Is McD really a dictator?

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, RoscoeParrish said:

 

The whole "McDermott is forcing the run" narrative and “is handcuffing the offense” is completely pulled out of thin air.  We have no idea what happened with him and past OC’s.  It's like people know McD is a defensive guy so we all automatically assume he has a 1970s view of the offense as a controlling hard nose dictator.
 

Nothing has ever supported that. 

 

If I am missing actual facts that support this bogus narrative, please share them. 

I'm not so sure I would call him a dictator. He is more of an inadequate flim flam man imo. One who needs to get out of Buffalo and take his b.s. "process" with him.

 

Btw, GREAT screen name! Roscoe was a good example of what was wrong with the Bills. The year he was taken in the second round, he was our first draft selection, having traded away the #1 for the great JP Losman. Roscoe had a few good returns but was a pretty poor receiver. He was listed at 5'9"/175 but he appeard to be even smaller.  

Do you remember the news story when he opened his door one day, saw snow, and ran back in the apartment? Tough times in Buffalo!

 

 

[blitzboy54]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

As insane as it sounds,  if the Bills don't advance to the Super Bowl this year, I think the Bills should either change the Head Coach or trade Allen to a team that can better use him.  He would generate quite a haul.  Except for McCafferty's age, the ideal trade for a retained Coach McDermott would be for Brock Purdy, Christian Mcafferty, one of the niners Linebackers and a couple of the extra second and third round draft picks the niners have stock piled. I think Shanahan would love the chance to coach a QB like Allen. 
 

You had me to this point. Yes that sounds insane, like WTF could possibly bring a fan of an NFL team to say something this insane. It took us 20 years to find a QB and you want to trade him?

 

I don't care if we change coaches every year till the end of time but you DO NOT TRADE A FRANCHISE QB in his prime.... ever.

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, blitzboy54 said:

You had me to this point. Yes that sounds insane, like WTF could possibly bring a fan of an NFL team to say something this insane. It took us 20 years to find a QB and you want to trade him?

 

I don't care if we change coaches every year till the end of time but you DO NOT TRADE A FRANCHISE QB in his prime.... ever.

So do you bring back McDermott in perpetuity? 

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, DapperCam said:

If he’s forcing us to run more, he isn’t doing a very good job. We needed to run a lot more the past 2 weeks.

Problem is if we call a RPO and Allen elects to pass that's on Allen not the OC or HC or whomever as I remember in one game someone mentioned RPO and the team felt those calls always lead to Josh passing. 

11 minutes ago, blitzboy54 said:

You had me to this point. Yes that sounds insane, like WTF could possibly bring a fan of an NFL team to say something this insane. It took us 20 years to find a QB and you want to trade him?

 

I don't care if we change coaches every year till the end of time but you DO NOT TRADE A FRANCHISE QB in his prime.... ever.

Unless it's Deshaun Watson 

[blitzboy54]

15 minutes ago, Chaos said:

So do you bring back McDermott in perpetuity? 

 

No, I want him gone but if my only choice is keep both or none yes I want Allen no matter what. 

[BullBuchanan]

3 hours ago, RoscoeParrish said:

 

The whole "McDermott is forcing the run" narrative and “is handcuffing the offense” is completely pulled out of thin air.  We have no idea what happened with him and past OC’s.  It's like people know McD is a defensive guy so we all automatically assume he has a 1970s view of the offense as a controlling hard nose dictator.
 

Nothing has ever supported that. 

 

If I am missing actual facts that support this bogus narrative, please share them. 

Every head coach (at least every decent one) is a "dictator". It's their job.

[Freak-O]

2 hours ago, Low Positive said:

I think that McDermott does need to go at this point because 6 years of not winning a Super Bowl is long enough to require change. But you're not wrong about people's spicy takes. One human behavior that is amplified by the Internet is a desire to be proven correct. It's just part of conformation bias which is hardwired into our brains. There are posters here would would rather have a 7-year-old hot take be proven right than to see the win football games. I have the Josh Allen draft thread bookmarked so that when I see an over-the-top post about Josh I can go back and look for their over-the-top draft night post. It never fails. And no, for all the "realists" here Josh Allen is not above criticism. But calling for him to be traded with his 99 million-dollar dead cap hit is beyond criticism.

You do realize that there are 32 teams in the league trying to win the Superbowl? Not winning in six years is not a big deal. Every 32 years would be the average. As long as the team is competitive and go to the playoffs sooner or later we will win. This season has not been very good though.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

It isn’t complicated. McD is the head coach of a team in a death spiral, and he appears to be completely without answers. Whether he’s involved or not involved it’s on HIM to have his team ready to play from the opening kickoff…and they definitely aren’t. 

Exactly....I guarantee you there were more people in that locker room other than Diggs who wanted to blow up. 

[BillsVet]

 

17 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Every head coach (at least every decent one) is a "dictator". It's their job.

 

Hello class and thank you for enrolling in Conflation 101.  

 

 

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

We know for sure that McDermott had his fingerprints on the offence in some degree.

 

Dorsey and McDermott admitted so in an article about a month back.

 

How much? That we don’t know.

 

I think we can also read between the lines a little as well.

 

MCD all off season preached about how Josh needs to be smart and not take big hits.

 

”Coincidentally “ , this is by far Joshs lowest rushing totals/attempts of his career.

 

 

WTH did you expect?  Do you expect the HC would not have his fingerprint on the offense "to some degree"?   So he "admitted" it did he?

 

If he had said, I dont do ANYTHING on the offensive side of the ball, people would be screaming to have him fired.

24 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Every head coach (at least every decent one) is a "dictator". It's their job.

Exactly, if not then they are not doing their job.

[Bob Jones]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

As insane as it sounds,  if the Bills don't advance to the Super Bowl this year, I think the Bills should either change the Head Coach or trade Allen to a team that can better use him.  He would generate quite a haul.  Except for McCafferty's age, the ideal trade for a retained Coach McDermott would be for Brock Purdy, Christian Mcafferty, one of the niners Linebackers and a couple of the extra second and third round draft picks the niners have stock piled. I think Shanahan would love the chance to coach a QB like Allen. 

The Buffalo Bills trading away Josh Allen any sooner than say, 10 years from now, would be the dumbest trade in the history of professional sports, I don’t care what they get for him. It would be very Billsy though, I'll give you that. 🤪

[TheFunPolice]

McDermott cleaned up the mess here, but the standard is not "be better than a 17 year playoff drought"

 

He's 4-5 in the playoffs with a generational talent at QB. The team went the farthest early on and has failed to get that far every year since. 

 

AFC Title Game

Divisional round

Wildcard

Possibly fail to make the playoffs

 

That's not good enough. 

 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

You spent some time on that, good post.  

 

At the center of it all is that McD may or may not have been a great hire, doesn't really matter now, it's water under the bridge.  

 

But he was hired before we drafted Allen, and before Allen became good.  

 

Had Allen in his advanced state of play, i.e., not that of his first two seasons, already been here, McD wouldn't have been an optimal hire, to understate the situation.  

 

Doubtful he even would have made the short list of candidates.  

 

Essentially it's a mismatch and that's what we're seeing.  

 

 

 

There is some truth in this in that McDermott was hired to rebuild a franchise and a culture that was in the pits. The talent on the team when he arrived was below average but wasn't awful. However, the toxicity in the building in January 2017 was worse than at any point during the drought. The Rex era had been an unmitigated disaster in all possible ways. 

 

McDermott was very successful in his rebuild. He has done a very good job as Head Coach. From turning around the culture, to establishing cohesion between coaching and the front office, to winning games, breaking the drought and having a couple of good playoff runs. 

 

But if the Bills move on after this season the specification for the next coach will not be a culture builder who has the leadership and force of personality to turn around a failing franchise. That work is done. The Bills would either need a proven winner or someone who can maximise their offensive firepower (in a world where they can also get something resembling the real Josh Allen back, and if they can't do that then the whole thing is moot anyway). You wouldn't hire a Sean McDermott type now if there was a vacancy. 

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is some truth in this in that McDermott was hired to rebuild a franchise and a culture that was in the pits. The talent on the team when he arrived was below average but wasn't awful. However, the toxicity in the building in January 2017 was worse than at any point during the drought. The Rex era had been an unmitigated disaster in all possible ways. 

 

McDermott was very successful in his rebuild. He has done a very good job as Head Coach. From turning around the culture, to establishing cohesion between coaching and the front office, to winning games, breaking the drought and having a couple of good playoff runs. 

 

But if the Bills move on after this season the specification for the next coach will not be a culture builder who has the leadership and force of personality to turn around a failing franchise. That work is done. The Bills would either need a proven winner or someone who can maximise their offensive firepower (in a world where they can also get something resembling the real Josh Allen back, and if they can't do that then the whole thing is moot anyway). You wouldn't hire a Sean McDermott type now if there was a vacancy. 

 

The only proven winner who will probably be available is Bill. He is a proven winner with an elite level QB. If Pegula did hire Bill, then his OC pick to work with Josh would be the important hire since Bill comes from the defensive side of the ball. Otherwise as mentioned by others on this board Lions OC Ben Johnson or Eagles OC Brian Johnson would probably be the type of coach the Bills would look to hire. 

[klumzyfule66]

4 hours ago, Low Positive said:

I think that McDermott does need to go at this point because 6 years of not winning a Super Bowl is long enough to require change. But you're not wrong about people's spicy takes. One human behavior that is amplified by the Internet is a desire to be proven correct. It's just part of conformation bias which is hardwired into our brains. There are posters here would would rather have a 7-year-old hot take be proven right than to see the win football games. I have the Josh Allen draft thread bookmarked so that when I see an over-the-top post about Josh I can go back and look for their over-the-top draft night post. It never fails. And no, for all the "realists" here Josh Allen is not above criticism. But calling for him to be traded with his 99 million-dollar dead cap hit is beyond criticism.

While it makes sense, and I agree with the feeling that it's been long enough, I just went back to look, because I keep thinking "Is it really though?"

 

For those whose opinion of what follows is dependent upon my thoughts on McD:  I've said (probably not here, but amongst my friend groups) after 13 seconds, that we reached peak success under McD.  That he needed to be fired if we wanted a Super Bowl.  Or that heads needed to roll (which of course did not happen).  It was not a popular opinion.  At that point (and now), no longer do I care about just making the playoffs.  Now it's a Super Bowl.  My thought was confirmed the very next year when we went to Arrowhead week 6 the following year.  We got a TD to put us up by 3, and this time left 16 seconds (in the half).  They drive down to get a FG.  Again.  They ended up winning the game, so maybe that issue was a footnote in the history of many people.  The only thing consistent with this team in the past few years, has been the defense's inability to get a stop at the end of the game, when it's needed.

 

Anyway, preamble aside.  I went back to see how long it takes first time head coaches to get their first SB win with their first team.

 

Only one time since John Madden in 1976, has anybody won their first SB with their first team after their 5th year.  Bill Cowher in 2005.  Taking a look at the years before their championship:

John Madden won in his 8th season - he made 5 AFCCG in the 7 years prior.

Bill Cowher 14th season - his first 6 years included 1 SB appearance, along with 2 other AFCCG.

 

Edit to note: Madden was hired at age 32.  Cowher was hired at age 34.  I think that's an interesting and potentially important distinction because (in my opinion), the younger you are, generally the more likely you are to change and adjust and grow and learn.

 

Usually its been years 2-4, but there have been 3 who've won their first in year 5:  Mike Holmgren in 1996, Mike McCarthy in 2011, and John Harbaugh in 2012.

 

That said, he's a good coach.  As mentioned in comments prior, I agree that there's now a mismatch with JA.  He wants the team he wants, vs fielding the team that fits the players best.  He'd be better off fielding a team without a QB like Josh, and instead having the Jamal Adams and Trent Dilfers of the world.

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by klumzyfule66

[DuckyBoys]

is he maximizing what he has to work with?  If you feel the answer is yes than the onus is on Beane to get more talent in  I think we have enough talent but he needs to be shown the door

[BillsFan130]

56 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

WTH did you expect?  Do you expect the HC would not have his fingerprint on the offense "to some degree"?   So he "admitted" it did he?

 

If he had said, I dont do ANYTHING on the offensive side of the ball, people would be screaming to have him fired.

Exactly, if not then they are not doing their job.

Um, yes?

 

Sometimes the best thing a leader can do is get out of the way and let the people you are "supposed" to trust to run the show.

 

If he doesn't trust Dorsey, then he made the wrong hire and that is still on mcdermott.

 

Do you think Andy reid tells spags how he wants the defence to be played?

 

I would almost guarantee that answer is a no

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

The only proven winner who will probably be available is Bill. He is a proven winner with an elite level QB. If Pegula did hire Bill, then his OC pick to work with Josh would be the important hire since Bill comes from the defensive side of the ball. Otherwise as mentioned by others on this board Lions OC Ben Johnson or Eagles OC Brian Johnson would probably be the type of coach the Bills would look to hire. 

 

Ben Johnson is the stand out candidate. Brian Johnson interests me much less. I haven't loved the Eagles O this year.

[GoBills808]

35 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is some truth in this in that McDermott was hired to rebuild a franchise and a culture that was in the pits. The talent on the team when he arrived was below average but wasn't awful. However, the toxicity in the building in January 2017 was worse than at any point during the drought. The Rex era had been an unmitigated disaster in all possible ways. 

 

McDermott was very successful in his rebuild. He has done a very good job as Head Coach. From turning around the culture, to establishing cohesion between coaching and the front office, to winning games, breaking the drought and having a couple of good playoff runs. 

 

But if the Bills move on after this season the specification for the next coach will not be a culture builder who has the leadership and force of personality to turn around a failing franchise. That work is done. The Bills would either need a proven winner or someone who can maximise their offensive firepower (in a world where they can also get something resembling the real Josh Allen back, and if they can't do that then the whole thing is moot anyway). You wouldn't hire a Sean McDermott type now if there was a vacancy. 

He didn't have a couple good playoff runs. He had one.

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, RoscoeParrish said:

 

The whole "McDermott is forcing the run" narrative and “is handcuffing the offense” is completely pulled out of thin air.  We have no idea what happened with him and past OC’s.  It's like people know McD is a defensive guy so we all automatically assume he has a 1970s view of the offense as a controlling hard nose dictator.
 

Nothing has ever supported that. 

 

If I am missing actual facts that support this bogus narrative, please share them. 

we don’t know the scope but he’s publicly said he likes a balanced offense and didn’t seem particularly thrilled with dabolls final season based on comments the following camp

 

we also know he’s had input into the offense based on recent interviews.

 

how hard he interjects is a wild card that we can only speculate but we know he participates and we know his preference 

[RoyBatty is alive]

13 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Um, yes?

 

Sometimes the best thing a leader can do is get out of the way and let the people you are "supposed" to trust to run the show.

 

If he doesn't trust Dorsey, then he made the wrong hire and that is still on mcdermott.

 

Do you think Andy reid tells spags how he wants the defence to be played?

 

I would almost guarantee that answer is a no

Well we disagree.  Again quoting you, "fingerprint on the offense to some degree".   Totally unrealistic.   So if Dorsey wants to go for it on 4th and long in Q1, according to your logic, McD is not supposed to stop it.

[cgg716]

4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

I don’t know. Some people for sure.

 

For me going into the year I was slightly more positive than negative on MCD. I think a lot of people were as well.

But we wanted the next step.

And the team regressed in every aspect.

 

whether that’s 100 percent on MCD or not, he’s the leader in charge so at the end of the day it’s his responsibility to right the ship. 10 games in, we look closer to the 2018 bills than the 2020-2021 bills

 

I have seen enough personally.

 

He still can’t manage a game, team is still undisciplined, and they still don’t look ready for a lot of games.

 

 

 

 

This. And the thing I don't think gets talked about enough, is his defense, it's never actually been good. As a defensive hc, he's somehow gotten away with it never being good. Maybe if it was, his style of offense wouldn't be so obsolete 

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, RoscoeParrish said:

 

The whole "McDermott is forcing the run" narrative and “is handcuffing the offense” is completely pulled out of thin air.  We have no idea what happened with him and past OC’s.  It's like people know McD is a defensive guy so we all automatically assume he has a 1970s view of the offense as a controlling hard nose dictator.
 

Nothing has ever supported that. 

 

If I am missing actual facts that support this bogus narrative, please share them. 

These days this board is like 95% made up false narrative and hysteria…3.5% assumption or speculation…1.5% factual substance.

[FilthyBeast]

If you look at the anecdotal evidence from former player statements, musical chairs with coordinators, not taking accountability, etc then the obvious answer is yes. To be honest he's trying to be Bill Belichik but without the 9 SB appearances and 6 rings to back it up.

 

This is why it was a major mistake by the Pegulas from the get go giving this clown so much power and hand picking his own GM. Also on that note, I feel I must remind Bills fans yet again...never forget that it was McDummy's decision to make the trade with the Chiefs and his former boss (who fired him) to land Patrick Mahomes when he was there for the Bills in 2017. Another reason I'm more than eager to show him the door after the season if I'm Terry Pegula.

[BillsFan130]

32 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Well we disagree.  Again quoting you, "fingerprint on the offense to some degree".   Totally unrealistic.   So if Dorsey wants to go for it on 4th and long in Q1, according to your logic, McD is not supposed to stop it.

No that’s not what I’m saying at all. That’s a game management decision which is different.

 

I am talking about running the ball, more ball control, more conservative, Josh running less etc 

If you read between the lines, MCD has basically wanted all of those things over the years.

 

Couple that with him saying he has some control on the offence, I think it’s pretty easy to put 2 and 2 together.

 

(again how much control, we don’t know)

[pocoboy]

5 hours ago, Chaos said:

McDermott is either 1) involved in changing the offense to a less effective offense or 2) he is not involved.  This is a tautology.  it is one or the other.  
 

If he is involved, changing to Joe Brady or anyone else may not resolve the problem. 
 

If he is not involved, it is failure on his his part to not be aware of situation prior to the season starting.  He is not in his rookie season 

 

Either way the fragile hopes of the season now rest entirely either on Joe Brady or the Sean McDermott/ Joe Brady brain trust.   It seems it would be very simple for McDermott to tell us which it is.  Based on past track record, if the offense succeeds , at the end of the season he will take credit. If the offense fails from here on out, he will blame Brady. 

 

My going theory is that the Green Bay 2nd Half fully soured McDermott on Dorsey. That is a clear line of demarcation in the way the Bills played. The next game vs the Jets was a garbage show that ended up leading to Allen's elbow injury. Nearly every game since that point has looked exactly the same. And that "souring" may have been inevitable given how Allen all but foisted that idea on McDermott, usurping the true choice from him.

 

The hope would be Brady gets a fresh stab at playbook implementation. It won't be easy on a short week, against a tough NYJ Defense. But you do have going for you that NYJ comes in blind; it's possible the same tendencies manifest with Brady's direction, but they can't be sure of that until a series or three.

 

[cgg716]

2 hours ago, pocoboy said:

 

My going theory is that the Green Bay 2nd Half fully soured McDermott on Dorsey. That is a clear line of demarcation in the way the Bills played. The next game vs the Jets was a garbage show that ended up leading to Allen's elbow injury. Nearly every game since that point has looked exactly the same. And that "souring" may have been inevitable given how Allen all but foisted that idea on McDermott, usurping the true choice from him.

 

The hope would be Brady gets a fresh stab at playbook implementation. It won't be easy on a short week, against a tough NYJ Defense. But you do have going for you that NYJ comes in blind; it's possible the same tendencies manifest with Brady's direction, but they can't be sure of that until a series or three.

 

This is pretty accurate I feel like. Ironically the defense was horrendous that half too, as it usually is. But Mcd doubled down instead of souring 

[Chaos]

9 hours ago, RoscoeParrish said:

 

The whole "McDermott is forcing the run" narrative and “is handcuffing the offense” is completely pulled out of thin air.  We have no idea what happened with him and past OC’s.  It's like people know McD is a defensive guy so we all automatically assume he has a 1970s view of the offense as a controlling hard nose dictator.
 

Nothing has ever supported that. 

 

If I am missing actual facts that support this bogus narrative, please share them. 

to be fair I am pretty certain he is not a tator. 

[Bill from NYC]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

These days this board is like 95% made up false narrative and hysteria…3.5% assumption or speculation…1.5% factual substance.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^You mean there are lots of inaccurate, exagerated posts?  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

I couldn't resist.  

[Don Otreply]

Ya see,  you have to combine Dick Nixon and a potato to get a dicktater…, 

[JerseyBills]

He is

We're the North Korea of the NFL 🙄

[RiotAct]

9 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Some people have had a bone to pick with McDermott dating back to 2017 when they didn’t like the choice. 

You know who they are because every time anything bad happened these last 6 years they pointed it at McD and gave all positive credit to someone else like Daboll. 
 

Now that things went south the pitchforks are out and they point at him at default with ridiculous things like “low IQ” and “dictator”. 
 

Just like many people have a weird hate towards Allen since the draft, some people have a weird hate towards McD. But now it’s just the cool thing to do, but it doesn’t really make sense. 

lulz.

[Mikie2times]

I never looked at McD as a dictator. More a control freak. While these types are typically very organized and efficient, they also tend to limit creativity of others and limit freedom of decisions. Which really anybody worth a salt wants as far as how they choose opportunities. Further, when threatened the usual response is to clamp down even further. Most of you have worked for a person like this. They typically run a very tight ship but don’t exactly promote growth in others and certainly don’t inspire others over the long term. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Mikie2times

[AuntieEm]

6 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

The only proven winner who will probably be available is Bill. He is a proven winner with an elite level QB. If Pegula did hire Bill, then his OC pick to work with Josh would be the important hire since Bill comes from the defensive side of the ball. Otherwise as mentioned by others on this board Lions OC Ben Johnson or Eagles OC Brian Johnson would probably be the type of coach the Bills would look to hire. 

 

 

Johnson and Johnson, 2 top candidates to fix what ails this current team.  Aren't Bandaids a Johnson and Johnson product?  Seems to be a sign.....

[ToGoGo]

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

These days this board is like 95% made up false narrative and hysteria…3.5% assumption or speculation…1.5% factual substance.

 

Total pitchforks emotional hysteria. 

 

On Wall Street the sharps are BUYING right now, while all the schlubs are selling. 

[PBF81]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

There is some truth in this in that McDermott was hired to rebuild a franchise and a culture that was in the pits. The talent on the team when he arrived was below average but wasn't awful. However, the toxicity in the building in January 2017 was worse than at any point during the drought. The Rex era had been an unmitigated disaster in all possible ways. 

 

I know that you're a McD apologist, or at least lean heavily in his favor if you disagree with that, so take these comments in that context.  

 

The Ryan era was an unmitigated disaster, but there was some warning when Ryan said that his next coaching job would be his last.  That's not a trait of someone that cares whether or not he does a good job.  Not saying he didn't care, just saying that it wasn't a good sign.  

 

Having said, that, Ryan didn't have great talent either.  We can do a position-by-position analysis if you want.  Might be fun in these dry times.  

 

 

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

McDermott was very successful in his rebuild. He has done a very good job as Head Coach. From turning around the culture, to establishing cohesion between coaching and the front office, to winning games, breaking the drought and having a couple of good playoff runs. 

 

Here's the thing about "culture," it's somewhat of a nebulous thing.  The term gets thrown around, but how is it specifically defined.  But that appears to be his greatest achievement here as it's always the very first thing out the the mouths of McD apologists. 

 

Allow me to ask however, what's the "culture" right now, today, at this moment?  

 

I don't think that it can be defined as a "winning culture" as his apologists like to assign it.  

 

As to "winning games, breaking the drought and having a couple of good playoff runs," he was barely above .500 in his first three seasons.  25-23 

 

That Peterman thing hangs over him and have been rehashed now in the questioning of his leadership abilities.  As minor as it may be, it's become a black stain.  

 

We made the playoffs twice, but in 2017, two other teams had an identical 9-7 record that did not make it, and were both better teams.  We beat only two winning teams that season, both 10-6.  Otherwise we beat 7 bottom-dwelling teams.  We were embarrassed in the playoffs by a former Bills coach featuring a below-average QB.  We also needed help (aka luck) from something that we had absolutely no control over.  

 

In 2019 we made the playoffs, but lost a Wild-Card game, again, with McD once again being outcoached.  

 

So any "playoff run" boils down to 2020 - 2022 where we've only been able to win a Divisional game once, in that ill-fated '21 season where McD did anything but play up to "winning culture" in that 13-Seconds game. 

 

Keep in mind that we got lots of help in doing what you suggest, by Brady leaving New England, essentially leaving us to supplant New England as the only decent team in the division.  To wit, McD was 0-6 vs. NE with Brady until Allen's breakout season, and when Brady was no longer with the Pats.  So the skids were already greased for him there.  Our lackluster playoff outcomes are more indicative.  

 

So I'm not sure how you define playoff runs, but we've won only one divisional playoff game in his 6 seasons with his 7th likely not even making the playoffs.  

 

Again, where's that leave that "winning culture" thing?  

 

 

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

But if the Bills move on after this season the specification for the next coach will not be a culture builder who has the leadership and force of personality to turn around a failing franchise. That work is done. The Bills would either need a proven winner or someone who can maximise their offensive firepower (in a world where they can also get something resembling the real Josh Allen back, and if they can't do that then the whole thing is moot anyway). You wouldn't hire a Sean McDermott type now if there was a vacancy. 

 

I'd suggest that the culture isn't positive right now.  Do you think it is?   

 

If Pegula even pulls the trigger, and I have my doubts that he will, where would that leave us from a "culture perspective?"   I'm not suggesting anything, seriously asking, but the word tentative comes to mind.  We likely won't know until things happen.  Pegula risks looking like the biggest incompetent in the mix if he does ditch McD given that he just signed him to four more seasons that haven't even begun yet, rather than waiting, which would have been very wise, to see whether what has happened might happen.  

 

If you recall however, following the 2019 season there were plenty of questionmarks and criticism of McD and his "Process," which to date still hasn't even remotely been defined.   It's nothing more than a meaningless buzzword.  

 

It wasn't until 2020, when Allen broke out, not McD, Allen, that our "winning culture" became prominent, and again, that also coincided with the Brady-less Pats.  The three other QBs in our division that season were the rookie Tagovailoa, Darnold, and Newton.  ... for about half of our wins.  

 

Now, look where we are.  Can it be overemphasized where our culture is at the moment?  There's a major pall over Bills fandom and the coverage of the team, and clearly somethings' going on in the lockerroom as well, not positively.  

 

The point, the point is that if he, not Allen, actually created it, he's also equally responsible for destroying it now, which raises that chicken/egg aka McD/Allen question.  

 

Anyway, food for thought.  

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by PBF81

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I know that you're a McD apologist, or at least lean heavily in his favor if you disagree with that, so take these comments in that context.  

 

The Ryan era was an unmitigated disaster, but there was some warning when Ryan said that his next coaching job would be his last.  That's not a trait of someone that cares whether or not he does a good job.  Not saying he didn't care, just saying that it wasn't a good sign.  

 

Having said, that, Ryan didn't have great talent either.  We can do a position-by-position analysis if you want.  Might be fun in these dry times.  

 

 

 

Here's the thing about "culture," it's somewhat of a nebulous thing.  The term gets thrown around, but how is it specifically defined.  But that appears to be his greatest achievement here as it's always the very first thing out the the mouths of McD apologists. 

 

Allow me to ask however, what's the "culture" right now, today, at this moment?  

 

I don't think that it can be defined as a "winning culture" as his apologists like to assign it.  

 

As to "winning games, breaking the drought and having a couple of good playoff runs," he was barely above .500 in his first three seasons.  25-23 

 

That Peterman thing hangs over him and have been rehashed now in the questioning of his leadership abilities.  As minor as it may be, it's become a black stain.  

 

We made the playoffs twice, but in 2017, two other teams had an identical 9-7 record that did not make it, and were both better teams.  We beat only two winning teams that season, both 10-6.  Otherwise we beat 7 bottom-dwelling teams.  We were embarrassed in the playoffs by a former Bills coach featuring a below-average QB.  We also needed help (aka luck) from something that we had absolutely no control over.  

 

In 2019 we made the playoffs, but lost a Wild-Card game, again, with McD once again being outcoached.  

 

So any "playoff run" boils down to 2020 - 2022 where we've only been able to win a Divisional game once, in that ill-fated '21 season where McD did anything but play up to "winning culture" in that 13-Seconds game. 

 

Keep in mind that we got lots of help in doing what you suggest, by Brady leaving New England, essentially leaving us to supplant New England as the only decent team in the division.  To wit, McD was 0-6 vs. NE with Brady until Allen's breakout season, and when Brady was no longer with the Pats.  So the skids were already greased for him there.  Our lackluster playoff outcomes are more indicative.  

 

So I'm not sure how you define playoff runs, but we've won only one divisional playoff game in his 6 seasons with his 7th likely not even making the playoffs.  

 

Again, where's that leave that "winning culture" thing?  

 

 

 

I'd suggest that the culture isn't positive right now.  Do you think it is?   

 

If Pegula even pulls the trigger, and I have my doubts that he will, where would that leave us from a "culture perspective?"   I'm not suggesting anything, seriously asking, but the word tentative comes to mind.  We likely won't know until things happen.  Pegula risks looking like the biggest incompetent in the mix if he does ditch McD given that he just signed him to four more seasons that haven't even begun yet, rather than waiting, which would have been very wise, to see whether what has happened might happen.  

 

If you recall however, following the 2019 season there were plenty of questionmarks and criticism of McD and his "Process," which to date still hasn't even remotely been defined.   It's nothing more than a meaningless buzzword.  

 

It wasn't until 2020, when Allen broke out, not McD, Allen, that our "winning culture" became prominent, and again, that also coincided with the Brady-less Pats.  The three other QBs in our division that season were the rookie Tagovailoa, Darnold, and Newton.  ... for about half of our wins.  

 

Now, look where we are.  Can it be overemphasized where our culture is at the moment?  There's a major pall over Bills fandom and the coverage of the team, and clearly somethings' going on in the lockerroom as well, not positively.  

 

The point, the point is that if he, not Allen, actually created it, he's also equally responsible for destroying it now, which raises that chicken/egg aka McD/Allen question.  

 

Anyway, food for thought.  

 

 

 

We get it you hate McDermott and everything he has ever done.

[PBF81]

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We get it you hate McDermott and everything he has ever done.

 

LOL  

 

Or, maybe you need to come up with better arguments.  

 

 

 

How much mileage you gonna get try and get out of "winning culture"?  

 

Either way, you appear to be fighting an uphill battle now.  

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by PBF81

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

I never looked at McD as a dictator. More a control freak. While these types are typically very organized and efficient, they also tend to limit creativity of others and limit freedom of decisions. Which really anybody worth a salt wants as far as how they choose opportunities. Further, when threatened the usual response is to clamp down even further. Most of you have worked for a person like this. They typically run a very tight ship but don’t exactly promote growth in others and certainly don’t inspire others over the long term. 

I agree w this

 

I also think there's no shame in admitting that taking an organization from mediocrity to respectability and taking a respectable organization to the top of its field are two different skillsets 

[PBF81]

How much mileage you gonna get try and get out of "winning culture"?  

 

Either way, you appear to be fighting an uphill battle now.  

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by PBF81