The OL Is Not The Problem

[Figster]

1 minute ago, Jerome007 said:

I'm begging Daboll to put both Ivory and Shady at the same time for a good chunk of the plays! Keep the defenses guessing. And pound Ivory down the middle in the first half while using Shady in the flat and as a receiver. Save most of his runs down the middle for the 2nd half.

 

With the many TE and solid RB stable, he should copy some of the formations of the Bears. Get creative dammit!

I like the way you think Jerome007

[MJS]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

So Allen when gets blown up I'll remember it's not the o-line.

 

You do realize that every QB in the league gets sacked, right? Sometimes brutally.

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

Josh Allen held on to the ball an average of 3.6 seconds before release.

 

That is not going to cut it in the NFL.

 

Tell that to Tyrod.

[Figster]

11 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

You do realize that every QB in the league gets sacked, right? Sometimes brutally.

 Sometimes brutally can cost you a QB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

"The OL is not the problem"

 

Right..

 

How many of the current starters will be on the team next year?

 

1

 

I was always told that if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem...

Edited September 19, 2018 by Aussie Joe

[N.Y. Orangeman]

I love Joe B's work...save this.  However, this attempt to characterize his review of the All-22 as an analytical model fails badly.  First, he starts with play counts and letter grades, the latter of which being wildly subjective and in his case, having no basis other than as having covered the Bills as a reporter (i.e., no football experience).  Next, he averages them applying weight to each game.  You could go one forever, but at least PFF has some objective standards and defensible models.  Joe has nothing but a desire to appear analytical.  

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

 Sometimes brutally can cost you a QB.

 

 

Yep. That's why starting QB's get injured every year, including some of the great ones like Rodgers.

 

It does not matter if you have all pro bowl caliber linemen. It's going to happen occasionally.

[GreggTX]

We need to upgrade this OL at OT, C and 1 G position. Period.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

He said PFF

 

 

I don't know how those guys do their ratings , but they constantly way off all the time. When they first came out in was like this is great now we will be able to see who is really good or not, but when you see their rankings it's so wrong that even a casual can knows it's off.

 

 

[GreggTX]

4 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

I read Joe B's piece at WKBW.  

 

I give him credit for acknowledging the flaws in Allen's game.  This board seems to think he's a franchise QB in the making and just needs a bit more time.

 

In reality, he is a long-odds project that is likely not to pan out.  Expectations right now for him are zero b/c he's so green, so the flaws in his game get a pass.  But at some point he'll have to do better.

 

I thought his best plays came from his legs, not his arm, and that's not good.

 

 

I REALLY hope you're wrong and I know you do too, but he missed BADLY on a lot of throws -- even several completions were pulled in by great catches on bad throws. He's lucky he didn't throw more picks. That simply must change a lot for the better or he will be watching the NFL on TV like the rest of us sooner rather than later. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. He still has a lot to prove.

[Putin]

6 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

 

I didn't say they suck...they just need some seasoning. I think they're both going to be very good....maybe even this year. 

Wow that’s great I guess in the next year draft OL ✅  and I thought OL was a huge need and will have to use our 1st and even 2nd round picks , 

should wait and see how  PFF ranks our WR’s  next ?  

Maybe we go all defense in the next years  draft ? 

 

 

 

[JerseyBills]

7 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

What’s more alarming to me is the lack of a run game. Granted we have been basically blown out the first 6 quarters of the season. 

But if they can’t run the ball it’s going to be a really ugly season. Allen carrying the whole team and trying to do everything himself is gonna be a disaster for the team, and for his development 

The only silver lining about the first 2 games is we have yet to see our full offense. Daboll has been forced to scrap his playbook by the 2nd quarter because he's down 2-3 scores. 

The little we have seen of the run game looks very encouraging , Ivory looks surprisingly explosive.

 

As long as this D gets their heads out of their butts , we'll see a much more complete offense and Allen on full display. 

 

When your defense gives up 4 consecutive TDs in your first start , and the defense knows you're forced to go pass heavy , that's about as tough as it gets for him. 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Who was supposed to pick up Derwin then ? Edmunds or Allen ?

 

Allen and Groy are responsible for identifying the blitzer and changing the protection as called. That sack was absolutely on "protection" but not on an individual member of the offensive line getting flat out beat. They had the wrong protection called for the defense LA were running failed to identify it and adjust. That play was doomed before the snap. 

 

There was another play later in the game where the Chargers ran a similar DB blitz and Allen did seem to identify it, intentionally leave the protection as called knowing he would have Shady (or might have been Murphy) in the flat on a hot with no defender to account for him and then for some reason hesitated on the throw and the pressure got home. He has to improve in the short game and the quick hitters. That is the staple of modern NFL offense. You can't survive just playing 'bombs away' now. 

 

Identifying pressures and adjusting protections is the biggest was in which this team is missing Eric Wood. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by GunnerBill

[Fadingpain]

8 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

In no real order...but here is what I hold to be contributors to the Bills' issues.

 

 

1.Play designs or playcalls.

 

2.Offensive line...decent to good minus Groy.

 

3.No clear No. 1 WR.

 

4.Star Lotulelei/lack of pass rush and pass rush depth.

 

5.Cornerback opposite side of White.

 

6.Tremaine Edmunds' inexperience.

 

7.Lack of defensive creativity.

 

8. Okay special teams play.

 

9. Zero identity.

 

10.Seemingly conceding to the idea of not making the playoffs this season.

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously?  Our number one problem is bad play calling?

 

And "zero identity" is in the top 10?  What the hell does that even mean?  And how would that translate to winning on Sundays? 

 

You know what the most important factor is?  It didn't crack your Top 10!  

 

The quarterback.

We don't have one.

 

 

 

[Ned Kelly]

37 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Seriously?  Our number one problem is bad play calling?

 

And "zero identity" is in the top 10?  What the hell does that even mean?  And how would that translate to winning on Sundays? 

 

You know what the most important factor is?  It didn't crack your Top 10!  

 

The quarterback.

We don't have one.

 

 

 

??

Edited September 19, 2018 by Ned Kelly

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, Ned Kelly said:

??

 

He is right. At the moment we don't have a good enough Quarterback. I mean it is far from the only issue - the defense the first game and a half would have had Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers struggling to keep up - but we don't have a Quarterback good enough to win us games yet.  That isn't unexpected when you are starting a rookie though, especially one who was widely acknowledged (even by the analysts who liked him) to be a relatively raw prospect coming out. 

 

It isn't "freak out we don't have a Quarterback" it is "we don't have a Quarterback right now, let's enjoy the process of seeing if Josh Allen can develop into the guy."

[billsredneck1]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

SMH.

 

You know, I'll kinda go with what I see over PFF's OL and QB e v a l (off for all-22)

I like Joe B but historically his grades don't always make sense to me

 

 

 

Well, FWIW I think he looks better than Humber myself but what do I know?  Joe B seems to think that McDermott is trying to "send a message" to Milano, what message and why not clarified

how about.....he's giving milano a rest?

[vincec]

10 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

So Allen when gets blown up I'll remember it's not the o-line.

Apparently, it's up to Allen to pick up the free blitzers. As if he didn't have enough on his plate as a rookie. Nice offensive system.

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Allen and Groy are responsible for identifying the blitzer and changing the protection as called. That sack was absolutely on "protection" but not on an individual member of the offensive line getting flat out beat. They had the wrong protection called for the defense LA were running failed to identify it and adjust. That play was doomed before the snap. 

 

There was another play later in the game where the Chargers ran a similar DB blitz and Allen did seem to identify it, intentionally leave the protection as called knowing he would have Shady (or might have been Murphy) in the flat on a hot with no defender to account for him and then for some reason hesitated on the throw and the pressure got home. He has to improve in the short game and the quick hitters. That is the staple of modern NFL offense. You can't survive just playing 'bombs away' now. 

 

Identifying pressures and adjusting protections is the biggest was in which this team is missing Eric Wood. 

I was making a small joke.

 But like always you nailed it. Groys lack of experience has shown two games in row. are can this be somewhat assigned to Coaching ?
Surely Castillo should have expected those blitz packages and practiced some of that ?
 Mills turned his guy in to seal the first blitz and WR/TE looked like he saw it. coming. was not sure to chip or run his route. He was uncovered at the line and hesitated.

Might be a bigger problem than just the line ... 

[Tenhigh]

2 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Seriously?  Our number one problem is bad play calling?

 

And "zero identity" is in the top 10?  What the hell does that even mean?  And how would that translate to winning on Sundays? 

 

You know what the most important factor is?  It didn't crack your Top 10!  

 

The quarterback.

We don't have one.

 

 

 

Personally I was happy with what I saw out of the kid in the second half.  I know you have a vested interest in this point of view because you've been beating this particular drum for so long, but go back and watch again, the kid shows some real promise.  Don't get me wrong, he's making a LOT of mistakes, but he seems to be learning and even progressing a bit too.  All in all I'd say it was a pretty good first start for a rookie, especially on that is going to need some work.   I'd kill to have Eric Wood back to help this kid along, as Groy doesn't seem to know his ass from his hat.

[GunnerBill]

33 minutes ago, vincec said:

Apparently, it's up to Allen to pick up the free blitzers. As if he didn't have enough on his plate as a rookie. Nice offensive system.

 

Quarterbacks and centers are responsible for identifying blitzers and adjusting protections. That is just football. It has been said that when Dak was a rookie in Dallas that his center took complete control of that for the season. He is arguably the best center in the NFL when healthy. We, in contrast, have a rookie QB and a center who has little starting experience. That might be where Bodine would help and I was probably as guilty as anyone of underrating that element during the center battle.

[billsredneck1]

1 hour ago, Tenhigh said:

Personally I was happy with what I saw out of the kid in the second half.  I know you have a vested interest in this point of view because you've been beating this particular drum for so long, but go back and watch again, the kid shows some real promise.  Don't get me wrong, he's making a LOT of mistakes, but he seems to be learning and even progressing a bit too.  All in all I'd say it was a pretty good first start for a rookie, especially on that is going to need some work.   I'd kill to have Eric Wood back to help this kid along, as Groy doesn't seem to know his ass from his hat.

the biggest problem is mills. there was one play( i think 3rd qtr.) where the de ran an inside stunt and mills whiffed and looked like an absolute quitter.  those inside stunts aren't making miller's job any easier.  if my short term memory serves me, i think it was like a 3rd down and we were in fg range (albeit a long one) and this whiff caused pressure.....

and while i was screaming for john boy to throw the ball, he took a sack and killed the fg position. i don't know for the life of me why they don't try someone else at rt.

 

especially if mills is getting eaten alive early on.  my preference of lineup would have been....and still is...dawkins lt / miller lg (his natural position) / bodine c (his experience should be able to call protections) / groy at rg (he can help cover mill's ass) and anyone other than mills at rt.

Edited September 19, 2018 by billsredneck1

[greeneblitz]

PFF, hahaha, try again, they so misuse stats and should never be trusted.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

3 hours ago, vincec said:

Apparently, it's up to Allen to pick up the free blitzers. As if he didn't have enough on his plate as a rookie. Nice offensive system.

 

Yes...it is up to the QB. That's part of his job, to properly direct the offense. That includes identifying blitzes pre-snap amd adjusting the protection. Its been a glaringly noticeable issue for Allen since week 2 of the preseason. 

 

This isnt an "offensive system" issue, its a "QB development" issue. There's a lot more to developing as an NFL quarterback than just going through progressions and making the proper reads. Making the proper pre-snap adjustments is part of that. Having the awareness to throw the ball away and live to see another down is part of that...etc. 

 

Its been one start for Allen. None of what we're seeing should come as a surprise to anyone, unless you have the wrong expectations. Too many people want to find someone to point the finger at, when it comes to the Bills' struggles so far this season. There's plenty of "blame" to go around; its not just one guy or one thing. QB gets blame at times, O-line at times, defense a lot. But most of us expected these kind of struggles going into the season. Some people just seemed to have lofty, unreasonable expectations; hope springs eternal before week 1.

 

We all want to win and win now, but its just not reasonable based on how this team is currently constructed. This needed to happen, for future success...real success, not 8-8, 9-7. The Bills are shedding dead weight and cap, and getting younger and more talented at important posistions like QB, LT, CB, MLB. Its taking a step back to take 2 forward. Sorry for getting off the rails a bit, but it just seems like a lot of people have the wrong perspective on little details as well as the bigger picture. 

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Quarterbacks and centers are responsible for identifying blitzers and adjusting protections. That is just football. It has been said that when Dak was a rookie in Dallas that his center took complete control of that for the season. He is arguably the best center in the NFL when healthy. We, in contrast, have a rookie QB and a center who has little starting experience. That might be where Bodine would help and I was probably as guilty as anyone of underrating that element during the center battle.

Good point.  We may be seeing Bodine soon.

[BurpleBull]

4 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Seriously?  Our number one problem is bad play calling?

 

And "zero identity" is in the top 10?  What the hell does that even mean?  And how would that translate to winning on Sundays? 

 

You know what the most important factor is?  It didn't crack your Top 10!  

 

The quarterback.

We don't have one.

 

 

 

 

"In no real order" still means, in no real order.

 

Without an identity you're pretty much doing whatever from one week to the next. Players might not know what exactly it is that they're trying to accomplish, outside of the obvious 'trying to win games' because nothing's been established...no philosophy, no identity.

 

 

The QB situation actually did crack the list. It's the last point concerning the Bills' possibly already conceding to the idea of not making the playoffs.

 

That's based on the super-early switch at QB. 

 

Way too early to say that the Bills don't have a QB in Allen, if that's what you're implying, considering he played well as a rookie making his first start.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob in STL]

Joe Buscalia

14 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

This just goes to show you - and me - that we often don't know what the heck is going on or why the Bills are playing poorly. 

 

PFF (in other thread on this sight), YardsPerPass, and Joe Buscaglia have all done a lot more studying than us, and all three have claimed that main culprits in the Chargers loss are Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds. Now, I think we could all see how Edmunds struggles against a savvy passer like Rivers, and while Allen certainly shows promise, he missed a lot of open guys and didn't get the ball out in time to be truly effective. 

 

But the real surprise is that the offensive line, save for center Ryan Groy, all played from decent to very well. In facxt, Both John Miller and Vlad Ducasse - two of the bigger punching bags on this site - actually played way above average and were standouts on the team:

 

 

Armed with this knowledge, it now makes sense that the OL has not been overhauled or changed much at all. In fact, other than maybe replacing Groy with Bodine, I don't see any changes coming for this line in the near future.

 

And with the change in the play-calling in the 2nd half, and with both our star 1st-round rookies getting valuable experience, I expect both them and this team to actually be a bit better than most are expecting this year. Certainly not 0-16 bad. 

 

Matbe The Process is working...and we just can't see it yet. 

 

 

No doubt that Allen and Edmunds have to get better, they are rookies in critical positions and they are learning., but to consider the thought that the OL is not a big problem is like saying you have not watched the games. 

 

PFF is pretty good but they do not know the game plan going in so their analysis is not complete IMO ... Joe Buscaglia is not a football expert.  He is WKBW  Bills beat reporter.  He is more qualified to make a Bocce's Pizza than he is to grade out NFL players. 

 

I will agree with your notion that the fans here need to chill out and let the season unfold.  I do Trust the Process and I am sticking with this staff for the next few years.  Last year showed me a lot about this coach and we need to give them a few years. 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Bob in STL

[row_33]

every expert sez you build from the O-line but I don't see teams actually doing this in the NFL

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

OL sucks, its not a question and not open for debate, its putrid.  Without question we NEED a MIN of 3 new starters on the OL this offseason from FA and the Draft.

 

 This OL is even terrible on Madden, Ingram sacked Allen 3 times on the first drive on me lmao

Edited September 19, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[dave mcbride]

15 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

This just goes to show you - and me - that we often don't know what the heck is going on or why the Bills are playing poorly. 

 

PFF (in other thread on this sight), YardsPerPass, and Joe Buscaglia have all done a lot more studying than us, and all three have claimed that main culprits in the Chargers loss are Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds. Now, I think we could all see how Edmunds struggles against a savvy passer like Rivers, and while Allen certainly shows promise, he missed a lot of open guys and didn't get the ball out in time to be truly effective. 

 

But the real surprise is that the offensive line, save for center Ryan Groy, all played from decent to very well. In facxt, Both John Miller and Vlad Ducasse - two of the bigger punching bags on this site - actually played way above average and were standouts on the team:

 

 

Armed with this knowledge, it now makes sense that the OL has not been overhauled or changed much at all. In fact, other than maybe replacing Groy with Bodine, I don't see any changes coming for this line in the near future.

 

And with the change in the play-calling in the 2nd half, and with both our star 1st-round rookies getting valuable experience, I expect both them and this team to actually be a bit better than most are expecting this year. Certainly not 0-16 bad. 

 

Matbe The Process is working...and we just can't see it yet. 

 

 

Looking at his letter grades, it's pretty shocking that every starter outside of Edmunds and Vontae Davis gets a B- or higher (mostly higher) given that they were essentially blown out.

[row_33]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

OL sucks, its not a question and not open for debate, its putrid.

 

 This OL is even terrible on Madden, Ingram sacked Allen 3 times on the first drive on me lmao

 

that just about tears it for hope

 

 

[NewEra]

15 hours ago, fansince88 said:

The biggest issue here is the patience of the fan base. This year, many on here claim was the down year that last year was supposed to be. Now it is showing that may be true and you want everyone cut and fired. Unbelievable how quick many turn. @Domdab99 good post

 

I’m down on this year’s team but I don’t want anyone to be fired (except Castillo, whom I wanted to be fired the second we hired him).  I believe in what McBeane is doing but I really hope we try and get Allen some playmakers out there.  Maholmes has Tyreek, Kelce, Hunt and shady to go along with Andy Reid.  Allen has Shady and he’s 30.  Nothing else except the lowest paid OL in the league. 

 

Beane better get our young QB some weapons  and some guys that can catch his passes or he’s going to end up like JP.  Not many free agent WRs. None worthy of being a #1 imo. We really may have to spend a 1st on a WR.

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

It's the end of the world!!!!!!

[Figster]

11 hours ago, MJS said:

 

Yep. That's why starting QB's get injured every year, including some of the great ones like Rodgers.

 

It does not matter if you have all pro bowl caliber linemen. It's going to happen occasionally.

I respectfully disagree, sure its going to happen on occasion, but it does matter what caliber lineman you have or the occasionlly becomes more frequently.

 

How can you even run the ball well when the Oline is getting blown off the line of scrimmage?

 

 Do you think its by coincidence the Eagles have one of the best Olines in the league?

Edited September 19, 2018 by Figster

[SoTier]

17 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

This just goes to show you - and me - that we often don't know what the heck is going on or why the Bills are playing poorly. 

 

PFF (in other thread on this sight), YardsPerPass, and Joe Buscaglia have all done a lot more studying than us, and all three have claimed that main culprits in the Chargers loss are Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds. Now, I think we could all see how Edmunds struggles against a savvy passer like Rivers, and while Allen certainly shows promise, he missed a lot of open guys and didn't get the ball out in time to be truly effective. 

 

But the real surprise is that the offensive line, save for center Ryan Groy, all played from decent to very well. In facxt, Both John Miller and Vlad Ducasse - two of the bigger punching bags on this site - actually played way above average and were standouts on the team:

 

 

Armed with this knowledge, it now makes sense that the OL has not been overhauled or changed much at all. In fact, other than maybe replacing Groy with Bodine, I don't see any changes coming for this line in the near future.

 

And with the change in the play-calling in the 2nd half, and with both our star 1st-round rookies getting valuable experience, I expect both them and this team to actually be a bit better than most are expecting this year. Certainly not 0-16 bad. 

 

Matbe The Process is working...and we just can't see it yet. 

 

 

 

It is totally disingenous to claim that "the OL is not the problem except for C Ryan Groy".  The C is the guy who calls the protections for the rest of his OL mates and if he gets it wrong, the QB pays for it.  Moreover, if the center can't hold his blocks, there's no pocket for the QB to step up into.

 

I wouldn't bet against 0-16 for this dumpster fire that McDermott and Beane have created, as hard as it is for NFL teams to go winless through an entire season. 

[ctk232]

20 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

 

I didn't say they suck...they just need some seasoning. I think they're both going to be very good....maybe even this year. 

I think it's important to separate the statistics from the implications and interpretation...you also have to consider the variables and factors that go into those grades and ask if they truly correlate or cause any effect on actual game performance. For example, the argument that Star grades poorly per PFF because he plays the one-technique and just eats up double teams every down. Let's assume he is actually doing well per his assigned role in the defense. This is not a flashy PFF grade, but it helps Kyle and others who make the tackles grade out well, too.

 

It's incredibly easy to say that both rookies didn't grade out well, and their performances were contributory to us losing the game. They were not the only reasons, though, and to think this summary and grading takes blame away from the OL is rather confusing. Does Allen's play not get affected by the OL's performance? So if we hold these grades to be all and end all, should Allen's grade not then reflect the immense protection and security the likes of Ducasse and Miller supposedly provided? How have they performed in the run game? Seems to me we haven't been able to establish an effective run game behind this OL either. Grades are fine in interpreting statistics, but they are not useful tools in determining actual player performance in relation to the outcome of a game. Even statistics fall short in that regard, and need to be properly interpreted to accurately capture that comparison. That being said, they can also bring to light circumstances that might not otherwise get picked up in the eye test, but take care how you use these arbitrary af grades.

 

Lastly, these analysts you proclaim do an immense amount of studying and should be taken seriously...do they not also have personal agendas to prove their draft predictions come true? Or write stories to increase readership which is directly tied to their paycheck? Do they not also consider other factors in determining these grades? I can read and study all I want about football, doesn't automatically make me an "expert" whose opinion is worth considering at an exceptional level. 

 

Take from this what information there is, but don't sensationalize a response based upon tangential "grading." We all think this team is ultimately headed in the right direction beyond what we're seeing this year, no point in trying to save the face of players on an OL that likely won't be here next year. 

 

So yes, you are absolutely right the OL is not the problem, the team is. But they are a large part of the performance that we are seeing.

Edited September 19, 2018 by ctk232

[Mango]

20 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

This just goes to show you - and me - that we often don't know what the heck is going on or why the Bills are playing poorly. 

 

PFF (in other thread on this sight), YardsPerPass, and Joe Buscaglia have all done a lot more studying than us, and all three have claimed that main culprits in the Chargers loss are Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds. Now, I think we could all see how Edmunds struggles against a savvy passer like Rivers, and while Allen certainly shows promise, he missed a lot of open guys and didn't get the ball out in time to be truly effective. 

 

But the real surprise is that the offensive line, save for center Ryan Groy, all played from decent to very well. In facxt, Both John Miller and Vlad Ducasse - two of the bigger punching bags on this site - actually played way above average and were standouts on the team:

 

 

Armed with this knowledge, it now makes sense that the OL has not been overhauled or changed much at all. In fact, other than maybe replacing Groy with Bodine, I don't see any changes coming for this line in the near future.

 

And with the change in the play-calling in the 2nd half, and with both our star 1st-round rookies getting valuable experience, I expect both them and this team to actually be a bit better than most are expecting this year. Certainly not 0-16 bad. 

 

Matbe The Process is working...and we just can't see it yet. 

 

 

 

It isn't a pie, right? So if they line is a huge problem, it doesn't make Allen less of one. 

 

Let's just remember that our QB was sacked on a handoff. Let the one sink in. The OL is a huge issue, so is QB play. 

[DuckyBoys]

I don't think you even need all 22 film to see the line isnt very good .  Not on every snap but certainly lots of protection breakdowns  Maybe they gel and things improve. Lot of those sacks was two guys picking up one rusher and leaving someone free to buzz in on the qb  Josh can help by making a decision and getting the rock out.  Get that run game going and don't put all the emphasis on Allen and he'll be ok.

[Tenhigh]

I can't believe that the we are freaking out about Allen after his FIRST start.  It's not going to be instant gratification, folks.  He will need to do some on the job learning. 

[TigerJ]

19 hours ago, billieve420 said:

We used to be able to run the ball consistently under Roman even with teams stacking the box. Why has the run game taken a nose dive year after year. I still believe the line is below average and could use upgrades throughout. 

Groy is playing poorly.  

[stuvian]

I guess shady getting tackled behind the LOS is his own fault