"Slow down, it's only preseason"

[MILFHUNTER#518]

7 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You realize that new england is routinely one of the most penalized teams.

 

But you can probably go join the OP in making points that contradict facts.

You are not just a troll, you are a professional troll.  I like it. Def covered all your bases with the above. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

22 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

Don’t you think the Bills themselves realize what they have been up against these two games?

 

 

....audition is more important than competition during pre-season....90 to 53 is pretty drastic cut and not much time to evaluate...........

[ddaryl]

I'm happy

[MILFHUNTER#518]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

I have this recurring feeling that people didn't read the original post.

My basic point was that while schemes and scores don't matter, execution does, and the Bills have been executing well.

Our players have been lining up and beating the players lined up across from them. I don't care who those players lined up across from them are. Your job in football is to out-execute the player you're going against in individual matchups ("do your one eleventh"), and the Bills have been. Personnel and scheme don't matter to me. Execution does.

You are correct. The defense has gotten noticeably better, yes. But the discipline and lack of penalties has been my biggest takeaway on that side of the ball. On the offense, Allen has markedly improved on the short and intermediate passes  (thank you Cole Beasley ) and we need Mitch Morse.

[nucci]

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....audition is more important than competition during pre-season....90 to 53 is pretty drastic cut and not much time to evaluate...........

yes but they've had all but a few spots locked down before camp started.....barring injuries of course...you can easily cut 25-30 guys right now.

we look like a normal team. Play calls getting in on time...more organized...they look like they know what they're doing

[DCbillsfan]

7 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

Jacoby brissett and Kyle Allen are not much to get confident about. And I’m pretty concerned about Swain on the offensive line. I have zero doubts they’re building a good team, problem I see is I don’t think it’s as far along as some fans think, which is going to cause a lot of anger and drama later on this season if we’re not in the playoff hunt the whole season 

Spain seems to be the weak link of the starting 5 OL combos.  He holds a lot.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

yes but they've had all but a few spots locked down before camp started.....barring injuries of course...you can easily cut 25-30 guys right now.

we look like a normal team. Play calls getting in on time...more organized...they look like they know what they're doing

 

....WHICH......has been a long time coming...........

[MILFHUNTER#518]

23 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

Spain seems to be the weak link of the starting 5 OL combos.  He holds a lot.

O Line will be the reason we miss the playoffs if it does not improve

[Steptide]

I still don't think everyone should get too excited just yet. Dont forget how much Peterman tore up the panthers last pre season. 

 

I definitely think the bills are a much improved team no doubt, but let's see how things go next week. Beasley is gonna be invaluable for Allen this season 

[PlayoffsPlease]

We played and looked much better than the Luckless colts, and the Newton, Kuechley, Olsen, McCaffertyless Panthers.  

We would beat both of those teams configured that way quite easily in the regular season too. 

 

It is less clear that that translates to beating the Patriots and Jets.   I am a huge Josh Allen fan.  The passing game will be much better this year.  There are some concerns.  O-line is not looking to be anything above average.  Running game seems a bit weak against starters.  Defense seems about the same level as last year, which is ok, but not enough to get the team as a whole past 6-10.   

[Logic]

19 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I still don't think everyone should get too excited just yet. Dont forget how much Peterman tore up the panthers last pre season. 

 

I definitely think the bills are a much improved team no doubt, but let's see how things go next week. Beasley is gonna be invaluable for Allen this season 

And if the Lions play all their starters, and the Bills do too, and the Bills wind up playing better and continuing to look good overall....THEN are we allowed to be excited?

Better question: Can't we just be excited now? It's football. Our football team looks good. Once again, I'm not saying "Super Bowl champs!", I'm just saying this team looks completely prepared, is executing soundly, and I have hope that this sound execution and preparation can carry over into the regular season. The most optimistic thing I've said so far is that they might win 10 games.

I get it, some people like to guard themselves against disappointment after experiencing it so much over the past two decades. Not me. I choose optimism, because life is short and sports are fun.

[Rico]

I don’t really care if it’s pre-season or who didn’t play, I will never apologize for enjoying the Bills when they look good on the field.

[dubs]

The Bills definitely look better. We’re seeing a more effective offense, Allen looks like he’s getting better. The O-line seems improved. On defense, same excellent play as last year. Only thing that’s looked iffy has been K. 

 

That being said, it’s preseason, they’ve faced two short handed teams with no QB. 

 

Conclusion: Cautiously optimistic 

[Logic]

1 minute ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

We played and looked much better than the Luckless colts, and the Newton, Kuechley, Olsen, McCaffertyless Panthers.  
 

Is this really all anyone has? "The opponents were missing key players"?

What do Bills receivers beating their cornerbacks have to do with Luke Kuechly or Andrew Luck? What do the Bills front four whooping the o-linemen in front of them and controlling the line of scrimmage have to do with McCaffrey or Hilton?

If Bills players from various position groups (including groups who ARE playing all their key starters) are out-executing their opponents, it's a good thing. I don't care that the opposition didn't play. 

Recently this preseason, the Patriots absolutely WHOOPED the Lions. They beat them in all three phases THOROUGHLY, and won 31-3. And guess what: the Pats rested Tom Brady! How would you feel if the Bills had gotten thoroughly outplayed and beaten 31-3 by the Luckless Colts or the Newtonless Panthers? Dominating opponents who are missing key starters is a GOOD thing, and it's not a given.

[dubs]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

Is this really all anyone has? "The opponents were missing key players"?

What do Bills receivers beating their cornerbacks have to do with Luke Kuechly or Andrew Luck? What do the Bills front four whooping the o-linemen in front of them and controlling the line of scrimmage have to do with McCaffrey or Hilton?

If Bills players from various position groups (including groups who ARE playing all their key starters) are out-executing their opponents, it's a good thing. I don't care that the opposition didn't play. 

Recently this preseason, the Patriots absolutely WHOOPED the Lions. They beat them in all three phases THOROUGHLY, and won 31-3. And guess what: the Pats rested Tom Brady! How would you feel if the Bills had gotten thoroughly outplayed and beaten 31-3 by the Luckless Colts or the Newtonless Panthers? Dominating opponents who are missing key starters is a GOOD thing, and it's not a given.

 

Dude, you can be excited, others can be negative, and others can be in the middle. Everyone doesn’t have to have the exact same take. 

 

BOOM!  problem solved. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

Is this really all anyone has? "The opponents were missing key players"?

What do Bills receivers beating their cornerbacks have to do with Luke Kuechly or Andrew Luck? What do the Bills front four whooping the o-linemen in front of them and controlling the line of scrimmage have to do with McCaffrey or Hilton?

If Bills players from various position groups (including groups who ARE playing all their key starters) are out-executing their opponents, it's a good thing. I don't care that the opposition didn't play. 

Recently this preseason, the Patriots absolutely WHOOPED the Lions. They beat them in all three phases THOROUGHLY, and won 31-3. And guess what: the Pats rested Tom Brady! How would you feel if the Bills had gotten thoroughly outplayed and beaten 31-3 by the Luckless Colts or the Newtonless Panthers? Dominating opponents who are missing key starters is a GOOD thing, and it's not a given.

Don't be a jerk. Quote the whole post, and don't take things out of context . My only point is the pre-season results have no correlation to regular season results.  Everyone who follows the game and uses logic is aware of this. 

[Just Joshin']

The OP makes a good point and admins this is preseason so it does not count.

 

My question is why are there people who look for the negative in everything?  Enjoy what is occurring in preseason.

 

I am sure if it was going poorly they would be saying 2019 will be a disaster, not discounting because it is preseason.

[nucci]

58 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....WHICH......has been a long time coming...........

Yep!!

[Logic]

19 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

My only point is the pre-season results have no correlation to regular season results.  Everyone who follows the game and uses logic is aware of this. 

Well, I follow the game and use logic, and I disagree with the notion that pre-season results have no correlation to regular season results.

For the past infinity years, the Bills have looked awful and disjointed and undisciplined and disorganized in preseason, and guess what? They looked the same way come regular season! 

I agree that the SCORE and the SCHEMES don't correlate, but I DO think that knowing your assignment and executing it better than your opponent can execute his assignment DOES matter. The whole point of my original thread is that just because the final score doesn't matter and the schemes are vanilla, it doesn't mean that NOTHING can be drawn from the preseason games. I disagree with that notion. I think it's a myth. I think people tend to confuse final score not mattering and schemes not being indicative of regular season usage with the whole enchilada not mattering and not being able to show you anything. But it DOES show you something. That's why the games are played, and that's why coaches go into each preseason game with specific objectives.

Feel free to be more cautious than I and to not draw conclusions, but to say that I don't "follow the game or use logic" because I think execution matters in the preseason is unwarranted.

 

[Cripple Creek]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Well, OK then..

 

We aim to please.

Wow, an amenable moderator type person. You sir (or madam) are a gentleman!

[IDBillzFan]

9 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Well for starters, neither team has played their starting QB or RB. Indy didn't play TY Hilton. Carolina didn't play Kuechly on defense. You can't take anything away from the games.

 

Consider yourself enlightened. 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

Usually we have to make excuses on why we aren’t playing well in preseason...this is a nice change of pace.

[NoSaint]

9 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

Of course someone who would come up with the username logic would write that.

 

 

I'll just tell you what you want to hear, you're correct. This is clearly no thread for logic.

 

Yup. It’s more fun to be optimistic because they look sharp than defend looking sloppy... but it largely matters all the same. 

 

There will be a handful of things to watch for- whether fosters hands are glue, whether Allen is money on timing throws (and if that is everything from pre snap read through footwork to timing and placement)... but whether brown gets separation on a guy isn’t super meaningful unless you are analyzing his footwork, body language, cut, etc...as you don’t know who is playing 80% and who is playing 90% and having space against a guy you are out hustling isn’t particularly meaningful. Similar with holding a random block in an unschemed rush. Or better yet sometimes schemed to have a guy try out techniques he doesn’t excel at in the first place as results don’t matter.

 

peterman often looked good in meaningless reps for that reason. In the 4th quarter of a close meaningful game it’s a whole different beast though.

 

that all said enjoy and keep glasses half full. The team has some potential upside, and might achieve it.

Edited August 17, 2019 by NoSaint

[gonzo1105]

The offense has looked good, the defense hasn’t faced a starting QB yet. That’s what is holding me back on the extra excitement. So far so good def looking improved but I’m not all the way on the train yet to playoffville

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

It's almost like you didn't read my post at all.

I admitted that record and final outcome of games don't matter. 

I said that I look for sound execution, which the Bills have demonstrated.

I never said this preseason means that the Bills are winning the Super Bowl this year. 

I just said they've looked very good, out-executed their opponents, and have done so in a way that leads me to believe their performance will carry over into the regular season.

And if the point is "cool it, it's only preseason, we have to wait and see", well...I know that. It's the title of the thread.

?

What if the Bills HADN'T out-executed their opponents even though they're resting starters? That's happening all around the league this preseason. Sloppy performances by teams going against opponents who are resting key players.

You're SUPPOSED to dominate opponents who are resting starters, and the Bills have. 

And once again, THE BILLS were also missing key players. Are Alexander and Hyde not crucial to defensive success? Are Morse, Nsekhe, and Brown not going to play big parts on offense this year?

If all anyone has to refute my (admittedly cautious and tempered) enthusiasm is "but our opponents have been resting starters", well...did you read the original post? 

Back when I read "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn", I thoroughly enjoyed the adventure and mischief that Huck and his dog Yeller got into. Between floating down the river, Huck and Tom trying to unravel the mystery of Boo Radley and the like, the book caught my attention and held it.

 

It's true that when Yeller got the rabies and Huck's dad had to put him down, it was really sad.  At the same time, for me, it did not diminish the fun and interesting parts that went before.  

 

I think we can enjoy some of the positive and encouraging things we've seen this offseason. The mgmt did not stand pat after last season, they worked strategically to improve the team at Oline and receiver.  Some decisions will look good, some will likely not pan out.  I think you did a good job with your original post, you acknowledged the pre-seasonness of it all, and that neither team brought their full game plan and troops to the battle. Maybe things don't work out, but spotting the positives is not a bad thing at all. 

 

That's just the nature of preseason. 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

We played and looked much better than the Luckless colts, and the Newton, Kuechley, Olsen, McCaffertyless Panthers.  

We would beat both of those teams configured that way quite easily in the regular season too. 

 

It is less clear that that translates to beating the Patriots and Jets.   I am a huge Josh Allen fan.  The passing game will be much better this year.  There are some concerns.  O-line is not looking to be anything above average.  Running game seems a bit weak against starters.  Defense seems about the same level as last year, which is ok, but not enough to get the team as a whole past 6-10.   

 

This post is pretty slanted, tbh.  

 

You talk about playing teams minus all these players, yet we went up against one of the better DL’s in football last night without Morse or Nsehke.  That’s our starting RT and (hopefully) starting C.  John Brown didnt play.  Tyler Kroft will be back sometime in the beginning of the season.  Dawson Knox, same.   

 

It was basically Josh, with 3/5 of our line (Ford likely out of position so only Dawkins/Spain in their starting roles), no John Brown, TE’s #3/4 against their starting line, starting secondary and backup ILB’s. 

 

In terms of our defense. Valid criticism on opposing QBs.  Colts may have to endure a decent amount of Brissett at starter this year, but he’s obviously not Luck.   Kyle Allen was hilarious.  However, with our defense, I don’t think anyone is wondering if theyre good or not... more of a “how good are they?”    We can’t gather much, aside from the fact they are absurdly athletic all over the field, when measuring them up against muppet QBs. 

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by SCBills

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Beasley on track to be the greatest Bills free agent signing in two decades or more?

 

There has been a lot of talk about Allen's completion percentage after a 52% season last year. Bills have been working a lot of underneath stuff to Beasley and the RB's with great success. And Allen is still making some nice throws deeper down the field to Sweaney. If we see a significant increase in the underneath throws and Allen and Beasley continue to be on the same page in the regular season then Allen should easily jump up to 59%-60% completion or perhaps higher. I still do expect him to take a lot of deep shots down the field too but maybe not lead the league.

[Ralonzo]

"No! It's preseason! Nobody can take any good results from preseason and think they mean anything!"

 

"I zee. Tell me about the player who hurt you."

[Cheektowaga Chad]

The biggest thing for me is the bills playing speed, it's been on a different level than both of their opponents thus far.

 

I'm starting to believe its because the team is good rather than just playing harder than its opponents. 

 

It could be as much as this bills team is deep at a lot of positions especially on defense and that is creating competition thus faster harder playing

[DCbillsfan]

Just saw the panthers site cat scratch reader.  For a preseason game, they were rather upset about the game.  Go Bills!

[DJB]

So what you are saying OP is:

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by DJB

[SCBills]

29 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

The biggest thing for me is the bills playing speed, it's been on a different level than both of their opponents thus far.

 

I'm starting to believe its because the team is good rather than just playing harder than its opponents. 

 

It could be as much as this bills team is deep at a lot of positions especially on defense and that is creating competition thus faster harder playing

 

This.  

 

I mean even the break from our #14 in line DB when Will Grier almost got housed again was jarring.  

 

The speed on this team is evident.  The athleticism of the defense, against the Colts/Panthers starters was clear to see.   Even clearer when our 2’s went up against their 2’s. 

[Shaw66]

Thanks, logic.  I dId something similar last week, and it's more true this week.  

 

Execution is the key.  I see it mostly on defense.  Someone, usually more than one, is near the ball.  Tackling is good.  

 

On offense Allen finally had one of those preseason games that the best QBs have. Easy decisions, accurate throws, good drives, get off the field.

 

Encouraging. 

[Patrick Duffy]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks, logic.  I dId something similar last week, and it's more true this week.  

 

Execution is the key.  I see it mostly on defense.  Someone, usually more than one, is near the ball.  Tackling is good.  

 

On offense Allen finally had one of those preseason games that the best QBs have. Easy decisions, accurate throws, good drives, get off the field.

 

Encouraging. 

 

While I agree I will say I personally have noticed it mostly on offense. They have been executing rather well thus far. While I kinda figured the defense would be pretty decent anyway, it just looks to me the offense has taken a step in that department more noticeably than the defense.

[HappyDays]

11 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

Take a top 5 QB from the starting roster and the skill positions look a whole lot different.  Are you honestly comparing a LB, S, C, OT, and WR with someone like Andrew Luck or Cam Newton?  That somehow those positions have the value one of those QBs has to their team?  

 

I know you're looking for any excuse to show that 2019 is surely different, but we don't know yet.  It's okay to wait and see before declaring the team on the glide path to the playoffs.  

 

For the record, here's Buffalo's results from the last 5 pre-seasons:

 

2018 2-2 83 PF 88 PA (final season record 6-10)

2017 1-3 62 PF 67 PA (final record 9-7)

2016 1-3 55 PF 71 PA (final record 7-9)

2015 2-2 88 PF 71 PA (final record 8-8)

2014 1-4 63 PF 104 PA (final record 9-7)

 

First of all - what do those preseason records mean? Like what point are you trying to make there? We've only played 2 preseason games so far, so even if you're trying to make a convoluted point about preseason record this was a weird time to do it.

 

But no one cares about the final score anyways. If Tyree Jackson had come in and thrown 3 pick-sixes and lost the game for us, the reaction to the game wouldn't be any different. The thing that gets people excited is how prepared the starters and backups look in every aspect of the game. On defense the corners are glued to their receiver downfield. On short passes there are always 2 or 3 tacklers around the ball. On offense Allen is looking comfortable and we finally have a receiver that knows how to separate, hit his spot, adjust to the ball, and move upfield. It looks different than what I'm used to.

 

I don't care what QBs the Bills defense has faced in preseason. I already know the pass defense will be very good, I'm just waiting to find out how good. I think the run defense overall looks very improved and Edmunds is playing fast.

 

Yeah Kuechly was out for this game. Well, good news - he won't be be playing in any of our 16 regular season games either. I guess we won't know how good the offense is until we play the Panthers again in 2021. But by the same token we won't always be dealing with a defensive line that consists of Short, Poe, and McCoy.

Edited August 17, 2019 by HappyDays

[DuckyBoys]

Offense looks night and day from last years pre season   Depth is finally nfl quality  It s a long season and Bills finally have good backups at a lot of important positions to withstand the 16 games of attrition.  O line isn't top 10 but I wont think will be the turnstile it was last year  It was nice just to see screens run properly   This is a nfl team that can compete week in week out and not have to hope for a +3 turnover differential each week and 50 yard field goals to eke out a close win.  Call me a homer but so far the Bills improved the most of the afc east teams  Dolphins are a hot mess.  Jets I think may be a improved but I believe will start slow.  Brady is a year older and no Gronk

[Johnnycage46]

12 hours ago, Logic said:

This year, like many years in the past two decades, there are a lot of Bills fans saying "Slow down, it's only preseason. It doesn't mean anything yet".

There's one key difference, though: Most years, we're saying it because the Bills look sloppy, disjointed, and ineffective. We're saying it to calm our anxieties and talk ourselves off the ledge, because the Bills look like a 5-win football team. This year? Well...this year we're saying it because the Bills look better than their opponents on both offense and defense. In the past, we've been trying to talk ourselves into more than 5 wins. "It's only preseason, they'll figure it out". This year, we're trying to talk ourselves out of a breakout, 10-win type season. "It's only preseason, it's all vanilla schemes, it doesn't matter".

See, here's the thing about that constantly uttered preseason phrase "it's only preseason, it doesn't matter": If we're talking about the SCOREBOARD, that's true. If we're talking about EXECUTION, it's a filthy lie. Sure, the opposing defense is running vanilla plays out of a limited playbook. All the more reason you want your offense to easily be able to march it down field against them. Sure, the opposing offense is trying not to tip their hand and is calling a limited script of plays. All the more reason you want your defense to easily shut them down and keep points off the board.

Score and schemes may not matter in preseason, but EXECUTION MATTERS. If your offensive linemen hold their blocks, it matters. If your receivers beat the men across from them, get open, and catch the ball, it matters. If your defense plays as a unit, shoots gaps, and keeps the score low, it matters. All things being equal, you have to look SOME SORT OF WAY in preseason, right? So wouldn't you rather that your team dominate the opponent? Put a different way: How would you all feel right now if Allen and the Bills stunk up the joint the past few weeks? Well, you'd still be saying "It's only preseason", but you'd be saying it for a very different reason. 

Look, we all know: it is a good idea to temper expectations in the preseason for the aforementioned reasons. Nevertheless: the Bills are executing their assignments more effectively than their opponents, their rookie quarterback looks vastly improved, and their defense looks absolutely stifling. When I flash back to all of the preseason ineffectiveness of recent years, I notice that it almost always carried over into the regular season. If you can't execute against vanilla schemes, you DAMN sure can't execute when the lights come on for real. So maybe, just maybe, the Bills preseason effectiveness this year will carry into the regular season. Maybe they'll keep out-executing opponents. The score and schemes may not matter, but execution matters.

Two more weeks and then we all get to see the Bills in real, important NFL regular season action. Until then, I'll keep trying to remind myself: "Slow down, it's only preseason".

 

This is a perfect write-up to express what I have been thinking.  Thank you for your eloquent articulation.

[wiskibreth]

Team play looks good; not a cluster of complete muppets.  I find that encouraging no matter who the opponent.

[Jay_Fixit]

Preseason.

 

 

 

Lol

[BullBuchanan]

The performance thus far is encouraging, but it's something we've seen many times before. The monkey on the back of this team throughout their history is how they handle adversity. From our 4 SB's, to the Music City Miracle, to the Willie Parker coming out show, the Monday Night Meltdown, 5-2 to 6-10, etc. The pre-season by design caters to the opposite of that.

I want to know if McDermott has developed better football instincts for adjusting gameplans at half time, when to challenge, punt vs go, etc.

Can Allen be the first guy in 25+ years that we can expect to win us the game with a minute left at his own 20?

Do we have the heart on this defensive group to steal games away in the final moments?

Will anyone on this team stand up and become one of the most feared at their position?

I don't think you can answer any of those things in pre-season and I think it's the biggest thing that separates teams that regularly run deep into the season and those that finish 6-10 to 9-7.

Unrelated: Christian Wade has to make this team right?