2019 Biils = 2018 Bears?

[ProcessTruster]

Lots of wins against bad teams.  Great defense.   Lots of hype around the young QB.  Etc Etc.   Big falloff the next season against better competition.   1) Is this what we have to look forward to or 2) are the Bills being built to last?    I believe in #2 (obviously).  Bills get AFC and NFC West next season/lots of west coast travel/prime games etc. 

 

What say you?  

[ProcessYaDigg]

I say, let's focus on this Sunday only

[Mrbojanglezs]

Parallels but not the same. 

 

Let's see what we do with all our draft picks and cap space, we could be a much more talented team next year. 

 

Allen has more upside than Trubisky 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I'll agree to an extent. Last year's bears had a ton of turnovers and short fields. We haven't been doing much of that so we're asking the offense to take care of the ball. Pittsburgh or SF would be the ones expected to regress in that category YoY.

[gobills1212]

Id never thought to compare these two teams before. Interesting

[Hebert19]

15 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

Lots of wins against bad teams.  Great defense.   Lots of hype around the young QB.  Etc Etc.   Big falloff the next season against better competition.   1) Is this what we have to look forward to or 2) are the Bills being built to last?    I believe in #2 (obviously).  Bills get AFC and NFC West next season/lots of west coast travel/prime games etc. 

 

What say you?  

Possibly.   But difference is we didnt blow all our first rounders on a terrible QB and a DE...so we can still add talent this year thru draft and 90 million in cap room.  

 

We will get better next year.  They regressed. 

[Stank_Nasty]

I said all offseason the bears provided a good template last year. Good defense. Spend resources revamping the offense.... only difference in my eyes is I think Nagy used smoke and mirrors, and gadgets to get people open for Trubisky and hide some of his flaws. I don’t see the same approach with our qb, THANKFULLY

Edited November 19, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[unclepete]

I thought the same thing on Sunday. Just we aren't as good as Chicago was last year. We've got an all time east schedule to this point so how we finish the year will say a lot. 

[Big Turk]

No Allen is much better than Trubisky

[warrior9]

There's literally zero hype around our QB..... there's actually the exact opposite within the media..

 

last year for the bears the narrative was that Trubisky turned the corner.... not the same here.

 

Edit: and yes, Allen is much better than MT

Edited November 19, 2019 by warrior9

[eball]

Why do some feel the incessant need to compare teams from different organizations and different years?  Each year and each team face different circumstances and are made up of different players and coaches.  I don't know what purpose it serves unless you're simply trying to "rank" all-time best or worst squads.

 

Young QB and good defense.  Those are the only two parallels that can be drawn between the '19 Bills and '18 Bears.  And by themselves they say absolutely nothing.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

Lots of wins against bad teams.  Great defense.   Lots of hype around the young QB.  Etc Etc.   Big falloff the next season against better competition.   1) Is this what we have to look forward to or 2) are the Bills being built to last?    I believe in #2 (obviously).  Bills get AFC and NFC West next season/lots of west coast travel/prime games etc. 

 

What say you?  

 

Sorry that you feel that way, the only thing there is to say is...
Every silver lining's got a touch of grey.

 

I know the rent is in arrears, the dog has not been fed in years

it's even worse than it appears but, it's all right

Cow is giving kerosene, kid can't read at seventeen
The words he knows are all obscene, but it's all right
I will get by, I will get by, I will get by, I will survive.

 

Seriously speaking, can you give 3 instances where you feel the Bills offense and/or defense are comparable to the 2018 Bears, other than the superficial "lots of hype around the young QB"?

 

I'll give 3 where I see differences:

1) Trubisky was being annointed last year.  #1 pick, 66% completions, team winning.  Probably hard to tune that out and say "damn, I need work, got to grind this off season"

Pretty much any hype Allen gets at this point, is negative hype.  Ditto for the Bills team "worst 6-2 team ever" etc etc.  If Allen doesn't get the message that he needs to keep taking steps 4x4, he must have bananas in his ears.

2) Bears as I remember were quite dependent upon a top-10 rush game (#6 for attempts) that was under-productive (#11 for yards).  Their rush game fell off a cliff this year and as it went, so went their season this year.  I don't follow them enough to say why that's the case, but if it's OL, that would explain Trubisky as well.  Young QBs need time to throw.  Even Lamar Jackson needs it.

3) Bears D depends upon the performance of some legit superstars, headlined by Khalil Mack.  I'm not aware of how they were in the trenches, but if they didn't build talent across the team, it's not sustainable.  And because of the move for Mack etc they do not have a lot of cap to add players.

 

I would say the fundamental difference would come down to roster strategy and cap space.  The Bills have a lot of cap space and picks to keep improving.  The Bears made a splashy FA move that put their D over the top, but left them short on cap space, which limits their roster improvement strategies.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Nagy was Coached under Reid for years. I think Nagy got about as much as he could out of Trubisky. I don’t see the same with Daboll and Allen.

I also trust Beane to see what is needed and address it in the offseason through FA, draft, and talks with Sean about coaches.

[GunnerBill]

I think there is some similarity and I think the Bills will likely win fewer games in 2020 than 2019 because I do think that schedule with the travelling and the opposition will prove tough. But I think the key difference is the Bears are pretty much in start over territory offensively. Their line is creaking, their QB has regressed and their receivers are not performing. I don't expect that to be the case with the Bills. If we go 10-6 this year and then 8-8 next year I don't think that is panic stations time. Obviously a lot needs to play out between now and then but I can even see a scenario where the 2020 Bills team goes 8-8 and yet is better in many ways than the 2019 team going 10-6. I think that happened to an extent with Rex. His 2015 team hugely underperformed and went 8-8 then his 2016 team played better on a tougher schedule and went 7-9 (I know Rex missed the last game).

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

46 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

What say you?  

Ask Santa for a ‘Magic 8 Ball’.

[fergie's ire]

6 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Nagy was Coached under Reid for years. I think Nagy got about as much as he could out of Trubisky. I don’t see the same with Daboll and Allen.

I also trust Beane to see what is needed and address it in the offseason through FA, draft, and talks with Sean about coaches.

And have set themselves up to do so.  The bears were giving away picks and signing big contracts (or at least one really big contract).  The Bills have been collecting picks and keeping cap space open to build for the future.

[PromoTheRobot]

47 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

Lots of wins against bad teams.  Great defense.   Lots of hype around the young QB.  Etc Etc.   Big falloff the next season against better competition.   1) Is this what we have to look forward to or 2) are the Bills being built to last?    I believe in #2 (obviously).  Bills get AFC and NFC West next season/lots of west coast travel/prime games etc. 

 

What say you?  

 

Next season's schedule looks pretty tough. I suppose there are parallels to the Bears. My question is what did the Bears do to get better from last year? We're they hamstrung but cap and lost draft picks?

 

The Bills are unfinished for sure, but they have the potential and resources to take a big step up next year. Maybe that's why you don't trade away your high picks or sign every name player that comes along.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'll give 3 where I see differences:

1) Trubisky was being annointed last year.  #1 pick, 66% completions, team winning.  Probably hard to tune that out and say "damn, I need work, got to grind this off season"

Pretty much any hype Allen gets at this point, is negative hype.  Ditto for the Bills team "worst 6-2 team ever" etc etc.  If Allen doesn't get the message that he needs to keep taking steps 4x4, he must have bananas in his ears.

2) Bears as I remember were quite dependent upon a top-10 rush game (#6 for attempts) that was under-productive (#11 for yards).  Their rush game fell off a cliff this year and as it went, so went their season this year.  I don't follow them enough to say why that's the case, but if it's OL, that would explain Trubisky as well.  Young QBs need time to throw.  Even Lamar Jackson needs it.

3) Bears D depends upon the performance of some legit superstars, headlined by Khalil Mack.  I'm not aware of how they were in the trenches, but if they didn't build talent across the team, it's not sustainable.  And because of the move for Mack etc they do not have a lot of cap to add players.

 

Bears Oline has definitely been worse. Not sure how much of that is the loss of Kyle Long (I think their RT has been nicked up too) but I think a lot of it is just teams doing a better job of working out what the Bears were doing in the run game. They had a lot of misdirection success and that has fallen off which I think is just opponents catching up to Nagy's smoke and mirrors. The second element of that is teams saying "we are not convinced on this Trubisky guy, let's make him beat us". That was entirely Green Bay's plan week 1 and it worked very effectively. Think teams have been copying ever since.

 

The loss of Vic Fangio is also an underrated aspect. He is a very good DC. The biggest reason is Trubisky though. He has regressed as some of the easy throws have been taken away be opposing defenses. He has never been a great reader of a defense and that is hurting him.

[auburnbillsbacker]

The Bills schedule will be harder next year but they will have more talent.  I expect a similar win total.  

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

I'll agree to an extent. Last year's bears had a ton of turnovers and short fields. We haven't been doing much of that so we're asking the offense to take care of the ball. Pittsburgh or SF would be the ones expected to regress in that category YoY.

 

This is a huge difference between the two teams and demonstrates we are not the 2018 Bears.

 

I don't want to rag on a D that is playing very well but their utter inability to generate turnovers, particularly on the opponents side of the field does our offense no favors.  Through 10 games the Bill's D has created only ONE TO in an opponents red zone.  In fact the defense has only forced a total of TWO TO's on the opponents side of the field.

 

Even in the Miami game where the D was putting all sorts of pressure on Fitz they didn't create a TO.  Yea the Dolphins did lose a fumble but it had nothing to do with Buffalo's D forcing the fumble.

 

IF we start forcing TO's on the opponents side of the field and given our offenses strength in the red zone we might see a real burst in points and then we might more closely resemble the 2018 Bears. 

[billspro]

1 hour ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Parallels but not the same. 

 

Let's see what we do with all our draft picks and cap space, we could be a much more talented team next year. 

 

Allen has more upside than Trubisky 

 

Agreed, Trubiskys ceiling was Tannehill.

[CincyBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

The Bills schedule will be harder next year but they will have more talent.  I expect a similar win total.  

 

Will it be? 

 

Most people expected the Jets to be a playoff team this year; ditto for Cleveland.  Look how Pitt went from a possible Super Bowl team to a team likely to finish under 500.  Until we actually start playing games next season we have no idea whether it will be a weak or hard schedule.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

The Bills schedule will be harder next year but they will have more talent.  I expect a similar win total.  

 

I hope so.  It all depends upon Beane & Co's ability to scout offensive talent and willingness to pull the trigger a few times on the O side of the ball.

 

It also all depends upon what's between Allen's ears.  If he keeps fighting to improve, and takes another step, the sky is the limit!

[row_33]

Bears have had 2 garbage fluke seasons since 2000, with Jauron and last season, totally undeserved and totally exposed the next season.

 

maybe due to it being the weakest division in football for a long time now?

 

[PaattMaann]

this comparison has been made since like the patriots loss. Except there is ZERO hype around Allen like there was with Trubisky lol. I guess theres a comparison...but, who cares? We are 7-3 against the teams we have played, and theres no secret we have a really solid defense that is the strength of our team, and an offense that needs to keep improving. We will likely face a really tough opponent if we make it to the wildcard round and who knows what will happen. 

 

Next years schedule, as of now, does look a lot harder. And even if we get better we could struggle to get to 10/11 wins. NFC West looks really good. But, its way too early to call it a tough schedule (its too difficult week to week let alone a year out!) with injuries/free agency/coaching changes/luck etc. Who knows so what is the point of comparing the two? 

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

Possibly.   But difference is we didnt blow all our first rounders on a terrible QB and a DE...so we can still add talent this year thru draft and 90 million in cap room.  

 

We will get better next year.  They regressed. 

This. The difference is we didn’t trade the top half of a draft away for a defensive end.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

This. The difference is we didn’t trade the top half of a draft away for a defensive end.

 

Yeah they made that Mack trade to like - be elite. And it sort of worked year 1 with all those takeaways. Trubiskey is a miss tho, so back to the drawing board. I'd expect them to draft a QB but they may also be in the market for a vet.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

Yeah they made that Mack trade to like - be elite. And it sort of worked year 1 with all those takeaways. Trubiskey is a miss tho, so back to the drawing board. I'd expect them to draft a QB but they may also be in the market for a vet.

Yep. It’s the kind of move you ONLY make when you know you’re set at QB, it looks like they miscalculated badly on Trubisky. 

[row_33]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Yep. It’s the kind of move you ONLY make when you know you’re set at QB, it looks like they miscalculated badly on Trubisky. 

 

during the offseason before the second season of a QB the opponents take a 100% microscope review of his first year work

 

they can't put the resources into it during the season, so rookies and other surprises erupt for a season

 

leads to "sophomore slumps"

 

[r00tabaga]

I dunno, Ive seen a couple Bears games this year and rarely do I ever see Nagy clap profusely. These teams are similar in Defense otherwise.

I also think the Biils are setup nice for next year. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by r00tabaga

[row_33]

Bears have a savior at QB?

 

not likely ever

 

not blessed with a QB, other areas they have been blessed

 

[BADOLBILZ]

It's definitely a good topic.

 

A lot has been touched on but I will add this:

 

I never liked Trubisky.   Didn't understand the fuss about him as a prospect.  But I thought the Bears did a much, much better job of propping him up last year than the Bills have done with Allen this year.   Allen has been in sink or swim mode with this personnel and complicated offense all season and he's held his own.    That's encouraging if nothing else.

 

That Bears D was a lot more physical than this Bills D this year.  Despite the fact that they are both good that is the difference to me.  Bills D is finesse and positioning by comparison.

 

The Bills are an old team.......6th or 7th oldest in the league...........so it's fair to wonder if they are really ascending roster wise yet.    They aren't just stacking cheese here Beane is going to have to keep up a lot of maneuvering just to maintain.

 

But IMO the framework is there to build on and they have the resources from The Pegs and winning is a good look in recruiting and helps keep the message on point in the locker room so there is much reason for optimism that they won't regress or plateau over the next couple seasons.

[eball]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The Bills are an old team.......6th or 7th oldest in the league...........so it's fair to wonder if they are really ascending roster wise yet.

 

LOL.  You think Frank Gore and Lorax have anything to do with that?  And so we don't overreact to this statistic the Bills' average age at cutdown was 26.3 and the youngest team (Miami) was 25.2.  The Pats*** are the oldest at 27.0.

 

The Bills are very young in a lot of key areas -- QB, RB, TE, LB, DT, CB

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Yep. It’s the kind of move you ONLY make when you know you’re set at QB, it looks like they miscalculated badly on Trubisky. 

 

Agree with this and I said it at the time too.

[row_33]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree with this and I said it at the time too.

 

so why did they fluke out with last year?

 

bad division and 4 games against another bad division?

 

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

That Bears D was a lot more physical than this Bills D this year.  Despite the fact that they are both good that is the difference to me.  Bills D is finesse and positioning by comparison.

 

Agree with this.

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

 

so why did they fluke out with last year?

 

bad division and 4 games against another bad division?

 

 

So they went 5-1 in their own division. Then they beat the Cardinals, 49ers, Bills and Jets all of whom were differing degrees of useless. They were well coached and played up to a good level and won some tight games.

[row_33]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree with this.

 

So they went 5-1 in their own division. Then they beat the Cardinals, 49ers, Bills and Jets all of whom were differing degrees of useless. They were well coached and played up to a good level and won some tight games.

 

and the media jumped on and hyped this "winning horse" the last half of the season

 

same old Bears, can't find a good QB since Sid Luckman

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, eball said:

 

LOL.  You think Frank Gore and Lorax have anything to do with that?  And so we don't overreact to this statistic the Bills' average age at cutdown was 26.3 and the youngest team (Miami) was 25.2.  The Pats*** are the oldest at 27.0.

 

The Bills are very young in a lot of key areas -- QB, RB, TE, LB, DT, CB

 

 

Their age rank isn't by any means deceptive........it's reflective of the fact that they are going to require more turnover than most.

 

You can sustain that way.   The Pats excel at turning over the roster and still playing excellent football.

 

And on the flip side as I've mentioned many times the SB winning Seahawks were the youngest team in the entire NFL and just a few years later their roster was unrecognizable and they were rebuilding as a QB/offense driven team.

 

Good organizations know that changing on the fly is key to success.........I don't sweat it if the Bills want to live on the older side of the roster scale..........but by the same token people gotta' stop with the "we got 9 new starters wadduya expect!" like that's some big excuse in the high turnover NFL. 

      

[Orlando Tim]

We should be more sustainable since we are not relying on as many "luck" factors such as turnovers or large comebacks. The games we have won we have generally been in control of for the majority of game. But if Allen does not keep improving then maybe.

[Nextmanup]

4 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

Lots of wins against bad teams.  Great defense.   Lots of hype around the young QB.  Etc Etc.   Big falloff the next season against better competition.   1) Is this what we have to look forward to or 2) are the Bills being built to last?    I believe in #2 (obviously).  Bills get AFC and NFC West next season/lots of west coast travel/prime games etc. 

 

What say you?  

You are not the first person to draw this analogy and I think it's relevant.

 

Allen gets by, now, on "he's still learning" and "he's young" and all of this.

 

That crap will all finally go away only next year.

 

He'll still be the same player he has always been.  The difference will be fan expectations will have changed and patience will have worn thin.

 

And then this fanbase will start to catch on that we need to find a QB.

 

The schedule next year is brutal.  Expect a regression for sure.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Nextmanup