dave mcbride Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Rex said today Harvin wants to still play. There is no way we keep him at his contract. There is no way IMO anyone pays him a decent contract next year based on his injury history and production history and various other factors. Personally I would have no problem signing him to a smallish deal with incentives for games active, starts and production. I think he would entertain re-signing here. At 3m I still know it is a risk and less than 50% chance he plays 15-16 games but it's a risk I would take. I wouldn't want it to dissuade us from finding another #2 or #3 or #4 WR in FA or the draft though. And I totally understand why people would say no or not worth the risk. I wouldn't give him a dime. Not worth the risk or the headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 For a benchmarks 3m average is on par with briamhartline, Brandon lafell, Dexter mccluster.... It's pretty modest for a vet wr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Cannot carry both him and Goodwin on this roster next season….I would say one or the other for a small price. 2 WR positions going to guys that cannot give you half a season is a waste. Neither please. Thank you. For a benchmarks 3m average is on par with briamhartline, Brandon lafell, Dexter mccluster.... It's pretty modest for a vet wr Unfortunately, he cannot stay on the field. He's just not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Rex said today Harvin wants to still play. There is no way we keep him at his contract. There is no way IMO anyone pays him a decent contract next year based on his injury history and production history and various other factors. Personally I would have no problem signing him to a smallish deal with incentives for games active, starts and production. I think he would entertain re-signing here. At 3m I still know it is a risk and less than 50% chance he plays 15-16 games but it's a risk I would take. I wouldn't want it to dissuade us from finding another #2 or #3 or #4 WR in FA or the draft though. And I totally understand why people would say no or not worth the risk. I agree that they should be looking for a legit number 2, but I would take another chance on Harvin at the right price. The Bills offense was considerably more dangerous when both he and Watkins were playing. I would not bet the future on it, but he is a playmaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) I would. Assemble as much talent as possible. Harvin is a tremendous talent and we were better when he was on the field Everyone wants to get rid of distractions. Been doing that for 16 years. Get me some damn good football players Edited December 28, 2015 by Captain Hindsight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) Harvin is out of the picture. Is he even going to practices, or games? Did he just go home? Edited December 28, 2015 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 The problem is the opportunity cost. I know you've built that into your question but I don't think it's that simple. So you go ahead and target another #2 WR as a backup plan - that's fine, but you're still using up a roster spot and cap dollars on someone who has proven only that he is undependable. And it's not like he's considered a "coach on the field" or locker room leader (nor is he a negative influence). The Bills are going to have a small margin for error next year with the schedule they have and the division they play in. Personally, I'd invest heavily in special teams (start by upgrading the coordinator) because most teams don't, and that gives you an edge in one of the three aspects of the game. There is market inefficiency in special teams. I'd also invest in the linebacking corps - targeting lots of athletic depth that can help you on ST as well as in Rex's sub-packages. I'd find another tight end to compliment Clay, perhaps a blocker who can also move a bit. I'd get rid of the fullback. And I'd find a tall, dependable #2 WR. Here is a ridiculous idea: take the money allocated toward Mario and use it on Calvin Johnson. Good luck matching up against that offense. I'd be good with that plan. We are definitely on the same page on the special teams coach........the very first move next Monday should be relieving Crossman of his post. I'd love to have Calvin Johnson opposite Watkins and I'd be very interested in taking a gamble and trading for the rights to Josh Gordon.........who people may forget is probably the most explosive deep threat WR in the NFL...and also huge at 6'4". I don't have a problem with bringing Percy back super cheap and with incentives but he needs to open up at no more than 4th or 5th on your depth chart because you need good WR's at the top of your chart in the NFL and he's not proven to be one. And when you have a guy like Tyrod who can make huge plays but isn't good at throwing receivers open you need some big targets he can trust to make contested grabs. That's not Woods or Hogan. They aren't awful but they are a #3/#4 types who look bad when they are matched with good corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USABuffaloFan Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 This guy was missing in action since Jags game. Bills said they had no contact with him and weren't sure why he didn't go to London. Reports were out he retired and/or some Bills player had passport issues. Stole 6mil dollars this year because he was not hurt like Goodwin or Easley. Absolutely no way in h3ll Bills should give him another chance. Pegula should ask Whaley and if he said yes or maybe I would fire him too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Pay him for what exactly? He says he wants to play but there is no guarantee? If people want incentive laden, I wish the NFL would allow a pay as you go contract. Move on from him and get a more dependable, big, strong, possession WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Agree that if the training staff ok'd him I would be ok with it. Knee jerk reaction is no thank you. Draft or find a real number 2 wide out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 The report that I read (sorry don't have link) was that he was having some sort of chronic problem with his hip, which was affecting his stride and cutting ability. He left the team to consult with a hip specialist. If his hip is bothering him that much, then I think it's probably going to end up forcing him to retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 You cant depend on him - fill the roster spot with a quality number 2 receiver and let Harvin walk. Heck, he has had so many injuries/migranes I dont even remember what his current ailment is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) If the Bills have room for a flyer heading into camp, I guess it's OK. Not a topic of particular interest in the offseason. Harvin and Goodwin are both lottery tickets with low probability of ever paying off. If the Bills lose them, who cares. Whaley/next-GM should be able to find better options than Hogan to compete with Woods for the #2 WR. Edited December 28, 2015 by Observer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 IMO it's not just his physical health. More importantly his mental health. I would't touch him with a ten foot pole. People got bent out of shape when Watkins complained about lack of targets. percy will do the same with even modest success next year. I lnow I am foolish for using the word success on a Rex Ryan coached team................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Rex said today Harvin wants to still play. There is no way we keep him at his contract. There is no way IMO anyone pays him a decent contract next year based on his injury history and production history and various other factors. Personally I would have no problem signing him to a smallish deal with incentives for games active, starts and production. I think he would entertain re-signing here. At 3m I still know it is a risk and less than 50% chance he plays 15-16 games but it's a risk I would take. I wouldn't want it to dissuade us from finding another #2 or #3 or #4 WR in FA or the draft though. And I totally understand why people would say no or not worth the risk. as long as the contract was set up so it starts at the minimum and with meeting each gate of percentage of playing time and games it continues to go up to make him happy, that is fine. When healthy he was fun to watch opposite of Sammy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Rex said today Harvin wants to still play. There is no way we keep him at his contract. There is no way IMO anyone pays him a decent contract next year based on his injury history and production history and various other factors. Personally I would have no problem signing him to a smallish deal with incentives for games active, starts and production. I think he would entertain re-signing here. At 3m I still know it is a risk and less than 50% chance he plays 15-16 games but it's a risk I would take. I wouldn't want it to dissuade us from finding another #2 or #3 or #4 WR in FA or the draft though. And I totally understand why people would say no or not worth the risk. only because of your next to last sentence, yes. Can't put an ounce of hope that he would contribute anything, but, if you can sign him feeling that's the case then why not? Whatever you get would be gravy on the mashed potatoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 What's the point of incentives? The guy can't stay healthy--by next season, it will have been 5 years since he played 16 games in a season, a feat he has achieved once in his career. He wasn't missed. Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I'd be good with that plan. We are definitely on the same page on the special teams coach........the very first move next Monday should be relieving Crossman of his post. I'd love to have Calvin Johnson opposite Watkins and I'd be very interested in taking a gamble and trading for the rights to Josh Gordon.........who people may forget is probably the most explosive deep threat WR in the NFL...and also huge at 6'4". I don't have a problem with bringing Percy back super cheap and with incentives but he needs to open up at no more than 4th or 5th on your depth chart because you need good WR's at the top of your chart in the NFL and he's not proven to be one. And when you have a guy like Tyrod who can make huge plays but isn't good at throwing receivers open you need some big targets he can trust to make contested grabs. That's not Woods or Hogan. They aren't awful but they are a #3/#4 types who look bad when they are matched with good corners. Josh Gordon? You mean the alcoholic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share Posted December 28, 2015 IMO it's not just his physical health. More importantly his mental health. I would't touch him with a ten foot pole. People got bent out of shape when Watkins complained about lack of targets. percy will do the same with even modest success next year. I lnow I am foolish for using the word success on a Rex Ryan coached team................ Don't recall a word he said complaining about targets. In fact, all reports were he was a model teammate. He didn't go with the team to London because of an injury he had surgery on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) Yep. Then I'd tell the coaching staff to "ponder" how to best help him to reach those incentives ... for about 10 weeks. He's a scumbag. Edited December 28, 2015 by Gugny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Yep. Then I'd tell the coaching staff to "ponder" how to best help him to reach those incentives ... for about 10 weeks. He's a scumbag. He was a jerky teammate in Seattle but not sure I'd say he was a scumbag, which I reserve for off-field stuff, unless there's some other incidents I never heard. We saw no evidence of scumbag behavior this year. When he initially went out, I thought he was a crazy jerkoff but it turned out to be legit medical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Don't recall a word he said complaining about targets. In fact, all reports were he was a model teammate. He didn't go with the team to London because of an injury he had surgery on. i didn't mean to imply he did. It was more of a what if scenario. But, with other teams he was a distraction. Locker room whatever. This team isn't the Kelly era Bills where a guy like Harvin can be dealt with by team leaders. But you're right he was on his best behavior. For the short time he was active. I never remember reading he had surgery around the London game? I do rememeber Rex saying he was dealing with personal issues. And seemed to dodge the subject. To me the whole season post injury for Harvin is kind of mysterious. yesterday Kyle Williams comes out of the tunnel on crutches wearing Carharts ( I think) Where is Percy? Does he even watch the games? he has Zero presence with the Bills. i think most thought he was a 1 year rental when he signed. Unless he had a pro bowl season. i think if story's are true he retires with the hip injury's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 He was a jerky teammate in Seattle but not sure I'd say he was a scumbag, which I reserve for off-field stuff, unless there's some other incidents I never heard. We saw no evidence of scumbag behavior this year. When he initially went out, I thought he was a crazy jerkoff but it turned out to be legit medical. I don't buy that it was legit medical, though. He handled it like an ass, dicking his teammates over, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I never remember reading he had surgery around the London game? Looks like it was in November. http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl-news/4660508-percy-harvin-knee-surgery-injury-update-bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I assume you mean a deal with $3M base plus incentives. I don't have a problem paying Harvin well, but I do have a problem guaranteeing him any money. It was a mistake this season and it's a mistake going forward. I'd insist on multiple roster bonuses throughout the season - every game if I could get it. It's been done before. Greg Hardy has such a deal, with a $750k base and $9.25M in weekly roster bonuses, plus a hefty workout bonus of over $1M. So if Harvin wants a similar deal - maybe a base around $750k plus something like $500k per game in roster bonuses and bonuses for being on the active game day roster. He can make his $8M-$9M if he performs all season and is willing to gut it out and play dinged. If he steps out of line, nurses an injury or even genuinely gets injured he'd be out. Also if the roster bonuses were small, but the active game day roster bonuses were large he could be kept on the team if he was to miss some time due to legitimate injury, but would be expected back. While I don't think he'd accept that kind of contract, it'd be the only way I'd touch him. *Please note that failure to pay a roster bonus terminates a contract whether or not a player is injured. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) I don't buy that it was legit medical, though. He handled it like an ass, dicking his teammates over, in my opinion. Maybe. It's not worth discussing really. The Bills have issues to fix well ahead of WR. HArvin's return or not should be about issue 70 on Whaley's list for this off-season. Edited December 28, 2015 by Observer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share Posted December 28, 2015 I don't buy that it was legit medical, though. He handled it like an ass, dicking his teammates over, in my opinion. Yep. Agreed. Guys have surgery for no reason. And usually just to dick over their teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Maybe. It's not worth discussing really. The Bills have issues to fix well ahead of WR. HArvin's return or not should be about issue 70 on Whaley's list for this off-season. Really? They could use two more WR, IMO, because our QB can't seem to get the ball to the one we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 If he wants to play, as long as he is diagnosed as completely healthy & all hip problems & what ever else he had wrong with him & he would play for a contract for $1 mill plus incentives then --- maybe . He can definitely be a weapon & someone that the opposition has to game plan for or at least keep a very close eye on him during the game . So as long as they can work out a contract in a year coming that they will need to try keeping other players that they have drafted to make the team better like Glenn, Gilmore, & others then go for it ! But if he won't then let him go else where !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Yep. Agreed. Guys have surgery for no reason. And usually just to dick over their teammates. It was an elective procedure. He got calf implants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midland Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 We need to get Watkins some help, that is for sure. I would agree take care of new #2, keep Woods as the #3, and Hogan maybe as a #4 (however I would bring in some competition and see if he can beat them out). As for Goodwin, time to move on... BTW what happened to seeing what Lewis has. If the Bills are going to improve this is an area that need to be upgraded, not huge changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 It was an elective procedure. He got calf implants. And a cankle reduction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) I think The Jerk Whisperer will find a new jerk to whisper to for next season. Edited December 28, 2015 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 He was a jerky teammate in Seattle but not sure I'd say he was a scumbag, which I reserve for off-field stuff, unless there's some other incidents I never heard. We saw no evidence of scumbag behavior this year. When he initially went out, I thought he was a crazy jerkoff but it turned out to be legit medical. He's been a bonafied scumbag his whole life. Hell no. Not worth a dime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 No. NO. !@#$ NO. And he can take Goodwin with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Rex said today Harvin wants to still play. There is no way we keep him at his contract. There is no way IMO anyone pays him a decent contract next year based on his injury history and production history and various other factors. Personally I would have no problem signing him to a smallish deal with incentives for games active, starts and production. I think he would entertain re-signing here. At 3m I still know it is a risk and less than 50% chance he plays 15-16 games but it's a risk I would take. I wouldn't want it to dissuade us from finding another #2 or #3 or #4 WR in FA or the draft though. And I totally understand why people would say no or not worth the risk. Base contract and incentive laden contract I'm good. Of course it was never clear why he suddenly went away this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Harvin has proven to be a talented head case who is injury prone. Not worth the aggravation. Let some other team deal with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Move on, cut our losses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 a skeleton made of glass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I'd let him go. If he signs any contract...anywhere...I imagine it will be incentive laden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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