Coleman selects Harris, Briscoe top 5 black quarterbacks

[Rocket94]

13 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Doug Williams ?? LOL

 

Warren Moon was better than all those guys.

 

 

Warren Moon should definately be there. What is this guy smoking!

[LSHMEAB]

Jeff Blake was better than Doug Williams FWIW.

 

This list is clearly based on historical significance and not overall play. Not quite sure how people are missing that part.

[fansince88]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

Bolded taints your entire premise. We still do, but it’s getting better.

We have come a long way and have a long way to go. That said, a good friend of mine, a black man who spent his childhood life in the military in the south in the 60s told me about the times he couldnt drink from fountains and use most bathrooms because he was different. He told me, "son, when we cant find a way to remove race from the conversation and keep it about the human instead then we will never continue foward. We have let the narrative be segregation rather then one people." If that is wrong then I will let Garland know.

1 hour ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I'm guessing from your name you weren't around when race was considered when it came to QBs.  Good for you & your generation, but it clearly was a factor back in the 60s, 70s & 80s and the years before those decades.  It was only around the 1990s that things changed to the point that your last statement is now true.  

Here's what the Buffalo Evening News said the day after Harris was drafted:  (From Relentless P158): "...in the eighth round , they selected James Harris, a black quarterback from Grambling.  A Buffalo Evening News headline read: ' A 6-4 N-egro QB, Harris, drafted 8th by the Bills.'  The story said Harris 'is a n-egro, one of the few of his race to be drafted as a quarterback in pro football.' " 

I dont disagree. This is why I dont usually get into these conversations.  My statement from the start was not received accurately. See my reply above. 

Edited November 23, 2019 by fansince88

[RaoulDuke79]

1 hour ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I'm guessing from your name you weren't around when race was considered when it came to QBs.  Good for you & your generation, but it clearly was a factor back in the 60s, 70s & 80s and the years before those decades.  It was only around the 1990s that things changed to the point that your last statement is now true.  

Here's what the Buffalo Evening News said the day after Harris was drafted:  (From Relentless P158): "...in the eighth round , they selected James Harris, a black quarterback from Grambling.  A Buffalo Evening News headline read: ' A 6-4 N-egro QB, Harris, drafted 8th by the Bills.'  The story said Harris 'is a n-egro, one of the few of his race to be drafted as a quarterback in pro football.' " 

This is some legitimate information. Good post.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Let's see..  cam Newton won an mvp, mahomes won an mvp, wilson or LJ probably win it this year. Wilson also won a super bowl if that's the made up criteria.

 

Moon is a HOFer, Cunningham had a pretty long decently successful career. Same with McNabb. 

[stevestojan]

JP Losman still waiting for a list to be on. 

[Solomon Grundy]

19 hours ago, John Gianelli said:

On ESPN radio just now, Freddie Coleman chose as his top 5 black quarterbacks

 

1) Doug Williams

2) Steve McNair

3) James Harris

4) Michael Vick

5) Marlin Briscoe

 

Harris played quarterback for the Bills. Briscoe was a wide receiver with the Bills, but he did attempt 3 passes.

 

I'm surprised he didn't have Russell Wilson or Randall Cunningham in his top 5.

Coleman is trippin!! No Warren Moon or Randall Cunningham? How about Joe Gilliam who had Terry Bradshaw sitting the bench? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, John Gianelli said:

I'm not a regular listener and I don't know if Freddie Coleman does this all the time, but last night he was letting listeners call in with 15-second takes, with suggestions for topics. A caller suggested he list his top 5 black quarterbacks, so he did. Almost immediately someone told him he left off Warren Moon, but he stuck by his list. He did say something about the historical significance of the quarterbacks he named. I probably wouldn't have paid much attention, but when he mentioned James Harris and Marlin Briscoe, as an elder Bills fan those names brought back vivid memories.

 

If you're going by historical significance, I still don't see how you can omit Moon.

[Solomon Grundy]

4 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Jeff Blake was better than Doug Williams FWIW.

 

This list is clearly based on historical significance and not overall play. Not quite sure how people are missing that part.

Let me know when Jeff Blake wins a SB

[LSHMEAB]

3 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Let me know when Jeff Blake wins a SB

You make a strong point there chief. 

 

Trent Dilfer is also better than Dan Marino, amirite?

[Bing Bong]

This is the worst list I could imagine

1 hour ago, the skycap said:

Coleman is trippin!! No Warren Moon or Randall Cunningham? How about Joe Gilliam who had Terry Bradshaw sitting the bench? 

Just terrible list. Why does that guy even bother

[BigDingus]

Donovan McNabb, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, and even current players like  Russell Wilson, DeShaun Watson & Lamar Jackson I'd put over most of those names.

[Doc]

Dumb list.  The only one I'd even consider a good QB, much less top-5, is McNair.

[njbuff]

If you are talking strictly black QB’s..........

 

How the flog is Warren Moon not #1 on anyone’s list?

 

?

Edited November 24, 2019 by njbuff

[NewEra]

21 hours ago, Bferra13 said:

Lol what is this crap? Whatever a Freddie Coleman is, I'm pretty sure he wont have a job tomorrow if he did this list on ESPN's dime as noted. I'm as anti PC culture as anyone, but a qb is a qb. I dont see race factoring into my judgment of how good or bad a qubby is.

Coleman is a quality imo.  I’ve enjoyed his show for years.  
 

this can’t be a list of the top 5 black qbs according to Freddie. No way

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, the skycap said:

Let me know when Jeff Blake wins a SB

Meanwhile, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer asked Dan Marino and Jim Kelly where their SB rings were

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

If you are talking strictly black QB’s..........

 

How the flog is Warren Moon not #1 on anyone’s list?

 

?

Russell Wilson is number 1 on my list

[Augie]

I hope and pray for the day when this would never even be considered as a thread topic. 

[ComradeKayAdams]

9 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Jeff Blake was better than Doug Williams FWIW.

 

This list is clearly based on historical significance and not overall play. Not quite sure how people are missing that part.

 

Briscoe and Harris making the list should have been two big clues... It's a respectable top-5 list, but Moon's omission is glaring. Add him instead of McNair and you have the first black QB to start a pro game (Briscoe), first black QB to start a season (Harris), first black QB to win a Super Bowl (Williams), first Hall of Fame black QB (Moon), and first black QB to be drafted first overall (Vick). Fun fact: not only did Briscoe and Harris play for the Bills, but they were promoted to starting QB by two former Bills head coaches when on different teams (Lou Saban and Briscoe on the Broncos, Chuck Knox and Harris on the Rams).

[TheyshouldhavekeptLomonica]

19 hours ago, fansince88 said:

I really think this is divisive.  Why say 1st black this or female that. I never understood the reason to emphasize it. 

Spoken like a true white guy. “First black this” and “first female this” are notable because so many avenues were closed to those folks for so long, so breaking thru means something. It’s like noting that John Glenn was the first American to orbit the earth. He wasn’t the first human to do it, but it’s important to US,  so we make that distinction.

[njbuff]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Meanwhile, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer asked Dan Marino and Jim Kelly where their SB rings were

Russell Wilson is number 1 on my list

He still has his career going, but you may certainly be right.

[purple haze]

14 hours ago, fansince88 said:

I dont have a first white friend. I dont have a first Black friend. I dont have a first Chineese friend. I have multiple friends. The human race is just that. A complete race of people. I get the accomplishment of the first in the sport but not the first in the position. It reads in the OP post as if being a black QB is some great feat and their quality in the sport cant be compared to that of a white QB. I have racist companions that think a black man cant be a quality qb and have had some pretty heated arguments against that mentality. That is my point. We do not live in a world (for the most part) where race is considered when being put on the field 

?.  America was built on a system of white supremacy.  So you truly believe that race Is not a consideration in sports?  It was widely suggested that Lamar Jackson play WR before LAST YEAR'S draft.  Kaepernick got blackballed for being the ringleader and face of a protest against systemic racial issues, which have roots in white supremacy.

 

It's good that you have a diverse group of friends.  However, most applications we fill out in this country asks for a person's ethnicity; but we're all humans and Americans, right?  It matters in this country and do not make the mistake of thinking history is so far in the past.  History always has a hand in the present sometimes for better, but often-times for worse.

[Doc Brown]

That list has to be top five black quarterbacks of historical significance and it seems not a lot of thought was put into it as it was on the spot.

 

For retired black QB's I'd go Moon, McNabb, Cunningham, McNair, and Vick in that order.  In fifteen years the list might read like Mahomes, Wilson, Moon, Jackson, and McNabb in that order.  Apologies to Newton, Culpepper, and Watson.

[Solomon Grundy]

10 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

You make a strong point there chief. 

 

Trent Dilfer is also better than Dan Marino, amirite?

Let me ask you this, was Dilfer SB MVP like Williams was? I’m guessing you’re a Jeff Blake fan, family member or agent but better than Doug Williams?  Come on man!!

Edited November 24, 2019 by the skycap

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

Meanwhile, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer asked Dan Marino and Jim Kelly where their SB rings were

Russell Wilson is number 1 on my list

Brad Johnson nor Trent Dilfer were the reasons their respective teams won SB. Doug Williams was and his MVP trophy proved it.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, the skycap said:

Brad Johnson nor Trent Dilfer were the reasons their respective teams won SB. Doug Williams was and his MVP trophy proved it.

The broncos scored 10 points.  Yet Doug Williams is “the reason” the Redskins won.  Ok.  Williams played a tremendous quarter.  The best quarter in SB history.  
 

Williams wasn’t the only reason they won 42-10, which is what is implied (imo) when you say johnson not dilfer were “the reasons” they won.  

[billsfan1959]

6 hours ago, purple haze said:

?.  America was built on a system of white supremacy.  So you truly believe that race Is not a consideration in sports?  It was widely suggested that Lamar Jackson play WR before LAST YEAR'S draft.  Kaepernick got blackballed for being the ringleader and face of a protest against systemic racial issues, which have roots in white supremacy.

 

It's good that you have a diverse group of friends.  However, most applications we fill out in this country asks for a person's ethnicity; but we're all humans and Americans, right?  It matters in this country and do not make the mistake of thinking history is so far in the past.  History always has a hand in the present sometimes for better, but often-times for worse.

 

Colin Kaepernick became a circus for any team that employed him. Quite honestly, he wasn't good enough to offset the circus that came with him, and he didn't seem to have any interest in actually concentrating on what he was being paid to do: play football. I don't recall any other football player taking a knee during the anthem or being vocal about racial injustice that has a hard time staying employed by the NFL.

 

It was not "widely" suggested that Lamar Jackson play wide receiver. It was a suggestion by some - and it was not based on his race. It was based on his athleticism and questions regarding his potential as a "passing" QB (Were you as offended when there were suggestions by some that Tim Tebow should play tight end?).

 

There weren't calls for Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Dak Precott, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, etc. to become wide receivers. You are right, history is not too far in the past. However, if views and perceptions by most Americans were still the same as they were not all that long ago - none of those men would be playing in the NFL.

 

@fansince88wasn't suggesting their aren't racial issues in this country or that they haven't played a role in virtually every aspect of society. He was simply saying it is not nearly as pervasive as it was. We are human beings that, by nature are imperfect (and will never reach perfection) and there are still plenty of examples around us of racism, sexism, etc., etc.; however, we have, and are continuing to, evolve as a society. Things have gotten better and will continue to get better.

 

To quote Victor Hugo, "...we recognize one thing: that the human race has been badly manhandled, but that it has moved forward.”

Edited November 24, 2019 by billsfan1959

[Luka]

Moon

McNabb

McNair

Vick

Williams

 

Culpepper and Cunningham with Williams is kind of a toss up at 5. I'll give the Super Bowl MVP the benefit of the doubt.

36 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

(Were you as offended when there were suggestions by some that Tim Tebow should play tight end?).

 

Yes, yes I was.

[Needle]

Willie Beamen is right up there with the best

[Kirby Jackson]

43 minutes ago, Luka said:

Moon

McNabb

McNair

Vick

Williams

 

Culpepper and Cunningham with Williams is kind of a toss up at 5. I'll give the Super Bowl MVP the benefit of the doubt.

 

Yes, yes I was.

No mention of Russell Wilson?!? He should have 2 Super Bowls (run the ball Pete!!) and likely will have an MVP after this year. 
 

If Wilson wins 1 more game he will be the 1st QB in the 100 year history of the NFL to have a winning record in each of his first 8 seasons. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I’m still waiting for the list of best QB’s that are

 

German

 Canadian 

French

Spanish

Greek

Indian

Yellow

Blue

Green

Tan

Red

 

 

 

[Albwan]

WOW peoples head would explode and liberals would be picketing espn offices

is they ever had a "Top 5 white qb" thing.

ESPN is despicable garbage.

[purple haze]

2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Colin Kaepernick became a circus for any team that employed him. Quite honestly, he wasn't good enough to offset the circus that came with him, and he didn't seem to have any interest in actually concentrating on what he was being paid to do: play football. I don't recall any other football player taking a knee during the anthem or being vocal about racial injustice that has a hard time staying employed by the NFL.

 

It was not "widely" suggested that Lamar Jackson play wide receiver. It was a suggestion by some - and it was not based on his race. It was based on his athleticism and questions regarding his potential as a "passing" QB (Were you as offended when there were suggestions by some that Tim Tebow should play tight end?).

 

There weren't calls for Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Dak Precott, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, etc. to become wide receivers. You are right, history is not too far in the past. However, if views and perceptions by most Americans were still the same as they were not all that long ago - none of those men would be playing in the NFL.

 

@fansince88wasn't suggesting their aren't racial issues in this country or that they haven't played a role in virtually every aspect of society. He was simply saying it is not nearly as pervasive as it was. We are human beings that, by nature are imperfect (and will never reach perfection) and there are still plenty of examples around us of racism, sexism, etc., etc.; however, we have, and are continuing to, evolve as a society. Things have gotten better and will continue to get better.

 

To quote Victor Hugo, "...we recognize one thing: that the human race has been badly manhandled, but that it has moved forward.”

I understand your points.  Jackson to WR is the latest example of the position switch idea.  And I would say it was more than some.  I'm talking not  just NFL people, but many among the numerous draft pundit websites.  Yes, due to his athleticism and unique abilities.  But those traits weren't considered applicable to the "standard" model of the traditional white QB.  Warren Moon had to go to the CFL.  He was "standard" size, a pocket QB.  Tebow was a great college QB,  but not as dynamic as Jackson In any way.  There's no comparison between the two.

 

Kaepernick is a QB.  He will automatically take on more significance by virtue of being in that position, as well as being the first player to protest in the way that he did.  The circus aspect, is true.  However, from my eye, that circus, in large part, is based on willful misinformation about why he was protesting. Misinformation that really was a cover for people who weren't comfortable with or outright don't care about what his protest was highlighting; which  takes me back to my first point about the foundation America was built upon.

 

There has been a great deal of progress in general.  There is a lot still to be made.    

[Rick 'r Mortis]

Weird.

[fansince88]

5 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Colin Kaepernick became a circus for any team that employed him. Quite honestly, he wasn't good enough to offset the circus that came with him, and he didn't seem to have any interest in actually concentrating on what he was being paid to do: play football. I don't recall any other football player taking a knee during the anthem or being vocal about racial injustice that has a hard time staying employed by the NFL.

 

It was not "widely" suggested that Lamar Jackson play wide receiver. It was a suggestion by some - and it was not based on his race. It was based on his athleticism and questions regarding his potential as a "passing" QB (Were you as offended when there were suggestions by some that Tim Tebow should play tight end?).

 

There weren't calls for Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Dak Precott, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, etc. to become wide receivers. You are right, history is not too far in the past. However, if views and perceptions by most Americans were still the same as they were not all that long ago - none of those men would be playing in the NFL.

 

@fansince88wasn't suggesting their aren't racial issues in this country or that they haven't played a role in virtually every aspect of society. He was simply saying it is not nearly as pervasive as it was. We are human beings that, by nature are imperfect (and will never reach perfection) and there are still plenty of examples around us of racism, sexism, etc., etc.; however, we have, and are continuing to, evolve as a society. Things have gotten better and will continue to get better.

 

To quote Victor Hugo, "...we recognize one thing: that the human race has been badly manhandled, but that it has moved forward.”

Thanks for noticing my point. I was done defending myself but thanks.

Edited November 24, 2019 by fansince88

[TH3]

On 11/23/2019 at 10:40 AM, Gugny said:

 

I'm surprised it's 2019 and we're still making separate lists for black athletes/people.  

 

Pathetic.

Be strong....hang in there!!

[Real McClappy]

This list is really Broken.

 

Cunningham

Moon 

McNabb

Wilson

Edited November 24, 2019 by Real McCoy

[Nelius]

4 hours ago, Albwan said:

WOW peoples head would explode and liberals would be picketing espn offices

is they ever had a "Top 5 white qb" thing.

ESPN is despicable garbage.

 

This was so low profile that people still don't even know what the actual question/conversation was. Calm down. A random poster recapped something he thought he heard and you're ready to fight a liberal lol.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Nelius

[Agent 91]

On 11/23/2019 at 1:47 AM, NC Book said:

How about the top 10 white rbs? Would Tim Tindale crack that list? 

Lol Thomas Jervey

CAREY BENDER

Edited November 24, 2019 by Agent 91

[John Gianelli]

5 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I’m still waiting for the list of best QB’s that are

 

German

 Canadian 

French

Spanish

Greek

Indian

Yellow

Blue

Green

Tan

Red

 

 

 

Call the Freddie Coleman show when he asks for your 15-second comments and see what he says.

[SoTier]

On 11/23/2019 at 11:23 AM, Gugny said:

 

I just don't find it necessary to segregate when ranking anything.  Rank the best QBs, period.  I realize the position has historically been dominated by white men; just like the CB and WR positions have historically been dominated by black men.

 

Why don't we see a "Best White WRs of All Time," list?  

 

Optics.  That's why.

 

It's not just sports.  Forbes made a list titled, "The Black Billionaires 2019."  Again ... I get it.  It wasn't that long ago that MLK marched and was subsequently assassinated.

 

But these kinds of lists, regardless of their intention, do nothing but perpetuate segregation.

 

I just think it's dumb.  

 

That's because you're white and the color of your skin has never been a defining aspect of your life because you have always been in the majority -- unless you're some sick racist asshat who hates anybody and everybody who doesn't look like you -- which I don't think you are based on your postings on TSW.  Many times we whites think some blacks are overly sensitive and "want to make everything about race" but we aren't reminded almost daily that we are white so we take race for granted.  Although racism isn't usually as blatant  as it was a few decades ago, it's unfortunately alive and well in some places because old ideas and old habits die hard.  

 

Contrary to your claim that these lists "perpetuate segregation", they actually provide hope and inspiration for black people who may be struggling just to make it day to day as well as a reminder to whites of blacks' historical and current achievements despite racist stereotypes that exist.  It's no different from women celebrating the historic and current achievements of other women, although doing that makes a certain segment of the male population uncomfortable, too.