jkeerie Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Bad Things said: Is it just me or does TBD have a lot of Trolls all of a sudden? (People really can't be this stupid, can they?) People will surprise you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlgarsh Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Did he meet her as she got off the school bus? Hes just out of college. Did he go to Louisville? If so I'd guess they met there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, jlgarsh said: Hes just out of college. Did he go to Louisville? If so I'd guess they met there... That's not how Travis Henry did it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: Punters and Kickers are some of the least valuable and easiest to replace positions in the NFL (unless you happen to have one of the handful of elite guys at those positions). There are only 32 spots in the NFL for each position, and there are a lot more than 32 guys that can do a serviceable job kicking the ball. Teams will routinely cut a punter/kicker after a few bad games (or even one). Bojorquez had a disaster of a game and very nearly cost us a win. There's no reason to keep him on the roster. Go pick up a Colton Schmidt or equivalent off the UFA scrapheap. HE'S A ROOKIE! Guess which punter ranks 9th in inside the 20 percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Luckily there's usually more brains than bile on TSW, but there's always bile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said: HE'S A ROOKIE! Guess which punter ranks 9th in inside the 20 percentage. How is that relevant? The Browns+Vikings cut their rookie kickers after 1 game. You don't need to be patient with a kicker/punter when you don't need to invest draft capital and there are so many serviceable ones not on rosters at any given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Cut him and get the best punter in the NFL via trade... Super Bowl ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheRockpile Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: I would argue that having a superior punt coverage unit could compensate for having poor hang time. Does the hang time account for the fact that 48% of Bojorquez's punts are inside the 20? Do you not think that when kicking to place the ball inside the 20 that hang time might be a bit lower than a punt from you own 20? Bojorquez is 9th in percentage of punts inside the 20 (he is less than 0.2% off the 6th best for percentage of punts inside the 20). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: How is that relevant? The Browns+Vikings cut their rookie kickers after 1 game. You don't need to be patient with a kicker/punter when you don't need to invest draft capital and there are so many serviceable ones not on rosters at any given time. Well in this particular case, maybe not a major factor (just tired of fans not giving the rookies a chance to get better). But if it's so easy to find someone better from the UFA scrap heap, why haven't the several teams with statistically worse punters (currently) made the move already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Did he meet her as she got off the school bus? Massage Parlor........getting a Happy Ending......after yesterdays Happy Ending Edited October 9, 2018 by JMF2006 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, RememberTheRockpile said: Does the hang time account for the fact that 48% of Bojorquez's punts are inside the 20? Do you not think that when kicking to place the ball inside the 20 that hang time might be a bit lower than a punt from you own 20? Bojorquez is 9th in percentage of punts inside the 20 (he is less than 0.2% off the 6th best for percentage of punts inside the 20). The number of punts he has inside the 20 is largely due to the number of failed offensive drives the Bills have had. He has had 7 punts from the opponents side of the field, and one at exactly midfield. Every one of those SHOULD be inside the 20, or even inside the 10. Many NFL punters can do that. We should go grab one that doesn't turn the ball over every other game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: The number of punts he has inside the 20 is largely due to the number of failed offensive drives the Bills have had. He has had 7 punts from the opponents side of the field, and one at exactly midfield. Every one of those SHOULD be inside the 20, or even inside the 10. Many NFL punters can do that. We should go grab one that doesn't turn the ball over every other game... First of all, where are you getting your info? Second, how does the number of punts in opponent's territory compare to other punters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I think he should just get some training time with with a QB guru to work on his technique, should this ever come up again. Going for the triple axle in competition is only a problem if you’ve never done it before. I’d fire Crossman for not preparing his holder for this impromptu 4th down conversion attempt. Or....for his record of incompetence over recent years, but certainly one of the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said: First of all, where are you getting your info? Second, how does the number of punts in opponent's territory compare to other punters? I did my own analysis of each play by play listed in the box score (I was bored at work...) Not sure how it compares to other punters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheRockpile Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: The number of punts he has inside the 20 is largely due to the number of failed offensive drives the Bills have had. You failed to answer the questions and failed to address I was using percentage. 1. Does the hang time account for the fact that 48% of Bojorquez's punts are inside the 20? Note: It is the percentage of punts inside the 20. For example Kevin Huber (Cin) has 16 punts, 8 of which were inside the 20 or 50% of his punts were inside the 20. 2. Do you not think that when kicking to place the ball inside the 20 that hang time might be a bit lower than a punt from you own 20? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: It bothered me when the announcers said Bojorquez has the most punts inside the 20 and is doing a great job yesterday. My personal opinion is that he has been pretty bad so far this season. Bojorquez is a little below average in terms of yards on punts (18th) and is perfectly average on net yards per punt (16th). After week 5 he has the 2nd most punts inside the 20. How could a punter with stats like that be bad? Simply put: hang-time, turnovers, and the Bills dreadful offense. He is dead last in hang time. That speaks for itself. A 48 yard punt with no hang time that gets returned 50 yards is not a good punt. We've given up 2 huge punt returns due to a lack of hang time that's resulted in FG's each time (Ravens and Titans game) He's also directly responsible for 2 turnovers. The fumble against the Ravens in week 1 in the rain has been mostly forgotten (the game was laughable by that point anyway). The "fake" FG yesterday is the dumbest thing I've seen a punter do in quite some time. He pulls up to throw the ball and quickly realizes that he's the only guy on the Bills that thought the call was for a fake and puts the ball back down to try and have Hauschka kick it (who cannot kick at this point as his timing is screwed). How does Bojorquez realize it's not a fake in <1 second and react that quickly to put the ball back down? I think he just completely panicked on that play. Lastly, the Bills dreadful offense. It's really easy to have a lot of punt yards when your offense is 31st in yards for (much longer field to work with). He has the 31 punt attempts (2nd most) in the league including 7 from the opponent's side of midfield. A punt from the opponents 47 yd line that goes out of bounds at the 19 is not a good punt, even it counts as an inside the 20. Found this little gem in a PFF article grading special team units through week 4: SPECIAL TEAMS RANK: 18 Special teams was a big reason they played above their metrics last year, and their regression there hasn’t helped much this season. New punter Corey Bojorquez has the lowest grade at his position group so far, accompanied by the lowest average hang time. Well then good thing your just another nobody behind their computer and not in an NFL front office where your opinion means nothing 9 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: I did my own analysis of each play by play listed in the box score (I was bored at work...) Not sure how it compares to other punters. Well then, if you completed your own analysis, guess thats all thats needed Beane better fire up the printer and get the pink slip ready for him.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, RememberTheRockpile said: You failed to answer the questions and failed to address I was using percentage. 1. Does the hang time account for the fact that 48% of Bojorquez's punts are inside the 20? Note: It is the percentage of punts inside the 20. For example Kevin Huber (Cin) has 16 punts, 8 of which were inside the 20 or 50% of his punts were inside the 20. 2. Do you not think that when kicking to place the ball inside the 20 that hang time might be a bit lower than a punt from you own 20? 1) No it does not 2) There could be a correlation there. Given the only data point I have is that Bojorquez is last in hang time and 9th in inside 20 % the anecdotal evidence would point to a weak correlation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 hours ago, vorpma said: Where do they come from; my god this is F****** stupid! I think Pro Football Focus is as bad for football as the new roughing the QB rules...I !@#$ing hate that site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheRockpile Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 41 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: 1) No it does not 2) There could be a correlation there. Given the only data point I have is that Bojorquez is last in hang time and 9th in inside 20 % the anecdotal evidence would point to a weak correlation. 1. So hang time doesn't account for the fact that a kicking to place the ball inside the 20 (which is usually a shorter punt) would have less hang time by necessity. Seems to me that punters that are at the top of list for placing the ball inside the 20 are unfairly penalized by the generic hang time stat. 2. "The anecdotal evidence would point to a weak correlation"? Based on one data point. I don't think so. Is that all you have, the hang time for Bojorquez? If that is it then the hang time is a big nothing burger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 He's no better than schmidt. His punts lack distance and hang time. He leads the league in punts inside the 20 because he probably has the most opportunities. That said, I don't really care about cutting him. All of special team units outside of Hauschka have looked awful, ill prepared, poorly coached. On top of that, the team appears to be a dumpster fire outside of the d. And even 3 weeks ago I would have said the defense looks garbage, but they've looked really good the last 3 weeks. The team is bad, who cares about a punter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, jkeerie said: People will surprise you. Sadly, I've been coming to this board for about 20 years now. I don't ever remember this kinda stuff after a win. Is it because of the new members from that other board that closed down? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: I did my own analysis of each play by play listed in the box score (I was bored at work...) Not sure how it compares to other punters. Well to be fair to Mr. Bojorquez, he should have more data to directly compare to others at the position. Essentially, what you did was nitpick a couple stats to help support your idea. You criticized a punt from the opponent's 47 downed at the 19 in your OP...was that actually one of his punts this year, or was it just a random example of the point you were making? There's a lot data and variables that can be dissected in this very instance, before truly gaining a real "answer" to your argument, and tbh I don't feel like taking the time to go through all 31 of his punts to see where the LOS was and where each of those punts were downed. But I did run numbers on PFR (pic below) and noticed that most of his punts have come from a poor position on the field, at least based on averages. For all Bills punts this year, the average LOS was around the opponent's 34 yard line. To qualify as being inside the 20, 47 yards is the target punt average, roughly 2 yards more than Bojorquez's yards per punt avg of 45.2. For all punters, the difference between the most YPP and least YPP is exactly 10 yards (50.7-40.7; the bottom 2 in the league are both rookies, BTW). The Bills could do a lot worse here. 13 teams are doing worse here, and 23 are doing worse in inside 20 %. But even still, numbers don't lie, but they don't always tell the whole truth either... To truly judge a punter, in a way that IMO is best, you would have to go through and document all punts from all punters that occur beyond their own 40 yard line (mid-field area), and document where exactly inside the 20 the ball is downed for each of those punts. There was a decent write up about 10 years ago that breaks it down: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/indexc344.html?p=709. Unless, of course, you have a kicker with an absolute booming leg that can get inside the 20 at a high percentage while kicking from "deep" in your own territory. Those guys don't come around very often (Roby?). I guess what I'm saying is, Bojorquez may not be great, but he's at least good in one measure so far. Many punters are much worse. It seems you may have put more emphasis on his 2 blunders (which didn't cost the Bills wins BTW), and those plays convinced you to look deeper for stats that would point to him as being expendable and easily replaced. But without context, and without comparable numbers, those numbers could be flawed. He's a rookie. Rookies make mistakes. The botched punt was under wet conditions. I'm not writing them off, but I'm also not willing to write him off just yet, especially when there are numbers out there that are somewhat more indicative of his play. Edited October 9, 2018 by Drunken Pygmy Goat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 4 hours ago, JXCOL3 said: We should cut everybody and start over. Get it done Beane Do it every few weeks. It's how you build a winner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheRockpile Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: He's no better than schmidt. His punts lack distance and hang time. He leads the league in punts inside the 20 because he probably has the most opportunities. Only second. Cleveland's punter Britton Colquitt has 39 to Corey Bojorquez 31 which is why I used percentage of punts rather then total. Colquitt, btw, put 43% of his punts inside the 20. Seattle's Michael Dickson has 29 punts which 34% were placed inside the 20. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoRic Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Beginning to understand why that other board got shut down. Hot takes, trolling and crusades. I guess this is the new normal. Pity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiserplayer Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 The way this thread has developed makes zero sense. We could all place 56.2% of our punts inside the 20 if we were punting from the opponents 45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthomas Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just what this place needed, another punter thread. I see someone already said this is stupid so i'll sit this one out haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 How far through the 53 man roster have we gotten for cut threads? Can we make it through all 53 before the end of the season? That would surely be an accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 6 hours ago, Bad Things said: Is it just me or does TBD have a lot of Trolls all of a sudden? (People really can't be this stupid, can they?) Yes and yes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 hours ago, MJS said: How far through the 53 man roster have we gotten for cut threads? Can we make it through all 53 before the end of the season? That would surely be an accomplishment. The defense is pretty safe but I don't know who's even left on the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 56 minutes ago, Warcodered said: The defense is pretty safe but I don't know who's even left on the offense. Come now. Plenty have called for the heads of Edmunds, Star, Murphy, and all CB's beside White and Johnson. Our defense would be pretty slim as well. And we also wouldn't have any coaches or a GM ... or an owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 8 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: It bothered me when the announcers said Bojorquez has the most punts inside the 20 and is doing a great job yesterday. My personal opinion is that he has been pretty bad so far this season. Bojorquez is a little below average in terms of yards on punts (18th) and is perfectly average on net yards per punt (16th). After week 5 he has the 2nd most punts inside the 20. How could a punter with stats like that be bad? Simply put: hang-time, turnovers, and the Bills dreadful offense. He is dead last in hang time. That speaks for itself. A 48 yard punt with no hang time that gets returned 50 yards is not a good punt. We've given up 2 huge punt returns due to a lack of hang time that's resulted in FG's each time (Ravens and Titans game) He's also directly responsible for 2 turnovers. The fumble against the Ravens in week 1 in the rain has been mostly forgotten (the game was laughable by that point anyway). The "fake" FG yesterday is the dumbest thing I've seen a punter do in quite some time. He pulls up to throw the ball and quickly realizes that he's the only guy on the Bills that thought the call was for a fake and puts the ball back down to try and have Hauschka kick it (who cannot kick at this point as his timing is screwed). How does Bojorquez realize it's not a fake in <1 second and react that quickly to put the ball back down? I think he just completely panicked on that play. Lastly, the Bills dreadful offense. It's really easy to have a lot of punt yards when your offense is 31st in yards for (much longer field to work with). He has the 31 punt attempts (2nd most) in the league including 7 from the opponent's side of midfield. A punt from the opponents 47 yd line that goes out of bounds at the 19 is not a good punt, even it counts as an inside the 20. Found this little gem in a PFF article grading special team units through week 4: SPECIAL TEAMS RANK: 18 Special teams was a big reason they played above their metrics last year, and their regression there hasn’t helped much this season. New punter Corey Bojorquez has the lowest grade at his position group so far, accompanied by the lowest average hang time. Correct. 100% right. I have not been impressed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) I have no problem with him as he seems like an average punter and maybe a slight upgrade over Schmidt. The reason I liked the move is the spin on the ball is different off left footed punters making it harder to catch. Something tells me we have bigger fish to fry than a freaking punter. Edited October 9, 2018 by Doc Brown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Process Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, gobills1212 said: Fer shizzle??? I for one refuse to fall for this troll job!! What defines falling for a troll job? Reading the post then quoting or replying? Or is it taking the post seriously and entering a debate Hook line and sinker? 8 hours ago, gobills1212 said: Edited October 9, 2018 by The Process Doubled for some reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 9 hours ago, Clyde Smith said: ...And replace him with who? ....Paul McGuire............. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 9 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: I like that everyone has ignored my (and PFF's) analysis. People are blinded by the inside the 20 stat and ignoring the fact that our punter is the worst punter in the league and almost cost us a game. I would think that having the most punts downed inside the 20 could negatively affect hang time stat as those are generally shorter punts. The inside the 20 stat is important. I am not saying he is great, but you can see the leg strngth. Some more experience and he could be pretty good. Besides, of all the problems that this team has, punter is not in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Is anyone else tired of the 'over expectations/quick judgement on our rookies'? They are building a team. When you build you will bring in green players. Green players will bake green mistakes. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 He's a rookie. And Schmidt was one of the worst punters in the league. Sub 40 net average. Watch his punts against Seattle on MNF, legit cost us the game. It is possible for players to improve over time. Kid never got to punt in preseason and is still figuring out his coverage team here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 10 hours ago, Augie said: The punter is a silly overreaction. Crossman? That’s another story! How is he still there? Castillo is paid to take the heat off of Crossman? I'm with you. Crossman is like a cockroach. Just keeps on getting jobs even though he puts out below average quality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 The OP should be cut. Crazy thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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