Is McD really a dictator?

[RoscoeParrish]

 

The whole "McDermott is forcing the run" narrative and “is handcuffing the offense” is completely pulled out of thin air.  We have no idea what happened with him and past OC’s.  It's like people know McD is a defensive guy so we all automatically assume he has a 1970s view of the offense as a controlling hard nose dictator.
 

Nothing has ever supported that. 

 

If I am missing actual facts that support this bogus narrative, please share them. 

[BillsFan130]

We know for sure that McDermott had his fingerprints on the offence in some degree.

 

Dorsey and McDermott admitted so in an article about a month back.

 

How much? That we don’t know.

 

I think we can also read between the lines a little as well.

 

MCD all off season preached about how Josh needs to be smart and not take big hits.

 

”Coincidentally “ , this is by far Joshs lowest rushing totals/attempts of his career.

 

 

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

 

The whole "McDermott is forcing the run" narrative and “is handcuffing the offense” is completely pulled out of thin air.  We have no idea what happened with him and past OC’s.  It's like people know McD is a defensive guy so we all automatically assume he has a 1970s view of the offense as a controlling hard nose dictator.
 

Nothing has ever supported that. 

 

If I am missing actual facts that support this bogus narrative, please share them. 

McD is a dictator. He demanded the offense suck. That’s why he hired Dorsey. To suck intentionally. Everything is perfect according to McD, which is why he’s firing people. Like Dorsey. Who did everything perfect according to McD.

 

That’s the internal logic of the “this is all McD’s fault” argument. 

[ToGoGo]

Some people have had a bone to pick with McDermott dating back to 2017 when they didn’t like the choice. 

You know who they are because every time anything bad happened these last 6 years they pointed it at McD and gave all positive credit to someone else like Daboll. 
 

Now that things went south the pitchforks are out and they point at him at default with ridiculous things like “low IQ” and “dictator”. 
 

Just like many people have a weird hate towards Allen since the draft, some people have a weird hate towards McD. But now it’s just the cool thing to do, but it doesn’t really make sense. 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Some people have had a bone to pick with McDermott dating back to 2017 when they didn’t like the choice. 

You know who they are because every time anything bad happened these last 6 years they pointed it at McD and gave all positive credit to someone else like Daboll. 
 

Now that things went south the pitchforks are out and they point at him at default with ridiculous things like “low IQ” and “dictator”. 
 

Just like many people have a weird hate towards Allen since the draft, some people have a weird hate towards McD. But now it’s just the cool thing to do, but it doesn’t really make sense. 

There’s at least one guy who loved Rex Ryan so much, he swore revenge on the Pegulas and McD forever. He disappeared for about 5 years, but now he’s back for blood.

[Chaos]

McDermott is either 1) involved in changing the offense to a less effective offense or 2) he is not involved.  This is a tautology.  it is one or the other.  
 

If he is involved, changing to Joe Brady or anyone else may not resolve the problem. 
 

If he is not involved, it is failure on his his part to not be aware of situation prior to the season starting.  He is not in his rookie season 

 

Either way the fragile hopes of the season now rest entirely either on Joe Brady or the Sean McDermott/ Joe Brady brain trust.   It seems it would be very simple for McDermott to tell us which it is.  Based on past track record, if the offense succeeds , at the end of the season he will take credit. If the offense fails from here on out, he will blame Brady. 

[BillsFan130]

12 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Some people have had a bone to pick with McDermott dating back to 2017 when they didn’t like the choice. 

You know who they are because every time anything bad happened these last 6 years they pointed it at McD and gave all positive credit to someone else like Daboll. 
 

Now that things went south the pitchforks are out and they point at him at default with ridiculous things like “low IQ” and “dictator”. 
 

Just like many people have a weird hate towards Allen since the draft, some people have a weird hate towards McD. But now it’s just the cool thing to do, but it doesn’t really make sense. 

I don’t know. Some people for sure.

 

For me going into the year I was slightly more positive than negative on MCD. I think a lot of people were as well.

But we wanted the next step.

And the team regressed in every aspect.

 

whether that’s 100 percent on MCD or not, he’s the leader in charge so at the end of the day it’s his responsibility to right the ship. 10 games in, we look closer to the 2018 bills than the 2020-2021 bills

 

I have seen enough personally.

 

He still can’t manage a game, team is still undisciplined, and they still don’t look ready for a lot of games.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by BillsFan130

[SoCal Deek]

It isn’t complicated. McD is the head coach of a team in a death spiral, and he appears to be completely without answers. Whether he’s involved or not involved it’s on HIM to have his team ready to play from the opening kickoff…and they definitely aren’t. 

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

It isn’t complicated. McD is the head coach of a team in a death spiral, and he appears to be completely without answers. Whether he’s involved or not involved it’s on HIM to have his team ready to play from the opening kickoff…and they definitely aren’t. 

This. Thank you 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

15 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Some people have had a bone to pick with McDermott dating back to 2017 when they didn’t like the choice. 

You know who they are because every time anything bad happened these last 6 years they pointed it at McD and gave all positive credit to someone else like Daboll. 
 

Now that things went south the pitchforks are out and they point at him at default with ridiculous things like “low IQ” and “dictator”. 
 

Just like many people have a weird hate towards Allen since the draft, some people have a weird hate towards McD. But now it’s just the cool thing to do, but it doesn’t really make sense. 

 

Really? You sure about that?

 

Naaaaah, you are way off base. After the AFC Championship Game Leslie Frazier's defense got a ton of heat and it eventually led to his dismissal after the Bengals debacle where we couldn't get to Burrow despite three of their offensive linemen being out. The biggest and most damaging failures of this regime are wrapped around those two games. Also, if you look at the production of the offense under Daboll as compared with Dorsey, WHY WOULDN'T we give Daboll positive credit? He's the OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR and McD the defensive guy is the HEAD COACH.

 

Your revisionist history is way off base.

[Low Positive]

17 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Some people have had a bone to pick with McDermott dating back to 2017 when they didn’t like the choice. 

You know who they are because every time anything bad happened these last 6 years they pointed it at McD and gave all positive credit to someone else like Daboll. 
 

Now that things went south the pitchforks are out and they point at him at default with ridiculous things like “low IQ” and “dictator”. 
 

Just like many people have a weird hate towards Allen since the draft, some people have a weird hate towards McD. But now it’s just the cool thing to do, but it doesn’t really make sense. 

I think that McDermott does need to go at this point because 6 years of not winning a Super Bowl is long enough to require change. But you're not wrong about people's spicy takes. One human behavior that is amplified by the Internet is a desire to be proven correct. It's just part of conformation bias which is hardwired into our brains. There are posters here would would rather have a 7-year-old hot take be proven right than to see the win football games. I have the Josh Allen draft thread bookmarked so that when I see an over-the-top post about Josh I can go back and look for their over-the-top draft night post. It never fails. And no, for all the "realists" here Josh Allen is not above criticism. But calling for him to be traded with his 99 million-dollar dead cap hit is beyond criticism.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

It’s McDermott’s team. He’s involved in everything.

[Riverboat Ritchie]

Regardless if he is a dictator or not the writing seems to be on the wall for McD’s tenure. Either the death spiral continues and he’s let go at end of the year or the ship corrects course. Issues will be if we go like 4-3 down the stretch  and either barely miss playoffs or are one and done.  During McD tenure I don’t think I have ever said that we out schemed the other side and the coaching blunders, beyond just regular crap like bad challenges and stuff, always seem to bite us. 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, FireChans said:

McD is a dictator. He demanded the offense suck. That’s why he hired Dorsey. To suck intentionally. Everything is perfect according to McD, which is why he’s firing people. Like Dorsey. Who did everything perfect according to McD.

 

That’s the internal logic of the “this is all McD’s fault” argument. 

Right. We need to know who number 2 works for 😂 movie reference 😂

[DapperCam]

If he’s forcing us to run more, he isn’t doing a very good job. We needed to run a lot more the past 2 weeks.

[Gregg]

39 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Some people have had a bone to pick with McDermott dating back to 2017 when they didn’t like the choice. 

You know who they are because every time anything bad happened these last 6 years they pointed it at McD and gave all positive credit to someone else like Daboll. 
 

Now that things went south the pitchforks are out and they point at him at default with ridiculous things like “low IQ” and “dictator”. 
 

Just like many people have a weird hate towards Allen since the draft, some people have a weird hate towards McD. But now it’s just the cool thing to do, but it doesn’t really make sense. 

 

Maybe some but overall, I think fanbase appreciates what McDermott did for the Bills. He changed the culture from a losing one to a winning one. He won the division 3 straight years and made the playoffs more often than not. But he has not been able to get the team over the hump. It's not about the culture anymore. It's about championships. He has been here 7 years and still no Super Bowl appearances much less a Super Bowl win. Team has also been in decline since 13 seconds. It also sounds like his message is getting stale/old with the players. I just think fans are ready to move on and go with a more offensive coach who can get the most out of Josh Allen which us gives the best chance to win it all.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Gregg

[Chaos]

19 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Some people have had a bone to pick with McDermott dating back to 2017 when they didn’t like the choice. 

You know who they are because every time anything bad happened these last 6 years they pointed it at McD and gave all positive credit to someone else like Daboll. 
 

Now that things went south the pitchforks are out and they point at him at default with ridiculous things like “low IQ” and “dictator”. 
 

Just like many people have a weird hate towards Allen since the draft, some people have a weird hate towards McD. But now it’s just the cool thing to do, but it doesn’t really make sense. 

When he was first hired, I had no opinion one way or another because I did not know much about him. After the playoff drought the bar for success for a  Bills head coach was probably lower than the bar for success for any NFL head coach.  My recollection of the drought is not that we were constantly among at the bottom of the NFL, but constantly about 10th from the bottom and drafting 10, or thereabouts.  It was a low mediocre team.  The first season of making the playoffs at 9-8 was refreshing, but the early bow out, meant we had move to high mediocre team.  

The next season, Josh Allen blew me away in the preseason games.  It was impossible for to imagine not starting him right away.  But I accepted the "let him learn logic".  But at the point another rookie Nate Peterman was brought in to start before Allen, I had my first twinge of "does this guy know what he is doing" doubts.  But he corrected that error and the team made great progress from that point.  (Side note, I did not like the "keep everything in front of you soft defense for a long time, but came to accept that it worked well and stopped being concerned about that generally)

I found his clapping after bad plays as a bit bizzare but was more amused by what I considered a weird personality quirk, than thinking it was a question of competence.  From the moment Allen was made the starter until the Houston playoff game everything was great with McDermott.  Others may disagree, as is there preogitive, but I felt the loss to Houston was primarily coaching errors.  It was the first evidence that McDermott is not a great closer in key games.  We moved forward with some great preseason play and playoff play, until the 13 second game.   This game is so haunting, it is discussed quite a bit still on national media, let alone in local discussion circles.  There were two upsetting parts to this to me.  One, it seemed to be a complete coaching error.  And yet, after the game McDermott did not accept responsibility and blamed others for execution problems. (as an aside, its odd to me for coaches to thinking they are doing a good job coaching, if players do not know the play or assignments).  At this point "inability to close" became a meaningfull concern of mine.  At that point, I felt as though the onus was on McDermott to prove he could.  So far he has not.  Most NFL coaches don't get to year 6 without advancing to the super bowl at least once.  It is rare enough that some of the names of those that did are etched in NFL lore, Marvin Lewis, Marty Shottenmeimer, and a couple of others.  The only precedent I know for any NFL coach to get to year 6 with a top tier QB on the roster and no super bowl appearances is Dan Reeves with John Elway. Dan Marino made it to the Super Bowl with Shula, his second season. 

 

On a separate path, until the 2023 draft, I did not agree the roster was being properly constructed to win in today's NFL.   I don't know how much McDermott had to do with that.  But it seems from public appearance, he did not have a lot of say in the extensive focus on building the defense. 

The reason to keep McDermott for season 6, is the excellent regular season results he has generated. Those are not in dispute.  I began the season hopeful that McDermott could prove he was a closer in this years playoffs.  He still has the chance.  If we go on a tear and make the playoffs and advance until at least the AFC championship game, its an easy decision to bring him back next year.  

If the team actually fails to make the playoffs, It is not clear to me what the case for bring him back for year 7 would be.  The narrative would have to be "even great coaches have down years, plus "injuries", he deserves a shot at a bounce back year.   

If the team makes the playoffs but goes out in the divisional round again, I don't think there is a compelling case either to retain him or to fire him.  Kind of coaching purgatory. 
 
 

[billieve420]

I do believe McDermott does give his opinion on how he wants offense to run and has played a part. However, I also do believe if he was truly running the offense they would be running the ball more. We have had more success running the ball under center and yet don't do it enough. We continue to be predictable where other team's know what is coming. I doubt that is McDermott's doing.

[Pirate Angel]

Have you ever had a boss who was over his head so he hires even more incompetent people and micromanages then so he has fall guys surrounding him. If we have a great offense, which we are capable of being very good, that coordinator is now a threat to McDermott as very few defensive minded coaches are rarely head coaches in the NFL

[PBF81]

8 minutes ago, Chaos said:

When he was first hired, I had no opinion one way or another because I did not know much about him. After the playoff drought the bar for success for a  Bills head coach was probably lower than the bar for success for any NFL head coach.  My recollection of the drought is not that we were constantly among at the bottom of the NFL, but constantly about 10th from the bottom and drafting 10, or thereabouts.  It was a low mediocre team.  The first season of making the playoffs at 9-8 was refreshing, but the early bow out, meant we had move to high mediocre team.  

The next season, Josh Allen blew me away in the preseason games.  It was impossible for to imagine not starting him right away.  But I accepted the "let him learn logic".  But at the point another rookie Nate Peterman was brought in to start before Allen, I had my first twinge of "does this guy know what he is doing" doubts.  But he corrected that error and the team made great progress from that point.  (Side note, I did not like the "keep everything in front of you soft defense for a long time, but came to accept that it worked well and stopped being concerned about that generally)

I found his clapping after bad plays as a bit bizzare but was more amused by what I considered a weird personality quirk, than thinking it was a question of competence.  From the moment Allen was made the starter until the Houston playoff game everything was great with McDermott.  Others may disagree, as is there preogitive, but I felt the loss to Houston was primarily coaching errors.  It was the first evidence that McDermott is not a great closer in key games.  We moved forward with some great preseason play and playoff play, until the 13 second game.   This game is so haunting, it is discussed quite a bit still on national media, let alone in local discussion circles.  There were two upsetting parts to this to me.  One, it seemed to be a complete coaching error.  And yet, after the game McDermott did not accept responsibility and blamed others for execution problems. (as an aside, its odd to me for coaches to thinking they are doing a good job coaching, if players do not know the play or assignments).  At this point "inability to close" became a meaningfull concern of mine.  At that point, I felt as though the onus was on McDermott to prove he could.  So far he has not.  Most NFL coaches don't get to year 6 without advancing to the super bowl at least once.  It is rare enough that some of the names of those that did are etched in NFL lore, Marvin Lewis, Marty Shottenmeimer, and a couple of others.  The only precedent I know for any NFL coach to get to year 6 with a top tier QB on the roster and no super bowl appearances is Dan Reeves with John Elway. Dan Marino made it to the Super Bowl with Shula, his second season. 

 

On a separate path, until the 2023 draft, I did not agree the roster was being properly constructed to win in today's NFL.   I don't know how much McDermott had to do with that.  But it seems from public appearance, he did not have a lot of say in the extensive focus on building the defense. 

The reason to keep McDermott for season 6, is the excellent regular season results he has generated. Those are not in dispute.  I began the season hopeful that McDermott could prove he was a closer in this years playoffs.  He still has the chance.  If we go on a tear and make the playoffs and advance until at least the AFC championship game, its an easy decision to bring him back next year.  

If the team actually fails to make the playoffs, It is not clear to me what the case for bring him back for year 7 would be.  The narrative would have to be "even great coaches have down years, plus "injuries", he deserves a shot at a bounce back year.   

If the team makes the playoffs but goes out in the divisional round again, I don't think there is a compelling case either to retain him or to fire him.  Kind of coaching purgatory. 
 

 

You spent some time on that, good post.  

 

At the center of it all is that McD may or may not have been a great hire, doesn't really matter now, it's water under the bridge.  

 

But he was hired before we drafted Allen, and before Allen became good.  

 

Had Allen in his advanced state of play, i.e., not that of his first two seasons, already been here, McD wouldn't have been an optimal hire, to understate the situation.  

 

Doubtful he even would have made the short list of candidates.  

 

Essentially it's a mismatch and that's what we're seeing.  

 

 

[Mango]

6 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

You spent some time on that, good post.  

 

At the center of it all is that McD may or may not have been a great hire, doesn't really matter now, it's water under the bridge.  

 

But he was hired before we drafted Allen, and before Allen became good.  

 

Had Allen in his advanced state of play, i.e., not that of his first two seasons, already been here, McD wouldn't have been an optimal hire, to understate the situation.  

 

Doubtful he even would have made the short list of candidates.  

 

Essentially it's a mismatch and that's what we're seeing.  

 

 

This is a good point I hadn’t thought of. 
 

I’ll add on, I don’t think McD is the dud some paint him as. He also isn’t a world beater. Good coaches run their course sometimes. It’s exceedingly rare for guys in pro sports to have tenures like Ruff and BB. 

[C.Biscuit97]

He would be the nicest dictator in history. 

[Bruffalo]

I said after the Giants game and I got roasted: I don't think Sean is a likable as an individual. 

 

That doesn't mean he's a bad coach. He's a solid coach, but he's spread too thin now. Calling the defense was a mistake, because now the other two phases of the game look like a sloppy mess. 

 

Was he a dictator to get everyone in line in 19-20-21-22?  I don't know, but he probably had more time to impose his practice like you play, hard work throughout the week values. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Bruffalo

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

This is a good point I hadn’t thought of. 
 

I’ll add on, I don’t think McD is the dud some paint him as. He also isn’t a world beater. Good coaches run their course sometimes. It’s exceedingly rare for guys in pro sports to have tenures like Ruff and BB. 

 

Waaay too many rookie mistakes several seasons into his career.  He hasn't ironed them out.  Even if the teams plays optimally, he can't be expected to not botch it for us.  

 

His teams are unprepared, and name the times when he's out-coached his peers.  It's not many.  

 

 

[Freddie's Dead]

Thread title too long. McDermott is a dick would have sufficed. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Freddie's Dead

[Chaos]

10 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

You spent some time on that, good post.  

 

At the center of it all is that McD may or may not have been a great hire, doesn't really matter now, it's water under the bridge.  

 

But he was hired before we drafted Allen, and before Allen became good.  

 

Had Allen in his advanced state of play, i.e., not that of his first two seasons, already been here, McD wouldn't have been an optimal hire, to understate the situation.  

 

Doubtful he even would have made the short list of candidates.  

 

Essentially it's a mismatch and that's what we're seeing.  

 

 

I should add, I expect the arc of happiness/concern with McDermott I described above is actually pretty close to the most common fan experience. 

There are two categorites of extreme views that I think capture the perspective of a number of posters. (Even though both are extreme and polar opposites and different from my perspecive they are both reasonable sports fans perspectives. 
 

1. Lifetime achievement award for ending the playoff drought.  The football season regular season plus playoff is 21 games. For this category of fan, as long as Coach McDermott is bringing a good show for 19 of those 21 weeks, they are happy and would rather not "risk" a return to the drought.
2. Ricky Bobby "If your not first, your last, fans".  These fans do not want to consider any measure of success other than winning the Super Bowl.  Once they are convinced Coach McDermott will not win a Super Bowl with the Bills they want him gone.  Most of this group of fans has reached this point.  
   
   There is also a third group of fans. I lean into this group quite a bit. 
    
3. Are we "wasting" Josh Allens career.   If Allen never wins a super bowl, he will join Dan Marino and Jim Kelly as 3 members of the Mount Rushmore of "greatest QBs to never win a super bowl".   To add perspective, the next group of names to fill out the fourth spot is Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts and Warren Moon.   All of whom are a substantial notch below the first three.   From a sports perspective Allen never getting that win would be very sad. 
   Your mismatch comment indicates you are in this category.   
   
   As insane as it sounds,  if the Bills don't advance to the Super Bowl this year, I think the Bills should either change the Head Coach or trade Allen to a team that can better use him.  He would generate quite a haul.  Except for McCafferty's age, the ideal trade for a retained Coach McDermott would be for Brock Purdy, Christian Mcafferty, one of the niners Linebackers and a couple of the extra second and third round draft picks the niners have stock piled. I think Shanahan would love the chance to coach a QB like Allen. 
    

[BarleyNY]

47 minutes ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

Regardless if he is a dictator or not the writing seems to be on the wall for McD’s tenure. Either the death spiral continues and he’s let go at end of the year or the ship corrects course. Issues will be if we go like 4-3 down the stretch  and either barely miss playoffs or are one and done.  During McD tenure I don’t think I have ever said that we out schemed the other side and the coaching blunders, beyond just regular crap like bad challenges and stuff, always seem to bite us. 

 

Agreed. I’d add that his team seems to be losing focus - and by that I mean that we are seeing issues with the players losing focus. Too many dumb penalties and other mistakes that we would not have seen in years past. The wheels are coming off. When that starts to happen the natural tendency is to double down, exert more control, try harder and more forcefully manage the situation. The much more difficult, but correct path is to adopt new strategies yourself and/or delegate to those that can. The latter does not always work, but the former almost never does. I suspect McDermott promoted Joe Brady in hopes that he does a better job of executing the McDermott plan for the offense than Ken Dorsey did, not to bring in fresh ideas and change course (not that much can be done midseason anyway). 

[Chaos]

5 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I suspect McDermott promoted Joe Brady in hopes that he does a better job of executing the McDermott plan for the offense than Ken Dorsey did,

This seems right.  But it begs the question. Why do you or any fan need to "suspect" this. Are the Bills faced with some competetive disadvantage if McDermott was to come out and say 1) "Joe has the reigns, and he has the vision to bring the season back on track" or 2) "I have a vision for the offense, and I think Joe is the best guy to execute this vision" ?
 

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 hours ago, RoscoeParrish said:

 

The whole "McDermott is forcing the run" narrative and “is handcuffing the offense” is completely pulled out of thin air.  We have no idea what happened with him and past OC’s.  It's like people know McD is a defensive guy so we all automatically assume he has a 1970s view of the offense as a controlling hard nose dictator.
 

Nothing has ever supported that. 

 

If I am missing actual facts that support this bogus narrative, please share them. 

I don't think the term dictator is the correct one. I think he's more of a micro-manager. 

[PBF81]

43 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I should add, I expect the arc of happiness/concern with McDermott I described above is actually pretty close to the most common fan experience. 

There are two categorites of extreme views that I think capture the perspective of a number of posters. (Even though both are extreme and polar opposites and different from my perspecive they are both reasonable sports fans perspectives. 
 

1. Lifetime achievement award for ending the playoff drought.  The football season regular season plus playoff is 21 games. For this category of fan, as long as Coach McDermott is bringing a good show for 19 of those 21 weeks, they are happy and would rather not "risk" a return to the drought.
2. Ricky Bobby "If your not first, your last, fans".  These fans do not want to consider any measure of success other than winning the Super Bowl.  Once they are convinced Coach McDermott will not win a Super Bowl with the Bills they want him gone.  Most of this group of fans has reached this point.  
   
   There is also a third group of fans. I lean into this group quite a bit. 
    
3. Are we "wasting" Josh Allens career.   If Allen never wins a super bowl, he will join Dan Marino and Jim Kelly as 3 members of the Mount Rushmore of "greatest QBs to never win a super bowl".   To add perspective, the next group of names to fill out the fourth spot is Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts and Warren Moon.   All of whom are a substantial notch below the first three.   From a sports perspective Allen never getting that win would be very sad. 
   Your mismatch comment indicates you are in this category.   
   
   As insane as it sounds,  if the Bills don't advance to the Super Bowl this year, I think the Bills should either change the Head Coach or trade Allen to a team that can better use him.  He would generate quite a haul.  Except for McCafferty's age, the ideal trade for a retained Coach McDermott would be for Brock Purdy, Christian Mcafferty, one of the niners Linebackers and a couple of the extra second and third round draft picks the niners have stock piled. I think Shanahan would love the chance to coach a QB like Allen. 
    

 

My basis for evaluation is simple, are you doing the best possible with what's at your disposal.

 

Clearly not the case re: McD.  

 

As I often say, if you get beat by a team/coach that was good and brought their best in a week-fought game, while tough, is acceptable.  

 

That's not his/our case.  It's quite the opposite in fact, and continually in key games.  

 

The other thing is that the head coach is just that, the head coach.  When you have so many systemic failures, at some limit, seemingly endless at this point, it's gotta be the head of the operation.  

 

BTW, I put the failure and underachievement of our high-ranked D's on that category.  

 

That's been my beef with this nebulous "culture" thing.  It's more like a fraternity than a business model.  

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by PBF81

[billsfan_34]

2 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Some people have had a bone to pick with McDermott dating back to 2017 when they didn’t like the choice. 

You know who they are because every time anything bad happened these last 6 years they pointed it at McD and gave all positive credit to someone else like Daboll. 
 

Now that things went south the pitchforks are out and they point at him at default with ridiculous things like “low IQ” and “dictator”. 
 

Just like many people have a weird hate towards Allen since the draft, some people have a weird hate towards McD. But now it’s just the cool thing to do, but it doesn’t really make sense. 

Perhaps some had an axe to grind from the onset, but I think it is fair to perceive many were in support of our HC (me included). I would offer the dysfunctional play this season with really poor in game decisions along with his desire to take timeouts into the half have swayed some more folks against McD. Probably 2 of the biggest mistakes during his tenure were; 12 men on the field and 13 seconds. The latter it seemed he got a pass. Now he is all out of them. The leash is short, and word on the street is Pegula is pissed.

Edited November 16, 2023 by billsfan_34

[Yobogoya!]

58 minutes ago, Mango said:

This is a good point I hadn’t thought of. 
 

I’ll add on, I don’t think McD is the dud some paint him as. He also isn’t a world beater. Good coaches run their course sometimes. It’s exceedingly rare for guys in pro sports to have tenures like Ruff and BB. 

 

It doesn't help that his side of the ball seems to let us down time and again in big moments.

 

If they were routinely stifling poor QB's and closing out games, I do think McD's seat temp would be a bit cooler, among both the fanbase and media. 

 

Contrast his situation to Saleh's, who's team has similarly invested high in the defense but who is winning games with a vastly inferior QB. 

 

Of course, if the Jets lose Q, Sauce and CJ Moseley in weeks 3-4... 

[PBF81]

37 minutes ago, Chaos said:

This seems right.  
 

 

I just thought of this.  With the litany of QBs that we had prior to Allen, McD may have been a good choice to make the most of a bad situation, but not Super Bowl aspirations perhaps.  

 

But given Allen, clearly not. 

 

 

[boater]

There's a massive amount of conjecture on the this board that becomes popularly accepted fact. That McD is a dictator is one of those created facts.

 

(out of discretion, I deleted my paragraph critical of some posters, why create animosity?)

 

[Jauronimo]

I would say hes a football coach.

 

If the rest of you nutjobs want to see him tried at the Hague that is your prerogative.  

Edited November 16, 2023 by Jauronimo

[colin]

every nfl head coach is a dictator.  that's what they are hired to be.

 

the biggest issue w our team this season is how close we are.  losses of d players suck, but the d has held most opponents to a pretty low point total.  yet they give up scores vs bad teams on 4th quarter drives most weeks, and when they didn't (nyg, tb) they come super close to giving the game away at home vs bad offenses.

 

our O turns the ball over terribly, and looks out of rhythm on like 5 or 6 of every 8 drives.  they are super predictable and make bone headed mistakes over and over.  yet, allen has walked off the field w a lead, or was driving to the end zone more or less every week of our last 6 games, and we have a great td% and epa and all of that.  yards per play is top 5 in the nfl too.

 

good situational football and better play calling/feel for the game would turn some of these close losses into wins, and frankly that's the difference between champions and no one's in the NFL.  an ironic stat i saw is that while our td% we have even since week 4 has been good, our fg% is awful.  once we get out of our own end, getting a FG here and there would put us in a pretty sweet position to win these close games.  some advantage play calls allowing the o to gain a few more yards, or the d to get off the field earlier, or slightly better punting, or any combination would set us up for wins.  all of that is a coaching issue.

 

so mcd is a dictator, but he's supposed to be.  that's fine.  but if he's a dictator who won't accept accountability and no idea how to right the ship, he should be sent packing once playoffs are out of reach to send a message that this is simply not acceptable.

[Jauronimo]

Just now, colin said:

every nfl head coach is a dictator.  that's what they are hired to be.

 

the biggest issue w our team this season is how close we are.  losses of d players suck, but the d has held most opponents to a pretty low point total.  yet they give up scores vs bad teams on 4th quarter drives most weeks, and when they didn't (nyg, tb) they come super close to giving the game away at home vs bad offenses.

 

our O turns the ball over terribly, and looks out of rhythm on like 5 or 6 of every 8 drives.  they are super predictable and make bone headed mistakes over and over.  yet, allen has walked off the field w a lead, or was driving to the end zone more or less every week of our last 6 games, and we have a great td% and epa and all of that.  yards per play is top 5 in the nfl too.

 

good situational football and better play calling/feel for the game would turn some of these close losses into wins, and frankly that's the difference between champions and no one's in the NFL.  an ironic stat i saw is that while our td% we have even since week 4 has been good, our fg% is awful.  once we get out of our own end, getting a FG here and there would put us in a pretty sweet position to win these close games.  some advantage play calls allowing the o to gain a few more yards, or the d to get off the field earlier, or slightly better punting, or any combination would set us up for wins.  all of that is a coaching issue.

 

so mcd is a dictator, but he's supposed to be.  that's fine.  but if he's a dictator who won't accept accountability and no idea how to right the ship, he should be sent packing once playoffs are out of reach to send a message that this is simply not acceptable.

Are you suggesting that NFL coaches aren't democratically elected officials?

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

It doesn't help that his side of the ball seems to let us down time and again in big moments.

 

If they were routinely stifling poor QB's and closing out games, I do think McD's seat temp would be a bit cooler, among both the fanbase and media. 

 

Contrast his situation to Saleh's, who's team has similarly invested high in the defense but who is winning games with a vastly inferior QB. 

 

Of course, if the Jets lose Q, Sauce and CJ Moseley in weeks 3-4... 

 

I agree to an extent. But even if this was the 85 bears defense, I think the offense would draw a ton of criticism still. The Diggs/Allen contracts are just too high to be stifled this often. I also think that since Josh is the franchise, when he struggles others around him take more heat for it whether or not they are to blame. Just to be clear, I think criticisms of the staff and the player are warranted. 

 

But to your point I have been pounding the table the last few seasons that we have long had some of the most highly paid front DL and/or LB groups in the league but have rarely gotten top 5 production from either. I know it is hotly contested at the moment, but I don't the defense has done "OK" this season all things considered and we don't have our starting DT, CB1, CB2, FS, and LB. There are a lot of pieces missing and we are getting winnable production out of them as long as the offense doesn't keep turning the ball over and can score more than 20 points. 

 

I think the biggest hurdle for McD is whatever is going on in the locker room/he has lost the team. 

[colin]

4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Are you suggesting that NFL coaches aren't democratically elected officials?

 

i would never!

 

 

bite your tongue.

[Yobogoya!]

13 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I agree to an extent. But even if this was the 85 bears defense, I think the offense would draw a ton of criticism still. The Diggs/Allen contracts are just too high to be stifled this often. I also think that since Josh is the franchise, when he struggles others around him take more heat for it whether or not they are to blame. Just to be clear, I think criticisms of the staff and the player are warranted. 

 

But to your point I have been pounding the table the last few seasons that we have long had some of the most highly paid front DL and/or LB groups in the league but have rarely gotten top 5 production from either. I know it is hotly contested at the moment, but I don't the defense has done "OK" this season all things considered and we don't have our starting DT, CB1, CB2, FS, and LB. There are a lot of pieces missing and we are getting winnable production out of them as long as the offense doesn't keep turning the ball over and can score more than 20 points. 

 

I think the biggest hurdle for McD is whatever is going on in the locker room/he has lost the team. 

 

Oh yeah I think the offense still deserves all the criticism in the world for its lack of production. 

 

I think what I was trying to convey is that if our defense was playing LIGHTS OUT, I'd be 99% for keeping McD and trying to bring in a proven, experienced OC next year. I mean, why roll the dice on both sides of the ball if you don't have to, right? 

 

But if McD's side of the ball is struggling AND he has no answers to fix the offense too? Then it becomes a lot harder for him to justify keeping his job. 

 

Cuz what is he truly bringing to the table? Culture? I mean his situational playcalling and challenge record speak for themselves, lol.