Pro Football Network: Bills one of teams in on Clowney trade

[Cornette's Commentary]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Its too late for multiple moves

 

We have enough LG's now that have been getting reps at LG

Nsekhe to LT where he has played before

Ford has been playing RT.....no need to move him

Dawkins and Shady traded for 1 year of Clowney

1 year, and then he goes to New England on a 5, 6 year deal?

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said:

 

Define the farm? Starting tackle?

 

 

To me that's too much for a possible rental. Has to be a surplus player(s) Shady or Yeldon, Zay or WIlliams or Foster, maybe Shaq. No high picks. That's my comfort range.

[billsfan89]

49 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

I mean, Trent Williams for Clowney seems to make almost too much sense. Williams is adamant about never ever returning to that viper pit in Washington and Snyder’s stupid enough to make a trade for a guy with no guarantee he’ll resign after this year.

 

Couldn't a team just franchise Clowney again? If the Bills or another team were to trade for Clowney and play him out on a franchise tender and he didn't want to sign a verbal offer that was in place once the trade was completed (Let's say he plays insanely well) then couldn't a team just franchise him again and at least turn around and trade him again if he doesn't want to resign? 

 

Is there something I am missing about the situation? 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Cornette's Commentary said:

1 year, and then he goes to New England on a 5, 6 year deal?

One year to impress upon him that he should stay longer.......we are a team on the rise who can actually pay him

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

1 year, and then he goes to New England on a 5, 6 year deal?

 

He could do that whether the Bills trade for him or not.  But when was the last time the Patriots paid top of the market long term for any player? They don't even pay Brady top dollar! Isn't that their M.O.? No big long contracts? 

Edited August 26, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[nucci]

4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Couldn't a team just franchise Clowney again? If the Bills or another team were to trade for Clowney and play him out on a franchise tender and he didn't want to sign a verbal offer that was in place once the trade was completed (Let's say he plays insanely well) then couldn't a team just franchise him again and at least turn around and trade him again if he doesn't want to resign? 

 

Is there something I am missing about the situation? 

It would be a huge 1 year deal  if they did...I think 2nd tag is 20% raise

Edited August 26, 2019 by nucci

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

1 year, and then he goes to New England on a 5, 6 year deal?

 

Man, you’re a broken record.  You realize he can go to NE next year no matter what team traded for him?  

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

It would be a huge 1 year if they did...I think 2nd tag is 20% raise

 

But still possible in order to retain him in a hypothetical scenario. 

[Cornette's Commentary]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

One year to impress upon him that he should stay longer.......we are a team on the rise who can actually pay him

Only if Josh Allen progresses.  If he doesn't, I don't see Clowney wanting to stick around through a coaching change, and another quest for a franchise QB, whether it be Tua, Justin Herbert, or Jake Fromm.

[nucci]

Just now, billsfan89 said:

 

But still possible in order to retain him in a hypothetical scenario. 

Yes

[JoPar_v2]

3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Couldn't a team just franchise Clowney again? If the Bills or another team were to trade for Clowney and play him out on a franchise tender and he didn't want to sign a verbal offer that was in place once the trade was completed (Let's say he plays insanely well) then couldn't a team just franchise him again and at least turn around and trade him again if he doesn't want to resign? 

 

Is there something I am missing about the situation? 

 

Yes good point - any team could franchise him again next year. That becomes prohibitively expensive quickly though, and considering he’s reluctant to even sign a year 1 franchise tender, odds of him signing two a la Cousins are low.

[nucci]

Players can be franchise-tagged in consecutive seasons, but the financial downside for teams increases each time. Two years in a row, for example, means the player receives 120% of his previous year’s salary, and every subsequent year, that percentage would scale upward and become costlier.

[Metal Man]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

He could do that whether the Bills trade for him or not.  But when was the last time the Patriots paid top of the market long term for any player? They don't even pay Brady top dollar! Isn't that their M.O.? No big long contracts? 

 

They went pretty high on Gilmore, but I get what you're saying. That definitely was an anomaly as chasing the high end FAs is usually not what they do.

[LSHMEAB]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

He could do that whether the Bills trade for him or not.  But when was the last time the Patriots paid top of the market long term for any player? They don't even pay Brady top dollar! Isn't that their M.O.? No big long contracts? 

I take your point, but the last time they did this, they poached a guy from the Bills. I would agree I'm less concerned about NE than the average team out there in this situation.

 

Still say you roll the dice here. Without at least a verbal commit, you're not giving up a first. Beyond that, make it happen.

[klos63]

19 minutes ago, Logic said:

The only two reputable, reliable sources to speak on this rumor so far have both stated that they move isn't likely. 

The only people keeping this rumor alive are bored Bills fans. It ain't happening.

This guy thinks we may need to deal with the contracts of Alexander , Hauschka and Spain in the next few years?  Really?   36 year old, 34 year old, and an average guard.

6 minutes ago, nucci said:

Players can be franchise-tagged in consecutive seasons, but the financial downside for teams increases each time. Two years in a row, for example, means the player receives 120% of his previous year’s salary, and every subsequent year, that percentage would scale upward and become costlier.

so that would be more then.

[whatdrought]

22 minutes ago, Logic said:

The only two reputable, reliable sources to speak on this rumor so far have both stated that they move isn't likely. 

The only people keeping this rumor alive are bored Bills fans. It ain't happening.

 

To play devils advocate, how many trades are likely to happen before they happen? Not saying it will happen, and it's unlikely for sure, but a lack of the ESPN guy knowing about it doesn't mean it wont. 

[mjt328]

4 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

What about player(s) like McCoy/Nsekhe/Zay and a conditional 2nd that turns into a 1st if he is re-signed? I feel like the players aren't missed since they're older and/or redundant and losing the pick hurts just enough to make sense for me.

 

If Cowney walks in free agency you basically swap a 2nd for a 3rd for one year of Clowney (without going into franchise tag options).

 

If he stays, a huge need would be filled. The 1st round pick would probably be used on a pass rusher anyway. You never know how that player will turn out and how long it will take them to reach their prime. Clowney is more of a sure thing.

 

As for the salary difference, it doesn't matter much since Buffalo has plenty of space for the next couple of years. Hopefully Clowney's new deal would be front loaded, leaving more cap space to re-sign Allen/Edmunds/White. However, even with a big salary for Clowney there will be plenty of cap space to sign everyone.

 

Not sure I would give up a 1st Round Pick under any circumstance.  Even if it was conditional.

Most draft classes just have too much talent in the Top 20-25.  General Managers who know what they are doing (which I believe applies to Brandon Beane) will hit on these picks the vast majority of the time.  The highest pick I would consider is a conditional 3rd Rounder, which then turned into a 2nd Rounder.

 

I'm OK with trading players like LeSean McCoy, Frank Gore, Jerry Hughes, Lorenzo Alexander.... pretty much anyone who won't be contributing to our team within the next 2-3 seasons.  

 

Bottom line... If this whole thing goes as planned, the Bills will be a 10-win playoff team this year.  By next season, they will be displacing the Patriots atop the AFC East.  By 2021, they will be serious contenders for the Super Bowl.  Obviously it's important to build confidence and start winning NOW.  But all roster moves need to be made with the future in mind.  When we start talking about using future draft picks for high-priced vets, I start getting really skeptical.

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

8 minutes ago, nucci said:

Players can be franchise-tagged in consecutive seasons, but the financial downside for teams increases each time. Two years in a row, for example, means the player receives 120% of his previous year’s salary, and every subsequent year, that percentage would scale upward and become costlier.

 

Yes, but the Bills or any team could trade him and not get greedy like Texans and take whatever ever they can prior to July so another team can sign long term.

 

 

No news to me either means:

 

Bills aren’t interested as reports state

Clowney won’t sign tag to go Buffalo or Miami so Texans looking for another team.

Clowney is OK with Buffalo but teams can’t agree on deal likely. Eans longer it drags out, less capital going to Texans. 

[Paulus]

15 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

He could do that whether the Bills trade for him or not.  But when was the last time the Patriots paid top of the market long term for any player? They don't even pay Brady top dollar! Isn't that their M.O.? No big long contracts? 

Gilmore was paid for. And, many of the Bills fans on here that said he was an average DB have got to see him given All-Pro status. I'm sure they will still argue he is average when he gets inducted into the HoF. 

 

I like pointing out ignorance.

[Cornette's Commentary]

3 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Not sure I would give up a 1st Round Pick under any circumstance.  Even if it was conditional.

Most draft classes just have too much talent in the Top 20-25.  General Managers who know what they are doing (which I believe applies to Brandon Beane) will hit on these picks the vast majority of the time.  The highest pick I would consider is a conditional 3rd Rounder, which then turned into a 2nd Rounder.

 

I'm OK with trading players like LeSean McCoy, Frank Gore, Jerry Hughes, Lorenzo Alexander.... pretty much anyone who won't be contributing to our team within the next 2-3 seasons.  

 

Bottom line... If this whole thing goes as planned, the Bills will be a 10-win playoff team this year.  By next season, they will be displacing the Patriots atop the AFC East.  By 2021, they will be serious contenders for the Super Bowl.  Obviously it's important to build confidence and start winning NOW.  But all roster moves need to be made with the future in mind.  When we start talking about using future draft picks for high-priced vets, I start getting really skeptical.

 

 

How do you know that?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Cornette's Commentary said:

How do you know that?

 

How do you not?

 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea wtf? 

 

Even Dawkins and White are two years away and I'm not even sure Dawkins is worth an extension. Give me a break. 

 

Dude put Jones on the list. ??

I had to stop and think about who Jones is

[Cornette's Commentary]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

How do you not?

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Cornette's Commentary said:

 

BAHAHAH come at me

 

[John from Riverside]

20 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

Only if Josh Allen progresses.  If he doesn't, I don't see Clowney wanting to stick around through a coaching change, and another quest for a franchise QB, whether it be Tua, Justin Herbert, or Jake Fromm.

You need to seriously give this a rest

[JoPar_v2]

23 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

He could do that whether the Bills trade for him or not.  But when was the last time the Patriots paid top of the market long term for any player? They don't even pay Brady top dollar! Isn't that their M.O.? No big long contracts? 

 

Gilmore?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

16 minutes ago, nucci said:

Players can be franchise-tagged in consecutive seasons, but the financial downside for teams increases each time. Two years in a row, for example, means the player receives 120% of his previous year’s salary, and every subsequent year, that percentage would scale upward and become costlier.

 

 

...Cousins was better than the "Great Train Robbery".......Willie Sutton was PO'ed.......Vikes putting $84 mil of eggs in that clown's basket?...best you'd get is salmonella......

[mjt328]

Just now, Cornette's Commentary said:

How do you know that?

 

Know what?  

 

I didn't say the Bills would win 10 games and make the playoffs.

I said that IF this rebuild goes as planned, we would win 10 games and make the playoffs.

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

How do you know that?

 

How do you know it won't?

[JoeF]

I don't think this will happen -- the "shiny toy" "oh look a puppy" regime left with Russ and Whaley...but who knows.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, mjt328 said:

 

Know what?  

 

I didn't say the Bills would win 10 games and make the playoffs.

I said that IF this rebuild goes as planned, we would win 10 games and make the playoffs.

...you're arguing with a flawed source.......

[NewEra]

25 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Man, you’re a broken record.  You realize he can go to NE next year no matter what team traded for him?  

 

If a team trades for him, I highly doubt they would let him go that easy.  Sure, 20% increase on the franchise cap is pricey, but it’s not as pricey as giving away draft picks for one year rentals.  

 

If we trade for him, I suspect he’d be a Bill for at least 2019 and 2020 or traded.

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It's ridiculous that it's even brought up.

 

Bills have NOTHING to worry about in terms of resigning their own guys ATM and won't for another couple years and at that point a lot could change. 

 

They have the cap room and the window is now to make a move like this. 

 

Contract extensions are of very little concern for at least 2 years.

 

After 2019, the guys that are noteworthy UFA/RFAs are:

Shady

Gore

McKenzie

Spain

J. Phillips

Shaq

LorAx

Stanford

K. Johnson

Hauschka

 

Maybe you re-sign Gore. You can probably keep LorAx pretty easily since he'll either return or retire. Besides those guys, I can't imagine they spend any serious money on the rest.

 

Then, after 2020, you're looking at:

Barkely

DiMarco

Zay

Nsekhe

Feliciano

Dawkins

Murphy

Milano

Poyer

 

They'll probably want to keep Dawkins, Milano, and Poyer.  No real bank-breakers there.

 

Money is not an issue for this team.

[BuffaloRebound]

Seems pretty stupid that he can’t be signed to a new contract if he is traded.  I guess it encourages the team tagging him to get a deal done and it reduces his trade value in a way that prevents a team from squatting on his rights.  Still, there are plenty of teams who’d probably sign him to a contract north of $50m in guarantees.  If he gets injured this year, he’d be leaving around $35m on the table because of this rule.  

[purple haze]

24 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea wtf? 

 

Even Dawkins and White are two years away and I'm not even sure Dawkins is worth an extension. Give me a break. 

 

Dude put Jones on the list. ??

He's speaking with sources inside the organization.  Do you have sources with conflicting information?   

[C.Biscuit97]

Shocking that a twitter account with 5,000 followers doesn’t have great information.

[PromoTheRobot]

29 minutes ago, Paulus said:

Gilmore was paid for. And, many of the Bills fans on here that said he was an average DB have got to see him given All-Pro status. I'm sure they will still argue he is average when he gets inducted into the HoF. 

 

I like pointing out ignorance.

 

It's the circle of life. They get Gilmore. We got Tre.

[Logic]

40 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea wtf? 

 

Even Dawkins and White are two years away and I'm not even sure Dawkins is worth an extension. Give me a break. 

 

Dude put Jones on the list. ??

Within the next two seasons, the Bills will need to extend Tre'Davious White, Matt Milano, Jordan Poyer, and Dion Dawkins. Contracts for LTs and CBs don't tend to be cheap.

I'm not saying the above contract extension needs should preclude the Bills from handing out a big contract to a guy like Clowney. But people who pretend like the Bills will ALWAYS be flush with cash are silly. Yes, they have a lot of it now. They also have a young core that they quite like, and in order to retain all of them, big contracts are going to be required.

Tre'Davious White
Jordan Poyer
Tremaine Edmunds
Matt Milano
Ed Oliver
Harrison Phillips
Dion Dawkins
Josh Allen

Again, the need to extend these players shouldn't preclude them from signing other guys if they so choose right now. However, if their goal is to retain their own drafted talent, and knowing that they have upcoming CB, LT, QB, DL, and MLB extensions in order to keep the young core in place, it's not outlandish for them to prioritize remaining financially solvent and not necessarily handing out record setting contracts to outside players.
 

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Couldn't a team just franchise Clowney again? If the Bills or another team were to trade for Clowney and play him out on a franchise tender and he didn't want to sign a verbal offer that was in place once the trade was completed (Let's say he plays insanely well) then couldn't a team just franchise him again and at least turn around and trade him again if he doesn't want to resign? 

 

Is there something I am missing about the situation? 

 

 

You might be be able to franchise him again - it depends on a couple of things:

 

1st he is fighting the franchise tag as OLB and looking to be tagged as a DE +2 million dollars for the initial tag - until that grievance is completed - he will not move onto part 2.

 

2nd - prior to signing the tag - once number 1 is completed - he can request stipulations - especially prior to be traded - if he wants to.  They can not talk money as that is set by the tag, but they can ask for clauses like if he makes the ProBowl - he can not be tagged a second time or even flat out not to be tagged a second time if they want him to sign.

 

These stipulations are sometimes agreed to and sometimes not and that can impact a holdout and prevent him signing his tag.  There have been multiple cases where teams have agreed not to franchise a player a second time to get him in and under contract.

 

Until all of this plays out - no one is trading for him because his current salary isn’t even set yet - for him to sign a tag.

[Reader]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

 

 

Anyways else surprised to see Zay listed in the in-house players to take care of?