Kelly or Brady

[Doc Brown]

23 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

For the first 3 Pats* SB wins, Brady had a much better defense. He also had a much better coach / staff for all of them. When Manning was on a team with an elite defense, he was able to guide them to a title when he had absolutely no arm left. If PM were on the Pats with Belichick for most of his career, he may have won 6 SBs. 

That's why I said I can understand the argument, but we'll never know so I just go by what actually happened.

[Kemp]

Wondering whether a QB who isn't top 10 of all time is better than Brady is funny stuff.

 

If I had a cousin who said that Andre Reed was better than Rice, I would cringe, not post it here.

[Rochesterfan]

7 hours ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

My cousin thinks Brady is not better than Kelly. The reason is: A) Kelly was more mobile. B) Belichick is a better coach than Levy. C) 4 straight SB appearances. D)

Deflategate/Spygate

 

Can any case be made Kelly is just as good, if not better, than Brady? Jim played in an era that wasn't as kind to Qb's.

 

 

What era era are we playing in and what age are the QBs.

 

If we are playing in the 90’s with tighter coverage, more bump and run, and QBs that could just get destroyed on each rush - give me Kelly as he was much tougher and could take the hits and had a better arm.

 

If we are playing in 2018, it is more cerebral because the QB has more time to read and the DBs cannot play as tight - a guy like Brady can succeed much better than a guy like Kelly.

 

What stinks is a guy like Marino with his incredible arm talent and quick release can thrive in either era.  

 

I also think a guy like Brady has more success across every era than a guy like Jim does, but both would be good players no matter the era, but specifically in the 1990’s - I think Jim’s brand of leadership and style fit better and would take a team further.

[oldmanfan]

Oh please.

 

Saying Brady wouldn't have lasted in Kelly's era is ridiculous. Marion did and he was one of the least mobile QBs ever.  I have been a Bills fan since opening day 1960 and love Jimbo, but Brady is better.

 

Brady is GOAT, and Montana right there with him.  Manning?  Melted down in the playoffs.

 

you make me pick the top three:  Brady, Montana, then a toss up between Unitas and Otto Graham.

[Xwnyer]

I hate to say Brady but not even close.  Kelly had HOF RB! two HOF receivers and couldn’t win a SB.  Meanwhile Brady had none of these yet has won.  Yes different eras and no way Brady survives a season under the old rules .

[The Process]

Every year I try to think of a new reason to hate Brady. Every year he hands that reason to me. Like flopping in front of the ref when a player brushed his shoulder after the play. He is a laser surgeon with making the short passing game into a quasi-running game. But never will I admit he's the greatest of all time. Think about that term "greatest of all time". With that title your record better be squeeky clean and not full of ass-terixs. As for the Kelly comparison....I agree with all the apples and oranges comments here. How would the two compare in the same era....we will never know. We can opine until the sun goes down...and never come to an accurate conclusion.

[BananaB]

25 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Oh please.

 

Saying Brady wouldn't have lasted in Kelly's era is ridiculous. Marion did and he was one of the least mobile QBs ever.  I have been a Bills fan since opening day 1960 and love Jimbo, but Brady is better.

 

Brady is GOAT, and Montana right there with him.  Manning?  Melted down in the playoffs.

 

you make me pick the top three:  Brady, Montana, then a toss up between Unitas and Otto Graham.

 

Marino took a **** load hits also. Got nothing to do with being mobile, it got to do with getting knocked down almost every play. All the QBs took a pounding in those days. The game was so much more physical. 

[/dev/null]

Tom Brady is the GOAT.  I despise him but have to admit this fact

 

Jim Kelly is a better human being

[thenorthremembers]

Brady is the GOAT, and I really don't think its close anymore.   Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I've always felt like anyone who said differently was blinded by bias.

 

Kelly was a good quarterback but probably is only in the conversation for the top 15 of all time at most.

 

[Gugny]

9 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Johnny Unitas is the best to ever play.  Brady isn't even in that conversation.

 

Kelly isn't even in the top 10.

 

Brady over Kelly, any day.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

the !@#$ is this circle jerk around brady for?

 

!@#$ that !@#$ and everything about him.

 

Its Kelly 1000000% without a !@#$ing question. 

 

bradys B word ass wouldnt have survived in the nfl when kelly was around. This current league is all lets suck the qbs dick, espeically yours truly. that !@#$er and the patties have permanently tainted the league, and the league took it. 

 

What makes your dick so special?

Edited August 20, 2018 by Gugny

[Bill from NYC]

11 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Different erra.  Tom Brady doesn't last a whole season back then.  All of the big three and Montana are better than Brady and Manning.  Jerry Rice would have had 40000 yards under these rules.

 

Dan Marino is the GOAT period.  Makes me sick saying that.  Not as sick as Brady, especially since Brady isn't the GOAT.  This game won't be recognizable in 10 years.

The bolded is a very interesting perspective. I think that Brady has the talent to have got rid of the ball on time in those days, no problem at all. I do however think that he would have been beaten half to death by late hits. Players must pay these hefty fines themselves now so the late hits are less common.

Today, receivers own the middle. Jack Tatum, Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott, etc. owned it back in the day and that makes a huge difference.

 

I do however respectfully disagree about Marino being the best of all time.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Bill from NYC

[row_33]

Kelly wasn’t close to being the best of his era, but he fit perfectly into the Bills system.

 

it just worked 

 

 

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

The bolded is a very interesting perspective. I think that Brady has the talent to have got rid of the ball on time in those days, no problem at all. I do however think that he would have been beaten half to death by late hits. Players must pay these hefty fines themselves now so the late hits are less common.

Today, receivers owned the middle. Jack Tatum, Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott, etc. owned it back in the day and that makes a huge difference.

 

I do however respectfully disagree about Marino being the best of all time.

 

The game was just more physical. Brady still would of been a great player but he would of never had the career he has had back in that time in football. Marino’s most TDs record lasted 20 years before it got broke. Then it broke again and again. Different time, different game.  I just can’t see guys today playing during that time and having the same success, but I can picture a lot of the good QBs in 80s/90s having better careers in today’s NFL.

Edited August 20, 2018 by BananaB

[Matt_In_NH]

The only people who say Kelly over Brady are bills fans or just people who hate Brady and are irrational in my opinion. 

[steven50]

11 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Different erra.  Tom Brady doesn't last a whole season back then.  All of the big three and Montana are better than Brady and Manning.  Jerry Rice would have had 40000 yards under these rules.

 

Dan Marino is the GOAT period.  Makes me sick saying that.  Not as sick as Brady, especially since Brady isn't the GOAT.  This game won't be recognizable in 10 years.

 

100% agree.

Comparing quarterbacks now to quarterbacks in the past is impossible. The rule changes have been very slanted towards the offense and blowing on a QB hard now will get you a flag.

[Your Brown Eye]

Brady. He wouldn't have allowed the team to get piss drunk the day before the Super Bowls.

[Royale with Cheese]

It's Brady and it's not even close.

 

We all love Jim, he was an all time great.  Brady is on another level and probably the best QB of all time.

He's a Tier 1 QB like Elway, Manning, Montana, Unitas etc....

 

Jim Kelly is a Tier 2 with like a Dan Fouts, Bob Griese, Warren Moon etc....

[row_33]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

It's Brady and it's not even close.

 

We all love Jim, he was an all time great.  Brady is on another level and probably the best QB of all time.

He's a Tier 1 QB like Elway, Manning, Montana, Unitas etc....

 

Jim Kelly is a Tier 2 with like a Dan Fouts, Bob Griese, Warren Moon etc....

 

fair enough ranking, thanks!

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, row_33 said:

 

fair enough ranking, thanks!

 

I agree with your comment that Kelly just fit perfectly in the Bills system...he did.

[row_33]

35 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I agree with your comment that Kelly just fit perfectly in the Bills system...he did.

 

I haven't been able to the Kelly Bills to win with real-stat sims like Strat-o-Matic or other computer games....

 

It worked for the team though, which is all that matters

 

imagine how rancid it would be without those years...

 

 

Jim's personality was Buffalonian

 

Marino screamed at his receiver for missing out on tough catches, which increased as he got old

 

 

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

Any thread that starts with "My cousin thinks..." is bound to be glorious.

[row_33]

11 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

Any thread that starts with "My cousin thinks..." is bound to be glorious.

 

it has amusing nutritional value at the very least

 

it's sure as hell beats "I've spent 367 days perfecting this spreadsheet on stats that nobody has thought of"

 

[um... yes they have, millions of people like you....]

 

 

 

[GETTOTHE50]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

What makes your dick so special?

 

Glad you asked.

 

it can break foldable tables... plus it’s fire proof 

[row_33]

2 hours ago, steven50 said:

 

100% agree.

Comparing quarterbacks now to quarterbacks in the past is impossible. The rule changes have been very slanted towards the offense and blowing on a QB hard now will get you a flag.

 

so i can stop hearing how Namath was horrible because the AFL of his day encouraged bombs at the expense of INTs?

 

 

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Brady is better than Kelly was but, as I stated in the Brady not greatest of all-time thread, I wholeheartedly believe that Brady would not have had the success in the 80's and 90's that he did today.  I think Montana or Marino in this Era would be as successful as Brady.  I don't think Brady is the clear cut number 1. 

[HT02]

I don't think you could make a case that Kelly is better than Brady but I think you could for Montana, Unitas, Marino and maybe Elway.

[DC Tom]

12 hours ago, NewEra said:

Yet, he IS the conversation.  He’s discussed by anyone that knows anyone about football as the best or if not the best, he’s in the conversation.  Every time.

 

 

 

He's not in the conversation because he's not even a football player, just a kitty who throws a ball.

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

The bolded is a very interesting perspective. I think that Brady has the talent to have got rid of the ball on time in those days, no problem at all. I do however think that he would have been beaten half to death by late hits. Players must pay these hefty fines themselves now so the late hits are less common.

Today, receivers own the middle. Jack Tatum, Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott, etc. owned it back in the day and that makes a huge difference.

 

I do however respectfully disagree about Marino being the best of all time.

I disagree. They did throw flags for late hits in the 80’s and 90’s. The legitimate hits ( which included shots to the chin with the helmet that were rarely if ever called) were a heck of a lot more vicious . There was no “ Brady rule” , the strike zone for a hitting a QB was much bigger and grounding wasn’t legalized until ‘93. NFL teams ran different style passing games, and as you wisely pointed out the middle of the field wasn’t for everybody. QB concussions were probably a lot more common. Brady’s career would have been a lot shorter. 

[klos63]

18 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

Brady is better than Kelly was but, as I stated in the Brady not greatest of all-time thread, I wholeheartedly believe that Brady would not have had the success in the 80's and 90's that he did today.  I think Montana or Marino in this Era would be as successful as Brady.  I don't think Brady is the clear cut number 1. 

Except for Montana and Bradshaw, has anyone played at such a high level in important games as Brady? In any era? 

[formerlyofCtown]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

The bolded is a very interesting perspective. I think that Brady has the talent to have got rid of the ball on time in those days, no problem at all. I do however think that he would have been beaten half to death by late hits. Players must pay these hefty fines themselves now so the late hits are less common.

Today, receivers own the middle. Jack Tatum, Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott, etc. owned it back in the day and that makes a huge difference.

 

I do however respectfully disagree about Marino being the best of all time.

How many HoF skill players around him.

[C.Biscuit97]

This is a thread that would only exist on a Bills board.  Those Bills teams had way more talented than those Pats teams.  Kelly was surrounded by HOFers. Minus Moss, Brady played with a bunch of Jags.  Also check Kelly’s postseason stats.  He kinda sucked in big games.  Brady just lost a SB where he passed for 400 yards.  Also if Kelly didn’t force throws in the 1st SB and just ran Thurman against a 2 man front, that game doesn’t come down to that kick.

 

im glad Kelly is recovering and has become a better man.  He’s the best Bills qb ever but isn’t even in the same conversation as Brady, who is a whiny tool but the best ever.

[row_33]

33 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is a thread that would only exist on a Bills board.  Those Bills teams had way more talented than those Pats teams.  Kelly was surrounded by HOFers. Minus Moss, Brady played with a bunch of Jags.  Also check Kelly’s postseason stats.  He kinda sucked in big games.  Brady just lost a SB where he passed for 400 yards.  Also if Kelly didn’t force throws in the 1st SB and just ran Thurman against a 2 man front, that game doesn’t come down to that kick.

 

im glad Kelly is recovering and has become a better man.  He’s the best Bills qb ever but isn’t even in the same conversation as Brady, who is a whiny tool but the best ever.

 

Agreed, Brady played with temps at WR and RB, with a few exceptions, and played outdoors to cut into his stats.

 

the AFC only gave Kelly one serious challenge, the Carlton Bailey tipped passed game against Denver.

 

 

 

[Billsfanatic8989]

4 hours ago, HT02 said:

I don't think you could make a case that Kelly is better than Brady but I think you could for Montana, Unitas, Marino and maybe Elway.

Yep. Football is a team sport. Frankly, Marino was never the reason his team didn't win a SB. Ditto Kelly. The only SB I thought Jim could've done more was the Giants. But, that was a team "effort". Parcells & Belichick took Marv & the Bills coaches to the woodshed.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Billsfanatic8989

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

18 hours ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

My cousin thinks Brady is not better than Kelly. The reason is: A) Kelly was more mobile. B) Belichick is a better coach than Levy. C) 4 straight SB appearances. D)

Deflategate/Spygate

 

Can any case be made Kelly is just as good, if not better, than Brady? Jim played in an era that wasn't as kind to Qb's.

 

Not really much of a case.

 

Kelly wasn’t even the greatest in his era, meaning, Elway, Marino, Montana, Young, Farve and Manning, maybe even Moon would all need to be  considered better than Brady too. 

 

Thats not selling anywhere 

[Troll Toll]

So much ESPN brainwash in this thread. Matt Cassell stepped in and was BETTER than Brady in that system, yet was a total scrub on other teams. The system revolves around cheating and on any other team TODAY (let alone past eras) Brady would look like a scrub. Peyton would have at least 10-15 Super Bowls if he played in that system and had the benefit of all that cheating. Any success related to that team under Bellicheck is meaningless.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Troll Toll

[frostbitmic]

I don't want the face of my franchise, my QB, to be a whiny little female dog.

 

I'd take Jim Kelly 10 x out of 10 against whiny B word Brady.

[PlayoffsPlease]

Jim Kelly the guy, over Tom Brady the guy.  Tom Brady's results over Jim Kelly's results. 

[Roundybout]

20 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Johnny Unitas is the best to ever play.  Brady isn't even in that conversation.

 

Otto Graham is the best ever to play. Brady isnt even in that conversation.

[DC Tom]

5 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Otto Graham is the best ever to play. Brady isnt even in that conversation.

 

Bite your tongue, heretic!  Johnny U was a man among boys.  Otto may have invented the modern QB position, but Johnny U perfected it, then invented the two minute drill, and personally unseated baseball as the nation's pastime.

 

Graham may have invented the position.  Unitas invented football.

[PlayoffsPlease]

24 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Bite your tongue, heretic!  Johnny U was a man among boys.  Otto may have invented the modern QB position, but Johnny U perfected it, then invented the two minute drill, and personally unseated baseball as the nation's pastime.

 

Graham may have invented the position.  Unitas invented football.

Broadway Joe upended baseball, not Johnny U.