We need to save Josh Allen by any means necessary (the fire is gone)

[NoHuddleKelly12]

10 hours ago, Einstein said:

The Josh Allen we are seeing right now, is not who we saw the first 5 years off his career.

 

Even when he had bad stretches under Daboll, he still would come out fired up the next series. He was still ready to risk it all.

 

His fire is GONE. When he scores now, he just jogs off the field.

 

Example: After we took the lead with 2 minutes to go last night, he started to just jog off the field (zero celebration). Spencer Brown tried to get him excited and lifted him into the air. 

 

Three years ago he’d be screaming his head off and amping everyone up. Now his facial express to being hoisted after a go-ahead TD is the face of someone who looks like they’re battling depression. And no, this is not a deceptive screenshot - this is how he looked the entire post TD celebration.

 

 

 

The fire is gone and, Simon, I apologize for the salty language, but that friggin terrifies me!!!

 

Where has this gone?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

I genuinely believe that McDermott’s “never too high, never too low” mentality has absolutely zombified what made Allen special.

 

I think it’s no coincidence that McD and Daboll didn’t get along, and Josh is becoming more and more like this as the months pass without Daboll as his coach.

 

 

Could not agree more with this. The sideline sitting staring off into space when before he would be all over the sideline revving up the team is glaringly obvious, imho…hopefully a change of OC will help!!!

[Another Fan]

It's a league that tries to repress individuality more and more in general.

 

I mean heck didn't Josh get some stupid taunting penalty and fine last week.  

[CincyBillsFan]

Because I defend Allen with data & evidence I've been called an "Allen apologist" and that I have a bad case of Allen "hero worship".  So I thought about it for a few minutes and decided to explain why I'm so fired up about this topic.

 

For over 50 years I've been a passionate Buffalo Bills fan.  And throughout that long period of time I've had the joy & privilege of seeing only two elite QB's at the helm of the Bills:  Jim Kelly and now Josh Allen. And Kelly held that position for six years (1988 - 1993) and Allen has held it for three and a half years (2020 - now).  That means for over 80% of the time that I've been a Bill fan I've had to watch average to bad QBing.

 

So when Allen goes through a rough patch my first inclination is to look at all the evidence before claiming he's regressed or he wasn't really that good or he has some fatal deficiency that he won't be able to overcome.  And I remember that Kelly also went through rough patches.

 

And to date my conclusion, based on all the evidence that I've seen, is that Allen is still operating at an elite level in spite of having to deal with some serious headwinds that Kelly never had to.  So when I point out what those headwinds are it's not to make excesses for Allen but to show that his rough patches may seem worse then Kelly's because he is working in an inferior organization which has not prioritized the offense.  This means Allen has achieved elite status under much more difficult circumstances then Kelly did, IMO of course.

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

McD is gone … he might get another 12 months tops … but for the first time I’m thinking there is a chance he might be gone at the end of the season,,,

 

I hope all that is required is a new coach and the “old Josh “ is back … … 

It will also require a real commitment to fixing the O line and prioritizing the offense.  I thought about the mental relief it must be for a Mahomes or Burrow or Hurts to know deep down that their organizations will move heaven and earth to fix problems on the offense.  You can bet that Mahomes knows that once he gets through this season the Chiefs will fix his WR problem just like they fixed the O line problem coming out of their SB loss to TB.

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Because I defend Allen with data & evidence I've been called an "Allen apologist" and that I have a bad case of Allen "hero worship".  So I thought about it for a few minutes and decided to explain why I'm so fired up about this topic.

 

For over 50 years I've been a passionate Buffalo Bills fan.  And throughout that long period of time I've had the joy & privilege of seeing only two elite QB's at the helm of the Bills:  Jim Kelly and now Josh Allen. And Kelly held that position for six years (1988 - 1993) and Allen has held it for three and a half years (2020 - now).  That means for over 80% of the time that I've been a Bill fan I've had to watch average to bad QBing.

 

So when Allen goes through a rough patch my first inclination is to look at all the evidence before claiming he's regressed or he wasn't really that good or he has some fatal deficiency that he won't be able to overcome.  And I remember that Kelly also went through rough patches.

 

And to date my conclusion, based on all the evidence that I've seen, is that Allen is still operating at an elite level in spite of having to deal with some serious headwinds that Kelly never had to.  So when I point out what those headwinds are it's not to make excesses for Allen but to show that his rough patches may seem worse then Kelly's because he is working in an inferior organization which has not prioritized the offense.  This means Allen has achieved elite status under much more difficult circumstances then Kelly did, IMO of course.

 

 

 

It will also require a real commitment to fixing the O line and prioritizing the offense.  I thought about the mental relief it must be for a Mahomes or Burrow or Hurts to know deep down that their organizations will move heaven and earth to fix problems on the offense.  You can bet that Mahomes knows that once he gets through this season the Chiefs will fix his WR problem just like they fixed the O line problem coming out of their SB loss to TB.

 

 

The O line has improved this year… its the best since he has been here …

 

I would draft a Tackle early .. probably Round 1 given they are picking in the teens… they need to hit on that one …

 

Would leave C as the only issue as I expect Morse to retire …. But I think you get by with Bates for 1 year….  Not ideal but too many other problems… 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Could not agree more with this. The sideline sitting staring off into space when before he would be all over the sideline revving up the team is glaringly obvious, imho…hopefully a change of OC will help!!!

Have you considered the possibility that as a result of McD and the organization trying to calm Allen down and restrain his sugar high personality that he's been told not to be all over the sideline when the O is on the bench?  That he's been "coached" to sit there and "relax"?  I believe that this is a more likely explanation than one where Allen is suddenly so down and out that he can't lift himself off the bench and just sits there brooding.

 

From Allen's and the organizations comments it's becoming clearer and clearer that McD and the Bills are trying to fundamentally remake Allen into something they want but he's not comfortably being.  The hubris of this endeavor is off the charts but appears consistent with what we know about McD.  That this is producing a toxic environment in Allen's head seems more likely by the day.

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

The O line has improved this year… its the best since he has been here …

 

I would draft a Tackle early .. probably Round 1 given they are picking in the teens… they need to hit on that one …

 

Would leave C as the only issue as I expect Morse to retire …. But I think you get by with Bates for 1 year….  Not ideal but too many other problems… 

Yes the O line has gotten better as it is no longer near the bottom of the league.  But it is average at best with real issues at RT & Center (Morse may be to small). 

[Dablitzkrieg]

[Mango]

7 hours ago, Drew21PA said:

Something is or was or still is going on behind the scense

 

to me he is playing like a guy that is going along with the script and does NOT agree with it at all.  Lots of “I know stef i agree this is horrible but it’s what we have to do”

 

sounds of it is that McDermott is part of it as well with his slow the game down crap

idk I guess im now in the McDermott lost the locker room. O one believes in the vision anymore and it’s going bad all the way down to morale 

I agree. After last night final defensive plays where we dialed up the same blitz two plays in a row. Plus the 12 men penalty, I actually became curious as to how much McD was spending time with the offense. Like I think it might be a lot. And this is the result. This years results were so up and down. And so different from last year. 
 

We’ve seen Dorsey call a lights out game.

We have seen Josh do it. 
 

These guys are capable and one day woke up playing and calling garbage games over and over.

 

The messaging has gone stale. If Brady can’t get Josh and Co. back to having fun out there it’s time to reset this whole thing. 

[bmur66]

Allen’s issues are all coaching related and can be fixed 

[Bangarang]

I remember the days this offense completely dominated and had so much fun doing it. 
 

https://youtu.be/glM6Egc8rg4?si=vF4-IipomS2rrfOJ 

[BigDingus]

1 hour ago, bmur66 said:

Allen’s issues are all coaching related and can be fixed 

 

How? It's been 6 seasons, and he still turns the ball over constantly. Are we hoping he just reverts to averaging 1 turnover a game again instead of multiple? 

 

Since he's been in the league, he's #1 in turnovers. This is a common theme with him, and no amount of coaching has changed this. Just some seasons he has less INTs but more fumbles, and other seasons he has more INTs with less fumbles. Either way he's never ben great protecting the football.

[Governor]

16 hours ago, Pokebball said:

Coaches have made Josh into a Philip Rivers borg

Or anxiety meds.

[GunnerBill]

19 hours ago, Einstein said:

The Josh Allen we are seeing right now, is not who we saw the first 5 years off his career.

 

Even when he had bad stretches under Daboll, he still would come out fired up the next series. He was still ready to risk it all.

 

His fire is GONE. When he scores now, he just jogs off the field.

 

Example: After we took the lead with 2 minutes to go last night, he started to just jog off the field (zero celebration). Spencer Brown tried to get him excited and lifted him into the air. 

 

Three years ago he’d be screaming his head off and amping everyone up. Now his facial express to being hoisted after a go-ahead TD is the face of someone who looks like they’re battling depression. And no, this is not a deceptive screenshot - this is how he looked the entire post TD celebration.

 

 

 

The fire is gone and, Simon, I apologize for the salty language, but that friggin terrifies me!!!

 

Where has this gone?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

I genuinely believe that McDermott’s “never too high, never too low” mentality has absolutely zombified what made Allen special.

 

I think it’s no coincidence that McD and Daboll didn’t get along, and Josh is becoming more and more like this as the months pass without Daboll as his coach.

 

 

 

I agree with the premise. I disagree with the reason. I don't think you can coach someone's personality out of them. You can coach someone's play but it isn't his play. It is his whole psyche - that comes from within. I repeat what I have said elsewhere. I suspect what is causing this is not related to football. 

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with the premise. I disagree with the reason. I don't think you can coach someone's personality out of them. You can coach someone's play but it isn't his play. It is his whole psyche - that comes from within. I repeat what I have said elsewhere. I suspect what is causing this is not related to football. 

 

Have you ever had a bad boss?

 

Those who have can testify that, over time, even strong personalities can be worn down by repeated criticism, negativity, etc.

 

You’re absolutely right that it could be something outside of football too. But a coach/boss can certainly impact your psyche. And I find it highly curious that Allen didn’t start looking this way until Daboll left, and seemingly less and less fire each month he is gone.

 

[Einstein]

6 hours ago, Governor said:

Or anxiety meds.

 

I thought about this but didn’t want to bring medical into it.

 

However, since you did, I will hypothesize that it is at least possible that they prescribed him xanax or something similar to help him combat the amped up feeling that they perhaps feel leads to hero ball.

[John from Riverside]

This sounds so simplistic, but I think against the Jets I would just tell Josh to go out there and have fun
 

 

[T master]

It's the Madden curse ...

[4merper4mer]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with the premise. I disagree with the reason. I don't think you can coach someone's personality out of them. You can coach someone's play but it isn't his play. It is his whole psyche - that comes from within. I repeat what I have said elsewhere. I suspect what is causing this is not related to football. 

Have you considered that it’s simply easier to blame everyone else?

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I thought about this but didn’t want to bring medical into it.

 

However, since you did, I will hypothesize that it is at least possible that they prescribed him xanax or something similar to help him combat the amped up feeling that they perhaps feel leads to hero ball.

Not sure but aren’t those restricted/pee tested?

11 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Lol it’s literally a picture of Allen dropping the ball and everyone else getting blamed.  It’s a perfect summary.

[zow2]

I called Allen a turnover machine during the London game and people got so offended at me...calling me a hater.  My exact words were that this man (Josh) just cannot get through a game without a turnover or two.  It's like part of his DNA.

 

In my opinion, turnovers are more costly than the good plays are helpful..  Unless the offense is scoring 31+ per game.  

 

I'm not pinning all of it on Josh,  we see receivers deflecting passes instead of catching them and other guys fumbling the ball away.  But it's almost a lock that Josh will give the other team an extra possession at least once a game and kill a drive and momentum.  It an enormous problem with his game.

Edited November 15, 2023 by zow2

[Fleezoid]

Josh Allen needs to run more. He absolutely gets into a game when he busts a 20-30 yard run, especially when stiff-arming someone as he goes out of bounds. McDermott was asked early in Allen's career if he thought they needed to reign in the running and McD said something to the effect, '....it's hard to take away something that makes a player so good'. Maybe McDermott had a say, but Dorsey absolutely took it away. Daboll didn't. I'd rather have a high-risk Allen than the anemic Allen we have now. Hopefully Brady opens the offense up and brings back the Allen we knew. 

[Gregg]

38 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

This sounds so simplistic, but I think against the Jets I would just tell Josh to go out there and have fun
 

 

 

That is one defense he never has fun against. At least in recent matchups.

[GunnerBill]

59 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Have you ever had a bad boss?

 

Those who have can testify that, over time, even strong personalities can be worn down by repeated criticism, negativity, etc.

 

You’re absolutely right that it could be something outside of football too. But a coach/boss can certainly impact your psyche. And I find it highly curious that Allen didn’t start looking this way until Daboll left, and seemingly less and less fire each month he is gone.

 

 

Certainly possible, if that is the accusation that they are constantly nit picking Josh that they have eroded his confidence. I'm not sure what the evidence for that would be because other than the "learning to protect himself" comments publicly they have always been effusive over him. Of course we don't know what they say in private. But like I say to me something is off with Josh. And it goes beyond the football field. 

[FilthyBeast]

Bad coaching eventually permeates every corner of your organization and roster.

 

And as I've said many times before this is the end result of not immediately firing McD after the 13 seconds debacle. It's no coincidence that JA17 played the game of his career that day and just like this team as a whole, he's never recovered from that knowing that horrendous coaching and lack of situational awareness cost him a real shot at a superbowl.

[dorquemada]

32 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I heard baking can be therapeutic 

 

irl lol from me

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

Not sure but aren’t those restricted/pee tested?

I don't see Xanax or Alprazolam (generic for Xanax) on the NFL banned substances list.

 

Which makes sense, since i'd be surprised if the NFL didn't allow benzodiazepines to players, as they are considered a mental health medicine. 

 

https://www.nationalfootballpost.com/columns/features/nfl-banned-substance-list/

 

.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Einstein

[Einstein]

I see that fire in his eyes again!!

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Seems pretty fired up today!!

[Bills!Win!]

I love me some Josh Allen. His arch rival is not Burrow or Mahomes. It’s Josh Allen 

[WyoAZBillfan]

Not sure this aged well, of course 17 is human so maybe next week he will be damaged goods again. 
🤦🏼‍♂️

[NoSaint]

It was nice to see him medium-high positive a few times today

[Einstein]

I am giddy!
 

 

 

[GoBills808]

17 hours ago, WyoAZBillfan said:

Not sure this aged well, of course 17 is human so maybe next week he will be damaged goods again. 
🤦🏼‍♂️

It's the nature of NFL fandom

 

Every loss means something is deeply wrong, every win means everything is perfect

[RobbRiddick]