Allen’s underthrown passes

[LABILLBACKER]

There's no denying both throws were underthrown.  Hopefully no issues with the elbow. Pressure does factor in.  The Bills were doomed as soon as the schedule broke.  Throw in a 10 hour flight, garbage field and jet lag.  We didn't stand a chace.

[QLBillsFan]

44 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

no, he cannot make those passes almost ever.  When is the last in stride TD pass he has thrown over 20 yards?   He makes lazers in short windows for sure, but he needs to make the routine ones also. 

Not a routine pass .. wow the lengths your going to make your case..

[Not at the table Karlos]

3 hours ago, PayDaBill$ said:

Happens when you can’t step into a throw cleanly 

What about the one he had a clean pocket and stepped into the throw? Sometimes the throw is just off. Stop acting like Allen is perfect and never makes mistakes. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Not at the table Karlos

[Big Turk]

59 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

then he is not an elite qb.  elite qb’s make these passes.  

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hahahahahahahaha

 

Get outta here Bozo the Clown.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Big Turk

[mrags]

5 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

You jump on a thread after a game and focus on JA under throws ? No ? In a game in which he generally played well considering.. those are the facts. Just responding to your #1 topic post game.

All I did was the same thing you did. Jump into a thread that someone else made and gave my unprofessional opinion. Feel free to take it however you want. 
 

personally I think you’re pretty clueless so your opinion means nothing to me. If you feel the same, feel free to stop replying or just block me. It’s a great feature this site has. Something that isn’t taken advantage of enough by people. 

[Royale with Cheese]

41 minutes ago, mrags said:

Thank you. You get it obviously 

 

He's completely right.  Allen hasn't hit a deep ball to a WR in stride since the Steelers game last year.

 

This happened in the playoffs last year which means it was before the Steelers game.

 

This happened in week 17 last year so I believe it happened before the Steelers game.

 

This was an underthrown ball 45 yards in the air to John Brown.  

 

 

Just imagine if Tyreek Hill was hit in stride in this play.  

 

 

[QLBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, mrags said:

All I did was the same thing you did. Jump into a thread that someone else made and gave my unprofessional opinion. Feel free to take it however you want. 
 

personally I think you’re pretty clueless so your opinion means nothing to me. If you feel the same, feel free to stop replying or just block me. It’s a great feature this site has. Something that isn’t taken advantage of enough by people. 

Thanks for you input. It’s a forum for discussion. Your choice to block. I’m fine. Again enjoy the elite play from other QB’s today. It’s been fun 🤩 

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

Did you see the pressure he was under ? Just to get these passes off? Perhaps that might have something to do with it? Diggs jumps too soon.. he catches that -Bills win 

Diggs shouldn't have had to jump for the ball. Allen was under duress on both passes. The 1st pass looked like he threw it off his back foot making it short. 

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

This is not an Allen bashing thread. Please don’t turn it into one. This is a thread to talk about Allen’s tendency to underthrow this season.

 

In this particular game, Diggs torched his defender twice, deep, and I believe that there is a good chance that both would have been TD’s if the pass hit him in stride.

 

On both plays, Allen underthrew him, causing Diggs to stop running or slow down drastically.

 

He has had a couple other underthrown deep passes this season - mostly on deep throws.

 

I’m curious what you think is causing these underthrows: Do you think Allen is under-estimating how far he needs to throw it? Is it simply too far to throw? Is he not stepping into the passes? What are your thoughts?

 

This was the INT (Diggs had several steps on the defender).

 

 

And this was the deep completion to Diggs where no one covered him (he would have walked into the endzone if the ball hit him in stride).

 

I think he was tired.  Think Miami on the road last year and skipping the sure TD pass.  

[PayDaBill$]

2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

What about the one he had a clean pocket and stepped into the throw? Sometimes the throw is just off. Stop acting like Allen is perfect and never makes mistakes. 

What about the “one”….. lmao 

 

Most of the short throws today were  not clean pockets and my comment was in “general”.

 

No one implied JA was perfect. With that said  ETIENNE & RIDLEY killed us today.  I wouldn’t hang this on JA.

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by PayDaBill$

[peterpan]

4 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The first "under throw" is a play that takes a long time to develop.  Diggs was running sort of a horizontal pattern NOT a post pattern.  That pass was in fact perfectly thrown because Allen see's it and then launches it 50+ yards for a big gain. 

 

The 2nd "under thrown" pass you site was a perfectly thrown ball that Diggs should have caught giving us a 1st & goal.  Nine times out ten, Diggs maintains possession and doesn't have that ball stolen from him.

 

In both cases the goal is not to OVERTHROW the pass.  How many times watching any level of football do you see QB's miss wide open receivers by throwing the ball over their heads. On that play the first responsibility of the QB is to complete the pass.

 

 

Lol. Sorry but clearly you don’t know how QBs are taught.   on deep passes QBs are taught to throw it deeper, and never short.  Short is an INT, long is an incompletion.  No surprise Allen’s second underthrow was picked.

 

no different than throwing an out.  Always has to err to the outside, as anything inside could be an INT.

 

curl and hitch patterns low, as high passes get picked. 

[HappyDays]

Just now, peterpan said:

No surprise Allen’s second underthrow was picked.

 

In his postgame presser, Allen said the intercercepted pass was tipped as it left his hands. It still went 40+ yards in the air and hit the intended receiver in the hands.

[PayDaBill$]

Love all the arm chair qb coach guru’s out here, what a hoot!

Edited October 8, 2023 by PayDaBill$

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, peterpan said:

Lol. Sorry but clearly you don’t know how QBs are taught.   on deep passes QBs are taught to throw it deeper, and never short.  Short is an INT, long is an incompletion.  No surprise Allen’s second underthrow was picked.

 

no different than throwing an out.  Always has to err to the outside, as anything inside could be an INT.

 

curl and hitch patterns low, as high passes get picked. 

It was 3rd & 15.  If Allen overthrows Diggs they're punting.  And short is not an INT in every situation.  What I'm talkign about is when a guy breaks wide open.  Short is more often then not a completion for a big gain which is what QB's are taught to go for.  Into tight coverage an under throw can be an INT.  The throw to Diggs hit him in both hands.  It was on the money.

 

 

[BillzFreak]

2 minutes ago, PayDaBill$ said:

Love all the arm chair qb coach guru’s out here, what a hoot!

I can't believe how many ex pro football players we have on here lol

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

In his postgame presser, Allen said the intercercepted pass was tipped as it left his hands. It still went 40+ yards in the air and hit the intended receiver in the hands.

I don't know why some posters are arguing about this play.  On the replay it was clear as day that Diggs got BOTH hands on the ball before the DB made a fantastic play.  Diggs completes that catch 9 out of 10 times.

 

 

[CoudyBills]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

This is not an Allen bashing thread. Please don’t turn it into one. This is a thread to talk about Allen’s tendency to underthrow this season.

 

In this particular game, Diggs torched his defender twice, deep, and I believe that there is a good chance that both would have been TD’s if the pass hit him in stride.

 

On both plays, Allen underthrew him, causing Diggs to stop running or slow down drastically.

 

He has had a couple other underthrown deep passes this season - mostly on deep throws.

 

I’m curious what you think is causing these underthrows: Do you think Allen is under-estimating how far he needs to throw it? Is it simply too far to throw? Is he not stepping into the passes? What are your thoughts?

 

This was the INT (Diggs had several steps on the defender).

 

 

And this was the deep completion to Diggs where no one covered him (he would have walked into the endzone if the ball hit him in stride).

 

The next time Josh leads Diggs on one of these wide open deep balls, where he has beat his man, will be the first one I can remember.  I may have forgotten some where Diggs didn't have to wait or come back for it?

[Einstein]

9 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

The next time Josh leads Diggs on one of these wide open deep balls, where he has beat his man, will be the first one I can remember.  I may have forgotten some where Diggs didn't have to wait or come back for it?

 

It really is most of them.

 

The Titans game last year is one where he hit him in stride.

[Not at the table Karlos]

52 minutes ago, PayDaBill$ said:

What about the “one”….. lmao 

 

Most of the short throws today were  not clean pockets and my comment was in “general”.

 

No one implied JA was perfect. With that said  ETIENNE & RIDLEY killed us today.  I wouldn’t hang this on JA.

 

 

 

You said he couldn’t step into his throws that’s why his deep ones were short. I asked what about the deep one where he could and did step into it and it was still short. There’s much more that goes into it than he couldn’t step into it. 
 

I’m not hanging it on Josh. Just pointing out that “general” comments are dumb and don’t add anything. The discussion was also about the deep balls so what do the short ones have to do with it?

Edited October 8, 2023 by Not at the table Karlos

[peterpan]

25 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

In his postgame presser, Allen said the intercercepted pass was tipped as it left his hands. It still went 40+ yards in the air and hit the intended receiver in the hands.

I can believe that.  It would confirm he was trying to throw it further.

22 minutes ago, PayDaBill$ said:

Love all the arm chair qb coach guru’s out here, what a hoot!

You don’t have to be in the NFL to understand some of this stuff.  I was taught about those routes and how to throw them in middle school.  Maybe even earlier.

 

also, with thousands of posters, it’s inevitable that this board has people who played high level HS, or college, or even coach- in HS or a college grad assistant, something.  And those people do know what they are talking about.

 

there was a poster on here years ago, tgreg or something.  He got into a lot of arguments on here, and he was clearly right about basic stuff, so I found myself defending him a lot.  We ended up direct messaging each other somehow, and he told me how he played in college and was now coaching.  Made perfect sense.
 

 

11 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

The next time Josh leads Diggs on one of these wide open deep balls, where he has beat his man, will be the first one I can remember.  I may have forgotten some where Diggs didn't have to wait or come back for it?

I recall Allen overthrowing guys a lot  early in his career.  He’s obviously taking some heat off his deep shots this year, and it looks awkward.  I wish he’d zing them in there, he seems to do better when he rifles them downfield - like a few of those TDs to feet-for-hands Davis recently.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

What a joke of a thread. 

 

When a throw goes 40+ yards in the air the goal is to just get a completion. Hitting the WR in stride would be a nice bonus, but rarely happens. 

 

These are deep throw stats last year

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-all-32-nfl-starters-by-deep-passing-performance-in-2022

 

League average looks to be under 40% completion on deep throws.

 

Be happy we have a guy that can chuck it that far and still be accurate with it, even if he's not perfect with it. 

 

 

 

 

[KOKBILLS]

All this is in indicative of is how close the Bills were to winning this game. It's a couple yards... That's it... But in the NFL it's that hard to execute at times. So many factors. I can live with both of those passes. One is a HUGE gain, and the other 9 times out of 10 that DB does not strip Diggs. 

[harmonkillebrew]

Allen used to overthrew these regularly. He seems to have corrected that to err on the side of giving the WR a chance to make a play.  But it seems to be a little too cautious now. He needs to find the right balance

[Einstein]

59 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

What a joke of a thread. 

 

When a throw goes 40+ yards in the air the goal is to just get a completion. Hitting the WR in stride would be a nice bonus, but rarely happens. 

 

These are deep throw stats last year

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-all-32-nfl-starters-by-deep-passing-performance-in-2022

 

League average looks to be under 40% completion on deep throws.

 

Those stats are counting ALL deep throws. Including covered deep throws, jump ball deep throws, passes that should have been called pass interference deep throws, etc.

 

Throws to wide open receivers would be a much much much higher completion rate. 

[Buckets]

16 hours ago, DapperCam said:

Both passes were 55-60 air yards while under pressure. People here have completely unrealistic expectations about how far a QB can throw accurately.

 

If you want to blame Allen, blame him for not throwing it sooner, but the distance was as far as he could physically throw it under the circumstances.

I would agree with the sooner part on a couple of throws, the 2 point conversion for instance.

[GunnerBill]

15 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I call you out on claiming you're the biggest Allen fan out there.  To many times on 2BD you guys throw that out while taking completely unjustified shots at Allen.  On the 2nd deep throw to Diggs the replay was clear - Diggs had both hands on the ball and should have came down with it to give the Bills a 1st & goal at the 5.  That was an elite 55 yard throw by Allen to his #1 play making WR. And 9 times out of 10 Diggs makes that catch. To suggest that this accurate observation is "making excuses is wrong.

 

 

 

 

It was right infront of me. Diggs had his man beat. He had to come back to the ball. It was underthrown there is no doubt about it. I need to watch back to see just how much pressure Josh was under when he let it go... it might explain it. But it wasn't an elite throw that Diggs should have come down with. It was an underthrown ball that was a 60-40 DB pick. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Thin line between under throwing and late.

 

Allen was late to Diggs. But that’s him reading short to deep. He’s been trying to focus on that.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It was right infront of me. Diggs had his man beat. He had to come back to the ball. It was underthrown there is no doubt about it. I need to watch back to see just how much pressure Josh was under when he let it go... it might explain it. But it wasn't an elite throw that Diggs should have come down with. It was an underthrown ball that was a 60-40 DB pick. 

Allen said in the post game that the ball slipped in his hand, regrabbed it as he threw it….that lead to the underthrow.

[JerseyBills]

17 hours ago, mrags said:

Careful there. I’ve brought this exact thing up in the past. And people just keep telling me that the throws are amazing and not many in the league can make these throws. Still doesn’t take away from the fact that he seems to consistently underthrow passes when his WRs are streaking deep for what should be walk in TDs.
 

he’s done this since he started in the league. His first few years he had quite a few of these to Foster and Brown as well.  

Happened last week to Diggs too on sideline,  luckily turned into a p.i

[Matt_In_NH]

On deep throws Allen has always been see it throw it vs using anticipation.  I would say he has always had inconsistencies with really deep throws.  Earlier in His career he always overthrew them.  Now he tends to under throw but the guys catch it and it is a big gain.  

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Allen said in the post game that the ball slipped in his hand, regrabbed it as he threw it….that lead to the underthrow.

 

Thank you. Makes sense to me. 

[Gregg]

17 hours ago, BBFL said:

Not sure. Lack of solid protection he’s had the past couple of games but more so the weird way Josh was slower through his reads than normal. 
 

Adjustment and travel definitely played a part today. Unfortunately we did not overcome them. 

 

I didn't understand why the Bills left for London on Thursday. Not taking anything away from the Jaguars as they made the plays to win but the Bills had to have been jet lagged. During yesterday's Steelers - Ravens game they said the Ravens will be leaving for London on Monday for their game next Sunday against the Titans. The Bills should have left on Monday as well. Maybe it would have helped. Who knows.

[Shortchaz]

Josh still struggles with putting some loft/touch on a variety of throws. One example was the first touchdown. He rifled the ball to digs when he had the entire back of the endzone. 
 

he doesn’t throw the most receiver-friendly ball 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Shortchaz

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Some of you guys just kill me. Season after season, every loss and your focus of priority is on the QB as the biggest issue. This goes back to when a couple of you had third round grades on Allen, and with Mason Rudolph being a high first round preference. You know who are, and so do alot of people, it stings to not be the experts you claim to be. But, can you at least just drop the Allen is the biggest reason we lost everytime we lose. The shtick is pathetic to then claim you love him now. You don't, you are not objective, an you can't because you can't get over yourselves being wrong.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Some of you guys just kill me. Season after season, every loss and your focus of priority is on the QB as the biggest issue. This goes back to when a couple of you had third round grades on Allen, and with Mason Rudolph being a high first round preference. You know who are, and so do alot of people, it stings to not be the experts you claim to be. But, can you at least just drop the Allen is the biggest reason we lost everytime we lose. The shtick is pathetic to then claim you love him now. You don't, you are not objective, an you can't because you can't get over yourselves being wrong.

 

This is completely inaccurate.

 

McDermott and Dorsey are by far, by far the most criticized after a loss.  There is Fire McDermott and Dorsey almost weekly on here. 

[BBFL]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

I didn't understand why the Bills left for London on Thursday. Not taking anything away from the Jaguars as they made the plays to win but the Bills had to have been jet lagged. During yesterday's Steelers - Ravens game they said the Ravens will be leaving for London on Monday for their game next Sunday against the Titans. The Bills should have left on Monday as well. Maybe it would have helped. Who knows.

Absolutely strange that one team takes the precautions for acclimating but Buffalo didn’t. Don’t know if we’ll ever get full clarity as to why we went so late in the week. 
 

Don’t think there is any maybe or doubt as to if leaving early would have helped or not. It would have. Can’t explain it but anyone who travels frequently will tell you that time zoning can whoop you. What’s weirder is that traveling within the US isn’t as bad (East to West/West to East) as traveling across the Atlantic. 
 

To make matters worse, both cornerstones to our offense, Diggs and Allen stated they didn’t get any rest on the journey. They essentially, at least to my guess, would be playing catch up. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, BBFL said:

Absolutely strange that one team takes the precautions for acclimating but Buffalo didn’t. Don’t know if we’ll ever get full clarity as to why we went so late in the week. 
 

Don’t think there is any maybe or doubt as to if leaving early would have helped or not. It would have. Can’t explain it but anyone who travels frequently will tell you that time zoning can whoop you. What’s weirder is that traveling within the US isn’t as bad (East to West/West to East) as traveling across the Atlantic. 
 

To make matters worse, both cornerstones to our offense, Diggs and Allen stated they didn’t get any rest on the journey. They essentially, at least to my guess, would be playing catch up. 

 

I mean... they had a 2 week stay... 

[BBFL]

21 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I mean... they had a 2 week stay... 

 

Was talking about Baltimore. @Gregg mentioned they were talking about Baltimore leaving Monday during the Pitt/Balt’ broadcast…

Not Jacksonville. 

[T master]

19 hours ago, Einstein said:

This is not an Allen bashing thread. Please don’t turn it into one. This is a thread to talk about Allen’s tendency to underthrow this season.

 

In this particular game, Diggs torched his defender twice, deep, and I believe that there is a good chance that both would have been TD’s if the pass hit him in stride.

 

On both plays, Allen underthrew him, causing Diggs to stop running or slow down drastically.

 

He has had a couple other underthrown deep passes this season - mostly on deep throws.

 

I’m curious what you think is causing these underthrows: Do you think Allen is under-estimating how far he needs to throw it? Is it simply too far to throw? Is he not stepping into the passes? What are your thoughts?

 

This was the INT (Diggs had several steps on the defender).

 

 

And this was the deep completion to Diggs where no one covered him (he would have walked into the endzone if the ball hit him in stride).

 

 

There were also a couple i saw that were to high like the ones to Knox they were just at his finger tips even when he jumped if they would have been just a smidge lower it would have been a catch . But those things & all the others that happened in that game causes a loss .

 

They will come back from it just have faith !! GO BILLS ...

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Allen said in the post game that the ball slipped in his hand, regrabbed it as he threw it….that lead to the underthrow.

 

I didn’t hear that in the press conference. Well that explains that. It was a TD all day if hit in stride. 
 

Did he mention what happened on the first long throw to Diggs? The one where no defender was within 15 yards of him?