Can Lamar Be Stopped???

[Gugny]

31 minutes ago, Plano said:

"can he be stopped?" SURE. Really easy, just drive him into the ground and knock him out, it's really quite simple.

 

He's not a pocket passer, he's like Vick used to be, except without the super strong arm (he still has a strong arm). Can't run forever, he'll get obliterated soon enough. It's not if, it's when.

 

I never wish ill on any player, mind you, just stating an absolute fact. He'll get crushed one day, it's just a matter of time.

 

He actually is a pocket passer.  He makes quick decisions and he's been accurate.  The important factor is that it's almost exclusively over the middle of the field.

 

If they can take that first read away, which WILL be over the middle, then we'll win this game.  We don't need to hurt him.  We just need to make him pass outside the tackles.  Mistakes will be made and it will keep him from getting into any kind of rhythm.

 

My gut tells me that McDermott will take SF's blueprint, improve upon it and give Jackson fits.

 

Go Bills!

[MJS]

Yes. He's been stopped before. The Ravens aren't undefeated. He also looked pitiful in his playoff game last year.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Lamar Jackson is a unique talent for sure; but how much of his success is based on that offensive line.  I mean, Mark Ingram is rattling of big chunks of yardage which only helps Lamar in the RPO.  The key is being stout up the middle and DE/OLB discipline and containment.  If Ingram can be mitigated by the interior D-Line and LBs, then the DE's can focus on keeping Lamar bottled up and forcing him to run within the hashmarks or pass.  However, if the Ravens O-line gives Ingram lanes where can bust runs like Philly did, then it doesn't really matter how we try and stop Lamar.  DEs or OLBs who are playing the edge, DO NOT CHASE THE RB IN THE RPO.  That's what Lamar reads and once the DE commits to the RB, as they say "HE GONE!"   This game will be won in the trenches in my opinion.  If we can outperform the Ravens O-line, we have a good chance to win this game.  If the Raven's O-line outperforms us, we don't have the firepower to keep up regardless of how well the offense may play.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[ngbills]

I think we need less Lorax and go more nickel and dime. Play him like you do an option QB with a guy assigned the QB and another the RB. Play zone in the secondary, keep him inside the pocket and contained. 

[starrymessenger]

4 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

That offense is sustainable, but his health is not. The unfortunate thing for him is that it only takes being caught one time to end up in the protocol. 

 

I do think that he is a very good passer, and they will transition to a Seahawks style of play ala Russell Wilson as time goes on.

 

That offence is not sustainable without Lamar. He's the motor that makes it go, not only because of what he can do physically (which may be unique in league history), but because of Roman's brilliant play design that, leveraging off fear of what Lamar can do, creatively opens running lanes for guys like Ingram. To Lamar's credit he needs to make the right reads at the LOS and post snap for that to happen and he's been able to do that with great proficiency. In the passing game they are not putting too much on his plate. He's effective throwing to his TEs especially when out of the pocket when the defence has to account for him. He also does throw outside the hash but almost only in the relatively shallow flats. If he's to progress to Wilson's level he will need to show that he can manage downfield reads, which so far he has not done. If he can do that while maintaining the good accuracy and ball placement he has shown look out. In fact IMO he will need to do that because otherwise he will wind up in routine concussion protocol. He's a pretty big guy and is good at avoiding major impacts but in this league it's really only a matter of time.

Personally I'm sceptical about his chances of executing a fully developed passing game and suspect you might start seeing turnovers. So I say "show me". But if he can he's going to be flat out great.

Edited December 3, 2019 by starrymessenger

[BBills88]

Run and stop the Run. Make Lamar Jackson a Pocket QB and force him to throw at our top rank passing defense. 

[BehindTheWoodshed]

Lamar will be stopped by a defense at some point, just not sure it will be anytime soon.

[mjt328]

In 30 years of watching the NFL, I've never seen a system or player that couldn't be stopped with the right gameplan, the right personnel and good execution.

 

Right now, it's pretty clear that Lamar Jackson DOES HAVE flaws.  He doesn't operate his best when forced to throw into tight windows from the pocket.  The problem is... how do you force him into that kind of a situation?  The first step for defensive coordinators is finding the right gameplan.  And it doesn't appear the coaches of the NFL have figured it out yet.  Checkout some of the other Baltimore-related threads.  There are some really good football minds on this board, and nobody can agree on the exact approach to defending the Ravens offense yet. 

 

Once the Ravens offense is "figured out" (and who knows how long this could take) there will still be many teams who don't have the right talent to execute.  And it's always possible that Jackson makes great strides as a passer, further limiting how defenses can slow him down.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

I've watched LJ in college, his Heisman year 2016 I think... was one of the greatest collegiate performances I've ever seen!  I mean the guy was throwing 400+ yards & rushing for damn near 200 yards every other game! It wasn't a game where he didn't score 3+ TD's ... he was remarkable.  Fast forward today... I see the same kid.  ?

 

I think I'm more impressed with him now than his collegiate days. John Harbaugh & Greg Roman has built something special around his talents. We all know this... but some of the things Lamar is doing is not part of the design and I think that's why DC's are having a hard time trying to figure out how to stop him.

 

McDermott is really good at what he does...a real student of the game... I hate his clock management but that's a different thread. But he said something yesterday that stuck with me:

"He (Lamar) is just so fast"

 

& that's what you can't teach or defend. LJ never ran the 40 at his pro day or combine. But, there were rumors at Louisville around 2016 that he hit 4.1 just playing around.  I don't know how much of the Ravens many of you watched this year. 

 

But DO NOT overreact this Sunday that our D sucks or our team is about to crumble if LJ kills our D. I'm just saying he put up 100 yards passing & 16 carries for 100 rushing with 2 TD's & it was considered his BAD GAME. I pray we can jus hold him to that.

Just don't overreact people... we're still good. 

 

Fun fact.....So far this season, we have given up more yards on D than our Offense gained four times.

When that happens, we're 2 W (Miami, Dallas) and 2 L (Iggles, Browns)

 

Straight line speed with Lamar, as in a 40-time, only tells part of the story.  He has incredible balance and top-notch agility.

 

You should be more impressed with LJax than in his college days.  He's become a far better passer and better at reading the field - but they still aren't asking him to be a classic make-the-reads pocket passer. 

 

[Aireskoi]

I would make sure he's hit on every play, have the LE go hit him when the RT lets him crash down.

 

Ryan Clark had to deal with RG3 when he was unstoppable...Here's his advise from 2013:

 

“Our goal was to be physical with him at any opportunity we had, and I think it affected his play,” Clark said.

It surely did.  Griffin had only 177 yards passing, and he gained only eight yards on six carries.

The Steelers’ approach included Clark applying a big, high hit to Griffin as he ran a pass route on a gadget play.  “We were focused on being physical with him,” Clark said.  “When they ran the read-option, he was the guy we were focused on.  [We] had James Harrison and LaMarr Woodley on him at every chance and every opportunity that we got, just so he knew every play, he was gonna be hit.”

[LB48]

11 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Please .. he's not a GOD.  

 

2 teams did stop him and one almost did Sunday 

 

 

If he turns out to have a long and great career like Steve McNair he should be happy.  Everyone gets figured out.

[billsfan89]

He can be stopped, the question is will the Bills be the team that finds that strategy? I think any QB can be stopped if the offense around him is exposed to their weaknesses and limited in their strengths. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

13

the # of licks to get to the center of a wonder pop?

 

[Clyde Smith]

Most of the core defense practiced against an agile Qb like LJ everyday named Tyrod. Don't tell me they caught amnesia already? I think we'll be fine stopping/containing Lamar. Offense have to strike first early and often, make him stay in the pocket to beat us.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

19 minutes ago, LB48 said:

If he turns out to have a long and great career like Steve McNair he should be happy.  Everyone gets figured out.

If.  
he’s the star of the season. 
 

Mahomes and Faker were the stars of last year and Darnold. 

 

Don’t forget Jimmy G. Who people are still questioning.  Some say it’s why they lost this past weekend. 

[Mat68]

11 hours ago, ILBillsfan said:

DE's going against the Ravens I just do not understand how they attack the RB when the responsibility of the DE is the edge and the QB.  Countless times I saw Bosa and Armstead crash so hard on Ingram mind boggling when week after week he pulls the ball out and takes off on the edge.  Gap responsibility and as I tell my players I coach quit getting sucked inside.  Mind blowing in the NFL these fundamentals still are an issue.

 

I get they are all playmakers and playing on Sunday, but this is why I like Buffalos chances since they have a real good team concept and individuals understanding their  responsibilities, it really is 11 pieces working together and when one part suddenly tries to do another parts job too holes develop.  Just crazy to see sooo many DE's not understand there first priortiy

Very easy have the De get up field and attack Jackson.  Make him uncomfortable.  Read option De is not blocked.  Attack Jackson.  Rely on the linebakers to make tackles.  Do you job and assignment.  

[LSHMEAB]

Everyone is talking about Edmunds and Milano, but Ed Oliver could be an underrated key for the Bills to contain LJ.

 

He's obviously gotta keep an eye on the interior runs, but he doesn't really hold up all that well at the point of attack. Just a fact. What he does EXCEPTIONALLY well is track ball carriers from behind. I could see EO coming out of nowhere as LJ is dancing around making the LB's miss. Jackson is not a straight line guy, so his runs usually take time to develop. That gives EO the opportunity to sneak on over.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, finn said:

Someone mentioned turnovers. That fumble Jackson had against the 49ers seemed to rattle him a bit, and he is a bit loose with the ball when he runs, especially when he's just leaving the pocket. I would coach the defense to try to strip the ball every time they tackle him. One or two turnovers might be all it takes. 

 

That's OK for the second guy there, but the first guy better wrap him the ***** up or he's gonna be looking at shoesoles and ...you know the rest.  LJax has amazing balance and strength.  He is very hard to trip up and is strong enough to stiff-arm and break tackles.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, InheritedBillsfan said:

In my opinion, the best way *to* limit what Lamar can do through the air is to play man coverage on the receivers and tight ends and take away the middle of the field particularly in the red zone. The 49'ers defense coupled with the torrential rain slowed Lamar down in the passing game as evident by some of his throwing miscues and receiver drops last Sunday, but even spying Lamar and playing disciplined defense and keeping defenders along the edge, he could not be slowed on the ground. Multiple teams have tried this approach including the Rams, Patriots, and 49'ers, and when he couldn't hit the edge, he was running through the C gaps. The Ravens are averaging 33.8 PPG and have played some of the top defenses in the league and been very successful against them.

 

Match up:

Right now, Baltimore is playing at a level that will be very tough to beat. Most likely, this team will not lose again in the regular season as they are playing a complete game on offense, defense, and special teams, and are playing as a single unit. They have a stout defense, the best kicker (in NFL history), and one of the top quarterbacks, running backs, and tight ends in the game.  If Buffalo has a chance of pulling out a victory, they will need to score more than 30 points and somehow get turnovers either by interception, stripping the ball away, or causing fumbles. Lamar has fumbled this season but only lost one, but sometimes his arm angle when throwing causes balls to be deflected. If the Bills can capitalize on deflections at the LoS, stripping the ball from Jackson, or playing tight man coverage and jumping a route, they have the best chance of throwing the rhythm of the Ravens offense off.

 

Great post, Thanks.

 

Can you comment on the Ravens OC situation with Skura being placed on IR?

 

I think there are four keys to the game for the Bills:

1) Special teams.  It's a strength for the Ravens.  They arguably won on ST play vs SF.  Harbaugh said as much in his presser.  ST has been at best inconsistent and at times, an Achilles heel for the Bills.    Bills need their ST unit to "show up" and if we've left any weaknesses on film, rest assured Harbaugh will find them.

2) "Play Fearless" but avoid the miscues for Allen and the offense.  We have too many miscues in the form of Center-QB exchange problems and bobbled passes. 

3) Which Run defense will show up for the Bills?  The one that held the Titans, Broncos, and Cowboys to ~100 yds or less?  Or the one that gave up 218 yds to the Eagles?

4) Adjustments - I'm sure we'll need them, will we be able to make effective ones quickly before things get out of hand?

 

 

7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Troll much?

 

John, that post was about as far from trolling as a post can get.

[K-9]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

He actually is a pocket passer.  He makes quick decisions and he's been accurate.  The important factor is that it's almost exclusively over the middle of the field.

 

If they can take that first read away, which WILL be over the middle, then we'll win this game.  We don't need to hurt him.  We just need to make him pass outside the tackles.  Mistakes will be made and it will keep him from getting into any kind of rhythm.

 

My gut tells me that McDermott will take SF's blueprint, improve upon it and give Jackson fits.

 

Go Bills!

Good point about the middle of the field. I think we have the personnel to do that with Poyer and Hyde in the back but I think Milano and Edmunds will be key. They match up well athletically and are both three down players. 
 

Like the old saying goes, we aren’t going to “stop” Jackson; we will have to contain him. He’s gonna get his on the ground at times. But I think we can make it difficult for him to throw on us. 

[ILBillsfan]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

Very easy have the De get up field and attack Jackson.  Make him uncomfortable.  Read option De is not blocked.  Attack Jackson.  Rely on the linebakers to make tackles.  Do you job and assignment.  

yep sounds easy enough but watch the games and see DE atk the RB pretty maddening

[billsbackto81]

13 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

You mean stopped? If so, yes... I love Josh. But I've seen teams stop him already.

Not the last 3 weeks you haven't.?

[Bing Bong]

Nope.

 

Guess who the greatest Madden player ever is going to be next year haha. This is going to be Tecmo Bowl's Bo Jackson with Pat Mahomes arm.

15 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said:

yep sounds easy enough but watch the games and see DE atk the RB pretty maddening

Oh yes. You stop Lamar by tackling him! We need to tell the NFL DC's this new age wisdom ?

Edited December 4, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[InheritedBillsfan]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Great post, Thanks.

 

Can you comment on the Ravens OC situation with Skura being placed on IR?

 

I think there are four keys to the game for the Bills:

1) Special teams.  It's a strength for the Ravens.  They arguably won on ST play vs SF.  Harbaugh said as much in his presser.  ST has been at best inconsistent and at times, an Achilles heel for the Bills.    Bills need their ST unit to "show up" and if we've left any weaknesses on film, rest assured Harbaugh will find them.

2) "Play Fearless" but avoid the miscues for Allen and the offense.  We have too many miscues in the form of Center-QB exchange problems and bobbled passes. 

3) Which Run defense will show up for the Bills?  The one that held the Titans, Broncos, and Cowboys to ~100 yds or less?  Or the one that gave up 218 yds to the Eagles?

4) Adjustments - I'm sure we'll need them, will we be able to make effective ones quickly before things get out of hand?

 

 

 

John, that post was about as far from trolling as a post can get.

Skura was certainly a sizeable loss for the Ravens. Patrick Mekari who is an undrafted rookie stepped in admirably in the Rams game when Skura went down and made line calls without missing a beat.  Against the 49'ers he also did well considering it was his first start, but there were times where he was manhandled or on his back given the 49'ers D-Line most likely tried to exploit a rookie center. 

 

I think all of suggestions sound about right when it comes to playing against this Ravens team. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, Clyde Smith said:

Most of the core defense practiced against an agile Qb like LJ everyday named Tyrod. Don't tell me they caught amnesia already? I think we'll be fine stopping/containing Lamar. Offense have to strike first early and often, make him stay in the pocket to beat us.

 

Did they really?  Who was here from 2017 on D?

[ngbills]

55 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Did they really?  Who was here from 2017 on D?

Hughes

Lawson

Alexander

White

Hyde

Poyer

Milano

 

So 7 of our starting 11...

[QB Bills]

The NFL world is so reactionary. LJ is the latest "we've never seen anything like this before" flavour of the week. RG3's rookie year. Chip Kelly's up tempo scheme. Miami with the wildcat. Mcvay's offense just last season. All these coaches and players try to revolutionize the game and then someone (usually Bill Belichick) comes and sh*ts all over their plans and we have to see the Patriots make another super bowl at the end of the year. The same thing is going to happen this year. The Ravens aren't getting by New England in January. 

[CorkScrewHill]

On 12/3/2019 at 9:01 AM, Scorp83 said:

That was earlier in the year & I've mentioned this past Sunday... 100 yards passing, 100 yards rushing 2TD's on his bad day

It was considered a bad game .. because if your quarterback is only producing 200 total yards .. it is a really bad game. If any quarterback puts up 200 total yards it would be considered terrible, but for some reason in this case it is still great but not as great as his other amazing games. Running or passing the goal is to get as many yards as possible to put yourself in a position to score as much as possible. I am not trying to take anything away from what he is doing .. but as of now we still don't know if he will be a bust, need a bust in Canton or somewhere in between.

[K-9]

In Kaepernick’s second year as a starter, after a season of great success with the read option offense also under Roman, defensive coordinators around the league made it a point to hit Kaepernick, regardless of whether or not he kept the ball on those option plays. Every. Time. Over time, it had its desired effect. I’d like to see a similar tactic vs. Jackson. 

[Bing Bong]

2 hours ago, QB Bills said:

The NFL world is so reactionary. LJ is the latest "we've never seen anything like this before" flavour of the week. RG3's rookie year. Chip Kelly's up tempo scheme. Miami with the wildcat. Mcvay's offense just last season. All these coaches and players try to revolutionize the game and then someone (usually Bill Belichick) comes and sh*ts all over their plans and we have to see the Patriots make another super bowl at the end of the year. The same thing is going to happen this year. The Ravens aren't getting by New England in January. 

Yeah in competition us fans seem to have this odd reaction to winning and success.. We don't really have anything else to go off of right now other than 10-2 teams tend to be better than others. And most don't just belly flop the next year like Chip Kelly or RG3. They might? If McVay or Kaep make one more play in the SB their respective years their legacy just is undeniable. They'd be etched in SB history haha. They were too hard to stop for a full year.. and that's all anyone's trying to do.

 

I don't see anything other than an offense that's hard to stop. Not sure if it's an RG3 or Russell Wilson helming this offense. Could get worse or better but it's pretty darn good now. I think Roman's a great OC for running QBs and LJ is probably by far the best he's worked with. And I see nothing wrong in his pass TBH. Looks accurate.

 

Anyways I think the Bills this year are pretty darn exciting too. But I can't tell you if this is a flavor of the week I just have the 2019 record and some pretty good stats against other dudes trying their damndest to beat them. Might be the best matchup we've looked forward too in like 20 years man! Lighten up it's sports.

Edited December 4, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

In Kaepernick’s second year as a starter, after a season of great success with the read option offense also under Roman, defensive coordinators around the league made it a point to hit Kaepernick, regardless of whether or not he kept the ball on those option plays. Every. Time. Over time, it had its desired effect. I’d like to see a similar tactic vs. Jackson. 

And honestly....Jackson does not have the physical body to hold up under that kind of punishment over time.

 

So far.....his athletism has saved him.

[LJs Bodyguard]

No, Lamar cannot be stopped. Just pray for rain.

[Jerry Jabber]

 

[LJs Bodyguard]

Lamar is a true dual-threat and is simply not a 1 read qb. This will give you a clue as to how good Jackson really is. In a lot of Baldy's breakdowns, you can see Lamar throwing to his 3rd and 4th read for some of his touchdowns. He truly looks to throw first. If he immediately takes off and runs, more likely than not, it was a designed QB run.

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lamar+jackson+baldy+breakdown

[Like A Mofo]

On 12/3/2019 at 5:59 AM, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Please .. he's not a GOD. 

 

 

ESPN strongly disagrees with you

[Ethan in Cleveland]

He only plays offense. This game is just as much about our offense as it is about Lamar. We need to score points too.

[Joaquin1119]

Force Lamar Jackson stay in the pocket. And I’m pretty sure they going to force our QB do the same.

[Locomark]

Put up 30 points and it won’t matter. Time to play like an NFL team who expects to win a playoff game and stop worrying about winning 16-14... 

[MDH]

On 12/3/2019 at 5:31 PM, Aireskoi said:

I would make sure he's hit on every play, have the LE go hit him when the RT lets him crash down.

 

Ryan Clark had to deal with RG3 when he was unstoppable...Here's his advise from 2013:

 

“Our goal was to be physical with him at any opportunity we had, and I think it affected his play,” Clark said.

It surely did.  Griffin had only 177 yards passing, and he gained only eight yards on six carries.

The Steelers’ approach included Clark applying a big, high hit to Griffin as he ran a pass route on a gadget play.  “We were focused on being physical with him,” Clark said.  “When they ran the read-option, he was the guy we were focused on.  [We] had James Harrison and LaMarr Woodley on him at every chance and every opportunity that we got, just so he knew every play, he was gonna be hit.”

 

This is my line of thinking. One of the DEs (or both) should be tackling/hitting Lamar on every running play, even after he hands the ball off. It's totally legal to hit a QB if he's carrying out a play fake and you think he may still have the ball. Have them both take deeper angles back to Lamar on every play and hit him anytime he does a play fake.

 

RBs have to take breathers from time to time from all the contact they take. Lamar doesn't have that option. Keep hitting him and wear him out.

 

Behind that I'd like to see them maybe just play 1 CB and use a S in Wallace's place when the Ravens go 13 personnel. Maybe even do it if they go 12. Someone who can cover a TE and but be better vs. the run. Give the Ravens the deep outside parts of the field. If Lamar can hit those throws, so be it, but don't give him his bread and butter play fake, pull the LBs up and drop an easy completion over the LBs and in front of the safeties. 

 

 

[H2o]

Sunday around 4:00-4:30pm (since my gif wouldn't work)...