Wizard Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Jerry "Freakin" Rice never won a regular season MVP. Drew Brees, Randy Moss, and Roger Staubach did not either. Yes, the Super Bowl win and SB MVP is most important. Still, I am wondering who can honestly vote for Lamar Jackson to win a 2nd MVP when Josh Allen is significantly more valuable than Lamar. And, it is just criminal if Lamar had 2 MVP's when the two best WR's (imo) did not win one combined in Rice and Moss. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Rice or Moss never won it? That’s pretty insane 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I could be wrong and I'm too hammered/lazy to google it right now but I could've sworn Jerry Rice has won an MVP before?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bferra13 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Should go to Allen this year, but we all know it prolly won't. Good breakdown: 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 3 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said: I could be wrong and I'm too hammered/lazy to google it right now but I could've sworn Jerry Rice has won an MVP before?? Not AP MVP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 13 wins in 16 games is enough for Lamar to beat out Josh for MVP. That and too many turnovers for Josh. Lamar can have the MVP as long as Josh is Super Bowl MVP. 4 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Yeah, the voting is kinda BS. But it has next to zero effect on a player's legacy, as demonstrated by the examples you gave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sven233 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Allen should win MVP. We'd have like 4-5 wins at most without him. He won't win it, but he should. Just need him to win Super Bowl MVP and we'll all be good with that. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Josh could throw 50 tds but if he has 15 ints the world comes to an end as we know it. Plus what moron decided the mvp voting ends at week 18. Just more dumb nonsensical stuff. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, Albany,n.y. said: 13 wins in 16 games is enough for Lamar to beat out Josh for MVP. That and too many turnovers for Josh. Lamar can have the MVP as long as Josh is Super Bowl MVP. Wins aren't a QB stat, even though people like to act like they are. Similar to people always saying it's "QB vs QB"... People are just way to enamored with QBs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Only care about Lombardi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: Josh could throw 50 tds but if he has 15 ints the world comes to an end as we know it. Plus what moron decided the mvp voting ends at week 18. Just more dumb nonsensical stuff. You have to end it at the regular season. It's a regular season award. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: Wins aren't a QB stat, even though people like to act like they are. Similar to people always saying it's "QB vs QB"... People are just way to enamored with QBs. They actually are. Open the link & for the year by year career stats, it lists QBrec, Quarterback Record https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 15 minutes ago, Wizard said: Jerry "Freakin" Rice never won a regular season MVP. Drew Brees, Randy Moss, and Roger Staubach did not either. Yes, the Super Bowl win and SB MVP is most important. Still, I am wondering who can honestly vote for Lamar Jackson to win a 2nd MVP when Josh Allen is significantly more valuable than Lamar. And, it is just criminal if Lamar had 2 MVP's when the two best WR's (imo) did not win one combined in Rice and Moss. Especially since Allen's 2020 season was better in every way than Lamar's 2019 season where he was unanimous MVP and Allen lost our to an Aaron Rodgers all time season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) It was and always is anybody but Josh. Half the people hyped up over Josh this year are out of the playoffs. The other half haven't played yet. Wouldn't shock me if Lamar was 1 and done again either. Is what it is. I dont even really care. I want a SB. 3 to go baby! Edited January 16 by Scott7975 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 4 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said: They actually are. Open the link & for the year by year career stats, it lists QBrec, Quarterback Record https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm The point is you can do that for any position. It's not QB-specific. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBFL Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Allen. But JJ Watt coming in second to AP and that monster season for the Vikes is worth consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 33 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: The point is you can do that for any position. It's not QB-specific. It's only on QBs. Here, look at Diggs-not there. It IS a QB specific stat. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DiggSt00.htm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBFL Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 48 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: Josh could throw 50 tds but if he has 15 ints the world comes to an end as we know it. Plus what moron decided the mvp voting ends at week 18. Just more dumb nonsensical stuff. For fairness to those who were pipped at the end of the season? Guy could be average, go on a tear and win SB. Philly just did it with Foles. Allen hasn’t won it since 2020. These past 4 seasons are all reasonable cases that should qualify him for MVP at least once. Hasn’t happened. Let’s focus on the SB’s and SBMVPs instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 59 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said: I could be wrong and I'm too hammered/lazy to google it right now but I could've sworn Jerry Rice has won an MVP before?? Superbowl MVP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 He put up MVP numbers in 2020 but Aaron Rodgers was unreal that year. He's had some bad luck this year. His three interception game came on the first game of the year on MNF. He also had some really bad luck on interceptions as it seems there weren't hardly any drops by CB's like you see with other QB's. Both helped fuel the turnover machine narrative. He takes more chances than most QB's but not to the extent the national media portrays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 7 hours ago, BruceVilanch said: Superbowl MVP I knew that he won that for sure but I really thought he won a regular season MVP in the late 80s but I am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) Drew Brees' 2011 season has to be #1 on the list. 110 passer rating A ridiculous 82 QBR and lead his team to a 13-3 record. 47 total TD's and over 5,500 total yards. He loss to Rodgers who lead the Packers to a 15-1 record, 122 passer rating and 83 QBR. Edited January 16 by Sammy Watkins' Rib Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Personally, I love Josh getting snubbed for everything. Snubbed on the MVP voting. Snubbed for the Pro Bowl. Snubbed for the All Pro team. It's great. I hope they keep pissing him off at every turn. That's been the story of his life and the source of the chip on his shoulder since HS. Go out there, flex on all of them, and get the ONLY trophy that matters. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I’ve heard it speculated that Aaron Rodgers wouldn’t attempt higher-risk throws in clutch situations because he didn’t want to risk high INT counts that could disrupt his MVP chances. Which tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epstein's Mother Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 9 hours ago, LeGOATski said: Wins aren't a QB stat, even though people like to act like they are. Similar to people always saying it's "QB vs QB"... People are just way to enamored with QBs. Yeah, I agree it's not like they touch the ball on virtually every offensive play ... oh wait ... never mind. Edited January 16 by Epstein's Mother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 8 hours ago, Doc Brown said: He put up MVP numbers in 2020 but Aaron Rodgers was unreal that year. He's had some bad luck this year. His three interception game came on the first game of the year on MNF. He also had some really bad luck on interceptions as it seems there weren't hardly any drops by CB's like you see with other QB's. Both helped fuel the turnover machine narrative. He takes more chances than most QB's but not to the extent the national media portrays. I dont have PFF but i believe his turnover worthy throw rate is down a good bit. hes just gotten super unlucky on tipped balls and other weird things (taking away drops he is also the most efficient which is crazy). Overall, yeah hes getting screwed by the "narrative." 3 minutes ago, Epstein's Mother said: Yeah, I agree it's not like the touch the ball on every offensive play ... oh wait ... never mind. By this logic you think Stafford became a much better QB when we went to LAR. Cause his W/L record is so much better than when he was in Det. So as W/L is a QB stat as said he mustve really regressed just before he was traded. Or maybe hes always been good and the team around him was garbage a few of those years so QB W/L record is not a good stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 9 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said: It's only on QBs. Here, look at Diggs-not there. It IS a QB specific stat. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DiggSt00.htm See my comment above. If you think QB W/L record is a QB stat, which implies to me that you think it defines how good a QB is playing, then you mustve thought Stafford got a so much better when he went to the Rams. Just a crazy career resurgence to go from 5-11 to 12-5 means he must have completely changed his game around (this is sarcasm he was pretty much the same player he was the previous 12 years). PFR might not give you the W/L record for every position but you can do the same exercise. Did you see that steelers were 1-11 without watt coming into this game? Its just that analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I have absolutely no idea why Jackson is being viewed as having an MVP season other than marketing purposes. CMC, Cheetah, and Dak are all more deserving. I think Allen is the only player in history to have 40+ TDs and NOT win MVP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epstein's Mother Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 24 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said: I dont have PFF but i believe his turnover worthy throw rate is down a good bit. hes just gotten super unlucky on tipped balls and other weird things (taking away drops he is also the most efficient which is crazy). Overall, yeah hes getting screwed by the "narrative." By this logic you think Stafford became a much better QB when we went to LAR. Cause his W/L record is so much better than when he was in Det. So as W/L is a QB stat as said he mustve really regressed just before he was traded. Or maybe hes always been good and the team around him was garbage a few of those years so QB W/L record is not a good stat. I think Matthew Stafford is the same QB now that he was in Detroit. I'm simply saying that a huge amount of a teams success is predicated on the play of it's QB. Which position do you think is more important? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 4 minutes ago, Epstein's Mother said: I think Matthew Stafford is the same QB now that he was in Detroit. I'm simply saying that a huge amount of a teams success is predicated on the play of it's QB. Which position do you think is more important? 100% agree its hugely important to W/L which is often why its assigned to QB. It does matter more than any other position, but it is still a team stat. So winning MVP because youre team is really good (49ers, Ravens) and youre the QB doesnt seem correct. Look at the QB specific numbers at least. Give me 4th quarter comebacks (of which josh has 8 this year, but the defense let 4 become L's) which is also a bit of a team thing but is definitely more QB focused cause it takes away defense and special teams (besides the GW FG). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Josh will have a tough time winning an MVP because of the turnovers his critics will say. Josh makes many more good/great plays for the Bills then bad ones but he has a reputation as a turnover machine. Whether that is fair or not it is what it is. If he could cut down on the TO's while still producing the TD's that he does, then he will have a good chance to win it. For me personally I could care less if he wins the MVP award or not. Just win the Super Bowl. If he wins the Super Bowl MVP, then that would be pretty cool as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 28 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: I have absolutely no idea why Jackson is being viewed as having an MVP season other than marketing purposes. CMC, Cheetah, and Dak are all more deserving. I think Allen is the only player in history to have 40+ TDs and NOT win MVP. QB and best player on the best team (1 seed in harder conference and pummeled the 1 seed in the other conference, both could rest week 18). All of that is team stuff to me. Lol allen being the only player with 40 TDs and being the only non winner (i need to check that) cause hes done 4 times!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epstein's Mother Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, YattaOkasan said: So winning MVP because youre team is really good (49ers, Ravens) and youre the QB doesnt seem correct. I completely agree. How could Brock Purdy be considered the front runner for MVP a few weeks ago when he had CMC in the backfield with him? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew21PA Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 What’s criminal is Dallas getting all those all pro nods. like come on be subjective record means crap when your competition is terrible and you play terrible against equal or better competiton Same can be said about Lamar winning 13 ganes whatever his competitors weren’t really up to speed in not like everyone else in fhis i don’t think San Fran is that big and scary either - I don’t think Baltimore makes it out this weekend against the texans so we BETTER beat down the chiefs because it’s gonna be the winner of this goes to the sb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 37 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: I have absolutely no idea why Jackson is being viewed as having an MVP season other than marketing purposes. CMC, Cheetah, and Dak are all more deserving. I think Allen is the only player in history to have 40+ TDs and NOT win MVP. Nope. Brees had a MONSTER 46TD, 5,500 yard 110 passer rating and 82 QBR season in 2011 while leading the Saints to a 13-3 record and loss to a 15-1 Arron Rodgers lead Packers team. Rodges has spoiled several great MVP deserving seasons from other QB's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 6 minutes ago, Drew21PA said: What’s criminal is Dallas getting all those all pro nods. like come on be subjective record means crap when your competition is terrible and you play terrible against equal or better competiton Same can be said about Lamar winning 13 ganes whatever his competitors weren’t really up to speed in not like everyone else in fhis i don’t think San Fran is that big and scary either - I don’t think Baltimore makes it out this weekend against the texans so we BETTER beat down the chiefs because it’s gonna be the winner of this goes to the sb I would love to see the Texans pull off the upset but a young team on the road with a rookie QB (who has played very well) winning at Baltimore. I don't see it happening. Hope it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 10 hours ago, Wizard said: Jerry "Freakin" Rice never won a regular season MVP. Drew Brees, Randy Moss, and Roger Staubach did not either. Yes, the Super Bowl win and SB MVP is most important. Still, I am wondering who can honestly vote for Lamar Jackson to win a 2nd MVP when Josh Allen is significantly more valuable than Lamar. And, it is just criminal if Lamar had 2 MVP's when the two best WR's (imo) did not win one combined in Rice and Moss. I'm sure all the fans in Baltimore would agree with you. The simple question to answer is if Josh Allen is significantly more valuable, why did he manage to lose two more games and likely had been three if last game mattered to Ravens. Take the Denver, NE, Jax games. If the Bills had won two of them good chance then Allen would be the MVP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 10 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Josh could throw 50 tds but if he has 15 ints the world comes to an end as we know it. Plus what moron decided the mvp voting ends at week 18. Just more dumb nonsensical stuff. I really think he’s rewriting the analytics of football. He’s so good at picking spots to take shots where even an INT doesn’t hurt terribly this season that it kind of makes me chuckle when people just talk about his total INT number. Not all ints are created equal hes giving his guys shots to make plays for pretty low risk on the majority of his ints it feels like 5 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: I'm sure all the fans in Baltimore would agree with you. The simple question to answer is if Josh Allen is significantly more valuable, why did he manage to lose two more games and likely had been three if last game mattered to Ravens. Take the Denver, NE, Jax games. If the Bills had won two of them good chance then Allen would be the MVP. Bills had the worst defense in the league for that stretch you mentioned…that jags game decimated the team until Douglas got acclimated and righted the ship a little bit send Lamar’s number 1 ranked defense on a 1 month vacation and he’d have less wins too Edited January 16 by Generic_Bills_Fan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Are these awards announced after the Superbowl? Are they supposed to be based on the regular season only or playoffs too? I ask out of financial interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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