Lfod Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: Implicit in the argument is actually drafting a franchise qb. Obviously, there is risk, but what we have is not good enough. You are correct. The post was directed more at drafting. I really have no strong opinions other than if they trade up I hope they are right because it's doom if not. No one can explain away using multiple picks to move up and not landing the franchise QB. Also this is Buffalo so I am assuming most likely that rookie starts sooner then later because we will have a same type of year dumpster diving for a QB to play bridge unless it's Tyrod and a whole year of is he good enough debate. Coach has already made the call to throw in a rookie early. Second time this happens and its the wrong call it will get ugly fast I think. No matter how it plays out. If I agree or not I will hope for the best. Edited November 21, 2017 by Lfod 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 21 minutes ago, Lfod said: My hot take is you build around Tyrod and Shady with every last pick you got. Not against getting a QB in the draft but trading up and getting the wrong guy would be very ugly. I don't think people ever ask themselves in a realistic way how they would feel if we traded up and got a horrible QB. If I am being honest that would be almost refreshing if it failed. The 2010 season we knew was a dumpster fire going into and the last time I had pretty much zero expectations going into it. If we draft a QB and they flame out well he ain't the guy and we probably are drafting Top 5 for the next guy. It has been awful in a sense to go 6-7 years now of being 5-5 now or 4-5 or 5-6 etc.. and know we have the slimmest playoff chance but it does exist only to of course miss. To me if they go for broke and go broke at least I know where we stand, this has been worse in a certain sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 15 hours ago, JaCrispy said: I disagree...we could use the extra picks to get the QB- let him sit for a year...we will likely have a top 5 pick in 2019 due to not being able to fill holes in 2018...we then trade that top 5 pick for a kings ransom to help build the rest of the team- similar to what SF will be doing this year Here's a guy who gets it. Nothing else matters if you don't get a QB. Literally nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, corta765 said: If I am being honest that would be almost refreshing if it failed. The 2010 season we knew was a dumpster fire going into and the last time I had pretty much zero expectations going into it. If we draft a QB and they flame out well he ain't the guy and we probably are drafting Top 5 for the next guy. It has been awful in a sense to go 6-7 years now of being 5-5 now or 4-5 or 5-6 etc.. and know we have the slimmest playoff chance but it does exist only to of course miss. To me if they go for broke and go broke at least I know where we stand, this has been worse in a certain sense. Fortune favors the bold. I know that sitting on your hands isn't an answer either. I definitely would not be against trading up if the proper home work is done. I wouldn't want them to do it just to do it. I think I am more worried because I have seen what a calculated risk looks like to this regime. I think it's me more concerned with who they choose then the actual move to trade up to grab some one. I'm not trusting the ability of risk management 5 interceptions later. Thats the reason for my real hot take. Edited November 21, 2017 by Lfod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 54 minutes ago, MarylandFan1980 said: I think they have to take a QB this year. I know the GM/coach are likely on 5 yr contracts, but if they pass on an early QB this year, you'd be in year 3 (2019) before selecting one and by then the seat may be getting a little hot, not to mention growing pains of a rookie QB. Rex had a 5 year contract too. Don't get too comfortable guys. If we're sitting here in the same place next year this time win wise, your seats will start getting hot real fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: Rex had a 5 year contract too. Don't get too comfortable guys. If we're sitting here in the same place next year this time win wise, your seats will start getting hot real fast. Hooray for two year coaching and GM changes. It's worked so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) Whatever we do don't hack it like the 2004 Draft when Eli, Rivers and Big Ben came out and take another Loserman. Focus on 2 QB's and make it happen. Enough of the BS drafts picks that have don't jack squat over the past 18years. I swear if the Bills draft a DT with their first 1st round pick I might loss my **** and post my Dear John Letter here like Row33 Edited November 21, 2017 by Real McCoy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Literally do WHATEVER it takes to get Rosen. There are only good pocket passers like that every 5-10 years. Don't mess around. Both 1st's and our extra 2nd might get it done. Make it happen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 55 minutes ago, Lfod said: Fortune favors the bold. I know that sitting on your hands isn't an answer either. I definitely would not be against trading up if the proper home work is done. I wouldn't want them to do it just to do it. I think I am more worried because I have seen what a calculated risk looks like to this regime. I think it's me more concerned with who they choose then the actual move to trade up to grab some one. I'm not trusting the ability of risk management 5 interceptions later. Thats the reason for my real hot take. Agreed. It's easy to trade players to load up on picks and open cap space. It's another thing to draft the right players and add the right FA's. That said give at least Beane some time his season doesn't really start until Feb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 47 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Whatever we do don't hack it like the 2004 Draft when Eli, Rivers and Big Ben came out and take another Loserman. Focus on 2 QB's and make it happen. Enough of the BS drafts picks that have don't jack squat over the past 18years. I swear if the Bills draft a DT with their first 1st round pick I might loss my **** and post my Dear John Letter here like Row33 They easily could have traded up for Big Ben too. If we sent our 1st and the picks we gave up for Loserman to jump the Steelers this franchise would be a winner right now. Lee Evans was fine but had almost no impact on winning. I am on the wagon of trading as many picks as necessary to get our guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 17 hours ago, yungmack said: If you do an honest analysis of this team, the absolute top needs are not at QB. Yes, they need a good one. But they have to massively upgrade the O line and maybe 80% of the overall D immediately this off season. It makes no sense to package a bunch of picks to move up for a top QB who will be wrecked behind the O line. Get the O line right in '18, use '19 to get the QB and get the D started in the right direction, use '20 to fill it out. In 4 or 5 years, they should be ready to make a run at post season play. Rinse. Repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 50 minutes ago, kdiggz said: Literally do WHATEVER it takes to get Rosen. There are only good pocket passers like that every 5-10 years. Don't mess around. Both 1st's and our extra 2nd might get it done. Make it happen I would absolutely make that trade, but I suspect Rosen will go #1 overall. I'm not really sure that's enough and if it's the Browns or Giants, I think they just take Rosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 i'll put my body out there if i think it helps this team get a new qb. i'm in it to win it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comebackkid Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: "neglected the lines for too long..." Are you kidding me? Really?! The freaking LINES?! Do you not remember having Mario, Dareus, Kyle, and Hughes as our DL? That dominating defense that we all loved? I guess I missed the playoff run. Do you not remember having the best running game in the league two years in a row, with pro bowlers and solid coaching for a change? We've had good OL and DL the past few years until now. Ne has mediocre offensive and defensive lines. Who cares? They are unstoppable and will win their 6th Super Bowl this year. I don't remember pats o-line ever being bad for long. Unless they are going against an elite D, Brady can pretty much eat lunch while surveying the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 32 minutes ago, corta765 said: Agreed. It's easy to trade players to load up on picks and open cap space. It's another thing to draft the right players and add the right FA's. That said give at least Beane some time his season doesn't really start until Feb. I can't argue with that. Not enough time has passed to really judge in my view. I'm not negative on this regime and honestly I love the bold moves all year. It was sad to see the 5-2 start like dust in the wind but at least I got the excitement out of it. We have the ammunition this year so no better time to fire shots in the next draft. I still have a feeling Tyrod can be acceptable with serious talent around him but I would definitely love to have an elite franchise quarter back and finally put all the debates to rest at that position. Hopefully the message board experts paint a good picture of who the Bills are likely to draft and all the info around these players. I'm looking forward to reading it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 19 hours ago, yungmack said: If you do an honest analysis of this team, the absolute top needs are not at QB. Yes, they need a good one. But they have to massively upgrade the O line and maybe 80% of the overall D immediately this off season. It makes no sense to package a bunch of picks to move up for a top QB who will be wrecked behind the O line. Get the O line right in '18, use '19 to get the QB and get the D started in the right direction, use '20 to fill it out. In 4 or 5 years, they should be ready to make a run at post season play. Thank you for saying what no one on this board wants to hear, but what is also necessary imho. Don't get that QB now - this is not a team to develop with. Line play should be the focus, and our number of picks this year helps us in addressing our MANY positional needs more so than packaging them for one chance on a QB. Do we even know if this upcoming class has potential franchise talent or are we just speculating over what's the best out there this year? '18 fix the trenches. Can't play successful NFL football without establishing dominance on the LOS. Maybe a late round RB talent to help there too as this will be a top priority once Shady starts declining, if not already. '19 hopefully find the QB, it's difficult when it depends entirely on the draft class, but with focusing on an overall rebuild, having the record from '18 to draft high in '19 would be more likely. Albeit at the expense of our battered fanbase. Continue to work on filling positional needs at LB, DB, RB, WR. And for god's sake development of players, something I haven't seen this team do in the past decade in most any position. '20 find the QB if it didn't pan out in '19 - hopefully our line play is starting to come along at this point and we've at least established starters at most positions. From this point and on we should be able to focus on the QB solely, and if not only a hand full of other positions. '20+ continue the process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 1 hour ago, ctk232 said: Thank you for saying what no one on this board wants to hear, but what is also necessary imho. Don't get that QB now - this is not a team to develop with. Line play should be the focus, and our number of picks this year helps us in addressing our MANY positional needs more so than packaging them for one chance on a QB. Do we even know if this upcoming class has potential franchise talent or are we just speculating over what's the best out there this year? '18 fix the trenches. Can't play successful NFL football without establishing dominance on the LOS. Maybe a late round RB talent to help there too as this will be a top priority once Shady starts declining, if not already. '19 hopefully find the QB, it's difficult when it depends entirely on the draft class, but with focusing on an overall rebuild, having the record from '18 to draft high in '19 would be more likely. Albeit at the expense of our battered fanbase. Continue to work on filling positional needs at LB, DB, RB, WR. And for god's sake development of players, something I haven't seen this team do in the past decade in most any position. '20 find the QB if it didn't pan out in '19 - hopefully our line play is starting to come along at this point and we've at least established starters at most positions. From this point and on we should be able to focus on the QB solely, and if not only a hand full of other positions. '20+ continue the process Really?? The Bills will be probably picking around the 10-14 position. Draft either Mayfield or Jackson… …and they would STILL have another 1st, two 2nds and one third round picks (the rest of the draft)…PLUS free agency. Seriously...if you can’t fix your trenches with all of that capital after their 1st rd QB pick, then you should quit and go into another business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Well if the new staff wouldn't have sat our starting QB they could have done what it thought they were going to do . Which is play out the year with Taylor at the helm & keep him in 2018 to work out his contract while they draft another QB & see how Peterman came along after one year of watching TT . But now a totally different plan going forward !! Now Tyrod is probably thinking he's out even if they don't want him to leave . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 On 11/20/2017 at 8:35 PM, oldmanfan said: I agree with the above. Posted elsewhere that we have neglected the lines for too long. But, if they think a guy like Rosen is can't miss then go get him and trust your scouts and pro personnel folks to find some guys that can play up front through lower round picks or free agency. How have the lines been neglected? Cordy and Miller both hurt- thats our major issue for the O line. On the D line Dareus was signed to a big contract but was shown the door. We drafted a DE (Shaq)that has stunk, and Washington who is too small for a one technique. The lines were addressed, just did a poor job getting the right personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 More the O line than D line. Miller was a third round pick. Glenn was a good pick but got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 This is a full rebuild I would not trade up with so many players needed. Castillo and Dennison using the players not suited for there systems. Defense, just good grief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 On 11/21/2017 at 1:31 AM, yungmack said: If you do an honest analysis of this team, the absolute top needs are not at QB. Yes, they need a good one. But they have to massively upgrade the O line and maybe 80% of the overall D immediately this off season. It makes no sense to package a bunch of picks to move up for a top QB who will be wrecked behind the O line. Get the O line right in '18, use '19 to get the QB and get the D started in the right direction, use '20 to fill it out. In 4 or 5 years, they should be ready to make a run at post season play. Until you have a QB the top need is always QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 What a surprise though that we are seeing the "wait for next year" QB drafters..... time to get off the pot Buffalo. We must draft a Quarterback. If we don't I will be out on this regime. That is how critical it is to the future of this organisation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I hope it’s either Darnold or Rosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 19 hours ago, T master said: Well if the new staff wouldn't have sat our starting QB they could have done what it thought they were going to do . Which is play out the year with Taylor at the helm & keep him in 2018 to work out his contract while they draft another QB & see how Peterman came along after one year of watching TT . But now a totally different plan going forward !! Now Tyrod is probably thinking he's out even if they don't want him to leave . It's not Tyrod's option to leave if they don't want him to. But the Bills have to pay him $16M to keep him around, and I don't see McWrestler and Mr Beane having $16M of Luuuuuve for the Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Laffy Taffy knows better! Got this GEM today at work. WTF? Note, Kids write these Jokes..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 i hope we can sit and get mayfield with our first pick. i also want to see more of peterman after we get hosed these next 3 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Yungmack said it perfectly, everything else is fodder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 On 11/22/2017 at 6:48 AM, GunnerBill said: What a surprise though that we are seeing the "wait for next year" QB drafters..... time to get off the pot Buffalo. We must draft a Quarterback. If we don't I will be out on this regime. That is how critical it is to the future of this organisation. I’m already getting more critical of this regime. We absolutely need to draft a QB high. I just worry about this staff being able to develop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEN-CAL17 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Team Needs a QB, OL, MLB and DT in first 2 rounds. (No particular order) And a standout Free Agent at OL, OLB and grab a solid Nickel CB to push Gaines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 If there as many decent QB prospects as some seem to believe, then there shouldn't be a problem getting one of the better ones. You just have to choose (very) wisely. As regards the O-Line, what we really need, is a healthy Glenn to begin with, and then a RT who can actually pass protect. Pass protection has been awful for the last 3 years, both under Ryan, and (still) now. A good(ish) run blocking O-Line, is not a good overall O-Line. On offense this year, the regression seems to have happened, because, like Ryan did with the D, guys are being asked/told/expected, to play in ways they simply aren't up to. While Dennison probably deserves some of the flak for the alteration in schemes, especially with his preference (supposedly) for zone blocking, Castillo should also be getting his share, as he's the guy supposedly teaching the necessary techniques (and failing). While there's certainly some legitimacy in the argument about getting an O-Line in place before getting your QB, the reality is, that we've missed on prospects in the past, by not taking them soon enough, whether it be 'Big Ben', Cousins, or Russel Wilson. If the previous few games have shown us anything, it's that we currently don't have a QB who we can trust. We absolutely need to get one for the future, before anything else. Find a good one, then you have a few years before you have to pay him, and in that time, if necessary, you can spend money in FA to give him the protection he needs, while also drafting guys for the future on the line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 A rookie had a bad day in his first start. -PLEASE don't read anything more into it than that.. I've been watching Peterman since he was at Tennessee, and wasn't the least bit surprised at what went down. -He's known for rough starts... I fully believe that if he hangs on, he will get better. -ALOT better. He has the potential to develop into one of the better backup/stop-gaps in the league. -That's no insult. If Peterman never set foot on that field last week, the Bills would still have major issues. We should start looking at those, instead of focusing on a kid who had a rough first day at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 On 11/20/2017 at 5:35 PM, billspro said: This is probably the most worrisome thing for me following the three losses. I don't think there is anyway we can go back to Tyrod after benching him. I was hoping that he would be a stop gap until we found someone better. I was hoping for a lot more out of Peterman, I am not sure he is even a serviceable back up at this point. Looking ahead to the draft, Cleveland will certainly be taking a QB with the first overall pick. The Giants, Broncos, Colts, Cards, and Jets are all in the Qb market as well. What do the Bills do? Do they trade all our picks to move up to number 2 and take Darnold or Rosen? Should they stay put and take a chance on a guy like Allen or Mayfield in the second? Should they hope a guy like Lamar Jackson fall to them in round 1 (you better find a creative OC)? If they don't hit on this position this year we are going to be talking about the same thing five years from now. The worst thing would be to have Peterman play okay and they decide to go with him and not address the position. Keep both until accumulation of talent pushes them off the roster. Peterman dropped as far as he did for a reason. He may turn out to be a decent backup down the road. Tyrod has proven he can play at a high level under the right circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 On 21/11/2017 at 12:35 AM, billspro said: This is probably the most worrisome thing for me following the three losses. I don't think there is anyway we can go back to Tyrod after benching him. I was hoping that he would be a stop gap until we found someone better. I was hoping for a lot more out of Peterman, I am not sure he is even a serviceable back up at this point. Looking ahead to the draft, Cleveland will certainly be taking a QB with the first overall pick. The Giants, Broncos, Colts, Cards, and Jets are all in the Qb market as well. What do the Bills do? Do they trade all our picks to move up to number 2 and take Darnold or Rosen? Should they stay put and take a chance on a guy like Allen or Mayfield in the second? Should they hope a guy like Lamar Jackson fall to them in round 1 (you better find a creative OC)? If they don't hit on this position this year we are going to be talking about the same thing five years from now. The worst thing would be to have Peterman play okay and they decide to go with him and not address the position. Cardinals are going with Palmer again next year so wont need a QB, colts have Luck and the Broncos will pick after us. We will get to choose a QB high don't worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downunderbill Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 IMO the bills need their franchise passer as the #1 priority. You can pick up linemen in free agency and draft some depth in later rounds but teams very rarely let good QB's go. In the end you need a good QB to get to footballs ultimate goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 9 hours ago, Bangarang said: I’m already getting more critical of this regime. We absolutely need to draft a QB high. I just worry about this staff being able to develop him. I’m too am starting to think Dennison may not be modern enough to design for QB’s strengths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 On November 22, 2017 at 7:25 PM, wppete said: I hope it’s either Darnold or Rosen. I think Darnold has a higher ceiling but you might have to live with lots of turnovers for awhile at least. Rosen throws a lovely ball and is perfect if you are planning to run a WCO. He needs to add 15-20 lbs tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, starrymessenger said: I think Darnold has a higher ceiling but you might have to live with lots of turnovers for awhile at least. Rosen throws a lovely ball and is perfect if you are planning to run a WCO. He needs to add 15-20 lbs tho. I’m trying not to set my sights too high because I think it’s going to be nearly impossible to get either of those guys...and even if, by some crazy chance, we were able to pull it off, I would probably die of a heart attack and never be able to see them play anyway...God once told me I’m not allowed to have nice things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 On November 21, 2017 at 7:33 PM, 1billsfan said: Really?? The Bills will be probably picking around the 10-14 position. Draft either Mayfield or Jackson… …and they would STILL have another 1st, two 2nds and one third round picks (the rest of the draft)…PLUS free agency. Seriously...if you can’t fix your trenches with all of that capital after their 1st rd QB pick, then you should quit and go into another business. Jackson or Mayfield, at QB, would make this porous Oline look like All-Pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 18 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: I’m trying not to set my sights too high because I think it’s going to be nearly impossible to get either of those guys...and even if, by some crazy chance, we were able to pull it off, I would probably die of a heart attack and never be able to see them play anyway...God once told me I’m not allowed to have nice things... Yeah we're not getting either one. It helps to be really bad before you can be really good. Unfortunately we are always only mediocre, and therefore we tend to stay that way. Mediocrity is one of the levels of hell. Home sweet home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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