The more I look at this...we could end up keeping McCoy and clay!

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, cba fan said:

You can't mentor if you play like *****.

Then why is Derek Anderson on the team?

[cba fan]

1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

Are you sure.

Doesnt the saying go "those who can, Do, those who cant Teach....."

not in a player coach situation.

 

Players need to lead by example on the field. If you can no longer play well then transition to coach and mentor that way. That would be the old teacher ruse you state.

 

How do I critic a RB when me as the starting RB can not be even avg.?

Edited January 14, 2019 by cba fan

[ProcessAccepted]

1 hour ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

How many "mentors" can we have?  All the mentoring is not easily translated to W's.  Mentoring is a job for coaches, not players.

Disagree. Look at how much Allen improved with Anderson and Barkley. Mentoring is a role that requires coaches and players.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

Yes to McCoy. No to Clay.

Ditto

[cba fan]

13 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Then why is Derek Anderson on the team?

He should not be. Bills never scored TD with him on field. He should be QB coach if anything and Bills should get a 3rd QB that could actually play if they think they need a third. No guarantee Anderson makes the final 53 next year either.

 

With his head HX he could be concussed by end of preseason and spend the year on IR acting as a QB coach. Win Win.

Edited January 14, 2019 by cba fan

[formerlyofCtown]

Pretty sure Beane said Shady isnt going anywhere.

45 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

Money is always an issue even with a lot of cap space. It would be totally wasted on Clay. McCoy could be of some value to the team next year as long as he can accept the fact that he is not the number one running back anymore. His best use would be as a role player, probably a third down back.The team needs to get a number one running back one way or another in the off-season. 

 

And, this “mentoring” thing is way over blown. There is no reason whatsoever to think that Clay or McCoy would be willing to do this. Or,  even be good at it! This is what position coaches are for.

Who said he isnt the #1 RB.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I wouldn't bring clay back.  He had some pretty god awful production.  Low catch rate, probably a couple drops, and isn't so good of a blocker.   4.5 mil in savings can be spent on his replacement and we'd probably have an upgrade.

 

I don't think Shady will play to his contract, but he's still a solid contributor.  He can still block better than 90% of running backs, he can still catch, and he's still tough to take down 1x1 in space.  I think his days as a between the tackles 20 carry guy are over.  We need an upgrade at the between the tackles runner over what i think we have on the roster.

6 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Pretty sure Beane said Shady isnt going anywhere.

Who said he isnt the #1 RB.

 

This too - i wouldn't get rid of shady without him losing his job in training camp.

 

I can safely say that croom has pretty much passed clay on the depth chart at this point.

[BillsfaninChicago]

Shady can mentor the young guys what to do if they get disrespected by an off duty police officer who drinks your bottle service champagne at a bar.

[TheBeane]

2 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

 

Now first off.  I'm for cutting both of them due to lack of production and high costs.  But as I thought about it...a few points came to mind.  

 

1.  We are soooo young as a team. We had first and second year players playing more snaps than anyone in the league and we have 10 draft picks to get even younger.  With kyle retiring we have very little vet leadership left and McCoy is one of them.  

 

2.  Are we really going to be able to spend 90M in cap space?  Let alone 100 if we cut these guys?  There aren't that many big free agents we can get at positions of need to eat up that much space.   So why cut 2 vets to save space when we can have them play out their next year and then take them off books when we need more space. 

 

3.  Supporting cast was terrible so having allen with another year under his belt and a better oline might make these guys better. 

 

4.  Chance we could get something for them mid year.  So we aren't cap strapped so keep them and see what happens.  A few teams needed backs this year and clay could fetch something for a team in need next year.  

 

5.  They could restructure and have less of a cap impact.  

 

6.  Mentors for draft picks.  These guys could groom their replacements for a year since we will likely draft both a TE and RB. 

 

I'm all for cutting dead weight but the lack of vets on a very young team that will be drafting someone in these positions might make it compelling to keep them especially since money isnt an issue this year.  

 

Thoughts?

I'm all for this as long as:

 

#1 both of them come to camp healthy and ready to play.  Both still have some value, more McCoy than Clay, but both can still play.

#2 Bills FO doesn't go into the season as McCoy the #1 RB and Clay #1 TE w/o a viable alternative option at both positions.

 

I think both of those guys can still produce in the right situation.

[cage]

I'm good with letting Shady play out his deal and split time with a young back who can take over after next year.  Regarding Clay I'd much rather have Croom, plus give Thomas 1 more year to develop with a rookie draft pick.  I still think Thomas has the ability to grow more.  In addition I really liked that fake punt pass he did during the season.  I would have him in that position on every punt.

[PlayoffsPlease]

I am happy to invite both to camp and have them compete for jobs. I will be disappointed if Beane can't find a better RB1 and a better starting TE.  Can't imagine paying McCoy that much to be an RB2. If the money is a cap hit and guaranteed, then i guess I keep McCoy.  

[Mark80]

No reason to cut McCoy.  No reason to keep Clay.  Clay has actually LOST us games.  He hurts the team more than helps it.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Mark80

[Ittakestime]

Both better be gone.  Production sucks even if they were making under a million.  We need more production, end of story.

 

 

[JaBu]

Such a typical emotional fan reaction, cut this player, fire this person. You build a team by fielding the best players you can. If you can find a better running back or tight end, hallelujah! But you don’t cut a player just for the sake of cutting them. 

 

Further, I think people here are confusing mentoring with leadership. Leadership is Shady going to Robert Foster and telling him he needed to step up and put in the effort to succeed, and how to be a pro. He wasn’t mentoring him on how to play wr. 

[formerlyofCtown]

44 minutes ago, TheBeane said:

I'm all for this as long as:

 

#1 both of them come to camp healthy and ready to play.  Both still have some value, more McCoy than Clay, but both can still play.

#2 Bills FO doesn't go into the season as McCoy the #1 RB and Clay #1 TE w/o a viable alternative option at both positions.

 

I think both of those guys can still produce in the right situation.

I really think Clay will do well elsewhere.  I think a change will do him good.  It had tobe disheartening to be open enough times to have 80+ catches 1000+ yards and 8+ TDs and have Tyrod Taylor as your QB.

[1st&ten]

McCoy should be good for 1 more season, he doesn't have to be the #1 back-----stop running him up the gut so much---move him around a lot & tons of passes out of the backfield to get him in space. Even use him as a slot receiver now & then.

[Big Turk]

Why do you assume they plan on spending all their cap space? Some of it will roll over into the next year.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Why do you assume they plan on spending all their cap space? Some of it will roll over into the next year.

 

..FA spending has to meet the "89% Rule" under current CBA........

Spending requirements

There is a minimum amount of money that a team can put towards their caps. All 32 teams are required to spend at least 89 percent of their caps (which projected for year 2019 is $187-$191 mil). This is called the minimum cash spend requirement, also known as the 89 percent rule.

[NewEra]

If we can substantially improve our OL, I’d like to see shady in a Bills uniform one last aeason.  He’ll perform without Castillo and with upgraded talent along the OL.  If we could get a 3rd-5th rd pick for him, I’d pull the trigger for the draft pick and draft Josh Jacobs or one of the around 7 RBs that I’d like to see us draft.  

 

I just wouldn’t want to cut him, unless we somehow fail to upgrade the OL

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

If we can substantially improve our OL, I’d like to see shady in a Bills uniform one last aeason.  He’ll perform without Castillo and with upgraded talent along the OL.  If we could get a 3rd-5th rd pick for him, I’d pull the trigger for the draft pick and draft Josh Jacobs or one of the around 7 RBs that I’d like to see us draft.  

 

I just wouldn’t want to cut him, unless we somehow fail to upgrade the OL

 

...do you realistically see that happening?...a GM would surrender a pick for a 30 yr old RB and a $6 mil salary........AD is 3 years older, signed a 1 year deal with Deadskins for vet minimum ($1.015 mil) and produced 1,042 yds rushing.........

[Kwai San]

3 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

4.5 in dead cap money...why not keep him as your #2?

This makes the most sense.....altho I honestly can not remember the last time he caught a pass!!!  Can you ??

[Laughing Coffin]

Clay was a healthy scratch a few games late in the year, no way are we keeping a player that they weren't even suiting up at the end of the year healthy when we can save 4 mil + cutting him

[LSHMEAB]

Clay had over 500 yards receiving 3 straight season prior to 2018. What happened? I would have no problem keeping him around as depth, but not Shady. Loved McCoy, but when it's over for a RB, it happens quickly. It's over. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Clay have a solid season elsewhere if we cut him loose. Shady, not so much.

 

 

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...do you realistically see that happening?...a GM would surrender a pick for a 30 yr old RB and a $6 mil salary........AD is 3 years older, signed a 1 year deal with Deadskins for vet minimum ($1.015 mil) and produced 1,042 yds rushing.........

If the offer was there take it.  Ifs not, roll with him.  I’m a firm believer that he has regressed some, but still has the ability to be a very effective rb/pass catcher if we can get some decent blocking.  I expect that to happen.  

[Mr. WEO]

Clay should have been gone in the same breath as KB.

 

McCoy...as a mentor??

 

You know who didn't need no stinkin mentor?  Saquon Barkley, Nick Chubb, Sony Michel, Philip Lindsay, Kerryon Johnson......no one had to tell these young bucks to run hard.

 

Clear the deadwood. 

[fansince88]

4 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

 

Now first off.  I'm for cutting both of them due to lack of production and high costs.  But as I thought about it...a few points came to mind.  

 

1.  We are soooo young as a team. We had first and second year players playing more snaps than anyone in the league and we have 10 draft picks to get even younger.  With kyle retiring we have very little vet leadership left and McCoy is one of them.  

 

2.  Are we really going to be able to spend 90M in cap space?  Let alone 100 if we cut these guys?  There aren't that many big free agents we can get at positions of need to eat up that much space.   So why cut 2 vets to save space when we can have them play out their next year and then take them off books when we need more space. 

 

3.  Supporting cast was terrible so having allen with another year under his belt and a better oline might make these guys better. 

 

4.  Chance we could get something for them mid year.  So we aren't cap strapped so keep them and see what happens.  A few teams needed backs this year and clay could fetch something for a team in need next year.  

 

5.  They could restructure and have less of a cap impact.  

 

6.  Mentors for draft picks.  These guys could groom their replacements for a year since we will likely draft both a TE and RB. 

 

I'm all for cutting dead weight but the lack of vets on a very young team that will be drafting someone in these positions might make it compelling to keep them especially since money isnt an issue this year.  

 

Thoughts?

We are not spending 90 mil in cap space. 

1 hour ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

I am happy to invite both to camp and have them compete for jobs. I will be disappointed if Beane can't find a better RB1 and a better starting TE.  Can't imagine paying McCoy that much to be an RB2. If the money is a cap hit and guaranteed, then i guess I keep McCoy.  

This^

[Mojo44]

3 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Pretty sure Beane said Shady isnt going anywhere.

Who said he isnt the #1 RB.

 Me. I don’t think he can do that. It has to be, at least, running back by committee. He can no longer handle that job by himself in my opinion even with a functional O line

[without a drought]

4 hours ago, HuSeYiN_NYC said:

Situation is kind of like this:

 

McCoy = Bud Light

 

Clay = Mead

 

DILLY DILLY

Cut them both?

[Hebert19]

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Why do you assume they plan on spending all their cap space? Some of it will roll over into the next year.

My point is they are never going to spend it all so cutting everyone to get more isnt worth it necessarily.  

 

And ps.  I am not saying I want this.  I've been saying cut shady for months. 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

I'm inclined to agree with the cut Clay and keep Shady crowd.  I'm not sure that the activity during free agency will shape the decision on either player.  The FO probably has already made their decision on both and we won't know until they pull the trigger.  People seem to be obsessed with the idea that some team will want to trade for McCoy.  I can't think of any recent trades where teams acquired a 31 year old running back coming off the worst season of his career.  It seems highly improbable to me.

[Mat68]

I think both should be gone.  If McCoy isnt willing to restructure/take less money I move on.  Clay is a slow body catcher with unreliable hands and a bum knee.  Te and Rb are positions in desperate need of young talent on the team.  

[formerlyofCtown]

1 hour ago, Mojo44 said:

 Me. I don’t think he can do that. It has to be, at least, running back by committee. He can no longer handle that job by himself in my opinion even with a functional O line

Well, in that case 1 Bills Drive had better obey or you will take to the internet and complain.

12 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

I think both should be gone.  If McCoy isnt willing to restructure/take less money I move on.  Clay is a slow body catcher with unreliable hands and a bum knee.  Te and Rb are positions in desperate need of young talent on the team.  

McCoy has already earned that contract in my opinion.

13 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

I think both should be gone.  If McCoy isnt willing to restructure/take less money I move on.  Clay is a slow body catcher with unreliable hands and a bum knee.  Te and Rb are positions in desperate need of young talent on the team.  

I think its hard to evaluate a RB behind one of the wurst Olines in the NFL.

 I could be wrong though.?

[Mat68]

3 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Well, in that case 1 Bills Drive had better obey or you will take to the internet and complain.

McCoy has already earned that contract in my opinion.

I think its hard to evaluate a RB behind one of the wurst Olines in the NFL.

 I could be wrong though.?

Meh, I dont look at it as earned.  Its cost vs production.  Is he producing as a top 10 rb? Does he have the potential to be one again? No and a big maybe because he led us to the playoffs?  His first step, and burst was noticeably missing all year.  

[formerlyofCtown]

7 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Meh, I dont look at it as earned.  Its cost vs production.  Is he producing as a top 10 rb? Does he have the potential to be one again? No and a big maybe because he led us to the playoffs?  His first step, and burst was noticeably missing all year.  

He was top 5 a year ago.  He had one of the fastest TD runs at 20 MPH.  What part of our line sucks do you not understand.  There isnt a RB in the league that could have got 1000 behind that line.

I dont necessarily disagree that we need a complimentary back that will be our future primary,  but as we know from the years of getting slaughtered by the E/P offense there isnt much difference between the primary and the role players.

Edited January 15, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[Punching Bag]

6 hours ago, HuSeYiN_NYC said:

Situation is kind of like this:

 

McCoy = Bud Light

 

Clay = Mead

 

DILLY DILLY

 

Clay can make Stromboli and organize parking of cars?

6 hours ago, nucci said:

Clay is gone...he was a healthy scratch one game....McCoy may stay unless we draft a better RB

 

I do not think he was healthy all year.

[Mat68]

1 minute ago, formerlyofCtown said:

He was top 5 a year ago.  He had one of the fastest TD runs at 20 MPH.  What part of our line sucks do you not understand.  There isnt a RB in the league that could have got 1000 behind that line.

I hear ya.  I dont think he will be a top 10 Rb in 2019.  He is paid as one. 

[formerlyofCtown]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

I hear ya.  I dont think he will be a top 10 Rb in 2019.  He is paid as one. 

Why not?

[freddyjj]

4 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

..FA spending has to meet the "89% Rule" under current CBA........

Spending requirements

There is a minimum amount of money that a team can put towards their caps. All 32 teams are required to spend at least 89 percent of their caps (which projected for year 2019 is $187-$191 mil). This is called the minimum cash spend requirement, also known as the 89 percent rule.

As mentioned in my previous response the 89% rule is over 4 years.  Teams must spend 89% of total $ over 4 years, not every year per CBA. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

I’m done with Clay and will question McDermotts ability to assess offensive talent even more if he brings no play Clay back. 

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I’m done with Clay and will question McDermotts ability to assess offensive talent even more if he brings no play Clay back. 

 

 

Nate Peterman starting week 1 wasn't enough for you?