What areas of the team has Beane actually improved?

[Ol Dirty B]

35 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Dareus trade: perfectly justifiable. Star signing: a real head scratcher. I'll grant you that. 

 

I didn't mind the Dareus trade that much, even though i was never a fan of the dead money. The Star signing made me dislike it even more. I understand why people wanted him out of town, Dareus wasn't playing up to that contract.

[John from Riverside]

Tight End for one

[Ol Dirty B]

42 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said:

He improved the salary cap. Next year they an start to build. The secondary has been upgraded too.

 

I believe all those moves in the secondary that improved the team were made before he was in Buffalo. I could be wrong.

6 minutes ago, Estro said:

QB - worse/same

RB - same

WR - worse

TE - better/same

OL - worse

 

DE - worse/same

DT - same

LB - worse

CB - same

S - better, way better

 Wasn't responsible for Hyde or Poyer in the slightest. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Buffalo Barbarian]

QB, DL, LB

 

 

[Ol Dirty B]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

QB, DL, LB

 

 

 

We're about to start Peterman. Hopefully Allen pans out, but at this point, no QB is not an upgrade.

 

Not sure where on the DL the team is better.

 

LB is only better if Edmunds pans out.

 

You're 0/3 on improvements and didn't even include where the team has regressed. I understand they are in a transitional period, but he hasn't upgraded anything at this point.

[Mark Vader]

2 hours ago, QB Bills said:

Agree with most of this but I don't really get why everyone is in love with McDermott. We got really lucky last year in a weak year for the AFC.

 

He's just another in the long line of dinosaurs who will never have the balls to win anything big in this league. Playing it safe by punting on 4th and short near midfield in a meaningless preseason game when you are still in evaluation mode is just another example of how clueless this guy is. We're going nowhere with these two in charge. 

Sarcasm?

[North Buffalo]

Sp are the Bills tanking and any chance they could trade Shady for a number 1 next year or a couple of picks in the later rounds.  If the Bills start 0-5 or worse gotta think he will be on the block...  Gonna be a rough year if the O-lline doesn't come around.  Losing Richie and Wood both is a big blow to what the Bills were trying to accomplish this year...  Next year they need to draft at least 2 O-linemen, a number 1 receiver and a linebacker or sign Mack and sign a stoudt high end D interior lineman.  That is a lot to fill.  Haven't even looked at FAs who might be available next year.  Any young guys getting cut on O-line or D-line that might be worth PS signings to develop?

[Your brain broke]

All things considered i would have done the draft completely different. I didn't agree with a single pick Beane made. Even if i forgive him for trading all those draft picks for edmunds and allen, there were far better cb's available, and those wr picks...yikes. So many better one's sitting right there. 

[BullBuchanan]

3 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

Whaley also constructed a 9-7 team that was far more talented. He never sat on his hands, seemed to always be trying to improve the team. I really think his weakness in areas of communications, his presser, and the Pegulas being totally inept contributed to his down fall. I really think he came into a lot of dysfunction, if he was able to do the job the way a GM should be, I think he'd succeed. He brought in way more talent to this team than this current regime did. I know it's not a popular opinion, but when you look at it, what has the regime done? They really got lucky. Next year and the year after will be when we can crown them if they are good at their job.

 

I always liked Whaley from start to finish. Solid, if unspectacular drafts, and always found good players on the cheap to fill out rosters. What killed him is what kills every GM, the lack of a top tier QB.

[Ol Dirty B]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

I always liked Whaley from start to finish. Solid, if unspectacular drafts, and always found good players on the cheap to fill out rosters. What killed him is what kills every GM, the lack of a top tier QB.

 

Couldn't agree more. I think he knew it to. 

[BullBuchanan]

3 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

This stuff is too funny.. go talk to some Carolina fans about how their teams were built. They never had good receiving groups. Always middle priced vets. Of course Olsen and Benjamin.

they fielded some of the most pathetic defensive back groups ever. Older washed up safeties and undrafted or low draft pick corners. Carolina always has holes in certain areas they NEVER addressed or invested big money into. This team has been built a little differently but still the same model. 

The only way this plan works is if they DEVELOP young talent. 

 

Are you saying this is a good or bad thing? Outside of one miracle season, Carolina has never really been in a position to make a run. they're perennial pretenders. Cam couldn't win a Super Bowl if the other team didn't show up.

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Couldn't agree more. I think he knew it to. 

 

He must have laughed when at his pick he has his choice of Mahomes or Watson, and for whatever reason knew they had to trade the pick and he'd never enjoy the fruits of the trade.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

Unfortunately GM Whaley had alot of garbage on the roster, we purged the garbage and now were trying to fill it in until we draft/pickup the non garbage.The purge took a year, now were slowly filling in the pieces... QB- check, RB- check, WR- incomplete, OL- big need, DL- check, LB- incomplete, secondary- imcomplete, Beane and McDermott have their work cut out for them but I think they're both more than capable of handling it.

[greeneblitz]

70 million in cap space next year, that when the real rebuilding begins.

 

All that matters this year is Josh Allen truly becoming our franchise QB.

Edited August 27, 2018 by greeneblitz

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Did you prefer Whaley?

His teams were talented. 

 

Beane is just getting started though. His #1 job was fix the cap. Then draft a QB. He's just starting to build. 

45 minutes ago, greeneblitz said:

70 million in cap space next year, that when the real rebuilding begins.

 

All that matters this year is Josh Allen truly becoming our franchise QB.

Josh Allen is the franchise QB. They just have to be smart. Don't play him until you're ready to develop a QB. There will be about a seasons worth of growing pains, maybe multiple seasons. Everyone has to be on the same page when they decide to start him. Starting him now means losing a lot of games while he learns. We must be prepared for that. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by TheTruthHurts

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

And this team went 9-7, won't go near it. Did nothing but bring in Star, Kaelin Clay, Davis, and got into the playoffs on a fluke play in a game they weren't playing.... And I'm supposed to praise them?

 

I'm saying Beane hasn't show he's better than Whaley to this point, at all. You guys are so concerned about the cap on here, it's crazy. People want to cut Clay at this point... You won't sign anyone near his value at any position at this point. It's pointless, I'd think the money is coming out of your guys hands the way you want to cut guys at the most inopportune times. The dead money is ridicolous, and what they have gotten in return for it, be it draft capital, or giving guys an opportunity, has been atrocious. 

 

They traded Dareus for nothing. We're paying him 13 mil to play in Jacksonville. They signed Star to an absurd contract to replace Dareus where he is getting 10 mil this year. He's getting another 10 if he plays next year, and 8 in dead money if he is cut. That's 23 million on one position this year, and odds are, Star doesn't even play to Dareus's level. That's awful management. The way you guys want to cut people on here and talk about contracts is absurd. They haven't shown to be good at that at all.

 

We were just better off keeping Dareus. That was an absolutely horrendous trade.

 

No. What I said has nothing to do with Beane. Two separate discussions. So far Beane has ripped the team down in efforts to fix the cap.  Drafts aren’t too bad but let’s see how he builds it next year when he has cap space. Too early to judge him imo just yet but he definitely shouldn’t get praises yet either. 

 

Also so my point about cap space was that it was used wrong. Not that it was used. If you’re against the cap without even paying a franchise Qb and the best you can muster is 9-7 than you’re in trouble. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Scott7975

[Rc2catch]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Are you saying this is a good or bad thing? Outside of one miracle season, Carolina has never really been in a position to make a run. they're perennial pretenders. Cam couldn't win a Super Bowl if the other team didn't show up.

 

 

I would say it’s a good thing. Carolina is hit and miss good. They can only really run a gimmicky offense with Cam so they are limited how far he can take them. But IF the young talent is developed at some of these weaker depth positions usually determines how good the team is. 

Offensive lineman, receiver and defensive backfield are always an issue for the panthers. And take a look at some of the guys they’ve grown there. Some of their better players the last ten years were very low draft picks who developed with good coaching into starting caliber players. Norwell I had to lookup was an UDFA, Norman in the 5th round, most of their receivers haven’t worked out very well at all. 

[DCOrange]

I don’t think it makes sense to ask this question in the middle of the tear-down process. Very few positions have improved in the past couple years but that is on purpose. If this remains true in 2 years, Beane is likely gone IMO, but for now, he’s prioritized accumulating draft picks and cap space over improving the roster and from that perspective, he has done well.

 

The signings of Star, Vontae, and Ivory still leave me scratching my head though. 

[MAJBobby]

7 hours ago, Yeezus said:

Brandon Beane came into this organization and shook up the roster more than any other past GM's I can think of. He made several headline trades that saw some of our best young talent getting shipped away for draft picks

 

It was risky but we needed the draft picks. 2 years later he got his QB and this is the squad we are left with. Holes everywhere on the squad. 

 

I love Mcdermott as a HC, I think given what he had to work with last season he did very well. But I'm not at all sold on Beane like 90% of this fanbase. I truly don't understand what he has done to improve this team in the last 2 years. Roster turnover is rather quick in the NFL. This isn't hockey or the NBA where we have to wait for years until a young core of players develops into elite talent. Beane traded away some of our best players and has yet to replace them. 2nd offseason in a row he has completely ignored the oline and we now objectively have the worst oline in the league. 

 

I can only think of the RB's and safety position groups that have improved since the Rex era. Our LB's are some of the worst in the league, Dline and the pass rush has disappeared, and our top ranked rush offense is no more.  

 

This season doesn't count, and shouldn't. But we are realistically 2-3 years away from competing. Beane has a lot of work to do next offseason. 

 

Safety

CBs

DL 

TE

RB

QB

 

all upgraded 

 

also DROUGHT Broken

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

I always liked Whaley from start to finish. Solid, if unspectacular drafts, and always found good players on the cheap to fill out rosters. What killed him is what kills every GM, the lack of a top tier QB.

 

3 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Couldn't agree more. I think he knew it to. 

 

Lack of a top tier QB definitely hurt.  I think what killed him was never being allowed to choose a HC.  The Pegulas and Rex Ryan killed Whaley.

[Ayjent]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Unsure about the roster while Rex was coach. 

 

But certainly, in 2014 with Marrone and Schwartz, one could argue that there's an element of "Hard Knocks" that 9-7 wasn't good enough to take us into the playoffs that year, and that if that success on D had been maintained, next year's #12 offense should have spotted us 2 more wins and playoffs could have been achieved.

 

And there's a certain element of luck that 9-7 was enough to get in last year, when it wasn't in 2014, 2015, or 2016.

Well the defense Rex installed was a joke that took a top notch unit and made them mediocre at their best.   His saving grace was the Offense, and Whaley getting himTaylor, Incognito, and McCoy.  If the defense would’ve been a tad better they probably make the playoffs both years.  I was no Whaley fan, but he gave Rex everything he needed to succeed and piss poor coaching is why Rex won’t coach in the NFL as a coordinator or head coach ever again, unless a team is just run by a bunch of fools.

 

The silver lining of Rex’s tenure was that they built a decent offense and found a pretty serviceable game managing QB that won’t make many mistakes and can extend plays and drives with his ability to move.  This GM has been tearing that up since he got here and it is now at about ground zero - let’s see what he constructs, but he didn’t have to tear down the foundation to rebuild the house - sure it may have been cheaper to just tear it all down, but it’s going to get expensive again if you hit on the right picks and just damning if you don’t hit on enough in quick succession (see Sabres).

[Chandler#81]

7 hours ago, Yeezus said:

 

that doesn't explain why he traded Darby & Ragland. they were awful trades and did more harm than good. We could have used both players last year and this year. 

 

It (the post you’re bitching about) does explain why the trades took place and the actual results won’t be clear for a couple years. Allen & Edmunds wouldn’t have been available at the lone 22nd Draft position we earned from last season and both were absolute positions of need. There actually is a plan and it’s right in front of your scowling face. Only fans with black hearts don’t/can’t see this. 

This wouldn’t be you, would it??

[dubs]

Amazing how quickly people forget. 

 

Housing prices skyrocketing

Longest Bull market in history

Bills making the playoffs after 17 years 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

24 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 

Lack of a top tier QB definitely hurt.  I think what killed him was never being allowed to choose a HC.  The Pegulas and Rex Ryan killed Whaley.

 

Whaley made some terrible decisions on draft day, with Watkins being top of the list. He, too, completely neglected the OL and QB positions. Where he did fairly good work was in scouting waivers and udfas. He was also AWFUL at cap management.

[Radar]

People this team was catching lightning in a bottle last year and many fans bought into it. I fully expect a step back record wise. Beane and company have two or three seasons to improve and rebuild. We'll see then. 

[Bills Pimpin']

Is this entire thread based off the result of a preseason game? Methinks most internet forum GM's and coaches should wait to spew their hate until after the first game that counts. 

And FYI, comparing this regime after one solid season to the previous and coming to the conclusion the previous was better is almost laughable. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

Is this entire thread based off the result of a preseason game? Methinks most internet forum GM's and coaches should wait to spew their hate until after the first game that counts. 

And FYI, comparing this regime after one solid season to the previous and coming to the conclusion the previous was better is almost laughable. 

 

This.

 

 

[dayman]

Beane deconstructed the roster last year and is still in cap purgatory this year. I expect 2 more offseasons and 3 more seasons before his vision is realized. 

[RiotAct]

The process.

 

The overpriced fat.

 

The DBs.

[Hebert19]

Simple answer.  

 

He fixed our salary cap and dead cap mess so we can build a real team. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

51 minutes ago, dubs said:

Amazing how quickly people forget. 

 

Housing prices skyrocketing

Longest Bull market in history

Bills making the playoffs after 17 years 

 

 

I get it, but making the playoffs had very little to do with Beane. It was one of the worst Bills teams since 2000. Bad teams sneak into the playoffs all the time, which is why the drought was unbelievable. Now we're a bad team without stability at QB. We saw what happens when Tyrod doesn't play.

Edited August 27, 2018 by TheTruthHurts

[dubs]

12 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

I get it, but making the playoffs had very little to do with Beane. It was one of the worst Bills teams since 2000. Bad teams sneak into the playoffs all the time, which is why the drought was unbelievable. Now we're a bad team without stability at QB. We saw what happens when Tyrod doesn't play.

 

We have?  I don’t remember any real games happening. 

 

I really don’t understand how people can doubt this regime. It takes time to build a team and can’t do it in one or two years. They recognized when they came on the team was limited to fringe playoff team and had to tear down and rebuild to raise the ceiling. They are doing that. Be patient. 

[Cripple Creek]

9 hours ago, Yeezus said:

Brandon Beane came into this organization and shook up the roster more than any other past GM's I can think of. He made several headline trades that saw some of our best young talent getting shipped away for draft picks

 

It was risky but we needed the draft picks. 2 years later he got his QB and this is the squad we are left with. Holes everywhere on the squad. 

 

I love Mcdermott as a HC, I think given what he had to work with last season he did very well. But I'm not at all sold on Beane like 90% of this fanbase. I truly don't understand what he has done to improve this team in the last 2 years. Roster turnover is rather quick in the NFL. This isn't hockey or the NBA where we have to wait for years until a young core of players develops into elite talent. Beane traded away some of our best players and has yet to replace them. 2nd offseason in a row he has completely ignored the oline and we now objectively have the worst oline in the league. 

 

I can only think of the RB's and safety position groups that have improved since the Rex era. Our LB's are some of the worst in the league, Dline and the pass rush has disappeared, and our top ranked rush offense is no more.  

 

This season doesn't count, and shouldn't. But we are realistically 2-3 years away from competing. Beane has a lot of work to do next offseason. 

Hi buddy! Where you been?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, dubs said:

 

We have?  I don’t remember any real games happening. 

 

I really don’t understand how people can doubt this regime. It takes time to build a team and can’t do it in one or two years. They recognized when they came on the team was limited to fringe playoff team and had to tear down and rebuild to raise the ceiling. They are doing that. Be patient. 

Analyze the team, what are you comfortable with? If Davis cant play anymore our strongest position suddenly has a gaping hole QBs will pick apart.

[mjt328]

10 hours ago, Yeezus said:

Brandon Beane came into this organization and shook up the roster more than any other past GM's I can think of. He made several headline trades that saw some of our best young talent getting shipped away for draft picks

 

It was risky but we needed the draft picks. 2 years later he got his QB and this is the squad we are left with. Holes everywhere on the squad. 

 

I love Mcdermott as a HC, I think given what he had to work with last season he did very well. But I'm not at all sold on Beane like 90% of this fanbase. I truly don't understand what he has done to improve this team in the last 2 years. Roster turnover is rather quick in the NFL. This isn't hockey or the NBA where we have to wait for years until a young core of players develops into elite talent. Beane traded away some of our best players and has yet to replace them. 2nd offseason in a row he has completely ignored the oline and we now objectively have the worst oline in the league. 

 

I can only think of the RB's and safety position groups that have improved since the Rex era. Our LB's are some of the worst in the league, Dline and the pass rush has disappeared, and our top ranked rush offense is no more.  

 

This season doesn't count, and shouldn't. But we are realistically 2-3 years away from competing. Beane has a lot of work to do next offseason. 

 

I really hope the message board isn't going to be flooded with these kinds of posts all season.

 

Fans need to get it in their heads. 

Brandon Beane didn't come in here to patch some holes and make us a Wild Card team.  He came here to completely tear-down what the previous regime did, and construct this roster piece-by-piece into a consistent championship contender.  That cannot be done in only 1-2 seasons.  (I think many fans have already forgotten that Beane didn't even come to Buffalo until May of last year, after Free Agency and the Draft were already wrapped up.)

 

I agree that roster turnover CAN be quick in the NFL.  But a lot of that depends on what pieces are already in place.

The cornerstones of Doug Whaley's roster were either players that Beane didn't want (Sammy Watkins, Ronald Darby, Marcel Dareus, Reggie Ragland, Cordy Glenn, Tyrod Taylor) or players that have retired this offseason (Eric Wood, Ritchie Incognito).  This is a TOTAL rebuild.

 

Our two most important acquisitions this offseason were Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds.  The plan is to build the franchise around THESE TWO GUYS for the next decade.  Hopefully someday both will become regular Pro Bowlers.  But for now, the common trait is that both Allen/Edmunds were considered physical freaks, who were raw and needed LOTS of refinement before reaching their potential.  Read the scouting reports before the draft.  Neither of these guys were expected to make a tremendous impact as rookies.  There will be growing pains, and mistakes.

 

Considering the number of players we decided to part-ways with, the two surprise retirements on the O-Line, our terrible salary cap position, and our desperation to land a franchise-QB --- it was totally unrealistic to expect Beane to fill all of our glaring holes in one offseason.  The plan in Free Agency was to be conservative in spending this year, and get the dead-money/bad contracts off the books.  Once 2019 hits, the Bills just might have the most cap space in the entire NFL to play around with.  And all of our future draft picks.

 

Bottom line.  There needs to be an element of patience among the Bills fanbase.

- 2018 was all about blowing up the roster and purging the unwanted pieces. 

- 2019 is about rebuilding the foundation

- 2020 will be about filling in those holes

 

If we aren't competing for the AFC East by the end of next year, then we can start criticizing what Beane did right/wrong.  Until then, it's way too premature.

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by mjt328

[ddaryl]

9 hours ago, Agent 91 said:

I feel like there is a weird power thing happening.I'm not sure how much of this isn't McDermott. Brand is a GM face but does he really have the ability to make moves without McDs sign off?

 

Jerry Sullivan is that you, or are you Bucky? .. This is a complete grasp for a conspiracy theory to hang your hat on.

 

 

I'm really only concerned with the OL and so much of that is from unfortunate circumstances....  

Edited August 27, 2018 by ddaryl

[gobills1212]

Man... which way is the wing blowing today???

[Heitz]

37 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

I really hope the message board isn't going to be flooded with these kinds of posts all season.

 

There are a handful of known trolls on TBD that will always post the same drivel.   You nailed it though, it's a rebuild and we just picked a couple of our cornerstone players.

 

Beane got us an actual, young, top QB prospect, which is, you know, the most important position on the field - he's already done more than Whaley!!

[dubs]

51 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Analyze the team, what are you comfortable with? If Davis cant play anymore our strongest position suddenly has a gaping hole QBs will pick apart.

 

I’m not disagreeing this team is looking weak.  They had to move mountains to get a potential franchise QB. That was obviously the priority. They also are trying to improve the defense. You can argue about Josh and the defense, but it’s clear to me that’s what they are doing. 

 

Next they need to and im sure they will address OL and WR. 

 

Its not that complicated to understand. If you are looking at just this year compared to 2016, you’re doing it wrong.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

I’m not disagreeing this team is looking weak.  They had to move mountains to get a potential franchise QB. That was obviously the priority. They also are trying to improve the defense. You can argue about Josh and the defense, but it’s clear to me that’s what they are doing. 

 

Next they need to and im sure they will address OL and WR. 

 

Its not that complicated to understand. If you are looking at just this year compared to 2016, you’re doing it wrong.  

What?

[Keukasmallies]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

We made the playoffs. Can't argue with results.

 

Might be more accurate to say we fell into the playoffs; we were in the right place at the right time.  No way do I accept we played our way in.