McDermott not pleased with WRs in practice

[BuffAlone]

3 hours ago, nucci said:

Maybe the GM should have acquired better receivers

True. But the most basic of talents that any professional WR must have is to be able to catch the damn ball

[nucci]

7 minutes ago, BuffAlone said:

True. But the most basic of talents that any professional WR must have is to be able to catch the damn ball

right...which is why they should have acquired receivers that can do this

Edited September 27, 2018 by nucci

[BuffAlone]

Just now, nucci said:

right...which is why they should acquired receivers that can do this

My point is every WR in the NFL should have at least that basic ability. To catch the ball

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Young team a little complacent after an upset win. Loved seeing this from McDermott.

[BuffaloHokie13]

12 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m just not excusing them. As an example they could have picked Ju-Ju instead of Zay. That would have been a good decision. The free agent receivers that they paid in 2017 were Andre Holmes, Anquan Boldin, Philly Brown, Rod Streater, Jeremy Butler and Brandon Tate. They get the blame for that. Not one of those guys can play. They also trade for Mathews and Benjamin while trading up for Zay. That was the group that they decided was good enough after trading Watkins and letting Woods and Goodwin walk. They don’t get a pass for that or get to hide behind “the process.” That can’t be judged as anything but a massive failure. 

 

I actually liked Brandon Tate and I'd take him in a heartbeat as both a WR and a Returner on this squad.

[nucci]

1 minute ago, BuffAlone said:

My point is every WR in the NFL should have at least that basic ability. To catch the ball

I'm not arguing your point. I'm saying maybe they shouldn't be in the NFL if they can't catch the ball...that's why players get released....because they can't play well enough

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I actually liked Brandon Tate and I'd take him in a heartbeat as both a WR and a Returner on this squad.

I tend to agree. He’s back on the Saints though. I liked Deonte Thompson too as a role guy.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[BringBackFergy]

51 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Another disingenuous Bills cheerleader making excuses for McDermott's poor decisions with personnel.   You can pretend this is about scrubs who aren't on the current roster but you -- and every other knowledgeable Bills fan -- knows  this is a reference to the three top class WRs the Bills didn't re-sign or traded away in 2017: Goodwin, Watkins, and Woods and were replaced with the slow, stone-handed bunch the Bills scraped up from among the NFL's worst scrubs.

 

Since you seem to have "forgotten" that these WRs were Bills pre-McDermott, I'll remind you that last season, the three WRs the Bills got rid of all blossomed with their new teams: Marquise Goodwin caught 56 passes (53% of targets) for 962 yards and 2 TDs; Watkins caught 39 passes (56% of targets) for 593 yards and 8 TDs;  Robert Woods caught 56 passes (66% of targets) for 781 yards and 5 TDs.  This season they've all continued to shine.  In fact on Sunday, Goodwin, Watkins, and Woods had 4 TDs among them. 

 

 

 

Once again, you want the whole enchilada but you don't have enough money in your pocket to pay for the whole enchilada. See above discussion re. keeping Watkins and Woods on the contracts they wanted and our cap situation. Beane's mantra has been to build through the draft (rookies on 4 and 5 year contracts), acquire free agents to fill in the rest. The acquisition of free agents hinges on the amount of cash in your pocket. Next year we can buy 7 or 8 whole enchiladas. Your argument boils down to "I want my franchise QB, I want D line free agents like Murphy and Star, I want a young middle LB, I want a fast WR and a strong WR, I want Shady, I want this, I want that..."  You'll get the fast and strong WR. But you have to wait a bit for it. In the interim, you play with the guys you have.

[billsredneck1]

2 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Once again, you want the whole enchilada but you don't have enough money in your pocket to pay for the whole enchilada. See above discussion re. keeping Watkins and Woods on the contracts they wanted and our cap situation. Beane's mantra has been to build through the draft (rookies on 4 and 5 year contracts), acquire free agents to fill in the rest. The acquisition of free agents hinges on the amount of cash in your pocket. Next year we can buy 7 or 8 whole enchiladas. Your argument boils down to "I want my franchise QB, I want D line free agents like Murphy and Star, I want a young middle LB, I want a fast WR and a strong WR, I want Shady, I want this, I want that..."  You'll get the fast and strong WR. But you have to wait a bit for it. In the interim, you play with the guys you have.

not to mention , you have to stagger rookie contracts so they're not all due the same year. it's the only way to keep a core together.  it's also likely to be an even more exciting off season than last year. process....

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I tend to agree. He’s back on the Saints though. I liked Deonte Thompson too as a role guy.

I also think the Kerley decision I disagree with was cutting him. By my observation, he was the best WR in a Bills uniform in week 1. I just don't understand it. We've talked about roster things a bunch, there's plenty of past posts showing moves we advocated for. I definitely don't see your points here as hindsight. At this point I legitimately feel like if we cut all 6 and signed 6 FAs it might be an upgrade. Tate was an FA until yesterday, so he was part of that thought, but with guys like Inman, Janis, Maclin, Wheaton, Britt, Wright, and even Bryant out there this squad feels weird. Then factor in guys like Tanner Gentry or Cam Phillips who are PS guys. I don't know. I just feel like this FO has no eye for offense.

[YoloinOhio]

15 hours ago, Lurker said:

Meh.    That looked like McD's normal approach, except he didn't clap.    Are we supposed to think that makes him 'fired up?'...

I don’t think the f-bombs that reportedly could be heard across the field are McDermott’s normal approach 

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Is McD Catholic?  I didn't know.  Knew he's professed Christian

I don't know. Just my poor attempt at a joke. 

[Codyny13]

Richard Matthews look?

[Fan in Chicago]

11 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I W Then factor in guys like Tanner Gentry or Cam Phillips who are PS guys. I don't know. I just feel like this FO has no eye for offense.

 

I just don't understand their obstinate stand regarding this position. When it is entirely obvious that the group is terrible, there haven't been any recent attempts to address the issue. Cant we at least cycle a few of these to see if anyone can fill a role ala Donald Jones ?

[Kirby Jackson]

27 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I also think the Kerley decision I disagree with was cutting him. By my observation, he was the best WR in a Bills uniform in week 1. I just don't understand it. We've talked about roster things a bunch, there's plenty of past posts showing moves we advocated for. I definitely don't see your points here as hindsight. At this point I legitimately feel like if we cut all 6 and signed 6 FAs it might be an upgrade. Tate was an FA until yesterday, so he was part of that thought, but with guys like Inman, Janis, Maclin, Wheaton, Britt, Wright, and even Bryant out there this squad feels weird. Then factor in guys like Tanner Gentry or Cam Phillips who are PS guys. I don't know. I just feel like this FO has no eye for offense.

That’s kind of what I am getting at. This isn’t like, “they haven’t had a chance to invest yet.” They used more than a 2nd on Zay and a 3rd on Benjamin. They were planning on them being core members of this receiver group moving forward at the time they acquired them. The same can probably be said for Jordan Mathews. Not one of those guys is going to be a key part of your receiver room. They may be in the room but as guys not focal points. This regime just kind of butchered the position and now need to hit the reset button.

[mrags]

16 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That video is hardly getting into players for stuff. I expected grabbing Allen by the facemask or something more than this. This probably happens every few plays in practice. It’s jist most of the time the lying media isn’t there to video tape it. 

[Punching Bag]

15 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

“Gutted” is such a graphic term...I prefer “culled”. 

 

Where the the hell are Brandon Reilly and Tanner Gentry???!!!! I hear they are amazing!!!!

 

Neither of them knew how Brian Daboll liked his coffee (with a shot of whiskey) in it but Robert Foster does so he got the job.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Fan in Chicago said:

I just don't understand their obstinate stand regarding this position. When it is entirely obvious that the group is terrible, there haven't been any recent attempts to address the issue. Cant we at least cycle a few of these to see if anyone can fill a role ala Donald Jones ?

 

I got nothin'.  It's one of my areas of concern about McBeane and company. 

It seems they honestly felt that Boldin +  Zay Jones + Matthews would be an upgrade on Watkins + Woods + Goodwin, which is stunningly wrong. 

Then this off-season they felt that Benjamin + Zay Jones + Holmes + Foster would be adequate and that Coleman was worth a $3.5M shot to see if he could turn his career around in 1 month - which really makes me question their judgement and the quality of their pro personnel scouting.

 

The only thing I can think is that they're trying to change one piece at a time on offense, trying to improve the line but leave the WR as is (though certainly on D they're making simultaneous moves at DL and DB).   

 

There may be some sense in that. 

 

To my amateur eyes, I see open WR almost every play, the challenge is giving Allen enough time to go through his progressions and find them.

The Vikes game, the catch % for the throws that were made to WR/TE is a not unreasonable 64.7%, the problem is there were only 17 of them - all game.

So it may be that the WR aren't as bad as we believe, the challenge is Allen having time to find them, set, and throw. 

 

9 minutes ago, mrags said:

That video is hardly getting into players for stuff. I expected grabbing Allen by the facemask or something more than this. This probably happens every few plays in practice. It’s jist most of the time the lying media isn’t there to video tape it. 

 

What I saw in that video was Rayray McCloud clowning around and McDermott chewing his a** for it.

 

I expect you're correct that the media, lying or not, isn't around for it usually.   

[BringBackFergy]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I got nothin'.  It's one of my areas of concern about McBeane and company. 

It seems they honestly felt that Boldin +  Zay Jones + Matthews would be an upgrade on Watkins + Woods + Goodwin, which is stunningly wrong. 

Then this off-season they felt that Benjamin + Zay Jones + Holmes + Foster would be adequate and that Coleman was worth a $3.5M shot to see if he could turn his career around in 1 month - which really makes me question their judgement and the quality of their pro personnel scouting.  Woods, Watkins and Goodwin would have cost us more money than we had. Beane-ology dictates that you get some draft picks or unload salary to acquire younger players and re-visit the WR position when the cornerstones (QB, Defensive secondary and line, and MLB are set)

 

The only thing I can think is that they're trying to change one piece at a time on offense, trying to improve the line but leave the WR as is (though certainly on D they're making simultaneous moves at DL and DB).   THIS

 

There may be some sense in that. 

 

To my amateur eyes, I see open WR almost every play, the challenge is giving Allen enough time to go through his progressions and find them.

The Vikes game, the catch % for the throws that were made to WR/TE is a not unreasonable 64.7%, the problem is there were only 17 of them - all game.

So it may be that the WR aren't as bad as we believe, the challenge is Allen having time to find them, set, and throw. 

 

 

What I saw in that video was Rayray McCloud clowning around and McDermott chewing his a** for it.

 

I expect you're correct that the media, lying or not, isn't around for it usually.   

 

[YoloinOhio]

12 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Neither of them knew how Brian Daboll liked his coffee (with a shot of whiskey) in it but Robert Foster does so he got the job.

More like whiskey with a shot of coffee 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, BringBackFergy said:

Woods, Watkins and Goodwin would have cost us more money than we had. Beane-ology dictates that you get some draft picks or unload salary to acquire younger players and re-visit the WR position when the cornerstones (QB, Defensive secondary and line, and MLB are set)

 

I think that's incorrect that they would have cost us more money than we had.  Watkins could have been kept through last year at a moderate rookie salary.  Goodwin and Woods both signed modest deals with SF and LA in 2017.  We've blown more money at the position on Coleman, AJM, and Benjamin not to mention Kerley etc. than we saved.

 

I don't think you can get away from the fact that poor WR talent evaluation is involved here, but YMMV

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BuffAlone said:

My point is every WR in the NFL should have at least that basic ability. To catch the ball

 

Most do. We signed some ones that can't. 

[Billzgobowlin]

17 hours ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

Somebody get Dez Bryant’s agent on the phone

Why cause we don't have enough receivers that can't catch a ball?

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, billsredneck1 said:

not to mention , you have to stagger rookie contracts so they're not all due the same year. it's the only way to keep a core together.  it's also likely to be an even more exciting off season than last year. process....

Good thing they staggered Zay’s contract so we can cut him next year.

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s kind of what I am getting at. This isn’t like, “they haven’t had a chance to invest yet.” They used more than a 2nd on Zay and a 3rd on Benjamin. They were planning on them being core members of this receiver group moving forward at the time they acquired them. The same can probably be said for Jordan Mathews. Not one of those guys is going to be a key part of your receiver room. They may be in the room but as guys not focal points. This regime just kind of butchered the position and now need to hit the reset button.

Correct. This is not a “we haven’t invested at WR” problem. It’s a “our investments failed at WR” problem. 

 

We’ve traded a third for Benjamin and took his fifth year option which we declined on Watkins. It would have been $4M more to just keep Sammy for the same amount of time. Is there any doubt Sammy is better than KB right now?

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that's incorrect that they would have cost us more money than we had.  Watkins could have been kept through last year at a moderate rookie salary.  Goodwin and Woods both signed modest deals with SF and LA in 2017.  We've blown more money at the position on Coleman, AJM, and Benjamin not to mention Kerley etc. than we saved.

 

I don't think you can get away from the fact that poor WR talent evaluation is involved here, but YMMV

Some parts poor and some parts desperate.  

[Pete]

Draft Anthony Johnson.  My crusade continues

[Jauronimo]

18 hours ago, PolishPrince said:

People need to stop posting this. Dez's agent has already said he is only interested in a superbowl contender. The Bills and their now 30th in the power ranking is not this....

I am as pumped and feeling hopeful as the next guy after this last win, but one win after two blow outs with a rookie QB is not going to suddenly make a guy like Dez go "all they need is me for Super Bowl"

I'm only interested in super models that are PhD candidates.  Turns out I may be over estimating my own market value.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Jauronimo

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Once again, you want the whole enchilada but you don't have enough money in your pocket to pay for the whole enchilada. See above discussion re. keeping Watkins and Woods on the contracts they wanted and our cap situation. Beane's mantra has been to build through the draft (rookies on 4 and 5 year contracts), acquire free agents to fill in the rest. The acquisition of free agents hinges on the amount of cash in your pocket. Next year we can buy 7 or 8 whole enchiladas. Your argument boils down to "I want my franchise QB, I want D line free agents like Murphy and Star, I want a young middle LB, I want a fast WR and a strong WR, I want Shady, I want this, I want that..."  You'll get the fast and strong WR. But you have to wait a bit for it. In the interim, you play with the guys you have.

 

The Bills have been claiming that they can't "afford" to keep the best players they developed because of "the salary cap" for the last 20 years while numerous other teams have repeatedly managed to do just that.  Some teams have built and maintained dynasties during that period.  Others have built juggernauts  loaded with expensive players that have produced multiple successful playoff seasons.  Most other NFL teams have at least had a few seasons where they won more than 9 games.  The Bills haven't done that yet in the 21st century ... and even with new ownership, new coaching, new FO organization, they are still trotting out the same lame excuses which their fans faithfully repeat to defend the same old manure wrapped in new paper.

 

No, the Bills couldn't afford to keep Goodwin, Woods, and Watkins, but they certainly could have afforded to keep one ... and their WR corps would be 100%, maybe 1000%, better than the excrement they've got out there now -- and if they didn't waste so much cap space on players Beane brought in and then shuffled out, they would have more $$ to invest in better players. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I'm only interested in super models that are PHd candidates.  Turns out I may be over estimating my own market value.

 

I guess you could turn down all dates that don't fit your criteria and stay home if that's what you prefer.

Same with Dez

 

This whole "superbowl contender" thing  just makes me laugh though.  Did someone pre-season predict more than 25% of Eagles-Viks/Jaguars-Pats as the final 4?  Every year a couple of teams contend, who were not felt to be in it before the season, and a couple of teams that were seen as strong contenders for one or another reason fall flat.

[RyanC883]

19 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So to be clear, these guys gutted the receiver room and replaced them with the worst receivers in the league. Now they are mad that these guys suck? Whose fault is that?

 

who did they "gut" that would have made a difference besides R. Woods?  K. Benjamin plays like he's 3 inches shorter than he is.  D. Thompson played "bigger" than him.  Well, they should have kept D. Thompson.  

4 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Once again, you want the whole enchilada but you don't have enough money in your pocket to pay for the whole enchilada. See above discussion re. keeping Watkins and Woods on the contracts they wanted and our cap situation. Beane's mantra has been to build through the draft (rookies on 4 and 5 year contracts), acquire free agents to fill in the rest. The acquisition of free agents hinges on the amount of cash in your pocket. Next year we can buy 7 or 8 whole enchiladas. Your argument boils down to "I want my franchise QB, I want D line free agents like Murphy and Star, I want a young middle LB, I want a fast WR and a strong WR, I want Shady, I want this, I want that..."  You'll get the fast and strong WR. But you have to wait a bit for it. In the interim, you play with the guys you have.

 

agree with this.  And they made moves like K. Benjamin that looked like winners at the time.  So did J. Matthews, who even the Pats*** scooped up.  Neither one has panned out.  

 

Someone should remind Benjamin it's a contract year for him.   

 

 

[quinnearlysghost88]

15 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

 

Actually that's the difference between a playoff team and average Joe's 

 

 

Millennial argument? As if an entire generation can be summed up by a single comment. God the over generalization is annoying. Let me help you out: 

 

We live at home, have no motivation, swimming in debt, zero accountability, super entitled, blah blah blah. 

 

Not to take it out on you but it I hate hearing the stereotype.

You have to admit the ties are making the numbers a little wonky. Let's say they split in another scenario. you're talking bottom five 7-8 and top five 8-7. It's one game of consequence thus far. I'd be super curious to see what these numbers are like at week 8.  

Edited September 27, 2018 by quinnearlysghost88

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

20 hours ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

Somebody get Dez Bryant’s agent on the phone

 

To see if he reps of any other WRs that are actually still good? 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

That's what's called getting chewed out nowadays? My dad is a Vietnam vet and I can tell you when I did something wrong I was at attention and scared shitless. I didn't see him yell or single out anyone, he just walked over said a few words then clapped.

I would be happy if we just released every WR that we have and did a fresh start in 2019.

[Seanbillsfan2206]

24 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

To see if he reps of any other WRs that are actually still good? 

Good one

[zow2]

McD seems to be ramping up the urgency, at least visibly, in games and in practice.    That's good to see.   No reason this club should be blown out with the defense they have here.  Just need max effort on every down.   And the O needs to contribute in the first half much like they did last week....

[Captain Hindsight]

20 hours ago, billspro said:

 

How does an NFL team have a 9.4% drop rate? That is crazy.

Nate Peterman has a 10% INT rate. 

 

Drops dont sound so bad now do they?

[PolishPrince]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

The Bills have been claiming that they can't "afford" to keep the best players they developed because of "the salary cap" for the last 20 years while numerous other teams have repeatedly managed to do just that.  Some teams have built and maintained dynasties during that period.  Others have built juggernauts  loaded with expensive players that have produced multiple successful playoff seasons.  Most other NFL teams have at least had a few seasons where they won more than 9 games.  The Bills haven't done that yet in the 21st century ... and even with new ownership, new coaching, new FO organization, they are still trotting out the same lame excuses which their fans faithfully repeat to defend the same old manure wrapped in new paper.

 

No, the Bills couldn't afford to keep Goodwin, Woods, and Watkins, but they certainly could have afforded to keep one ... and their WR corps would be 100%, maybe 1000%, better than the excrement they've got out there now -- and if they didn't waste so much cap space on players Beane brought in and then shuffled out, they would have more $$ to invest in better players. 

If they are free agents the player also needs to WANT to resign. If you were a WR with Tyrod as your qb, would you really be wanting to resign there without being grossly overpaid?

[NoHuddleKelly12]

21 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Love the intensity McD brought, just in case anyone was thinking of laying around on their laurels from the Minnie game—if anything, this week facing a grumpy GB squad with a 1st ballot HOFer almost makes this an even tougher road game, and the boys will have to dig deeper to find the kind of internal wrecking ball that was the Bills last week. Huge win last week, but to really give the national media and naysayers on this board some what for, they need to pull off another upset. Won’t do that by losing focus in practice. And as others have posted in more detail, our WR’s individually are poor at best, so the effort needs to be rock solid...

 

 

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

20 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So to be clear, these guys gutted the receiver room and replaced them with the worst receivers in the league. Now they are mad that these guys suck? Whose fault is that?

but ... but .... they tell me I must TRUST.  THE.  PROCESS.

 

[Seasons1992]

20 hours ago, vincec said:

This doesn't even consider the fact that they struggle to get separation, which is another problem.

 

THAT is certainly a salient point.