New Chenelly Tweet - Coughlin an option

[BrooklynBills]

The only thing I buy in this is that this is a divided organization.

 

On Rex's side, he can point to the obvious: glaring, gaping holes at safety and the WR group.

 

On Whaley's: Rex hasn't gotten the production out of the D that even Pettine was able to, never mind Schwartz. Mario Williams quit on the team after less than a season with Rex, and vast resources have been poured in to try to right the ship and it still hasn't worked. Whaley got an extraordinary value in Kiko for Shady, struck gold with Darby, LorAx, Zach, Hughes and Ritchie, and got the pieces for the best rushing attack two years running.

 

But it still isn't enough.

 

I bet the knives are out. It's hard to tear it all down if they finish 9-7 but there is bad blood. FWIW, the last coach I remember being fired with a winning record was Lovie Smith from Chicago and neither side has done well since.

Pettine had Searcy, Williams, and Byrd as the top 3 safeties if I recall.

 

Also, let's review the players that you say Whaley "struck gold" on:

 

Darby: inconsistent; almost benched in year 2

LoRax: an over 30 journeyman who now needs a new contract because we were so sure he was going to be good that we signed him to a one year deal

Zach Brown: again, we were so sure of his talent that he was only signed to a one year deal and we will now have to overspend to keep him here

Hughes: I like jerry Hughes. This had been a great trade. It also happened when Buddy Nix was still the GM, BTW.

Incognito: I don't even think Whaley met with him in Miami. Pretty sure all the reports were that he met with Rex and then with ownership.

[BILLSviaPHILLY]

I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up yet, but I am not convinced Rex is getting fired. It's always reported that the Pegulas listen to the players (part of the reason Roman got axed), and since the reports of Rex getting canned have coe out a handful of players have publicly expressed that they think he should stay. I believe that will have some weight in the decision, so if its still being discussed, that could be the determining factor in whether he stays or goes.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Pettine had Searcy, Williams, and Byrd as the top 3 safeties if I recall.

 

Also, let's review the players that you say Whaley "struck gold" on:

 

Darby: inconsistent; almost benched in year 2

LoRax: an over 30 journeyman who now needs a new contract because we were so sure he was going to be good that we signed him to a one year deal

Zach Brown: again, we were so sure of his talent that he was only signed to a one year deal and we will now have to overspend to keep him here

Hughes: I like jerry Hughes. This had been a great trade. It also happened when Buddy Nix was still the GM, BTW.

Incognito: I don't even think Whaley met with him in Miami. Pretty sure all the reports were that he met with Rex and then with ownership.

Man, you really see Byrd and Searcy really lighting it up now, don't you? Right,they got horribly overpaid elsewhere. Searcy hasn't exactly lit it up with the Titans and Byrd has become the prime case for "this is why you don't pay out big for a safety" naysayers. Also, Byrd missed half the year you say was so amazing.

 

And then, they were miraculously better the next year without them.

 

I'll admit that Darby is having a down year. But he's getting very little help with safety play. If you want to indict Whaley for not doing enough to help the safety group, and he overly counted on AW getting through one more year I'm right there with you. But let's not make out Byrd and Searcy as horrific losses.

 

You want to say that Zack and LorAx are going to go elsewhere? Well, we have their replacements waiting I'm the wings. There is something to be said for having a nose to find journeymen who are motivated to outplay expectations and Whaley seems to have it.

 

Do you seriously believe that the GM had nothing to do with bringing Incognito in? Whaley struck first, and Ritchie has been our best lineman all season. And even if, by some miracle, the Pegula's brought him in without their GM, Whaley has made sure he is staying with a very reasonable deal.

 

The man has flaws. WR, S and QB looks messy right now. But let's not misrepresent things.

[hondo in seattle]

I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up yet, but I am not convinced Rex is getting fired. It's always reported that the Pegulas listen to the players (part of the reason Roman got axed), and since the reports of Rex getting canned have coe out a handful of players have publicly expressed that they think he should stay. I believe that will have some weight in the decision, so if its still being discussed, that could be the determining factor in whether he stays or goes.

 

The Pegulas talk to a lot of people. They talk to the players. They talk to the personnel guys. They talk to the coaches. They undoubtedly talk to football people outside the organization. And they talk to fans though we probably have the least influence.

 

We don't know if there's a consensus growing among these different official & unofficial advisory groups that Rex needs to go. We do know that the Pegulas appreciate the importance of continuity. While I wouldn't be shocked if Rex was fired, right now I'm not convinced either.

[BrooklynBills]

Ok moron:

 

Man, you really see Byrd and Searcy really lighting it up now, don't you? Right,they got horribly overpaid elsewhere. Searcy hasn't exactly lit it up with the Titans and Byrd has become the prime case for "this is why you don't pay out big for a safety" naysayers. Also, Byrd missed half the year you say was so amazing.

 

And then, they were miraculously better the next year without them.

 

I'll admit that Darby is having a down year. But he's getting very little help with safety play. If you want to indict Whaley for not doing enough to help the safety group, and he overly counted on AW getting through one more year I'm right there with you. But let's not make out Byrd and Searcy as horrific losses.

 

You want to say that Zack and LorAx are going to go elsewhere? Well, we have their replacements waiting I'm the wings. There is something to be said for having a nose to find journeymen who are motivated to outplay expectations and Whaley seems to have it.

 

Do you seriously believe that the GM had nothing to do with bringing Incognito in? Whaley struck first, and Ritchie has been our best lineman all season. And even if, by some miracle, the Pegula's brought him in without their GM, Whaley has made sure he is staying with a very reasonable deal.

 

The man has flaws. WR, S and QB looks messy right now. But let's not misrepresent things.

Byrd is overpaid; absolutely. Searcy has a $6 mil/yr avg. Not overpaid. He's arguably been the Titans best player in the secondary. He also made plays here and was on the 2014 Schwartz D. I could care less about the fact that we let them go. I care that the players brought in to replace them were a 4th round total waste of a pick in Duke Williams and a converted CB in Graham.

 

Graham has been ok. But the depth behind these players is atrocious.

 

We are not getting good value out of the draft.

Duke Williams -4th round

Bryce Brown - 4th round

Traded a 4th in Watkins trade

Traded 2 4ths in Ragland trade

Ross cockrell - 4th round

 

I realize that the draft is an inexact science but thats alot of wasted value in the middle of the draft.

[The Big Cat]

The Bills are better than 8 win talent.

 

Correct. But they have a 3 win QB that averages them out.

[Billschinatown]

Correct. But they have a 3 win QB that averages them out.

Well at least he appears to be over achieving then.

[DCbillsfan]

Good Guy yes. Good Defensive coordinator no. Having "good guys" around is why this organization has not sniffed the playoffs in going on 17 years.

I'm OK with Rex being fired at the end of the season. My point was regarding the rumor that he had already been informed by Pegula that he was going to be relieved. Either fire him now or bite your tongue until end of season.

[DCbillsfan]

I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up yet, but I am not convinced Rex is getting fired. It's always reported that the Pegulas listen to the players (part of the reason Roman got axed), and since the reports of Rex getting canned have coe out a handful of players have publicly expressed that they think he should stay. I believe that will have some weight in the decision, so if its still being discussed, that could be the determining factor in whether he stays or goes.

I could see the Bills blowing it up big time, firing only Rex, or staying pat. They will explain away any of these scenarios which would appease some of the fans and ticking off the rest. I think the Bills organization as a whole lacks a focused plan thus mediocre results if not worse. Edited December 20, 2016 by DCbillsfan

[scribo]

@AACynicalCinema

@jchenelly So is Coughlin still the favorite besides Lynn?

Reply to @AACynicalCinema

Joe Chenelly ‏@jchenelly

@AACynicalCinema They share the inside track, yes. But keep in mind 2 yrs ago they had their minds set before Rex changed them.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

@AACynicalCinema

@jchenelly So is Coughlin still the favorite besides Lynn?

Reply to @AACynicalCinema

Joe Chenelly ‏@jchenelly

@AACynicalCinema They share the inside track, yes. But keep in mind 2 yrs ago they had their minds set before Rex changed them.

 

 

Set on who?

 

Or should I ask, set on Hue?

[reddogblitz]

What's Kevin Gilbride up to?

I think he retired after the Giants won thier second Super Bowl over the Patsies** with him as OC.

[Jamie Nails]

Here's another tweet from Joe on potential coaching targets:

 

Coaches I expect #Bills to interview: Austin, Coughlin, Bevel, K Shanahan, M Smith. Dan Quinn nearly got the job 2 yrs ago. #BillsMafia

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Here's another tweet from Joe on potential coaching targets:

 

Coaches I expect #Bills to interview: Austin, Coughlin, Bevel, K Shanahan, M Smith. Dan Quinn nearly got the job 2 yrs ago. #BillsMafia

 

Who?

[Big C]

 

Who?

Lions DC

 

Damn. Imagine Quinn/Shanahan here.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Big C

[reddogblitz]

Not interviewing Jim Bob Cooter?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Lions DC

 

Damn. Imagine Quinn/Shanahan here.

 

Don't know anything about him, how is there D?

Don't know why they aren't interviewing Schwartz, does he not get along with Whaley either?

[GunnerBill]

 

Don't know anything about him, how is there D?

 

Was great his first year two middling years since losing Suh. Seems he is recognised around the league as a leader though so I don't think it is on the strength of his scheme that he will be in line.

[JM57]

Lions DC

 

Damn. Imagine Quinn/Shanahan here.

Man they really blew that one.

[Saint Doug]

The Lions defense is no better than ours. No thanks to Austin.

[4merper4mer]

 

Who?

Tavon Austin.

[jahnyc]

I think it will be Lynn or Austin.

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

Who?

Stone Cold Steve

[PatsFanNH]

Coughlin looked good on the one Prime time game I saw him speak.

Give me a Mike Smith, same type of coach just 20 years younger. Smith took the Falcons to the same place Coughlin took the Jags.

One Huge difference IMO is Coughlin brought an EXPANSION team to the playoffs ina couple of years. That is just impressive to me! I have always loved Coughlin ever since he was HC of the BC Eagles. (I dare say if he had stayed just 2 more years BC would have won a National Championship and if you know BC you know how unbelievable that is!)

[bobobonators]

One Huge difference IMO is Coughlin brought an EXPANSION team to the playoffs ina couple of years. That is just impressive to me! I have always loved Coughlin ever since he was HC of the BC Eagles. (I dare say if he had stayed just 2 more years BC would have won a National Championship and if you know BC you know how unbelievable that is!)

 

Tom Coughlin was a great coach. He had a great run. But it's over. It needs to be over. What he did in Jax was 21 years ago and irrelevant at this point in time.

[PatsFanNH]

 

Tom Coughlin was a great coach. He had a great run. But it's over. It needs to be over. What he did in Jax was 21 years ago and irrelevant at this point in time.

Very true, and he is in his 70's. I would think he want to retire. I also think he had a great run in NY, 2 SB wins and probably have more if he did t have Eli "Jeckyl and Hyde" Manning as his QB.

[YoloinOhio]

@pfcentral

Buffalo passed on Coughlin in 04 and have already had a dialogue with them since October. An official meeting expected to take place soon

[TheFunPolice]

So Coughlin (a guy who beat Belichick and Brady in TWO Super Bowls) is going to come in and take marching orders from Doug Whaley?

 

No way. IMO anyway.

 

I'll support whoever they hire and hope they get it right this time so we can see a winning team in our lifetimes.

[zevo]

I have no idea why age is such a big deal in the argument against coughlin....as long as he is on the up and up with today's NFL which I have no reason to believe or disbelieve then why the hell not....rings command respect....

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Or maybe in the year he was here, while the defense played great, he was an organizational mess?? Maybe why they didn't hire as HC last time. They still sensed some of the same issues as were in Detroit, great coordinator, bad HC??

 

 

 

Don't know anything about him, how is there D?

Don't know why they aren't interviewing Schwartz, does he not get along with Whaley either?

[MDH]

One Huge difference IMO is Coughlin brought an EXPANSION team to the playoffs ina couple of years. That is just impressive to me!

 

He had them in the playoffs 4 out of the first 5 years. Then when he was hired by the Giants he did the exact same thing.

 

I have no clue if the game has "passed him by" or if he's physically up to the task of taking on another HC job but, at the very least, the Bills should talk to him.

[DrDawkinstein]

So Coughlin (a guy who beat Belichick and Brady in TWO Super Bowls) is going to come in and take marching orders from Doug Whaley?

 

No way. IMO anyway.

 

I'll support whoever they hire and hope they get it right this time so we can see a winning team in our lifetimes.

 

Your opinion on the way Tom Coughlin thinks is fairly uninformed. Wouldnt you admit?

 

I certainly dont have any clue to his thinking, but I do know he worked with a strong GM in NY and didnt have a problem. Maybe he likes to only focus on coaching?

I have no idea why age is such a big deal in the argument against coughlin....as long as he is on the up and up with today's NFL which I have no reason to believe or disbelieve then why the hell not....rings command respect....

 

For me, the knock with age is because I want the Bills to hire their LONG TERM solution (10 years). That is the only way to stabilize the franchise from here. Coughlin has what, 2-3 years left? We'll be right in the same old Bills coaching carousel.

[dave mcbride]

 

Your opinion on the way Tom Coughlin thinks is fairly uninformed. Wouldnt you admit?

 

I certainly dont have any clue to his thinking, but I do know he worked with a strong GM in NY and didnt have a problem. Maybe he likes to only focus on coaching?

 

For me, the knock with age is because I want the Bills to hire their LONG TERM solution (10 years). That is the only way to stabilize the franchise from here. Coughlin has what, 2-3 years left? We'll be right in the same old Bills coaching carousel.

Coughlin got along pretty well with Jerry Reese.

[tennesseeboy]

The problem is still there and I don't see any coach who has options taking this job. Whaley has been a coach killer and has been a nightmare at hiring coaches. He wants Lynn (one tear as OC and running backs coach experience on losing teams. He will not resist whalers meddling. No you won't see a competitive coach walking into this snake pit

[reddogblitz]

The problem is still there and I don't see any coach who has options taking this job. Whaley has been a coach killer and has been a nightmare at hiring coaches. He wants Lynn (one tear as OC and running backs coach experience on losing teams. He will not resist whalers meddling. No you won't see a competitive coach walking into this snake pit

What exactly does Whaley do to sabatoge these coaches? He doesn't get along with them? I don't get along with boss me some comworkers either. Am I sabatoging them? In environments with strong egos, not getting along is not uncommon.

[87168]

The problem is still there and I don't see any coach who has options taking this job. Whaley has been a coach killer and has been a nightmare at hiring coaches. He wants Lynn (one tear as OC and running backs coach experience on losing teams. He will not resist whalers meddling. No you won't see a competitive coach walking into this snake pit

coach killer? haha! since he's been GM, he's had two coaches. Marrone, who left on his own accord (with a winning record and team on the upswing), and Rex whom was awful and NOT his pick at HC (Rex was the doormat of the afce, and the Pegulas hired him)...so....elaborate?

Edited December 29, 2016 by 87168

[mob16151]

Tavon Austin.

Teryl

[Kelly the Dog]

Coughlin got along pretty well with Jerry Reese.

And Whaley just spent two years getting exactly the kind of players that his HC wanted and asked for, including a couple that Whaley probably didn't want, like IK. There is no reason to believe that Coughlin couldn't get along with Whaley unless you believe in conspiracy theories, or that Whaley just intentionally tries to undermine his own team and threaten his own job. Whaley did everything Rex wanted him to. As soon as Rex showed that he was not the guy we were hoping for, Whaley lost his belief in Rex. You know, pretty much like every Bills fan.

[dave mcbride]

And Whaley just spent two years getting exactly the kind of players that his HC wanted and asked for, including a couple that Whaley probably didn't want, like IK. There is no reason to believe that Coughlin couldn't get along with Whaley unless you believe in conspiracy theories, or that Whaley just intentionally tries to undermine his own team and threaten his own job. Whaley did everything Rex wanted him to. As soon as Rex showed that he was not the guy we were hoping for, Whaley lost his belief in Rex. You know, pretty much like every Bills fan.

I think that's fair. That doesn't explain the war with Marrone though. It could be the case that Whaley changed after Marrone and decided that he'd get the players the coach wanted. Neither relationship worked out in the end, but perhaps for very different reasons. Just doing some free-style speculating ...

[dpberr]

I don't think Coughlin wants full control of the football team. He wants to coach one and I don't think for very long either. Maybe 2-3 years.

 

I think he's motivated to prove the New York Giants wrong and show that he can still coach and win. Buffalo is an attractive spot because the coach who puts Buffalo into the playoffs is easily a Coach of the Year candidate and it is a hell of a capstone to his legacy. Buffalo in the playoffs on top of his work in Jacksonville and in New York makes him a first ballot hall of fame coach. If you want a challenge as a head coach, there is no bigger of a challenge than the one in Orchard Park, NY.

 

Part of me is concerned by that because if he's on a personal mission to prove "his" way still works, that's what Ryan was - on a mission to prove something to the Jets and it was not successful. The Bills have to decide on whether the Coughlin way has a place in the 2017 NFL.

 

Part of me sees it as a positive - He's been successful everywhere, he's taken the time to reflect (unlike Ryan) and he's motivated. He hates being fired.

Edited December 29, 2016 by dpberr