Greenberg - A Jets Fan - Pushing Back Against The Allen Hate

[PatsFanNH]

19 hours ago, Success said:

I try to be objective when it comes to Mahomes & Allen comparisons.  But since they both started, I think it's fairly obvious:  when Mahomes doesn't play well, it's excuse city. When Allen doesn't play well, it's, a ha!  We were right about him on draft day.

 

Mahomes has earned his excuse making.. 3 SB appearances and 2 SB titles. Allen doesn’t have a resume even close to that yet.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 hours ago, boyst said:

Eli was a very good QB. Among the top 5 in his era over shadowed by Brady, Peyton, and others. I think he had more talent then Brees, Ryan, Rodgers, and many others.

 

He and Rivers do not get enough respect for how talented they were because of the bad teams they were on but both elevated their teams. 

They went all in to support him. The defense played insanely good. They squeezed out lucky games. They were overrated. 

 

Do they win a super bowl with Winston?  No.  

 

They were 3rd in yards/points in 2019, and 1st in passing yards.  However they were last in the league in turnovers.  

 

With Brady, the sack rate improved from 7% to 3.3%.  So half as many sacks.

INT rate went from 4.8% to 2.0%.  About 60% drop off in turnovers.  

TD rate went from 5.3% to 6.6%.  

Completion % went from 60.7% to 65.7%. 

AY/A went from 7.1 to 8.0.  

Drop rate increased from 3.8% to 5.3% - more drops with brady than winston. 

Broken tackles decreased from 1 every 15.9 receptions, to 1 every 24.1 receptions.  More players broke tackles with Winston than Brady.  

[boyst]

32 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Do they win a super bowl with Winston?  No.  

 

They were 3rd in yards/points in 2019, and 1st in passing yards.  However they were last in the league in turnovers.  

 

With Brady, the sack rate improved from 7% to 3.3%.  So half as many sacks.

INT rate went from 4.8% to 2.0%.  About 60% drop off in turnovers.  

TD rate went from 5.3% to 6.6%.  

Completion % went from 60.7% to 65.7%. 

AY/A went from 7.1 to 8.0.  

Drop rate increased from 3.8% to 5.3% - more drops with brady than winston. 

Broken tackles decreased from 1 every 15.9 receptions, to 1 every 24.1 receptions.  More players broke tackles with Winston than Brady.  

pt brady on a bunch of other teams and they'd have never made it though

[zevo]

By all accounts, Allen seems like a great dude and teammate. I honestly do not understand the constant hate against him and media licking their lips for him to fail. Not sure if this is because every analyst that I can think of planted their flag that he would be an enormous bust in the NFL besides Mel Kiper. Allen does and says the right things but continues to be picked apart at every opportunity. One thing I do know is that there isn't a qb Id rather have on my team over Josh Allen. There is some bias cooked in there. 

[The Jokeman]

20 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re the one who made it racist first in this thread. Great work!

 

always those guys who claim everyone is too sensitive to race who are the first to bring up race. 
 

Jackson won a Heisman and was talked about not being good enough to be a qb in the nfl. Allen had a far worse resume in college yet was an easy top 10 pick. Jackson has won 70% and a mVp. He proved those idiots who questioned him as a morons. Allen has also far surpassed his expectations and become a top 3 qb in the nfl. 
 

you made it about race, 

also imagine crying about Buffalo not getting respect when we play 15 prime time games and are maybe the most popular team in commercials. Dumb take. 

You don’t understand why? And Allen gets criticized as a top 3 qb with crazy expectations. 
 

you really don’t think things would be the same for Mahomes if their careers were reversed?

Haha, this Board crapping on Lamar as much as they claim others crap on Allen. 

Since his MVP what has Lamar Jackson shown to be? An average at best passer and a phenomenal runner (at the QB position). He doesn't seem to elevate the players around him that much (which many think is the mark of a good QB). My primary example is John Brown who had better stats under Josh Allen than Lamar.  The reason I and others crap on Lamar as people want to applaud him as a runner but ignore his poor performance as a passer with respect to passing yards and TDs. which to me are what a QB is supposed to do. Toss in his inability to remain healthy inpart because he's smaller frame and taking hits both as a runner and subpar passing skills force him to take more hits than needed. 

[ChrisWatson#21]

Because he would love for the Jets to have him at QB and knkws how good Josh really is.  He is as humble as any media guy you will find.  

[Success]

51 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Mahomes has earned his excuse making.. 3 SB appearances and 2 SB titles. Allen doesn’t have a resume even close to that yet.  

 

Is this golf we're talking about then?

 

Team game, Pats fan.  

 

[CincyBillsFan]

34 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Since his MVP what has Lamar Jackson shown to be? An average at best passer and a phenomenal runner (at the QB position). He doesn't seem to elevate the players around him that much (which many think is the mark of a good QB). My primary example is John Brown who had better stats under Josh Allen than Lamar.  The reason I and others crap on Lamar as people want to applaud him as a runner but ignore his poor performance as a passer with respect to passing yards and TDs. which to me are what a QB is supposed to do. Toss in his inability to remain healthy inpart because he's smaller frame and taking hits both as a runner and subpar passing skills force him to take more hits than needed. 

I agree.  There were two QB's from the 2018 draft who succeeded beyond anyone's wildest expectations and that was Lamar Jackson & Josh Allen. But it's obvious to anyone paying attention that if Allen had performed like Jackson in the playoffs he would be mercilessly attacked.  Specifically:

 

*  if Allen was 1 - 3 in the playoffs and had played average to poorly in all 4 playoff games imagine the crap he would be getting.

 

*  If Allen had gotten injured and missed critical late season and playoff games imagine the crap he would be getting.

 

 

[McBean]

On 12/6/2023 at 2:21 PM, H2o said:

I found this interesting. And of course the rest of the ESPN 🤡's yuck it up a bit later in the segment, but this has been my stance on Josh for forever. All of the idiots with an ax to grind continually spew the same crap, on their same crap shows, pandering to their same crap audience. Josh is a top 2-5 QB in this league, 5 being the absolute basement. They constantly act like he is the one costing this team W's. They don't talk about the 3 games he's led his team to a lead in the final 2 minutes, only to have McDermott's defense piss it away. No, it's his 1 INT two quarters before that which caused them to lose. Idiots. This team would have, AT THE MOST, 3 wins this year without him. At the most. Allen is not blameless. He's not perfect. But let's not act like he's not out here setting records in history of the NFL for things like total TD's, completing 68% of his passes this year, and leading the league in total TD's. 

 

 

Mic. 
 

Drop.

[Albany,n.y.]

17 hours ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

There's nothing ridiculous about it. Compare how objectively good QBs with great stats like Allen and Cousins are criticized endlessly while a below-average one like Justin Fields is never held to the fire for poor performances and even gushed over.

 

The bias is real, despite it being a truth you find inconvenient.

To put Cousins & Allen in the same sentence is ridiculous.  Allen is a great player on the field while Cousins is only good on paper-watch him fold up against good teams some day & put away your stats.  

The only inconvenient truth is your own bias Patrickkk.  

 

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, Success said:

 

Is this golf we're talking about then?

 

Team game, Pats fan.  

 

Doesn’t matter if you like it or not. The fact is the QB gets more blame for losses and more accolades for the team success.  
 

For example, the :13 second loss the Bills had to KC. Every Non Bills fan pretty much says “wow look how awesome Mahomes is he got them in FG range in less than 13 seconds!” Hardly annyone outside of Bills fans say anything differently. 

This Mahomes in most people’s eyes has earned a mulligan for an off year and or placing the blame elsewhere. 

 

[Success]

10 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Doesn’t matter if you like it or not. The fact is the QB gets more blame for losses and more accolades for the team success.  
 

For example, the :13 second loss the Bills had to KC. Every Non Bills fan pretty much says “wow look how awesome Mahomes is he got them in FG range in less than 13 seconds!” Hardly annyone outside of Bills fans say anything differently. 

This Mahomes in most people’s eyes has earned a mulligan for an off year and or placing the blame elsewhere. 

 

 

I mentioned this to another poster on this thread: you are talking about perception.  I am talking about reality.

 

[Not Applicable]

1 hour ago, Albany,n.y. said:

To put Cousins & Allen in the same sentence is ridiculous.  Allen is a great player on the field while Cousins is only good on paper-watch him fold up against good teams some day & put away your stats.  

The only inconvenient truth is your own bias Patrickkk.  

 

Is Cousins better than Fields, yes or no? Who gets clowned on and who gets praised? Exactly, dork.

[Not Applicable]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’ll just keep coming with the unpopular opinions! Kelly is one of the most overrated Qbs in nfl history! He was so bad in the playoffs. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KellJi00/gamelog/post/  More ints than tds and a 72.3 rating. If you switched Marino on those absolutely loaded Bills team, we win multiple SBs. If Kelly checked his ego and ran Thurman 30 times in the first SB, they win that one.

The same Dan Marino who never won a playoff game in cold weather and was 0-3 versus Kelly in the postseason? Okay.

 

By this logic, Barry Sanders is REALLY overrated since he has an atrocious postseason resume.

[Albany,n.y.]

10 minutes ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

Is Cousins better than Fields, yes or no? Who gets clowned on and who gets praised? Exactly, dork.

Fields isn't getting praised anymore. Some clowns overrated him in preseason & have completely shut their mouths because the Bears are who the rest of us thought they were.  

How many mock drafts can you find that have the Bears not selecting a QB to replace Fields?  Virtually none! 

Comparing Cousins to anyone a lot better or a lot worse is ridiculous.  He's a paper tiger.  His on-field performance does not match his stats, as do many NFL QBs because QB stats are trash.  

 

[AlfaBill]

I place no credence in anything MSM including sports, opinions. They are worthless for the most part trying to bait people into clicks because that’s how they get paid. In the end, most if not all GMs would take Allen over ANY QB in the league right now.
And a good portion would take him over Patty as well. (not all but some )

Edited December 8, 2023 by AlfaBill

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, zevo said:

By all accounts, Allen seems like a great dude and teammate. I honestly do not understand the constant hate against him and media licking their lips for him to fail. Not sure if this is because every analyst that I can think of planted their flag that he would be an enormous bust in the NFL besides Mel Kiper. Allen does and says the right things but continues to be picked apart at every opportunity. One thing I do know is that there isn't a qb Id rather have on my team over Josh Allen. There is some bias cooked in there. 

It's BFLo hate. People in general like to pile on.

[Don Otreply]

On 12/6/2023 at 5:24 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

He has amongst the worst takes on this board and I am honestly convinced he actually isn't a Bills fan and just masquerading as one here to troll.  

 

It either that or he just actually knows nothing about Football.

 

Either could be true, or even both.  

Both, 

[Chicken Boo]

9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Never said he shouldnt be praised. Mahomes is absolutely deserving of every worshipping comment.

 

The point is that both QBs are worthy of praise and both are worthy of criticism. But what we get is 90% criticism of Allen, and 99% praise of Mahomes.

 

If winning a Super Bowl makes it so no one ever criticizes your play again, and other QBs will be only criticized until they win a Super Bowl, then the commentary and analysis isnt worth jack squat (not that it means much in the grand scheme of the world anyways).

 

Yall know how this works.  It's nothing new.  Peyton Manning received far more criticism than Brady ever did.  

 

PEYTON MANNING!  

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

The same Dan Marino who never won a playoff game in cold weather and was 0-3 versus Kelly in the postseason? Okay.

 

By this logic, Barry Sanders is REALLY overrated since he has an atrocious postseason resume.

Learn to read. Put Marino on the bills, a much, much more talented roster, we win multiple SBs.

7 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Since his MVP what has Lamar Jackson shown to be? An average at best passer and a phenomenal runner (at the QB position). He doesn't seem to elevate the players around him that much (which many think is the mark of a good QB). My primary example is John Brown who had better stats under Josh Allen than Lamar.  The reason I and others crap on Lamar as people want to applaud him as a runner but ignore his poor performance as a passer with respect to passing yards and TDs. which to me are what a QB is supposed to do. Toss in his inability to remain healthy inpart because he's smaller frame and taking hits both as a runner and subpar passing skills force him to take more hits than needed. 

All that to ignore that Lamar has the third best mvp odds currently. But great post. 

8 hours ago, cisco2403 said:

The very video that is in the first post kind of refutes what you are saying that there is no debate outside of here on who is better. When Greenberg says, if Allen were to land with the Chiefs and Andy Reid, the roles would be reversed. 

I mean that’s completely unprovable. Reid compare before and after Mahkmes.

 

allen is awesome but he’s not to Mahkmes yet. It’s insane to even keep discussing it at this point. And it’s hilarious that you a f like it’s magic Mahomes ended up on the chiefs in the first place. They targeted him and traded up to take him.  They wanted him badly 

[C.Biscuit97]

13 hours ago, boyst said:

the nuanced difference between cam and lamar is magnificent. especially on a pure passing talent level. newton was able to get away with many things because of olsen and smith being great targets for him while lamar in his prime and at times this year has been finding windows that newton never could.

 

i hate that both of these guys are lumped in the same pot because ...[insert comment here]... because it's not fair. they're quite a bit different.

Cam won his mvp and went to the SB with Ted’ Ginn as his number one receiver. He also set nfl rookie passing records. He was awesome until the injuries caught up. 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Cam won his mvp and went to the SB with Ted’ Ginn as his number one receiver. He also set nfl rookie passing records. He was awesome until the injuries caught up. 

Wasn't Smith there???!??  Am I that forgetful?

[daz28]

This guy couldn't be more right.  

[GoBills808]

46 minutes ago, boyst said:

Wasn't Smith there???!??  Am I that forgetful?

He only played w Smith for like one or two seasons iirc

Cam had some very subpar wideouts even tho Ricky Proehl claimed otherwise lol

[zow2]

Greeny doubled down this morning on Get UP.  He's sick of the Allen slander.  Pretty much did a monologue on all the amazing stats Josh Allen has put up this season and over the last 4 years.. and really only Mahomes comes close or bests him in a few of the categories.  He ended it by saying if they didn't have the idiotic 12-men against Denver and if Bass can hit FGs in Philadelphia, they'd be 8-4 and people would have JA in the MVP discussion.

[Man with No Name]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

Greeny doubled down this morning on Get UP.  He's sick of the Allen slander.  Pretty much did a monologue on all the amazing stats Josh Allen has put up this season and over the last 4 years.. and really only Mahomes comes close or bests him in a few of the categories.  He ended it by saying if they didn't have the idiotic 12-men against Denver and if Bass can hit FGs in Philadelphia, they'd be 8-4 and people would have JA in the MVP discussion.

[C.Biscuit97]

9 hours ago, boyst said:

Wasn't Smith there???!??  Am I that forgetful?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2015.htm
 

he had Olsen. And his leading receivers were Ginn and Jerchio Cotchery. 😂😂😂

3 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Greeny doubled down this morning on Get UP.  He's sick of the Allen slander.  Pretty much did a monologue on all the amazing stats Josh Allen has put up this season and over the last 4 years.. and really only Mahomes comes close or bests him in a few of the categories.  He ended it by saying if they didn't have the idiotic 12-men against Denver and if Bass can hit FGs in Philadelphia, they'd be 8-4 and people would have JA in the MVP discussion.

Agreed. Also could have beat the Pats and Jets where the offense was in snooze mode for an entire half. 

[H2o]

2 hours ago, zow2 said:

Greeny doubled down this morning on Get UP.  He's sick of the Allen slander.  Pretty much did a monologue on all the amazing stats Josh Allen has put up this season and over the last 4 years.. and really only Mahomes comes close or bests him in a few of the categories.  He ended it by saying if they didn't have the idiotic 12-men against Denver and if Bass can hit FGs in Philadelphia, they'd be 8-4 and people would have JA in the MVP discussion.

At least someone on one of these major networks will sack up against the rest of the idiots who spew the same nonsense on a day-to-day basis. 

[HappyDays]

 

[H2o]

The 🤡's being 🤡's (in the first 4 minutes). They bring up TO's that overall did not decide the outcome of the game. JA gets his team a lead in the last 2 minutes against the Pats. The defense pisses it away. Josh Allen gets his team a lead in the last 2 minutes against the Broncos. The defense and ST piss it away. They don't mention that at all. It's just "his turnovers, his turnovers, they treat Lamar different," blah, blah, blah.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

14 minutes ago, H2o said:

The 🤡's being 🤡's (in the first 4 minutes). They bring up TO's that overall did not decide the outcome of the game. JA gets his team a lead in the last 2 minutes against the Pats. The defense pisses it away. Josh Allen gets his team a lead in the last 2 minutes against the Broncos. The defense and ST piss it away. They don't mention that at all. It's just "his turnovers, his turnovers, they treat Lamar different," blah, blah, blah.

 

 

The first thing I see is 4 African Americans disparaging JA.  What does that make me????

[mannc]

12 hours ago, boyst said:

Wasn't Smith there???!??  Am I that forgetful?

Smith was with Baltimore by then…

[Bleedingreennc]

I like Allen, he is a great QB

[Governor]

Everyone talks about turnovers but if Josh caught fire here to finish out, could he still be the MVP? Is it within reach?

22 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The first thing I see is 4 African Americans disparaging JA.  What does that make me????

It’s weird and I believe it goes back a few years when everyone wanted to crown Lamar Jackson as the greatest player and face of the league.

 

Then Josh Allen happened and they’ve been really mad about it ever since.

[Billsfan1972]

25 minutes ago, Governor said:

Everyone talks about turnovers but if Josh caught fire here to finish out, could he still be the MVP? Is it within reach?

It’s weird and I believe it goes back a few years when everyone wanted to crown Lamar Jackson as the greatest player and face of the league.

 

Then Josh Allen happened and they’ve been really mad about it ever since.

Lamar was brought up.  What was funny is how upset Orlovsky was & he didn't get a chance to rebut.

 

McD too probably has cost Allen a # more TDs.

 

Now what too was missing Turnovers by other QB's and that this year the difference is only 3-4.

[HappyDays]

52 minutes ago, Governor said:

Everyone talks about turnovers but if Josh caught fire here to finish out, could he still be the MVP?

 

If we go 5-0 to close out the season yes I believe he will be one of the top contenders, especially if Miami loses to the Ravens and Cowboys which means we would win the division. MVP voters are desperate to give the award to a top seeded QB and the only one that IMO is really making a case right now is Dak Prescott. I don't believe the MVP voters will actually give the award to Brock Purdy.

 

Personally I think they should give it to Tyreek Hill if for no other reason than to show that MVP isn't just the "QB of a #1 seed" award.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The first thing I see is 4 African Americans disparaging JA.  What does that make me????

Elaborate further on this. Please. 
 

here are the current MVP odds. https://nypost.com/2023/12/05/sports/2023-nfl-mvp-odds-pick-dak-prescott-brock-purdy-co-leaders/
 

Are these all African Americans or is it some deeper conspiracy?  

 

57 minutes ago, Governor said:

Everyone talks about turnovers but if Josh caught fire here to finish out, could he still be the MVP? Is it within reach?

It’s weird and I believe it goes back a few years when everyone wanted to crown Lamar Jackson as the greatest player and face of the league.

 

Then Josh Allen happened and they’ve been really mad about it ever since.

That would be a lot of losses for a MVp award. Obviously they aren’t his losses but that’s how it gets viewed. 

30 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Lamar was brought up.  What was funny is how upset Orlovsky was & he didn't get a chance to rebut.

 

McD too probably has cost Allen a # more TDs.

 

Now what too was missing Turnovers by other QB's and that this year the difference is only 3-4.

Baltimore has almost set a record for amount of times leading games. That has probably cost Lamar stats. Same thing with the 49ers. 
 

why are you making this a race thing? If a guy questions a player of a different race, is racial? Does that work the other way? 

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

If we go 5-0 to close out the season yes I believe he will be one of the top contenders, especially if Miami loses to the Ravens and Cowboys which means we would win the division. MVP voters are desperate to give the award to a top seeded QB and the only one that IMO is really making a case right now is Dak Prescott. I don't believe the MVP voters will actually give the award to Brock Purdy.

 

Personally I think they should give it to Tyreek Hill if for no other reason than to show that MVP isn't just the "QB of a #1 seed" award.

I do think is a joke that it only goes to QBs. I’d argue Watt or Garrett could be MVPs because they are carrying garbage offenses to playoff contention. 
 

and it would be a weird look to give the MVp to a guy with hill’s background. 

[Punch]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

The 🤡's being 🤡's (in the first 4 minutes). They bring up TO's that overall did not decide the outcome of the game. JA gets his team a lead in the last 2 minutes against the Pats. The defense pisses it away. Josh Allen gets his team a lead in the last 2 minutes against the Broncos. The defense and ST piss it away. They don't mention that at all. It's just "his turnovers, his turnovers, they treat Lamar different," blah, blah, blah.

 

 

[Jerome007]

On 12/6/2023 at 4:15 PM, Albany,n.y. said:

Go back & read the draft analysis by the Rosen supporters the day after the 1st round of the 2018 draft.  It started with the media members who were astonished that the Bills had the audacity to draft Allen over Rosen.  It was as if Beane questioned their manhood by choosing Allen over their boy, Rosen.  It had nothing to do with Lamar Jackson or your ridiculous assumption that Kirk Cousins gets treated badly because he beat out RGIII in Washington.  

I think there is a lot of so-called "reverse racism" in football, but I too see zero issue  for Josh/Lamar and Cousin/RG3