Bills Cap Status - Approx $4.25 under cap 4/03/2024 (added roster change summary)

[Shaw66]

23 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

Yeah, you could actually witness some players slowing down as the season went on.

I'm of the mindset that once players start getting a little long in the tooth and can't perform to the highest level, you have to start letting these guys go......it's nothing personal, it's a business and a franchise that keeps personnel due to the fact that it becomes personal, isn't running their business effectively.

Yeah, I agree.  Belichick was the master at that.

 

Over the years, I've developed two general rules about player retention.   The rules are (1) let old talent go before they're done (only exception is a true franchise player who you drafted and who deserves to finish his career with your team), and (2) keep young talent until you're sure they've busted.   

 

It looks like Beane should have started on the old players a year ago, and done it a bit more gradually.  Had to keep Morse, because the middle of the line was so unsettled.  Had to keep White, because he could have come back and been a stud for several years.  McGovern, Torrence, and Douglas made them expendable this year.   Had to be Poyer last year, and Rapp could have taken on a bigger role more quickly. 

 

The best talent in free agency is first and second picks coming off their rookie deals, guys who have underperformed in some way, so their original team lets them walk.  Work ethic and team orientation are great, gotta have it, but there's no substitute for size, strength, speed, talent - the stuff you find in the first two rounds.   Elam is the current example of sticking with the underperforming young talent.   The Bills need to keep working with him and see how he develops.  Edmunds was the last example - Bills were sure about him by the time he left.  

 

 

[John from Riverside]

58 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

Yeah, you could actually witness some players slowing down as the season went on.

I'm of the mindset that once players start getting a little long in the tooth and can't perform to the highest level, you have to start letting these guys go......it's nothing personal, it's a business and a franchise that keeps personnel due to the fact that it becomes personal, isn't running their business effectively.

I doubt this was personal for Brandon. He was probably just trying to squeeze the last bit of juice out of the turnip.

[BuffaloBill]

54 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Is this the current cap with the Tre White release or without? Since the 10 million from Tre roles off after June 1 seems this would make them cap compliant before doing anything further 

 

 

Both sites list him as “active” so he is counting towards the cap projections provided.  So if nothing else happens they are cap “compliant” post June 1

[khlax3]

18 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Tre White $10 million doesn’t kick in until June 1st. Draft picks cost about $11 million if we keep all of them, so that’s a wash.

Even if we draft 11 players in the draft the picks will only cost between 4-5 million in cap space. 
 

round 1- 2.4 million

Round 2- 1.17 million

Round 3- 1.011 million

 

All other rounds are a minimum type salary. All of these players would replace existing minimum contracts on the roster and it would be a wash cap wise. Honestly if you drafted 11 players and they all made the team you might actually gain space as they would likely be replacing guys who make more than the rookie contracts 

[MAJBobby]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/von-miller-can-get-back-to-17-5-million-with-10-5-sacks

 

This breakdown Vons Paycut

[Buffalo_Stampede]

14 minutes ago, khlax3 said:

Even if we draft 11 players in the draft the picks will only cost between 4-5 million in cap space. 
 

round 1- 2.4 million

Round 2- 1.17 million

Round 3- 1.011 million

 

All other rounds are a minimum type salary. All of these players would replace existing minimum contracts on the roster and it would be a wash cap wise. Honestly if you drafted 11 players and they all made the team you might actually gain space as they would likely be replacing guys who make more than the rookie contracts 

Yes. Makes sense. Thank you.

[vtnatefootball11]

Details are out on Trubisky.  

 

2 year, $5.25m, with $2.7m guaranteed. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-ex-steelers-qb-mitchell-trubisky-agree-to-two-year-5-25-million-deal-per-report/

[pennstate10]

55 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/von-miller-can-get-back-to-17-5-million-with-10-5-sacks

 

This breakdown Vons Paycut

Thanks. Who determines whether an incentive is “not likely to be earned”?

 

Apparently, one of Vons incentives is 2 sacks. I would guess that is likely to be earned, based on his improved play, and likelihood for increased snaps this coming year. 

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

Thanks. Who determines whether an incentive is “not likely to be earned”?

 

Apparently, one of Vons incentives is 2 sacks. I would guess that is likely to be earned, based on his improved play, and likelihood for increased snaps this coming year. 

It’s based solely on the previous year, which is why it’s a popular cap tool for guys who were hurt the year before.  

[pennstate10]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

It’s based solely on the previous year, which is why it’s a popular cap tool for guys who were hurt the year before.  

Thanks!  That actually makes sense. 

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

Thanks. Who determines whether an incentive is “not likely to be earned”?

 

Apparently, one of Vons incentives is 2 sacks. I would guess that is likely to be earned, based on his improved play, and likelihood for increased snaps this coming year. 

 

People are getting this all confused.  Von redid this part of his contract along with the base pay cut.

Spotrac has it all defined.  There are no LTBE/NLTBE incentives.  It's plain and simple.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/von-miller-7717/

2024 Sack Incentives (non-cumulative)
2: $1M
4: $2.5M
6: $4M
8: $6M
10.5: $8.645M
15: $9.645M

$1.5M for an AFC Championship Win + 30%+ snaps + 12 regular season snaps

[ngbills]

48 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

Details are out on Trubisky.  

 

2 year, $5.25m, with $2.7m guaranteed. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-ex-steelers-qb-mitchell-trubisky-agree-to-two-year-5-25-million-deal-per-report/

Barf

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I’m gonna say that I think that Von Miller is going to return to some version of what he was and this will look like a smart deal

Well, yea, but I was replying to someone saying to restructure (or convert his salary to bonus) and not renegotiate (ie reduce his salary) 

 

even if von doesn’t return to form yesterdays deal is fine 

5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

People are getting this all confused.  Von redid this part of his contract along with the base pay cut.

Spotrac has it all defined.  There are no LTBE/NLTBE incentives.  It's plain and simple.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/von-miller-7717/

2024 Sack Incentives (non-cumulative)
2: $1M
4: $2.5M
6: $4M
8: $6M
10.5: $8.645M
15: $9.645M

$1.5M for an AFC Championship Win + 30%+ snaps + 12 regular season snaps

all incentives are either likely or unlikely to be earned for accounting purposes 

[Tuco]

10 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

Thanks. Who determines whether an incentive is “not likely to be earned”?

 

Apparently, one of Vons incentives is 2 sacks. I would guess that is likely to be earned, based on his improved play, and likelihood for increased snaps this coming year. 

 

It's all spelled out in the CBA. Everything fits into a category one way or another so there's nobody subjectively saying, well he'll probably get 2 sacks so we'll make LTBE. Generally (but certainly not always) if a player didn't get the stat the year before then its considered NLTBE. In this case, since he got zero sacks last year all sack incentives are NLTBE.

7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

People are getting this all confused.  Von redid this part of his contract along with the base pay cut.

Spotrac has it all defined.  There are no LTBE/NLTBE incentives.  It's plain and simple.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/von-miller-7717/

2024 Sack Incentives (non-cumulative)
2: $1M
4: $2.5M
6: $4M
8: $6M
10.5: $8.645M
15: $9.645M

$1.5M for an AFC Championship Win + 30%+ snaps + 12 regular season snaps

Actually, according to the rules spelled out in the CBA, those are all NLTBE incentives. Meaning, none of those incentives will count against the salary cap this year. And any of them that are reached will be charged against next year's cap. 

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

all incentives are either likely or unlikely to be earned for accounting purposes 

 

None of his incentives are on the books for the 2024 season.  

He converted $8.645M into this incentive.  So, if you want to go with what you are saying, they are all NLTBE.

[babulator]

I'm no cap wizard and I've seen it covered different ways, but this sounds good.

 

Edited March 7 by babulator

[klos63]

4 minutes ago, babulator said:

I'm no cap wizard and I've seen it covered different ways, but this sounds good.

 

It definitely sounds good,  but take into account FA signings,  Rousseau needs a new deal,  Brown needs one,  I'm probably missing someone,  but it's still a good place to be considering the past few seasons. 

[MAJBobby]

Lots of articles written today about Beanes Busy Day

 

https://www.spotrac.com/news/detailing-buffalos-12-player-move-day-2213/

[BuffaloBill]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Lots of articles written today about Beanes Busy Day

 

https://www.spotrac.com/news/detailing-buffalos-12-player-move-day-2213/

 

Thank you for posting as it is a very good summary of multiple moves.  Beane is earring his paycheck.

[GASabresIUFan]

3 hours ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

Mods can we get this thread pinned (or otherwise merge the first page with the running cap thread)? The cap thread that is pinned doesn't have a running list of transactions. 

I fully agree!

 

I've updated the OP with the contract info, but cap hit still not clear.

[Mango]

47 minutes ago, Tuco said:

 

It's all spelled out in the CBA. Everything fits into a category one way or another so there's nobody subjectively saying, well he'll probably get 2 sacks so we'll make LTBE. Generally (but certainly not always) if a player didn't get the stat the year before then its considered NLTBE. In this case, since he got zero sacks last year all sack incentives are NLTBE.

Actually, according to the rules spelled out in the CBA, those are all NLTBE incentives. Meaning, none of those incentives will count against the salary cap this year. And any of them that are reached will be charged against next year's cap. 

 

Under both contracts the Bills save cap space by cutting Von at camp. But now he costs the team far less cash out of pocket even if he plays lights out. If Von still looks stiff like last year he can still be cut to save the cap space/roll over. But keeping him on the roster becomes easier to swallow which is beneficial to all parties.  

I think part of this is Von betting on himself. But part of it is also to incentivize the team to keep him on the roster. 12 sacks at $27M is bad. 12 sacks at $15M is better. Even if the Bills move on next year (which I think is likely), hitting the market after over performing vs. underperforming makes a world of difference. 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

Well, yea, but I was replying to someone saying to restructure (or convert his salary to bonus) and not renegotiate (ie reduce his salary) 

 

even if von doesn’t return to form yesterdays deal is fine 

all incentives are either likely or unlikely to be earned for accounting purposes 

 

37 minutes ago, babulator said:

I'm no cap wizard and I've seen it covered different ways, but this sounds good.

 

Let's withhold judgement until after FA.

[Tuco]

38 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Under both contracts the Bills save cap space by cutting Von at camp. But now he costs the team far less cash out of pocket even if he plays lights out. If Von still looks stiff like last year he can still be cut to save the cap space/roll over. But keeping him on the roster becomes easier to swallow which is beneficial to all parties.  

I think part of this is Von betting on himself. But part of it is also to incentivize the team to keep him on the roster. 12 sacks at $27M is bad. 12 sacks at $15M is better. Even if the Bills move on next year (which I think is likely), hitting the market after over performing vs. underperforming makes a world of difference. 

Thanks. I get all that. I was simply responding to the poster that wanted to know who gets to decide if the incentives are LTBE or NLTBE. The CBA clearly establishes which is which. There is no subjectivity to it as the poster suggested.

Edited March 7 by Tuco

[SoCal Deek]

We’ve gotten so used to these o rely inflated numbers but am I right in reading that his new incentive deal equates to more or less $1,000,000 per sack? I mean, really? 

[Tuco]

24 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

We’ve gotten so used to these o rely inflated numbers but am I right in reading that his new incentive deal equates to more or less $1,000,000 per sack? I mean, really? 

That's technically true. But the alternative was to leave that $8+ million as salary. And if he still didn't produce he would have gotten the money even if he didn't get a single sack. Perspective.

[vtnatefootball11]

Mods can we get the "Cap Moves so far" thread merged with this thread (or also separately pinned?) There is no running list of transactions on the first page of this one, which is useful to see aside from where the cap is at currently. 

[Steptide]

27 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

We’ve gotten so used to these o rely inflated numbers but am I right in reading that his new incentive deal equates to more or less $1,000,000 per sack? I mean, really? 

If I had my way, I'd make almost every single contract incentive based. 

[GASabresIUFan]

https://theathletic.com/5238669/2024/02/02/buffalo-bills-offseason-salary-cap/

 

According to my calculations (& spotrac), the Bills still needs to do about 30+ million is cap reduction to get roster complete.

 

I checked what Beane has done and compared it to the 15 point plan in the Athletic

1.  Restructure Josh's deal - Not yet announced.  Apprx 23 million in potential cap savings

2. Don't restructure Diggs' deal  (Cover 1 says re-structure the deal) - I agree with Cover1.  Potential $8 million in savings

3. Don't restructure Miller - The Bills worked with Miller on a pay reduction and saved over $8.5 million

4. Restructure White - The Bills are cutting him 6/1 saving $10 million

5. Restructure Douglas - Done

6. Restructure Knox - Not yet done.  Potential savings 5.86 million

7. Add void years to Morse - Nope, the Bills cut him instead.

8. Restructure McGovern - Done

9. Pay cut for Hines - Nope, released instead.

10. Restructure Milano - Not done yet

11. Restructure Bates - Nope, traded instead.

12. Restructure Poyer - Nope, released instead.

13. Pay cut for Harty - Nope, released instead.

14. Extend Taron Johnson - Not done yet

15. Extend Dawkins - Not Done yet

other - Cover1 suggested extending Oliver and the Bills also cut Neal

 

Looking at this list, there is a ton of moves still available to Beane to get some cash to spend on FAs.

Edited March 7 by GASabresIUFan

[JohnBonhamRocks]

3 minutes ago, Steptide said:

If I had my way, I'd make almost every single contract incentive based. 

Right? I saw the post you replied to and thought I’d pay a DE $1M/sack

[SoCal Deek]

12 minutes ago, Tuco said:

That's technically true. But the alternative was to leave that $8+ million as salary. And if he still didn't produce he would have gotten the money even if he didn't get a single sack. Perspective.

Not saying the new deal isn’t better than the old one….but come on! $1M per sack…..sheesh 

[Chandler#81]

 

[Saint Douggie]

*farts*

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

Barf

Explain? I mean I wanted Blaine Gabbert but is that better than Mitchell 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

39 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Not saying the new deal isn’t better than the old one….but come on! $1M per sack…..sheesh 

If it’s a sack of Mahomes in say, the 2024 season AFCCG to close out the game and pave the road to the Super Bowl, I’ll gladly have Terry fork over a couple mill while we’re at it! 

[SoonerBillsFan]

I just saw that NFL Good morning football had to do the obligatory "has the Bills window closed" Bull ****.  It wasn't until a couple years ago I heard everyone saying "run it back" and "Windows closing" BS. 

 

As long as we have Josh Allen we have a chance at anything. There are no windows etc. 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

We’ve gotten so used to these o rely inflated numbers but am I right in reading that his new incentive deal equates to more or less $1,000,000 per sack? I mean, really? 

 

People need to understand that Von needed to have some motive to agree to this.  This incentive allows him to earn more than his previous contract and also gives the Bills a whole lot of CAP savings this year.  If he gets all those sacks, we're on the hook next year and, frankly, Von is likely still on the team.

[Mark Vader]

3 hours ago, klos63 said:

It definitely sounds good,  but take into account FA signings,  Rousseau needs a new deal,  Brown needs one,  I'm probably missing someone,  but it's still a good place to be considering the past few seasons. 

Having the money available to re-sign your own players is very good.

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFan said:

https://theathletic.com/5238669/2024/02/02/buffalo-bills-offseason-salary-cap/

 

According to my calculations (& spotrac), the Bills still needs to do about 30+ million is cap reduction to get roster complete.

 

I checked what Beane and has and compared it to the 15 point plan in the Athletic

1.  Restructure Josh's deal - Not yet announced.  Apprx 23 million in potential cap savings

2. Don't restructure Diggs' deal  (Cover 1 says re-structure the deal) - I agree with Cover1.  Potential $8 million in savings

3. Don't restructure Miller - The Bills worked with Miller on a pay reduction and saved over $8.5 million

4. Restructure White - The Bills are cutting him 6/1 saving $10 million

5. Restructure Douglas - Done

6. Restructure Knox - Not yet done.  Potential savings 5.86 million

7. Add void years to Morse - Nope, the Bills cut him instead.

8. Restructure McGovern - Done

9. Pay cut for Hines - Nope, released instead.

10. Restructure Milano - Not done yet

11. Restructure Bates - Nope, traded instead.

12. Restructure Poyer - Nope, released instead.

13. Pay cut for Harty - Nope, released instead.

14. Extend Taron Johnson - Not done yet

15. Extend Dawkins - Not Done yet

other - Cover1 suggested extending Oliver and the Bills also cut Neal

 

Looking at this list, there is a ton of moves still available to Beane to get some cash to spend on FAs.

Do NOT touch Diggs deal. It gives us an out for next year in the form of a trade if need be. Right now he is nothing more than a high end #2, maybe if we hit in the draft that changes, maybe not. Either way do NOT extend this guy or kick his cap hit further down the road. We dont' need to. 

[CaptnCoke11]

3 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

Let's withhold judgement until after FA.

No he’s correct.  After this year the cap issue is over with 

[GASabresIUFan]

34 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Do NOT touch Diggs deal. It gives us an out for next year in the form of a trade if need be. Right now he is nothing more than a high end #2, maybe if we hit in the draft that changes, maybe not. Either way do NOT extend this guy or kick his cap hit further down the road. We dont' need to. 

Diggs' deal doesn't really give us an out in 2025.  His cap hit will be 27.3.  I agree this is excessive for any receiver, much less a potentially declining veteran. 

 

However:

1)  We are already on the positive side of the ledger for next season (about 30 million) and therefore some have room to work.

2) His dead cap hit will still be 22.2 million.  The cap savings is only 5 million.  I doubt Beane wants to basically have an approx 9% of the cap dead before he makes other decisions.  I also doubt you get a quality receiver to replace Diggs' production for $5 million.

3) A June 1 designation would save 18.5 million, but would push 18.5 to 2026 and I don't think Beane will want to that either with only 11 players current under contract for 2026.

4) What happens if he excels under Brady's new system with another 90 catch 1000 yard season.  How do you replace that output?

 

2026 makes much for sense

1) His cap number grows to 28.5

2) His dead cap would only be 13.4 (and 15 in 2027). Cap Savings 15.1

3) June 1 - 8.8 with 19.5 in 2027

 

If you move say 8 million of his 18.5 base to a bonus, you can save 6 this season, while only adding 2 to 2025 and 4 to 2026 assuming he is cut after the 2025 season.

Edited March 7 by GASabresIUFan