What areas of the team has Beane actually improved?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I'm not sure what I think about Beane, as my main issue is I don't see a coherent plan/vision yet (it's early), other than him and McDermott like character guys. In his time here, he's mostly purged Whaley's cornerstones (Cordy Glenn, Dareus, Preston Brown, Darby, Watkins, Ragland) and taken his shot this year at QB. But he has also done what Whaley did in the past, blow draft capital to move up and get specific guys they want. We spent a lot for Allen and Edmunds. 

I want to see what Beane really believes in. Does he really think that running the ball in snowy Buffalo is enough to win the Super Bowl? In two years he hasn't done anything to bolster the depth behind McCoy or Charles Clay. Last year Mike Tolbert was our only #2 running back. A 260-pound fullback. This year its Matt Murphy off the street. Is the plan really to ride McCoy until the wheels fall off? Similar approach at Tight End. Take a Whaley hold over, and have street free agents back him up. 

 

I still don't really understand what they want their offense to look like. After the Draft, Beane explained the Allen fascination by talking about how Cam Newton was the prototype of what they wanted their QB to be. Tall, strong arm. Like Whaley, never really mentioned how Allen actually throws a football with accuracy. I think this head in still in Carolina (saw a ton of Panthers FA/trades coming here last year). Is there more to this plan? Are we going to start getting WR's that can stretch the field?

 

If not, why did we pay the premium to draft Allen? Why do you need a rocket arm? If the Coach believes that the run game is the rock on which the offense is to be built on, then why did we draft Allen? So in the coming year and Draft do the Bills build a modern dynamic offense? Or is their vision the same as Doug Marrone and Rex Ryan, field position, running and defense? Kelvin Benjamin is not a burner, he can't separate. 

 

How does Buffalo get out of 31st place in passing? Removing Tyrod and drafting Allen was Step One. Now is Beane going to get real WRs and Tight Ends to give Allen options, or are we going to ride LeSean McCoy again? 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo03]

All these people are flipping their lids over preseason. Can we see how the regular season starts first? 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

12 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I'm not sure what I think about Beane, as my main issue is I don't see a coherent plan/vision yet (it's early), other than him and McDermott like character guys. In his time here, he's mostly purged Whaley's cornerstones (Cordy Glenn, Dareus, Preston Brown, Darby, Watkins, Ragland) and taken his shot this year at QB. But he has also done what Whaley did in the past, blow draft capital to move up and get specific guys they want. We spent a lot for Allen and Edmunds. 

I want to see what Beane really believes in. Does he really think that running the ball in snowy Buffalo is enough to win the Super Bowl? In two years he hasn't done anything to bolster the depth behind McCoy or Charles Clay. Last year Mike Tolbert was our only #2 running back. A 260-pound fullback. This year its Matt Murphy off the street. Is the plan really to ride McCoy until the wheels fall off? Similar approach at Tight End. Take a Whaley hold over, and have street free agents back him up. 

 

I still don't really understand what they want their offense to look like. After the Draft, Beane explained the Allen fascination by talking about how Cam Newton was the prototype of what they wanted their QB to be. Tall, strong arm. Like Whaley, never really mentioned how Allen actually throws a football with accuracy. I think this head in still in Carolina (saw a ton of Panthers FA/trades coming here last year). Is there more to this plan? Are we going to start getting WR's that can stretch the field?

 

If not, why did we pay the premium to draft Allen? Why do you need a rocket arm? If the Coach believes that the run game is the rock on which the offense is to be built on, then why did we draft Allen? So in the coming year and Draft do the Bills build a modern dynamic offense? Or is their vision the same as Doug Marrone and Rex Ryan, field position, running and defense? Kelvin Benjamin is not a burner, he can't separate. 

 

How does Buffalo get out of 31st place in passing? Removing Tyrod and drafting Allen was Step One. Now is Beane going to get real WRs and Tight Ends to give Allen options, or are we going to ride LeSean McCoy again? 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

They traded talent and bad contracts in 2017 to acquire picks to get their QB in 2018.  They got their QB in 2018 - and managed to snag a MLB that they like a lot.  In doing so we ate a ton of money in 2017, and didnt carry over much space.  We also now carry the highest dead cap number in 2018.  Therefore we have essentially the cheapest roster in the nfl of just roster players. 

 

Looking at past re-builds, teams that try to rush it end up causing a delay on the next rebuild.  Good players on bad contracts are as bad for a team as bad players.  We're set to carry over probably about 10 million, and projected to have probably close to 60 - so free agency is fair game, and we were able to keep the 2019 draft class intact.  They're building from the ground up, and started at the most important position. 

 

The rams and eagles both looked pretty poor in 2016 - and added a lot of players in 2017 to pretty solid results.  The rams did a 1 yr overhaul on their O-line and it helped a ton.  They had a completely new set of receivers by the end of 2017 as well.  The eagles also brought in receivers that better fit what they were trying to do.  

[Mango]

11 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

They traded talent and bad contracts in 2017 to acquire picks to get their QB in 2018.  They got their QB in 2018 - and managed to snag a MLB that they like a lot.  In doing so we ate a ton of money in 2017, and didnt carry over much space.  We also now carry the highest dead cap number in 2018.  Therefore we have essentially the cheapest roster in the nfl of just roster players. 

 

Looking at past re-builds, teams that try to rush it end up causing a delay on the next rebuild.  Good players on bad contracts are as bad for a team as bad players.  We're set to carry over probably about 10 million, and projected to have probably close to 60 - so free agency is fair game, and we were able to keep the 2019 draft class intact.  They're building from the ground up, and started at the most important position. 

 

The rams and eagles both looked pretty poor in 2016 - and added a lot of players in 2017 to pretty solid results.  The rams did a 1 yr overhaul on their O-line and it helped a ton.  They had a completely new set of receivers by the end of 2017 as well.  The eagles also brought in receivers that better fit what they were trying to do.  

 

I very much disagree with the idea that teams largely get better by subtraction of talent. Sure you have your TO's and such. But guys like Darby, Glenn, and Brown don't fit in that category. This was not a team of misfit personalities that Beane inherited. Our defense got worse without Dareus, and Jacksonville got better. Eliminating talent because they "aren't your guys" or "don't fit they system" doesn't really have a long history of success. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

I very much disagree with the idea that teams largely get better by subtraction of talent. Sure you have your TO's and such. But guys like Darby, Glenn, and Brown don't fit in that category. This was not a team of misfit personalities that Beane inherited. Our defense got worse without Dareus, and Jacksonville got better. Eliminating talent because they "aren't your guys" or "don't fit they system" doesn't really have a long history of success. 

 

Dareus was cash savings - and cap savings.

[Mango]

Just now, dneveu said:

 

Dareus was cash savings - and cap savings.

 

Between dead cap and Starr's salary, our DT1 is costing this team ~23 mil this year....

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Between dead cap and Starr's salary, our DT1 is costing this team ~23 mil this year....

Im thinking we are taking the hit this year for Marcel hence the dead cap money

 

This is the year we take the big hit

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, Agent 91 said:

Sure. Seems like while they both mismanaged the cap at times Whaley had the eye. His problem as a GM was that he was more of a scout. I envision his job as the HC saying I need a guy who can do this thing. And Whaley instantly knowing Corey Graham, Zach Brown, Nikel Robeys. He just had a knack for the unheard of people who just worked. I could be argued down but faith and all these corny mantras didn't exist. For those people who really liked Jim Schwartz, he was pushing for Hue Jackson who would have tried to keep Schwartz on. OK Hue has been pretty bad, but where is Rex? I just feel like he wanted better FB players and was prepped to sacrifice the content of team character.

 

Beane and McD seem to want to win. But the right way. And so far 2 offseasons this has been pretty bad. The mismanagement of draft picks, no attempt to fortify a line where are the wrs? I am just having a tough time trusting this process.

 

What is "the right way"?  What I see is McDermott and Beane bringing in their pals from Carolina or gambling on guys with injury issues or guys who've failed on other teams.   I see them basically trying to copy the Carolina Panthers, but somewhat on the cheap.   I'd rather have them try to copy the Philadelphia Eagles ... a team that went from 7-9 under Chip Kelly to 13-3 and Super Bowl champs two seasons later.

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Im thinking we are taking the hit this year for Marcel hence the dead cap money

 

This is the year we take the big hit

 

Yeah, I understand the reasoning, I just disagree with it. Dareus carries more in dead cap space this year, than he would have on the actual roster. We also could have either straight cut him after this season with ZERO cap implications. We are paying his replacement the same amount we would pay him if he were on the roster, for lesser production. 

[dave mcbride]

33 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

They traded talent and bad contracts in 2017 to acquire picks to get their QB in 2018.  They got their QB in 2018 - and managed to snag a MLB that they like a lot.  In doing so we ate a ton of money in 2017, and didnt carry over much space.  We also now carry the highest dead cap number in 2018.  Therefore we have essentially the cheapest roster in the nfl of just roster players. 

 

Looking at past re-builds, teams that try to rush it end up causing a delay on the next rebuild.  Good players on bad contracts are as bad for a team as bad players.  We're set to carry over probably about 10 million, and projected to have probably close to 60 - so free agency is fair game, and we were able to keep the 2019 draft class intact.  They're building from the ground up, and started at the most important position. 

 

The rams and eagles both looked pretty poor in 2016 - and added a lot of players in 2017 to pretty solid results.  The rams did a 1 yr overhaul on their O-line and it helped a ton.  They had a completely new set of receivers by the end of 2017 as well.  The eagles also brought in receivers that better fit what they were trying to do.  

OTC has us at nearly $71 million under the cap next season: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/buffalo-bills/ . What do you mean when you refer to carrying over $10 million? 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Yeah, I understand the reasoning, I just disagree with it. Dareus carries more in dead cap space this year, than he would have on the actual roster. We also could have either straight cut him after this season with ZERO cap implications. We are paying his replacement the same amount we would pay him if he were on the roster, for lesser production. 

While, in the meantime, having a guy on the roster who didn't show up to practice (or games for that matter), was asleep in meetings and providing an example that if you didn't work you'd still get paid.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Mango said:

 

Yeah, I understand the reasoning, I just disagree with it. Dareus carries more in dead cap space this year, than he would have on the actual roster. We also could have either straight cut him after this season with ZERO cap implications. We are paying his replacement the same amount we would pay him if he were on the roster, for lesser production. 

Did you see Marcel's last pre season game

 

His effort was horrible.....I mean literally it was pretty bad

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, dubs said:

 

I’m not disagreeing this team is looking weak.  They had to move mountains to get a potential franchise QB. That was obviously the priority. They also are trying to improve the defense. You can argue about Josh and the defense, but it’s clear to me that’s what they are doing. 

 

Next they need to and im sure they will address OL and WR. 

 

Its not that complicated to understand. If you are looking at just this year compared to 2016, you’re doing it wrong.  

If you click on the 2019 tab here, outside of Rodger Saffold, I don't see much in the way of average-to-above-average o-line talent coming on the market next season ... 

 

https://overthecap.com/free-agency

[Mango]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

While, in the meantime, having a guy on the roster who didn't show up to practice (or games for that matter), was asleep in meetings and providing an example that if you didn't work you'd still get paid.

 

 

 

I don't totally buy that. Dareus left, we got worse, Jacksonville got better. To me that flat out lazy players generally don't generally create that sort of swing when leaving. I don't see him as a Haynesworth type of guy. 

 

Part of your job description as a HC is getting your top athletes to engage at a high and consistent level. Marrone seems to be winning that battle vs. McD in regards to Dareus. I hate saying that because I HATE Doug Marrone. But it is currently the reality of the situation. Marrone last year got more commitment from Dareus than the Bills did, assuming the claims that Dareus is lazy, are true. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

I don't totally buy that. Dareus left, we got worse, Jacksonville got better. To me that flat out lazy players generally don't generally create that sort of swing when leaving. I don't see him as a Haynesworth type of guy. 

 

Part of your job description as a HC is getting your top athletes to engage at a high and consistent level. Marrone seems to be winning that battle vs. McD in regards to Dareus. I hate saying that because I HATE Doug Marrone. But it is currently the reality of the situation. Marrone last year got more commitment from Dareus than the Bills did, assuming the claims that Dareus is lazy, are true. 

Could be because Marrone ruled with fear.

 

Could be. Don't know. But the fact is, the guy was stealing money...and we have Whaley to thank for that.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by joesixpack

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Did you see Marcel's last pre season game

 

His effort was horrible.....I mean literally it was pretty bad

 

Haven't followed any of the Jags offseason/preseason. I will keep an eye out when the season starts. Just going off of 2017. 

[BillsFan130]

12 hours ago, Yeezus said:

 

Whaley made a lot of solid moves, he was unlucky and had to deal with EJ. 

 

He brought us Richie, Jerry Hughes, Lorenzo, Shady. He really tried to improve this team but had no QB and a disaster of a coaching staff that Pegula hired. 

 

 

He also traded up and drafted Sammy Watkins and passed on Khalil Mack in the process..

[Jpsredemption]

None really but you will continually be referenced to the past because it's the ultimate defense mechanism.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

To answer the question. 

 

Safety has been upgraded: Colt Anderson, Johnathon Meeks, Corey Graham and Rob Blanton to Hyde, Poyer and Bush. **Mango correctly pointed out that this was Whaley not Beane. Therefore, no credit here to Beane. 

 

 

Then you have to go position by position.

 

QB - Hard to say that for 2018 we got better from Tyrod. Longterm its all on Allen.

 

RB - No. We took McCoy, a Whaley holdover, and haven't added any other names other than Matt Murphy and Mike Tolbert. 

 

WR - Watkins, Woods, Goodwin to Benjamin, Jones and Streater? No upgrade here.

 

Offensive Line - Is Dawkins better than Glenn? Unlikely. Then Incognito reverted back to what he was. Wood had to retire. They love Ducasse for some reason, John Miller is starting again, and they still can't find anyone better than Jordan Mills. Not upgraded.

 

Tight End - Took a Whaley holdover, Charles Clay, and have done nothing but added street scrubs behind him. No upgrade. 

 

Defensive Line - It was Dareus, Williams, Hughes, Lawson. Now its Star L, Williams, I do like the Phillips pick, Hughes and Murphy. No upgrade.

 

Linebackers - Was Alexander, Preston Brown, Zach Brown. Now its Alexander, Edmunds, Millano. I think that's a downgrade with no depth. 

 

Safety - Already covered, upgraded, but not by Beane. No upgrade.

 

Cornerback - Was Gilmore, Darby, Coleman, now is White, Davis, Johnson, Gaines. Gilmore leaving, good riddance, the Darby trade was never a good one in my opinion, and I liked Coleman. They hit on White (although Beane wasn't here when he was drafted) and they got by last year with E.J. Gaines off the street. I'd say this is a push. I'd like this group if it was White and Darby. But without Darby, we're ok, but not better than average. No upgrade.  

Edited August 27, 2018 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Stanley Lombardi]

Total number of of official games played per season:  17 in '17