Watching Allen last night...

[dollars 2 donuts]

9 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

He was sharp.  His confidence is building.

 

 

This...this is so big.

7 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I could more see one of the receivers getting traded, possibly even could become Zay if they are looking for a larger return.  We have a glut of WR at the 5th thru about 8th spots.  The other one could also become trade bait is Foster.  Not sure how much of a step up it is from say McKenzie/Ray-Ray to Foster.  May be Foster just needs too much motivation all the time to become worth keeping.

 

 

@Alphadawg7

 

It has taken me months, but I actually can see Alpha’s point and...man, there is a chance he could be right.

Edited August 18, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[tbarg12]

The fact that the Bills didn't punt till the 3rd quarter really stood out to me, even though it's preseason, it was nice to see drives that weren't just a 3 and out. 

Josh throwing to Beasley impressed me as well, 5-for-5 and 44 yards. Beasley will definitely be a huge factor this season. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, bills6969 said:

I see a lot of Aaron Rodgers in him.  Quick release,  huge arm and accurate.  Just need the Oline to step up and keep Allen on his feet and we may, just may, have something special.

 

i was thinking the same thing plus combined with Big Ben.

 

Thankfully he doesnt have the whiney b!tc# attitude of Rodgers.

 

 

5 hours ago, RochesterLifer said:

^^^

This, completely. McDermott took on a team two years ago that was famous for 20 years of dysfunction. He, with Beane, has been building and shaping the entire organization into one of thoughtful, forward-looking and strategic precision. I am optimistic about this year and even more excited about our long-term prospects. They're doing this right.   

 

but Schopp said culture doesn't matter ...

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

It was the best he's played in a Bills uniform, albeit in a preseason game. 

 

I did see some Rodgers in him with the quick delivery combined with arm strength that gets the ball there in a hurry. I'd take a few steps back before we start believing he'll ever be as good as Rodgers. That's PROBABLY not going to happen. You never know, but it's unlikely. At this point, I will say I'm more encouraged than I've ever been.

 

I STILL have no idea what that one guy was talking about in terms of his release. It's about as quick as I've seen from a guy his size. We all know what his issues are. Quick delivery is NOT one of them.

Edited August 17, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, VW82 said:

I know it's early but I think the Cole Beasley signing is going to wind up being an overwhelming success. Every QB needs someone they can trust. Allen wanted that guy to be Zay but he just isn't. Beasley gets open AND makes tough catches which Allen forces you to do sometimes. Watching Allen last night I saw chemistry developing with his new go-to guy. 

 

having Dabol is a huge plus as well . Bringing the NE offense and listening to the players is going make us dynamic.

 

 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

I thought he played well but every year, we all get fooled by the preseason.  It sucks but it’s completely meaningless and just a completely different game.  I have too many times getting excited by Trent and EJ to put any real stock in the preseason.  But i do like he was taking the short stuff. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

It was the best he's played in a Bills uniform, albeit in a preseason game. 

 

I did see some Rodgers in him with the quick delivery combined with arm strength that gets the ball there in a hurry. I'd take a few steps back before we start believing he'll EVER be as good as Rodgers. That's PROBABLY not going to happen. You never know, but it's unlikely. However, at this point, I'm as encouraged as I've ever been.

 

I STILL have no idea what that one guy was talking about in terms of his release. It's about as quick as I've seen from a guy his size. We all know what his issues are. Quick delivery is NOT one of them.

 

hes going to be way better than Rodgers; more talent and leadership. Rodgers comes off as a prima dona who doesn't get along with coaches and players.

 

 

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 I have too many times getting excited by Trent and EJ to put any real stock in the preseason.

 

EJ never looked that good against 1st stringers in preseason. To my eyes he never once looked like a franchise QB. He had a couple nice throws here and there but he never found a rhythm.

 

Edwards had the same problem Peterman has. As soon as defenses were playing at full speed he wasn't athletic or confident enough to move the ball. No comparison to Allen there at all. Some weaknesses you can hide in preseason, but Allen's weaknesses have noticeably improved and you can see that even against a vanilla defense.

 

The only thing I am waiting to see is what Allen looks like when defenses are blitzing him. He has learned to stay in the pocket and take what the defense gives him, which is a huge improvement even on last year's preseason. If he can do the same thing on blitzes he will look much much better this year.

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

EJ never looked that good against 1st stringers in preseason. To my eyes he never once looked like a franchise QB. He had a couple nice throws here and there but he never found a rhythm.

 

Edwards had the same problem Peterman has. As soon as defenses were playing at full speed he wasn't athletic or confident enough to move the ball. No comparison to Allen there at all. Some weaknesses you can hide in preseason, but Allen's weaknesses have noticeably improved and you can see that even against a vanilla defense.

 

The only thing I am waiting to see is what Allen looks like when defenses are blitzing him. He has learned to stay in the pocket and take what the defense gives him, which is a huge improvement even on last year's preseason. If he can do the same thing on blitzes he will look much much better this year.

http://www.nfl.com/player/ejmanuel/2539228/profile

 

sorry, I’m not trying to crush your optimism. I’m really not.  But we see this every year.  But I do hope this is finally the year where it translates to the regular season but I’ve been burned too many times. 

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

http://www.nfl.com/player/ejmanuel/2539228/profile

 

sorry, I’m not trying to crush your optimism. I’m really not.  But we see this every year.  But I do hope this is finally the year where it translates to the regular season but I’ve been burned too many times. 

 

I have no clue what the NFL.com player profile on EJ Manuel is supposed to tell me. Are you trying to show me his stats or something? I don't care about his rookie stats at all. Allen made at least 10 different plays last year that would have individually been the best plays of Manuel's career. This throw from last night:

 

 

is better than any throw that Manuel ever made. It is a real NFL QB throw. I'm not sure if you actually watched Manuel's career here or if you just stared at the gamelog in real time but he never looked comfortable. I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I have no clue what the NFL.com player profile on EJ Manuel is supposed to tell me. Are you trying to show me his stats or something? I don't care about his rookie stats at all. Allen made at least 10 different plays last year that would have individually been the best plays of Manuel's career. This throw from last night:

 

 

is better than any throw that Manuel ever made. It is a real NFL QB throw. I'm not sure if you actually watched Manuel's career here or if you just stared at the gamelog in real time but he never looked comfortable. I don't know what else to tell you.

 

It was supposed to link to the 3rd preseason against the Steelers where Manuel was throwing dimes.  I could do this for a million average to below average qbs.  Then the season starts, and it’s completely different.  

[Formerly Allan in MD]

It's about time Duke got some pre-season press.  He earned it and may be a very difficult cut.  He was obviously signed because he'd shown he can play.

[Patrick Duffy]

4 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

It's about time Duke got some pre-season press.  He earned it and may be a very difficult cut.  He was obviously signed because he'd shown he can play.

 

Rather have him in there than Zay. JMO

[MAGA-Man]

7 hours ago, bills6969 said:

I see a lot of Aaron Rodgers in him.  Quick release,  huge arm and accurate.  Just need the Oline to step up and keep Allen on his feet and we may, just may, have something special.

Wow, not sure I'd be comparing Allen to Rodgers and Brady like some of you are just yet.

[ILBillsfan]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

He's very calm out there. I think as things keep slowing down for him he'll continue to make better and better decisions.

 

Teams are going to start taking away Cole Beasley, so I hope the other WR's can step up and get separation and make catches.

Team have had a horrible timing stopping this as the Patriots due it every year, love seeing the Bills have this option in their game

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

This...this is so big.

 

 

@Alphadawg7

 

It has has taken me months, but I actually can see Alpha’s point and...man, there is a chance he could be right.

 

Ha, well thanks for not calling me crazy ? 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It was supposed to link to the 3rd preseason against the Steelers where Manuel was throwing dimes.  I could do this for a million average to below average qbs.  Then the season starts, and it’s completely different.  

 

The big thing is most of these guys can make the individual throws if they go early. EJ could certainly capable of winging a 20 yarder accurately at least on occasion 

 

the problem is can Allen make that throw 70-80% of the time throwing into a tighter window with more pressure or does he slide down to 50-60% because under pressure because his mechanics or decision making are effected. 

 

Tbd over the course of a season. But I like seeing them being worked on here with some success!

[Bing Bong]

7 hours ago, VW82 said:

I know it's early but I think the Cole Beasley signing is going to wind up being an overwhelming success. Every QB needs someone they can trust. Allen wanted that guy to be Zay but he just isn't. Beasley gets open AND makes tough catches which Allen forces you to do sometimes. Watching Allen last night I saw chemistry developing with his new go-to guy. 

Beasley's the kind of role reciever every team should have. Don't even think it's too early to say it, he's proven what he can do in this league and we absolutely needed WRs.

 

Brown's a good signing too. Even if we just need more bodies at WR at least we finally went for veterans (instead of being sold on 2.5 years of Panther Kelvin Benjamin)

 

Anyways it's hard to put the Rodgers label on any quarterback. He had seasons of winning 10 games with any group around him.. pretty much a one man show.

Edited August 17, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

the problem is can Allen make that throw 70-80% of the time throwing into a tighter window with more pressure or does he slide down to 50-60% because under pressure because his mechanics or decision making are effected. 

 

If Allen is accurate on 50% of his 20+ yard passes he'll be top 5 in the league at deep accuracy:

 

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-most-accurate-nfl-quarterbacks-by-pass-depth-in-2018

 

So no, he will not make that throw 70-80% of the time once he is facing real defenses.

 

And it isn't just about accuracy. It's his ability to anticipate the window and take advantage of the defense biting on the short throw. You honestly think Manuel was ever capable of that?

 

Manuel occasionally looked like he could be decent. Allen occasionally looks like he could be a Hall of Famer. There is no comparison between the two.

Edited August 17, 2019 by HappyDays

[billsbackto81]

7 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Bernie Kosar perfected that move! 

The only thing Bernie perfected was Happy Hour.

[formerlyofCtown]

Yes he was sleeping soundly, looked so peaceful.  Oh wait....?

[RobbRiddick]

I always considered myself a straight man, but then Joshua Allen came along and filled me

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

with such excitement that I started to doubt myself. Then I realised I just really like him as a player and it doesn't make me any less of a man. But I tell you what, if he carries on getting extremely hard

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

earned runs like last season and combines them with some long TDs, I think I may just come

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

round to the idea of creating my own Josh Allen fan club

[MAJBobby]

His Mechanics have greatly improved. Here is to hoping they don’t revert come real Bullets flying 

[Steptide]

As much as I love seeing the bills play well, I will contain my excitement for the regular season. I do think McDermott has done a great job with the team so far, but I need to see wins when it counts. 

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

His Mechanics have greatly improved. Here is to hoping they don’t revert come real Bullets flying 

 

If we keep up the protection and give him time, that should help A LOT! Last year’s line was the type of thing that could ruin a guy over 2-3 seasons. 

 

 

.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Augie

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

If we keep up the protection and give him time, that should help A LOT! Last year’s lone was the type of thing that could ruin a guy over 2-3 seasons. 

 

Yes but even in a clean pocket at times his Mechanics were atrocious last season. Now seeing proper ball placement touch on passes. His feet are smooth from base up looks completely different. 

 

His Processing time is faster as well. But I think that was always going to be expected once the game slowed down for him and started seeing things pre snap 

Edited August 17, 2019 by MAJBobby

[Bing Bong]

6 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I could more see one of the receivers getting traded, possibly even could become Zay if they are looking for a larger return.  We have a glut of WR at the 5th thru about 8th spots.  The other one could also become trade bait is Foster.  Not sure how much of a step up it is from say McKenzie/Ray-Ray to Foster.  May be Foster just needs too much motivation all the time to become worth keeping.

Step up is huge IMO. McKenzie's just the bare minimum you want at WR.. just looked good last year playing next to worse than the minimum. Foster is an actual weapon with a lot of versatility to boot.

 

I'd prefer we didn't trade a WR. Depth at the position is great, we don't know for sure who will get the majority of targets, and the group was so bad last year, I still want to see if it's going to be servicable with 2 FA's added..  and I don't really see any great trade value in these guys as of now anyway.

 

I want to see a true WR1 pan out.. so I'm all for throwing **** at the wall and seeing who sticks, and if it's not Foster, then I don't really see anyone else having the ceiling Foster looks like he has currently. I'd be really ticked if we traded him haha.

Edited August 17, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[Warcodered]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Yes but even in a clean pocket at times his Mechanics were atrocious last season. Now seeing proper ball placement touch on passes. His feet are smooth from base up looks completely different. 

 

His Processing time is faster as well. But I think that was always going to be expected once the game slowed down for him and started seeing things pre snap 

A full offseason working on being a QB without all the distractions of the draft and being a 1st round pick has really helped

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Warcodered said:

A full offseason working on being a QB without all the distractions of the draft and being a 1st round pick has really helped

 

Yeah and I think that is the exact reason most 2nd year QBs make a huge jump after year one. 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Yes but even in a clean pocket at times his Mechanics were atrocious last season. Now seeing proper ball placement touch on passes. His feet are smooth from base up looks completely different. 

 

His Processing time is faster as well. But I think that was always going to be expected once the game slowed down for him and started seeing things pre snap 

 

Yes, you expect growth from year to year. Last year, even with a decent pocket.........the play before and the play after he was under fire. Hard to judge a guy when he never knows when he’s going to get a fair chance to play it the right way.  Make improvements in mechanics AND reading the field....all while feeling safe back there.

 

I’m not making excuses, just hoping he can settle down and grow this year without all the duress. Give him a chance, and pray he puts it together with some help. (Beasley can be huge in his development, IMO. I’m re-watching now as replay was so late last night.)

 

Please Josh, make the Big Leap! 

[Ralonzo]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It was supposed to link to the 3rd preseason against the Steelers where Manuel was throwing dimes.  I could do this for a million average to below average qbs.  Then the season starts, and it’s completely different.  

I was at that game, Manuel looked phenomenal. Making all the throws, inside, outside, short, deep, dropping it in between levels, the whole smorgasbord.

 

You're scaring me.

 

At least Kouandjio not being able to block anyone wasn't an illusion.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Ralonzo

[transient]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Agree.  And I think the hero ball was just carryover from college, where he had no talent around him.  He didn't have much talent around him last year, either.  More talent this year; more options.  I loved his decisiveness and also loved that he only ran when the pocket crumbled.  He showed much better touch on the shorter passes and did not force the ball down the field.  It's clear that he's spent a lot of time correcting the mistakes (rookie mistakes) that he made last year.

 

Looks like we finally have a QB with a solid work ethic AND solid talent.  Should be exciting to watch for many years to come.

 

It’s also nice to see the team putting the right resources in place to develop a young QB instead of throwing their hands to the sky as they sacrificed another one to the meat grinder on the way to drafting his replacement.

[Bubba Gump]

The thing that stood out most to me last night, was Allen's touch on his passes. That 20 yard toss to Sweeney was a thing of beauty. Just lofted it up there perfectly. Never woulda happened last year. He has also seemed to take some of the zip off his short passes. Every pass to Beasley wasn't zipped in there so hard that he couldn't handle it. I think between his maturity and working with Rex has helped him immensely. This kid could be really special if he keeps this up. I'm sure he will have his games where the trolls will be out in force, but I love what I see. He is a very smart kid and is open minded enough to take in all the advice he is given. His brain is a sponge. That is something I'm not sure Darnold or Rosen have. We may have hit the motherlode. 

 

Oh wait, it's only pre-season. Never mind. 

[C.Biscuit97]

32 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

I was at that game, Manuel looked phenomenal. Making all the throws, inside, outside, short, deep, dropping it in between levels, the whole smorgasbord.

 

You're scaring me.

 

At least Kouandjio not being able to block anyone wasn't an illusion.

Thank you.  I’m not knocking Allen. I loved some of the throws he made.  It’s just that everything in preseason should be taken with major grains of salt,

[TPS]

7 hours ago, Agent 91 said:

 

I'm very interested in what Knox can do. Sweeney has some nice hands and adequate mobility after the catch. No one knows anything about Knox so I am ready to explore that. Could Sweeney lead to a Smith cut? I hope so 

Maybe they'll put Kroft on the PUP list, keeping Smith, Knox, and Sweeney?

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

If Allen is accurate on 50% of his 20+ yard passes he'll be top 5 in the league at deep accuracy:

 

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-most-accurate-nfl-quarterbacks-by-pass-depth-in-2018

 

So no, he will not make that throw 70-80% of the time once he is facing real defenses.

 

And it isn't just about accuracy. It's his ability to anticipate the window and take advantage of the defense biting on the short throw. You honestly think Manuel was ever capable of that?

 

Manuel occasionally looked like he could be decent. Allen occasionally looks like he could be a Hall of Famer. There is no comparison between the two.

 

I was neither truly comparing the two or using real numbers. I think you got caught in the trees and missed the forest with my last post

 

they can all make tough throws sometimes. Doing just a tiny bit better can be the difference between a bust and hof 

Edited August 18, 2019 by NoSaint

[Putin]

.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

EJ never looked that good against 1st stringers in preseason.

 

 

The first preseason game of the Marrone era was against the Colts and the Bills came out in no huddle with EJ the rookie and looked great.    This board was giddy as hell.   You guys are just too concussed from decades of losing.   Short term memories are gone.   Can only remember the 90's and earlier.

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, macaroni said:

My favorite J.A. stat from last night was 1 yard rushing. It looks to me like the coaching staff has told him in no uncertain terms to NOT run the ball, but to take the "safety valve" pass.

 

The reason it's my favorite stat is that Josh didn't get frazzled that a big part of his game has been taken away, he's taking those short throws and moving the chains. I do believe that once the season starts, Josh will start to occasionally take off and run when the situation dictates, but it won't be the major part of his game. IMHO last season Josh tried to play too much "hero ball" either trying to throw the bomb, or run the ball. It looks to me that THIS season he will concentrate on moving the chains and sprinkling a run or long pass here and there.

 

IMHO the coaching staff is FORCING Josh to become comfortable throwing the short stuff to the slot receiver and running backs, and last night seemed to show Josh is starting to take to the philosophy. 

 

He took two sacks because he stayed put.

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, transient said:

It’s also nice to see the team putting the right resources in place to develop a young QB instead of throwing their hands to the sky as they sacrificed another one to the meat grinder on the way to drafting his replacement.

 

I think you’d be hard pressed to come up with a worse situation than what we created for Allen last year.

 

id also say a WR group of Sammy, woods, Goodwin, and still taking swings at guys like harvin, and mike Williams wasn’t exactly throwing their hands up. Their was a stretch where we had invested multiple 1s, a 2, a 3 and some low round picks in addition to free agent targets (or guys like clay).

 

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The first preseason game of the Marrone era was against the Colts and the Bills came out in no huddle with EJ the rookie and looked great.    This board was giddy as hell.   You guys are just too concussed from decades of losing.   Short term memories are gone.   Can only remember the 90's and earlier.

 

Your ex can do no right and the new girl does no wrong when you are in the honeymoon phase. 

 

Who knows, this could be the one... but definitely some fans caught up in the lust for getting some new. 

Edited August 18, 2019 by NoSaint