Fiction - Taylor made Oline look better

[Hebert19]

I've read people make this statement a few times in different posts and thought it deserved a thread.  First off this is B.S. in my opinion.  I think he made the line lool worse.  Why you ask?

 

1.  Since 2016 Taylor has had the highest time to throw in NFL.  Meaning he holds the ball the longest.  

 

2.  He almost never throws the ball at the top of his dropback.  He never anticipates the throw and rarely throws based on timing.   Instead he waits for people to get open causing dline to get pressure and fans who don't understand things say wow...he saved a sack there but instead if the ball came out on time there would be no pressure at all. 

 

3.  Taylor's footwork was/is terrible.  Instead of stepping up in the pocket (which was solid due to wood and Ritchie most of the time) he moved into where the defense was a lot. 

 

For these reasons a QB who can throw with anticipation and has better mobility within the pocket will make the oline look much better.  

 

Discuss. 

[Ramza86]

I think its both. There were plenty of times where a simple climb would have avoided sack/pressure/negative outcome. 

 

I think plenty of times he evaded a sack that would have been caused by poor blocking. 

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

I think its both. There were plenty of times where a simple climb would have avoided sack/pressure/negative outcome. 

 

I think plenty of times he evaded a sack that would have been caused by poor blocking. 

I agree. For all the sack he ran into, he also made inhuman athletic plays to escape sacks as well. Lets hope our new QB can compensate for what he lacks in escapeability with getting the ball out on time. 

[BillsFan130]

Can we discuss the o line without Tyrod being involved? Lol.

 

The talking/arguing has finally stopped and it’s been beautiful.

 

Just talking about the o line, I think the Bills need to address RT and especially a guard in the draft.

 

I still think o line is a bit of a weakness for them and they need to improve at a few spots.

[Buffalo Boy]

Two things :

     Use the past tense, he is no longer here.

     I think that loop de loop footwork he constantly did was actually pretty tricky?

     Otherwise, I agree with you 1000 percent.

     Was a bum, is a bum, always will be a bum!!!

[Lurker]

9 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

I've read people make this statement a few times in different posts and thought it deserved a thread.  First off this is B.S. in my opinion. 

 

Who are you...Donald Trump?    ("A lot of people say...")

 

I've never heard anyone say TT made the line look better.    If someone did, it is not a widely-shared POV IMO...

[buffalostu2]

13 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

I've read people make this statement a few times in different posts and thought it deserved a thread.  First off this is B.S. in my opinion.  I think he made the line lool worse.  Why you ask?

 

1.  Since 2016 Taylor has had the highest time to throw in NFL.  Meaning he holds the ball the longest.  

 

2.  He almost never throws the ball at the top of his dropback.  He never anticipates the throw and rarely throws based on timing.   Instead he waits for people to get open causing dline to get pressure and fans who don't understand things say wow...he saved a sack there but instead if the ball came out on time there would be no pressure at all. 

 

3.  Taylor's footwork was/is terrible.  Instead of stepping up in the pocket (which was solid due to wood and Ritchie most of the time) he moved into where the defense was a lot. 

 

For these reasons a QB who can throw with anticipation and has better mobility within the pocket will make the oline look much better.  

 

Discuss. 

What about when Peterman was in there?

[CuddyDark]

Teams have to spy Tyrod so the player who would blitz or play in short zones is taken out of the game. Tyrod makes teams play 11v10.

[Misterbluesky]

It's obvious the sack totals would have been much higher if not for TT 's elusiveness,the guy ran around out there like a petrified buck during the opening day of hunting season.No worries...they signed Newhouse .

[BuffaloBillyG]

Why are we still talking about Taylor? He's Cleveland's issue now.

[Kirby Jackson]

I would venture to say that Tyrod made more plays where a guy got beat than sacks he took for holding the ball too long. That was his game and always will be though. It’s the same thing that Ben and Russell Wilson try to do. They try to keep plays alive as long as they can. There are a ton of plays that Tyrod made when someone else would have thrown it away or taken a sack. It is hard to quantify without re-watching every play but that’s the intuitive sense I get. I am confident that there are more of those situations than sacks that he took that others wouldn’t have (and I’ll bet it is close to 2:1). 

 

The other thing is that he often required a spy  allowing more space to work for the RBs and one less guy on the receivers. These are subtle advantages that never get mentioned but will change (unless Lamar is the guy). 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

Review the tape of the game versus the LA Chargers.

 

Then note that the Chargers D didn't have 150 sacks or force 800 pressures and 160 turnovers last season.

 

Teams approach rushing the passer differently when they know the QB can gash them for huge plays with his feet.

 

If the NFL didn't know........they found out in that Titans game in 2015........and once teams saw him win that game with his feet he never really saw an all-out pass rush again.

 

The team that's thanking the stars for TT being out of the division is Miami.........they built this pass rushing DL and Taylor rendered it pretty pointless in their games.

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Why are we still talking about Taylor? He's Cleveland's issue now.

 

I believe the OP is saying that the OL is better than some of us think.

 

[slaphappy]

Matt Stafford and Brissett are the only 2 QB's who got sacked more than Tyrod..how good was he making the line look? 

[Sig1Hunter]

How much of the "time to throw" metric was influenced by Tyrods ability to avoid the sack? I'd argue that it influenced it a lot, and therefore that metric is a misnomer. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Sig1Hunter

[CuddyDark]

3 minutes ago, slaphappy said:

Matt Stafford and Brissett are the only 2 QB's who got sacked more than Tyrod..how good was he making the line look? 

Very. Also Tyrod ran out of bounds behind the line a lot which is also counted as a sack.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

20 minutes ago, buffalostu2 said:

What about when Peterman was in there?

 

He strategically has a super quick release to give himself time to get into position to make the tackle. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

Very. Also Tyrod ran out of bounds behind the line a lot which is also counted as a sack.

Then that's 100% Tyrod's fault.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

I've missed these taylor threads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bangarang]

Are we still fighting about former QBs? I still have some unresolved issues with Vince Young’s time here.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

I've missed these taylor threads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did too.  

[Malazan]

I didn't know this was a belief held by real people.

[JESSEFEFFER]

A sack avoided in the first 2.5 seconds of the play was often due to Tyrod (so he made them look good) and sacks taken much longer than that were often due to Tyrod (not getting the ball out and making them look bad.)  Therefore, as sack statistics go, probably trending toward a wash.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

37 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

I've read people make this statement a few times in different posts and thought it deserved a thread.  First off this is B.S. in my opinion.  I think he made the line lool worse.  Why you ask?

 

1.  Since 2016 Taylor has had the highest time to throw in NFL.  Meaning he holds the ball the longest.  

 

2.  He almost never throws the ball at the top of his dropback.  He never anticipates the throw and rarely throws based on timing.   Instead he waits for people to get open causing dline to get pressure and fans who don't understand things say wow...he saved a sack there but instead if the ball came out on time there would be no pressure at all. 

 

3.  Taylor's footwork was/is terrible.  Instead of stepping up in the pocket (which was solid due to wood and Ritchie most of the time) he moved into where the defense was a lot. 

 

For these reasons a QB who can throw with anticipation and has better mobility within the pocket will make the oline look much better.  

 

Discuss. 

 

Re:1

 

in 2017 3 QBs exceeded 3 seconds tiny to throw.

 

Taylor: 3.01

Wilson:  3.05

Watson: 3.1

 

No chance the average is skewed due to mobility extending plays right? 

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

Good pocket QB's know how to buy time in the pocket and read the defenses and get the ball out on time. Not every play should be a school yard run around and try to find an open guy on the side of the field you were pushed into and either get sacked or throw the ball away. The few times that running around worked it looked cool and was rather entertaining. The rest of the time when you could see wide open receivers down the field getting frustrated because he was too slow on his progressions it cost us allot of games. I think for the most part he made our Oline look worse than it was and I know that right side guard and tackle are subpar to begin with.

[Alphadawg7]

42 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

I've read people make this statement a few times in different posts and thought it deserved a thread.  First off this is B.S. in my opinion.  I think he made the line lool worse.  Why you ask?

 

1.  Since 2016 Taylor has had the highest time to throw in NFL.  Meaning he holds the ball the longest.  

 

2.  He almost never throws the ball at the top of his dropback.  He never anticipates the throw and rarely throws based on timing.   Instead he waits for people to get open causing dline to get pressure and fans who don't understand things say wow...he saved a sack there but instead if the ball came out on time there would be no pressure at all. 

 

3.  Taylor's footwork was/is terrible.  Instead of stepping up in the pocket (which was solid due to wood and Ritchie most of the time) he moved into where the defense was a lot. 

 

For these reasons a QB who can throw with anticipation and has better mobility within the pocket will make the oline look much better.  

 

Discuss. 

 

The OL was terrible, just look at any time Peterman was on the field.  They got through the OL like a revolving door.  When teams committed to going after Taylor too (like the Jets game for instance) instead of trying to defend against his running threat, they easily got through the line.

 

You leave that CRITICAL part out in your assessment,which is how other teams accounted for Taylor running and using spies and not going after him as much as they could.  Not to mention, a big part of him holding the ball long as impacted by how often he had to run for his life as the DL was often in the backfield before he even completed the drop back. 

 

Taylor has his own flaws about holding the ball, no denying that.  But you have grossly overlooked the D coordinator scheming to defend against him taking off.  When the DC decided to come at TT or when NP was in there, they got though with ease.  

 

IMO our OL was not good at pass protection and has only degraded in the offseason.  I expect at least two offensive line draft picks in the first 6 picks if we dont spend all the picks to move up.  And personally we need it or whoever is back there this year is going to have a long season.  

Edited March 20, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[TOboy]

I agree with the "both" theory, but I lean more towards him negatively impacting the line, or at least the perception of the line. He consistently held the ball longer, creating more pressures and more sacks. Yes, he absolutely made some dynamic plays that probably no other man on the planet could make in avoiding the rush, but he was often the cause of the situation. 

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

The OL was terrible, just look at any time Peterman was on the field.  They got through the OL like a revolving door.  When teams committed to going after Taylor too (like the Jets game for instance) instead of trying to defend against his running threat, they easily got through the line.

 

You leave out a CRITICAL part in your assessment, and that is how other teams accounted for Taylor running and using spies and not going after him as much as they could.  Not to mention, a big part of him holding the ball long as impacted by how often he had to run for his life as the DL was often in the backfield before he even completed the drop back. 

 

Taylor has his own flaws about holding the ball, no denying that.  But you have grossly overlooked the D coordinator scheming to defend against him taking off.  When the DC decided to come at TT or when NP was in there, they got though with ease.  

 

IMO our OL was not good at pass protection and has only degraded in the offseason.  I expect at least two offensive line draft picks in the first 6 picks if we dont spend all the picks to move up.  And personally we need it or whoever is back there this year is going to have a long season.  

He and or Peterman did not know how to set their protections and he didn't ever audible out of plays making him vulnerable to aggressive defensive game planning could be on QB or OC not sure how that honestly worked.

[Tyrod's friend]

42 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

I've read people make this statement a few times in different posts and thought it deserved a thread.  First off this is B.S. in my opinion.  I think he made the line lool worse.  Why you ask?

 

1.  Since 2016 Taylor has had the highest time to throw in NFL.  Meaning he holds the ball the longest.  

 

2.  He almost never throws the ball at the top of his dropback.  He never anticipates the throw and rarely throws based on timing.   Instead he waits for people to get open causing dline to get pressure and fans who don't understand things say wow...he saved a sack there but instead if the ball came out on time there would be no pressure at all. 

 

3.  Taylor's footwork was/is terrible.  Instead of stepping up in the pocket (which was solid due to wood and Ritchie most of the time) he moved into where the defense was a lot. 

 

For these reasons a QB who can throw with anticipation and has better mobility within the pocket will make the oline look much better.  

 

Discuss. 

So we are going to have this discussion and leave a terrible WR group out of the conversation? Leaving aside Kelvin Benjamin, you had some pretty terrible ball catchers last year. Logan Thomas is bloody QB acting like he can play TE out there. 

Look ... it's like my baseball team. There's no problem having a Gold Glove CFer that can't hit the ball out there ... providing you have 7 other positional players that can actually hit the ball. You can't give extensive time to the likes of Logan Thomas and Zay Jones and for most of the year have KJ not even playing and the rest of the WR being basically cast offs.

Eventually, you need talent at WR. In the words of a beautiful wife ... he can't throw the ball and catch it.

[The Jokeman]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

The OL was terrible, just look at any time Peterman was on the field.  They got through the OL like a revolving door.  When teams committed to going after Taylor too (like the Jets game for instance) instead of trying to defend against his running threat, they easily got through the line.

 

You leave that CRITICAL part out in your assessment,which is how other teams accounted for Taylor running and using spies and not going after him as much as they could.  Not to mention, a big part of him holding the ball long as impacted by how often he had to run for his life as the DL was often in the backfield before he even completed the drop back. 

 

Taylor has his own flaws about holding the ball, no denying that.  But you have grossly overlooked the D coordinator scheming to defend against him taking off.  When the DC decided to come at TT or when NP was in there, they got though with ease.  

 

IMO our OL was not good at pass protection and has only degraded in the offseason.  I expect at least two offensive line draft picks in the first 6 picks if we dont spend all the picks to move up.  And personally we need it or whoever is back there this year is going to have a long season.  

Peterman was sacked 1 time in 49 pass attempts by contrast in his first three seasons Tyrod was sacked 5 times in his first 35 pass attempts. Does that say anything?

[CuddyDark]

18 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Then that's 100% Tyrod's fault.

Unless the pocket was destroyed and Tyrod tried to run but had nowhere to go. All I'm saying the OP is wrong when he says the change from Tyrod to a Rookie and the two we have is negligible. It's worse for at least this year.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

Unless the pocket was destroyed and Tyrod tried to run but had nowhere to go. All I'm saying the OP is wrong when he says the change from Tyrod to a Rookie and the two we have is negligible. It's worse for at least this year.

 

If he had nowhere to go, how did he get out of bounds?

[CuddyDark]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

If he had nowhere to go, how did he get out of bounds?

Speed.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, CuddyDark said:

Speed.

 

So it was a better idea to get outside the pocket and not throw it away but instead decided to run out of bounds for a sack?

[CuddyDark]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So it was a better idea to get outside the pocket and not throw it away but instead decided to run out of bounds for a sack?

But this infers you think I believe Tyrod was a great QB and I don't. Tyrod covered up a lot of failing because he could run.

[Teddy KGB]

Tyrod sucks.    He’s with a suckier team now.  

 

Forward ! 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, CuddyDark said:

But this infers you think I believe Tyrod was a great QB and I don't. Tyrod covered up a lot of failing because he could run.

 

No and that's not was I was trying to say.  

Tyrod's legs did cover some weaknesses of the OL.  But he also contributed to them looking worse.  He holds the ball way too long, way too many times.

[CuddyDark]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

No and that's not was I was trying to say.  

Tyrod's legs did cover some weaknesses of the OL.  But he also contributed to them looking worse.  He holds the ball way too long, way too many times.

4-12 is my prediction.

[MJS]

I'm trying to think of a play where he ever climbed the pocket to make a throw. I remember him scrambling up the middle.

 

In my opinion, you can't succeed in the NFL if you can't climb the pocket to make throws. Some QB's do this automatically, which is why pressure up the middle is so devestating for almost every QB.

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

4-12 is my prediction.

For the Bills?