penalty and another that cannot get on the field. What are you holding out hope for Croom?

 

you Absolutely needs a top end WR. Notice what happens when we don’t have one?  Not a lot of Seperation. 
 

[auburnbillsbacker]

They need a stud WR and 1 more offensive lineman.  If they get that I think this franchise is in great shape next season.  

[Bill from NYC]

10 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Rather get a vet WR than someone in the draft unless they are an absolute blue chip like a AJ green/Megatron/Julio.

 

Bill Belisuckmydick cant even pluck and develop a good WR from the draft. 
 

It’s smarter to get a vet.

There looks to be an unheard of number of blue chip wide outs in the 2020 draft like nothing I have ever seen before.

 

This will be the perfect situation for a team like the Bills who need at least one wide receiver. One couldn't ask for a better class.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Bill from NYC

[jrober38]

The Bills need a big wide receiver.

 

Otherwise their offensive personnel is well above NFL average. 

[The Jokeman]

15 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

franchise LT and WR needed. Also new RT needed. 

 

we need at least 2 new WR's 

2? Why? I can see the case for 1 but not 2 as McKenzie is a solid depth WR yet with us running 3 wide so much he's being over used and that's why we need a better top end option. Also the defense could use a few more players especially if LorAx retires after this year and we part ways with Kevin Johnson or Levi Wallace. Toss in Jordan Phillips and/or Shaq Lawson might not be back. We do have cap space but we have to be smart with it as while nice to bring everyone back we might want to considering upgrading them specifically at 2nd CB and find a younger LoRax for the long term. 

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

The Bills need a big wide receiver.

 

Otherwise their offensive personnel is well above NFL average. 

So you are saying you think Allen is above average?

[The Jokeman]

4 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

They need a stud WR and 1 more offensive lineman.  If they get that I think this franchise is in great shape next season.  

Spain is an UFA and I'd hate to lose him as while he's drawn a few flags here and there he's been a solid guy all year. Also not sure we bring Gore back so while Singletary has taken over our top RB we still need a change of pace guy for him and think our depth TEs are questionable and can always use more depth at OL especially with Long/Waddle set to be UFAs. 

1 minute ago, whorlnut said:

So you are saying you think Allen is above average?

It's debatable but I'd say he's above the curve of most second year QBs so yes above average in that regard and maybe middle of the road on normal QBs but it's worth noting he's in the top 10 in overall TDs for QBs this season. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I was at the stadium and nothing frustrated me more than that drop and the drop by Beasley. Those were Allen's 2 best throws of the day by my count and they were wasted. The Beasley one especially - Allen immediately rolled out of the pocket and pointed to Beasley basically telling him to run up field, then he throws a perfectly placed pass on the run 30 yards down field and Beasley alligator arms it. Now it's 4th down and we have to punt. So I come here after the game and people are saying Allen was the primary reason we lost? Not by my eyes he wasn't. Not his best game by any means but I see some of these "inaccurate" passes caught by other teams regularly. Even the arm punt to Foster, I've seen Willie Snead make that catch for Lamar Jackson a couple of times. Just feels like we are missing a certain caliber of receiver that all the top offenses have.

 

At least someone here understands the basics. Good post.

[badassgixxer05]

Knox has had his moments. He had a nice one hander on the sideline with a defender draped all over him and holding his other arm. I think he will find more consistency. Hes a rookie, so mental mistakes are going to happen(running before catching)

[jrober38]

42 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

So you are saying you think Allen is above average?

 

The collective offense should be above average. We have a good running game, good line, and good group of pass catchers. 

 

Allen is about an average starting NFL QB. He's not going to win many big games, but he's also not bad enough to lose to bad teams. 

[John from Riverside]

I want to see them do what they did on the offensive line....double down....TRIPLE DOWN on receiving threats

 

Watching McKenzie drop a TD pass yesterday then at the end of the game Brown not be able to make a play on that final pass was so frustrating

 

We need to create a situation where Brown is our SECOND best receiver.....Bease always open because the 2 WR in front of him have to be accounted for.

[Buffalophil1948]

I was just talking to an Eagles fan last week and he brought up the draft.  My response " this is the first time in a long time that I really need to talk about the draft in December.  It's a very nice feeling. "

Just saying 

[Jerry Jabber]

17 hours ago, BillsRdue said:

by no means is TE solved. Knox has hands of stone and the ball bounces off his f'kin chest.  Sweeney barely made the team, Kroft is a non-factor and Croom is not the answer.

+1

[whorlnut]

59 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The collective offense should be above average. We have a good running game, good line, and good group of pass catchers. 

 

Allen is about an average starting NFL QB. He's not going to win many big games, but he's also not bad enough to lose to bad teams. 

So noble of you to give him the benefit of the doubt that he will continue to develop and get better...

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

17 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Highly doubt many teams worry about the Bills passing game too much when they know or #2 WR is McKenzie.  He should be the #4 or 5 who plays a few plays bringing in some special surprise type plays.

 

Overall would prefer they draft a pass rushing De in the 1st round as they are harder to find in FA.  Draft a WR in the 2nd or 3rd, but also sign a good FA WR who starts next year.  WR often takes some time to develop, would rather not rely on a rookie for that.  Also draft one O lineman, tackle preferred.  Don't sign Spain and move Ford inside.

 

I was really bummed the trade deadline passed without anything at WR. 

 

Watching KC last night, it seemed like all of their pass catchers are open by 5 yards on each play.

 

Also interesting how Sammy was the Bills best wr (and I’m not saying I liked him all that much) in a long while and he’s the third option on KC. 

 

Then Duke gave us all hope one week only to disappear ever since. 

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Watching KC last night, it seemed like all of their pass catchers are open by 5 yards on each play.

 

 

You should have seen the Rams game....OMG

[Boatdrinks]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I was really bummed the trade deadline passed without anything at WR. 

 

Watching KC last night, it seemed like all of their pass catchers are open by 5 yards on each play.

 

Also interesting how Sammy was the Bills best wr (and I’m not saying I liked him all that much) in a long while and he’s the third option on KC. 

 

Then Duke gave us all hope one week only to disappear ever since. 

Yeah, that was eye opening , especially vs that defensive scheme. Bills lack playmakers and great design , adjustments on the fly to get guys open. All I heard about before the game was how BB scheme was going to take away Hill and Kelce, forcing KC to beat them with one hand behind their back. 

[jrober38]

32 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

So noble of you to give him the benefit of the doubt that he will continue to develop and get better...

 

Most QBs don't get much better after two years as a starter. 

[whorlnut]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Most QBs don't get much better after two years as a starter. 

Uhhh...he’s gotten markedly better in a year. It’s happened many times that a qb grows in his second year and then puts it all together in the third year. Where do you keep coming up with this crap?

 

Go hide back under your rock. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Yeah, that was eye opening , especially vs that defensive scheme. Bills lack playmakers and great design , adjustments on the fly to get guys open. All I heard about before the game was how BB scheme was going to take away Hill and Kelce, forcing KC to beat them with one hand behind their back. 

 

Sure then they can just throw it to the other 4.3 guy Hardnan, or Sammy or Robinson. Or the RBs...  roster is loaded with home run threats.

[ColoradoBills]

18 hours ago, whorlnut said:

It’s so clear to me what we really need to take the next step...offensive weapons. I love John Brown, but he’s more of a WR2. Beasley is our slot guy, that can’t be argued. We need a tall WR that can go get it in the end zone at the end of games. IMO that’s what we need to target above all else this draft. 
 

In addition, we could really use a RT. I think Ford will finally be moved inside next year, but we need a true RT. We could look at FA, or in the draft. Either way it’s a huge need. 
 

We also need a second RB. Motor has been really good, but we need some reliability when he needs to catch his breath. I’m thinking maybe the fourth or fifth to find this guy. 
 

I say all this to plead and beg Beane to upgrade the offense this off-season. Please resist the urge to draft defense in round one and get a real playmaker for this offense. It’s what we need to round out this offense and make us a more complete football team. I get the potential need for pass rusher, but we can’t use all our premium picks on defense each year and expect to keep up with opposing offenses. 

 

Agree but things have to go 1 step at a time.

 

1st- What Bills FAs get re-signed.

2nd- What do the Bills get in FA.

3rd- Draft and how it flows.

 

I think the O will have a few good new faces starting and some better depth.

[Rc2catch]

There’s going to be some decent receiver options in free agency and the draft obviously. It’s very hard to predict these things though Beane is looking ahead at contracts and resigning guys they like etc etc were looking at the now. 
 

Just an example so don’t freak but let’s say Beane really doesn’t value Milano and mcdermott doesn’t mind letting him walk. Knowing that they might target a linebacker in round one and as fans we’ll freak because we don’t see their plans for the future that they’re drafting an impact player early expecting him to take milanos spot the next year. As a fan it’s hard to see the bigger picture. 
 

Regardless though we have to have some faith they know what they need for this team. 
Remember all the posters saying they could NOT judge offensive talent? The freak out over the singletary pick? All in all I think they did a helluva job evaluating the offensive talent they’ve added to this team. One could argue singletary is the MVP for the offense this season as the offense can’t do squat when he’s not playing. They were judged so harshly for Tolbert and Benjamin etc etc but they knew what they were doing. Didn’t work out in every case like Benjamin but a lot of teams in a playoff race would of made that trade hoping to give him a resurgence in his career. We should fully expect some new receivers, more offensive linemen added in and another running back (I’m still homering for Derrick Henry until he’s signed long term somewhere) 

And they will add to the defense too. Rather cutting star and Murphy or letting Lawson walk or whatever they do. Free agency will setup the draft and lord knows how many surprise cuts there will be in free agency. 
Let’s finish the year and go win a Super Bowl and then worry about what we need to win. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Rc2catch

[suorangefan4]

18 hours ago, BillsRdue said:

by no means is TE solved. Knox has hands of stone and the ball bounces off his f'kin chest.  Sweeney barely made the team, Kroft is a non-factor and Croom is not the answer.

 

Knox hands are good. His drop had nothing to do with hands being bad... he just took his eyes off the ball to look where to run with it before securing it.

 

He's on pace for about 400 yards as a rookie. He has 344 yards so far on just 45 targets. That's pretty darn good.

Edited December 9, 2019 by suorangefan4

[Rc2catch]

1 minute ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

Knox hands are good. His drop had nothing to do with hands being bad... he just took his eyes off the ball to look where to run with it before securing it.

 

He's on pace for about 400 yards as a rookie. That's pretty darn good.

Knox can easily be in the same category as the kittles and kelces of the world. Might take a couple years but he has the tools. He’s had some yips but I sure as heck wouldn’t write him off. Hard to blame Kroft they don’t even target him or look his way. He’s just a serviceable tight end I guess who is there if we need him. Kroft was gold in Cincinnati when he was healthy, guy caught tons of balls within 10 yards. Allen never throws to him. 
Either Daboll only really wants them to block or he doesn’t value the position in his playbook for receiving but they do not feature tight ends well at all. Knox gets his few targets a game but I’m pretty sure most of those are designed plays specifically to get him open a couple times a game 

[jrober38]

28 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Uhhh...he’s gotten markedly better in a year. It’s happened many times that a qb grows in his second year and then puts it all together in the third year. Where do you keep coming up with this crap?

 

Go hide back under your rock. 

 

His decision making and not putting the ball in harms way has got better.

 

His accuracy on deep balls is still one of the worst in the NFL.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

11 minutes ago, suorangefan4 said:

 

Knox hands are good. His drop had nothing to do with hands being bad... he just took his eyes off the ball to look where to run with it before securing it. He's on pace for about 400 yards as a rookie. He has 344 yards so far on just 45 targets. That's pretty darn good.

A drop is a drop. On third down when you are open and need to make a crucial catch, whether you take your eyes off the ball, fall down, let it bounce off your helmet, chest, gut or hands you did NOT make a catch. Your job is to make catches, especially when the ball is catchable.  

Allen to Knox is 26/45 at at 57% rate.   Kroft 4/8 Sweeney 3/8. Only Foster and Zay Jones rank that low. 

 

Our TE's are not doing the job. It needs an upgrade. Our top 2 % receivers are Duke Williams and TJ Yeldon. Both inactive!