Post-Combine QB Poll

[DCOrange]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

Accuracy and completion percentage aren't the same thing. 

 

None of them were inaccurate college passers. 

 

Inaccurate college QBs include: EJ Manuel, Jake Locker, Josh Freeman, Vince Young and JP Losman. 

 

I know it's not; that's why I said kinda Matt Ryan. His completion percentage would suggest he was absolutely inaccurate but it was more spotty accuracy rather than legitimately inaccurate for him. Stafford and Cam were definitely inaccurate despite Cam's stats suggesting otherwise.

[HiddenInLight]

Just now, KelsaysLunchbox said:

Well, no matter who they draft they have to tailor the offense to their skillset somewhat anyhow. This is something I've read (but admitting I don't have first hand knowledge of) that Daboll does really well. If a shorter guy needs more snaps out of shotgun, so be it. I believe McCoy ran better out of shotgun anyways.

 

 

 

Honestly I'm with you on that, I was just saying that perhaps Beane prefers a more standard prototypical pocket passer this time around.  I don't have too much of a problem with Mayfield, especially with guys like Brees and Wilson in the league who are doing well even though they are shorter.  The comment on mobile was more towards a Lamar Jackson type guy.  Guys like Darnold and Rosen are your more prototypical guys, but I like Rosen better than Darnold beause I think he is more NFL ready, which is why he is my QB prospect of choice.

[jrober38]

7 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

I know it's not; that's why I said kinda Matt Ryan. His completion percentage would suggest he was absolutely inaccurate but it was more spotty accuracy rather than legitimately inaccurate for him. Stafford and Cam were definitely inaccurate despite Cam's stats suggesting otherwise.

 

Stafford's scouting report disagrees:

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/matthew-stafford?id=79860

 

"Consistent with excellent accuracy to all levels of the field. ... Consistent placing the deep out on the far shoulder of his receiver, away from the defender. ... Has good deep accuracy and trajectory."

 

Matt Ryan:

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/matt-ryan?id=310

 

"Very accurate passer when flushed out of the pocket, but has the strength to step up and absorb punishment... Very good game manager who has the pinpoint accuracy to put the ball into tight areas and keeps the receivers in their routes, doing a nice job of hitting them out of the breaks..."

 

Cam I'll concede. His fundamentals were all over the place in college and he still struggles with it in the NFL. 

Edited March 6, 2018 by jrober38

[buffaloboyinATL]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Everyone voting Allen.

 

Why?

 

Legit question.

 

And if you're argument is arm strength and measurables alone... may I refer you to former top overall pick for the Oakland Raiders Jamarcuss Russell?

I voted Allen because I think he has the highest ceiling of all of this years QB's. It is ridiculous to compare Allen to Russell, just like it is ridiculous to compare Mayfield to Manziel.  Those 2 QB's failed for personal reasons off of the football field, not because they lacked talent. If you make that comparison, ANY of them could fail because of drugs, booze, bad work ethic etc...

 

In my opinion, there is not a single QB in this class who is guaranteed not to be a bust, including Darnold.  They all have red flags, and yes, Allen's accuracy is a concern, but IF he can be coached up and improve his mechanics and vision, he has the most upside of the bunch. And yes, I know that is a big if...

[dpberr]

Give me the guy with the highest completion percentage that's north of 60%.  

[transplantbillsfan]

41 minutes ago, 707BillsFan said:

I wasn't aware Allen played a down in the NFL yet. Nothing will be proven until he gets on the field. Everything at this point is speculation, on Allen and the rest of these QB's. You don't know any more than anyone else how these guys will turn out. So let people have their opinions. Jeez I can't wait for the draft to be over. 

 

You seem upset.

 

Why?

[Tatonka68]

Mason Rudolph, Nate Peterman, Joe Webb II

[Reed83HOF]

45 minutes ago, KelsaysLunchbox said:

I'd still take him over Peterman.

I'd take him over TT

[LabattBlue]

I’m all in on Mayfield?  Do whatever it takes to get him!   ?

[Dr. Who]

3 hours ago, HiddenInLight said:

 

Honestly, Allen gives me EJ flashbacks in a really bad way.  Mayfield is a very good prospect, but I think Rosen is the guy that will be the better QB long term.  Pocket passers tend to stick around longer in the NFL then the more mobile guys like Mayfield.  If I'm choosing between Mayfield, Rosen, and Allen, I take Rosen 100% of the time.

And yet one of the big question marks about Rosen appears to be durability.  Mayock kept mentioning pocket awareness as something Rosen lacks.  I still think Rosen worth strong consideration, but Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold is my order of preference.  I just hope we can move up and get one of the big three.

[purple haze]

I voted Darnold.  Strong arm, mobile, can move in the pocket and still make a great throw.  I hate how sloppy he is with the rock though.   He will give it away.

 

Rosen will be in the pocket.  He's not giving a team the option of running.  And his concussions/injuries are concerning.

 

Mayfield has a lot to like, but at his height I don't know.  He's not as strong armed or athletic as Wilson or Bree's.  

 

Allen has great potential but that accuracy...  if he improves that then he's John Elway, Jr.

 

Jackson at 21 would be my choice if he were available.  Can do multiple things to help a team win.  The accuracy is a concern, but he dominated at times and he played against a consistently higher level of competition than Allen.

[Jay_Fixit]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Stafford's scouting report disagrees:

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/matthew-stafford?id=79860

 

"Consistent with excellent accuracy to all levels of the field. ... Consistent placing the deep out on the far shoulder of his receiver, away from the defender. ... Has good deep accuracy and trajectory."

 

Matt Ryan:

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/matt-ryan?id=310

 

"Very accurate passer when flushed out of the pocket, but has the strength to step up and absorb punishment... Very good game manager who has the pinpoint accuracy to put the ball into tight areas and keeps the receivers in their routes, doing a nice job of hitting them out of the breaks..."

 

Cam I'll concede. His fundamentals were all over the place in college and he still struggles with it in the NFL. 

And Cam still isn’t an accurate QB.

 

19 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

And yet one of the big question marks about Rosen appears to be durability.  Mayock kept mentioning pocket awareness as something Rosen lacks.  I still think Rosen worth strong consideration, but Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold is my order of preference.  I just hope we can move up and get one of the big three.

Funny, because Rosen is a statue. So his lack of pocket awareness and inability to avoid pressure are going to be a problem.

[PrimeTime101]

4 hours ago, cd1 said:

Nick Foles...

we are not getting Foles.. Give it a rest

[cd1]

13 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

we are not getting Foles.. Give it a rest

 

Nick Foles...

[Rockinon]

I like Rosen. He gets the ball out quick and places the ball so the receiver can make a move without getting tackled immediately.  Don't know about durability but it stands to reason that if he is getting rid of the ball quick he is less likely to get hurt.  Plus, pocket passers still rule the NFL.

[yungmack]

6 times as many people pick Mayfield over Darnold, nearly twice as many prefer Allen, and he's picked even with...Jackson? Ei yi yi, the circus is in town.

[707BillsFan]

5 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

When was the last time an inaccurate college QB succeeded in the NFL?

Jim Kelly was 55%. I could care less what this kid did in college, and the same goes for all the others. We don't know how that'll translate to the NFL. 

[swnybillsfan]

had to vote for rosen. kid seems to be a great talent, and i love his passion for life in general. he seems to want to leave his mark off the field, and feels the best way to do that is to build a reputation kicking @$$ on the football field. 

[707BillsFan]

4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You seem upset.

 

Why?

Not upset at all. I love armchair QB's that think they can predict the future, but sit in their parents basement while updating their indeed resume so they can get that spring time car wash job. 

[jrober38]

4 minutes ago, 707BillsFan said:

Jim Kelly was 55%. I could care less what this kid did in college, and the same goes for all the others. We don't know how that'll translate to the NFL. 

 

Jim Kelly played in college 35 years ago.

 

Assuming we don't know is ignorance. The history of QBs with accuracy problems who failed in the NFL is extremely long over the past 20 years. It's not a flaw that modern day QBs overcome. 

 

Predicting QB success isn't hard. Just focus on the guys who completely dominated college football and ignore the guys who were middle of the pack QBs in the Mountain West Conference. 

Edited March 7, 2018 by jrober38

[707BillsFan]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Jim Kelly played in college 35 years ago.

 

Assuming we don't know is ignorance. The history of QBs with accuracy problems who failed in the NFL is extremely long over the past 20 years. It's not a flaw that modern day QBs overcome. 

I looked up one QB and that QB had a 55% completion %.  Enough for me. I will go on record as saying, Allen will have a better NFL career than JaMarcus Russell...the person he was compared to in this tread. 

[jrober38]

Just now, 707BillsFan said:

I looked up one QB and that QB had a 55% completion %.  Enough for me. I will go on record as saying, Allen will have a better NFL career than JaMarcus Russell...the person he was compared to in this tread. 

 

Way to go out on a limb.

[707BillsFan]

8 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Way to go out on a limb.

That's why I responded earlier. He was compared to Russell. Like I said, how do we know how these kids will pan out. It's asinine to assume such a thing...or even say such a thing. Matt Ryan was like 59% completion, the next one I looked up. Russell Wilson was a 50% passer until he transferred. 

Edited March 7, 2018 by 707BillsFan

[jrober38]

13 minutes ago, 707BillsFan said:

That's why I responded earlier. He was compared to Russell. Like I said, how do we know how these kids will pan out. It's asinine to assume such a thing...or even say such a thing. Matt Ryan was like 59% completion, the next one I looked up. Russell Wilson was a 50% passer until he transferred. 

 

For the one millionth time, completion percentage has nothing to do with accuracy.

 

Accuracy is the ability to throw the ball to a spot consistently. All good NFL QBs can do that. 

 

Allen, like EJ Manuel, has scattershot accuracy. Sometimes he misses high, sometimes he's low, sometimes he's in front of the target, and sometimes he's behind it. He misses all over the place, just like EJ did. There's no predicting where he'll miss, which makes fixing his accuracy nearly impossible. 

 

Guys with that flaw never succeed in the NFL. You can't teach someone the fundamentals of throwing a football once they're in the NFL. 

[transplantbillsfan]

38 minutes ago, 707BillsFan said:

Not upset at all. I love armchair QB's that think they can predict the future, but sit in their parents basement while updating their indeed resume so they can get that spring time car wash job. 

 

Yep... clearly you're upset...

 

 

 

 

 

 

or Josh Allen's mommy.

[Putin]

7 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

We can get any QB.  Who would your pick be??

Baker Mayfield 

[billspro]

Darnold is my number 1 so I would hope for him. 

 

Rosen has durability concerns which is the main reason I have him at number 2. 

[SouthNYfan]

7 hours ago, HiddenInLight said:

 

By "Dealing with Newton" I meant tailoring an offence around a mobile guy.  By dealing with Taylor I meant dealing with a guy that doesn't have that prototypical NFL size (and also likes to scramble).  Both are the types that you need to tailor your offense around their needs.  A smaller guy may need to roll out of the pocket or take more snaps out of shotgun.  I'm not saying that he can't succeed, I'm just saying that it is a much harder task for a guy of his size.

 

Because "tailoring" an offense to a short QB has been so terrible for New Orleans and Seattle, right?

 

 

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yep... clearly you're upset...

 

 

 

 

 

 

or Josh Allen's mommy.

 

I bet Allen's mom can air it out 70 yards on the fly from her rocking chair

[SouthNYfan]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

For the one millionth time, completion percentage has nothing to do with accuracy.

 

Accuracy is the ability to throw the ball to a spot consistently. All good NFL QBs can do that. 

 

Allen, like EJ Manuel, has scattershot accuracy. Sometimes he misses high, sometimes he's low, sometimes he's in front of the target, and sometimes he's behind it. He misses all over the place, just like EJ did. There's no predicting where he'll miss, which makes fixing his accuracy nearly impossible. 

 

Guys with that flaw never succeed in the NFL. You can't teach someone the fundamentals of throwing a football once they're in the NFL. 

 

I don't know enough about Allen to agree that he's scattered all over, but I will say that I do agree with you about the scattered accuracy being very tough to fix, as it's hard to pin down a single flaw to work on.

This is true of MLB pitchers and NBA players as well.

 

For anybody familiar with the NBA, Dwight Howard was a good example.

Compete physical freak of nature with very little natural basketball talent.

His post moves/shots and free throws would miss all over the place, his mechanics had so many flaws, and you could tell the more you watched and the more he played, that he was nothing but a freak physical specimen who was convinced to play b-ball because of his athleticism, not because he was any good at it.

Ultimately, when he hurt his back, and that sapped him of his massive athletic advantage, he became nothing more than an average at best, unreliable player.

 

That's my fear with Allen, Jackson too.

The upside is both seem to have great heads on their shoulders, and both seem to be very happy in the film room, dedicated to working at improving.

That's a very good thing.

I'm just not sure it'll be enough, they're both a big risk.

[Green Lightning]

9 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

I like Mayfield. 

 

He's the most accurate passer in the draft and accuracy trumps everything else when it comes to QBs. 

 

Same here. Accuracy plus a burning will to win. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Mayfield or bust, great skill set, great determination, great QB.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Josh Rosen.  It's still not that close to me even after he had a shaky combine throwing session.  

 

Option 1 - Rosen in a big trade up;

Option 1A - Darnold in a big trade up but think he goes #1;

Option 2 - Mayfield in a smaller trade up;

Option 3 - Rudolph if they stand pat at 21;

Option 4 - Jackson if they stand pat at 21;

[smuvtalker]

14 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I get what you are saying, and a fair point about the pocket he was working from.  However, I think "batted passes at the LOS" is one of the most over exaggerated phrases in all of football.  One, its not something that happens a lot and Baker is not so short that he will suffer them on a regular basis.  If Baker was like 5'9" then this has more merit.  

 

If Baker is a good QB, then it wont matter if he leads the league in batted down passes...you are talking about a handful of throws out of hundreds of pass attempts in a season.  If he is good when its not batted down, then it wont matter if he leads the league in batted down passes at the LOS.  

 

Also, if Baker is 2 inches taller, it really doesn't change the likely hood of a batted pass at the LOS.  Most passes are thrown, even by the bigger QB's through an area that any of the DL can easily reach to bat away.  Batted passes come from awareness more than size at the NFL level.  EJ was huge and got a lot of passes batted down.  Watch any tape on any QB, and there passes zip past out reached arms, not ABOVE them unless its a high arc deeper pass.  

 

The biggest challenge to a shorter QB is about seeing the field and vision behind the bigger bodies way more so than worrying about a defended at the LOS knocking it down.  But you can account for that with deeper drops, rolling them out, etc if need be, and just watch film on Brees and see how they make up for that.  

 

So this is why I am not concerned about Baker...if he is a truly good QB, his height will not be hinderance.  

As always Alpha, well-stated and excellent points regarding % of batted down balls vs hundreds of throws, and about passes zipping PAST DL arms and not above them.

 

The closer we get to the draft, I honestly feel the only two QBs worth trading up to get are Mayfield and Rosen, and staying put at 21 I have fully warmed to the idea of Jackson.  

 

This is shaping up to be the most exciting draft in easily 30+ years....

[dollars 2 donuts]

15 hours ago, Paulus said:

Darnold is by far the best, but it ain't happening (#1 overall). Feasibly the best QB is Mayfield, IMHO. 

 

Full discloure, I picked Mayfield, but also like Rosen.

 

That said, man, if Barkley goes number 1 and the Giants say they are set with Eli the opportunity for a boat load of picks will be hard for the G Men to pass up because teams will most likely want that shot at Darnold (due to the fact that he checks many boxes and there don't appear to be any "issues").

[GunnerBill]

15 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

You could be right, but I would be VERY surprised if Rudolph lasts past the 2nd round. To me, he's a perfect fit for NE to develop behind Brady. I hate to say it, but he's a Brady in waiting for a team like NE. 

 

 

I could see New England - but I don't think that would be round 1, he would have to be there for them in round 2 for that to happen.  Brady had Jimmy G run out of town because he didn't want a successor over his shoulder.  His mate Bob won't allow them to just replace that with a Quarterback drafted in round 1.

 

I think Pittsburgh however is a really good fit.  Like New England their offense has a lot of spread concepts in it that Mason Rudolph will find very familiar and very comfortable.  Big Ben talks retirement every year and it is not as if the Steelers roster has gaping holes at other spots that they simply can't ignore.  I think they can afford the luxury pick of a QB.  One that fits their system and can sit behind Big Ben.  I mocked him there in my mock v1.0 the other week and I have seen two credible mockers follow suit since.  I'll keep an eye on whether Pittsburgh has him in for a visit.  

 

 

[Victory Formation]

I pick Sam Darnold, he needs a year on the bench though. I think he is the safest QB in the draft, reminds me a lot of Tony Romo. Josh Allen could be the best QB in the draft, but he is way too risky to trade up for so I choose Sam Darnold.

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I could see New England - but I don't think that would be round 1, he would have to be there for them in round 2 for that to happen.  Brady had Jimmy G run out of town because he didn't want a successor over his shoulder.  His mate Bob won't allow them to just replace that with a Quarterback drafted in round 1.

 

I think Pittsburgh however is a really good fit.  Like New England their offense has a lot of spread concepts in it that Mason Rudolph will find very familiar and very comfortable.  Big Ben talks retirement every year and it is not as if the Steelers roster has gaping holes at other spots that they simply can't ignore.  I think they can afford the luxury pick of a QB.  One that fits their system and can sit behind Big Ben.  I mocked him there in my mock v1.0 the other week and I have seen two credible mockers follow suit since.  I'll keep an eye on whether Pittsburgh has him in for a visit.  

If I had to identify a floor for Rudolph in the draft it would be pick 48 by the Los Angeles Chargers. I don't see him making it past that pick, but I could see him going earlier. I don't see him going before pick 21 either. That's his range for me. Somewhere between picks 21 and 48.

[CommonCents]

18 hours ago, Paulus said:

Darnold is by far the best, but it ain't happening (#1 overall). Feasibly the best QB is Mayfield, IMHO. 

I think Darnold goes #1 but I don't see him as the best of the bunch. I'd go Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, Jackson, Allen.

 

Im leaning towards Mayfield for the Bills, it just makes sense. 

[Paulus]

2 hours ago, Commonsense said:

I think Darnold goes #1 but I don't see him as the best of the bunch. I'd go Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, Jackson, Allen.

 

Im leaning towards Mayfield for the Bills, it just makes sense. 

I see him as the best QB, by far... I guess, we just have to wait to see who is right. 

[707BillsFan]

15 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yep... clearly you're upset...

 

 

 

 

 

 

or Josh Allen's mommy.

So tell me how someone like Baker Mayfield will be the Bills savior? I personally want Rosen, but don't understand the hatred toward someone we have no idea how he'll pan out. Also, I'm doing a study...does your parents basement have black mold? 

Edited March 7, 2018 by 707BillsFan