Allen’s underthrown passes

[UKBillFan]

9 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Bingo. 

But when your goal is to take back door swipes at Allen you start a thread like this one claiming you don't want to turn it into a hate Allen fest.  For me this crap gets old.  The two long throws Allen made to Diggs were exactly how you want him to do it. As I said before Diggs makes that catch 9 times out of 10.  On that particular throw the DB made an awesome play to steal the ball away.

 

 

 

 

 

Personally thought Diggs could have done better with the second one. Was basically wrestled away from him.

Edited October 8, 2023 by UKBillFan

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, UKBillFan said:

 

Pewrsonally thought Diggs could have done better with the second one. Was basically wrestled away from him.

It absolutely was.  Like I said before Diggs makes that catch 9 times out of 10.  It was a great play by the DB.  That play was an elite throw by Allen to his #1 play making WR.

 

 

[Donuts and Doritos]

Josh wasn't the problem today. More worried about the injuries, Dorsey play calling, dropped balls, pass protection, run game, inconsistent play and about 100 other things first.

[CincyBillsFan]

51 minutes ago, mrags said:

Yeah. Your exactly the type I’m saying always makes excuses. 
 

same. Excuses. 

listen. I’m the biggest Josh fan. Always have been. He’s the guy I wanted to draft all along. He’s the guy that I saw something special in him very early. I’ll always be a Josh fan. But that doesn’t mean everything he does is perfect. He underthrows a lot of deep balls and makes his WR have to stop or come back from an all out sprint on their routes. 
 

I am still a fan of him but I realize this is something he could get better on. If you don’t see it, then I don’t know what to tell you. 

I call you out on claiming you're the biggest Allen fan out there.  To many times on 2BD you guys throw that out while taking completely unjustified shots at Allen.  On the 2nd deep throw to Diggs the replay was clear - Diggs had both hands on the ball and should have came down with it to give the Bills a 1st & goal at the 5.  That was an elite 55 yard throw by Allen to his #1 play making WR. And 9 times out of 10 Diggs makes that catch. To suggest that this accurate observation is "making excuses is wrong.

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

The interception to diggs I believe he absolutely was getting pressure in his face

 

Couldn't step up... And still threw the ball 60 yards in the air

 

That may well be the case. That is something I immediately thought but it was a definite underthrow. There may well be a reason.

[Dr.Sack]

Allen’s final step will be throwing guys open into space. This will get us more RAC.

[sven233]

Not all of the under throws were on him, but I know there was at least one to Diggs I thought should have been a TD early.  The other ones he was a little rushed and really didn't get a chance to step into them.  But, honestly, those were far from the problem today.

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

I actually don’t remember. Was he under pressure on those two throws? I took screenshots mid game.

Yes, under pressure on both. He hits those with no pressure 

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Allen’s final step will be throwing guys open into space. This will get us more RAC.

 

Have you not watched the outstanding anticipation he has been throwing with for weeks now?

[78thealltimegreat]

I do agree with what some have said Josh knows he can just wire the thing but he’s more worried about taking a completion than risk missing a guy open running in stride. 
That second throw was a great play by the DB but that’s not Steph’s game to really make a contested catch I will tell you this is where people will say Dehop makes that catch 10 outta 10 times. 

[mrags]

16 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I call you out on claiming you're the biggest Allen fan out there.  To many times on 2BD you guys throw that out while taking completely unjustified shots at Allen.  On the 2nd deep throw to Diggs the replay was clear - Diggs had both hands on the ball and should have came down with it to give the Bills a 1st & goal at the 5.  That was an elite 55 yard throw by Allen to his #1 play making WR. And 9 times out of 10 Diggs makes that catch. To suggest that this accurate observation is "making excuses is wrong.

 

 

 

Yes. I am a huge Allen fan. And I don’t think I have knocked on him for just about anything in 5+ years other than the once in a while, had a terrible game. Which is expected every one in a while. But I have commented in the past that this has been an issue for Allen. Imo. I call it like I see it. 
 

yes. It was a great 55yards throw. But here’s the kicker. Diggs had separation  on his DB. And if it was a 57 yard throw it’s a walk in TD. You can believe whatever you want. 
 

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by mrags

[buffblue]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

Careful there. I’ve brought this exact thing up in the past. And people just keep telling me that the throws are amazing and not many in the league can make these throws. Still doesn’t take away from the fact that he seems to consistently underthrow passes when his WRs are streaking deep for what should be walk in TDs.
 

he’s done this since he started in the league. His first few years he had quite a few of these to Foster and Brown as well.  

There was one late in the blowout last week. Davis caught the ball but had to wait for it. Allen was throwing a bit off his back foot however due to pressure

[mrags]

Just now, buffblue said:

There was one late in the blowout last week. Davis caught the ball but had to wait for it. Allen was throwing a bit off his back foot however due to pressure

Go back and watch a lot of his deep throws.  Happens more than you think. 

[Mango]

Allen used to put everything on a frozen rope with almost no window for error and difficult to catch. 
 

I think this has been his correction. But I wish he’d have it more dialed in. 

 

Today wasn’t on Allen. 

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Personally thought Diggs could have done better with the second one. Was basically wrestled away from him.

 

He didn't have the momentum. He was trying to come back to the ball. The DB was attacking it. Just the laws of physics favoured the defender. Would have been an incredible grab if he came down with it.

Edited October 8, 2023 by GunnerBill

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

I think Allen thinks he would rather complete the pass and ensure a completion rather than make a riskier throw and potentially miss.

 

then he is not an elite qb.  elite qb’s make these passes.  

[QLBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Allen’s final step will be throwing guys open into space. This will get us more RAC.

Right cause he never does that??? 

Just now, RyanC883 said:

 

then he is not an elite qb.  elite qb’s make these passes.  

You’re a funny person who doesn’t understand the game. 

[Mikie2times]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I call you out on claiming you're the biggest Allen fan out there.  To many times on 2BD you guys throw that out while taking completely unjustified shots at Allen.  On the 2nd deep throw to Diggs the replay was clear - Diggs had both hands on the ball and should have came down with it to give the Bills a 1st & goal at the 5.  That was an elite 55 yard throw by Allen to his #1 play making WR. And 9 times out of 10 Diggs makes that catch. To suggest that this accurate observation is "making excuses is wrong.

 

 

 

No topic seems to offend our fan base more than talking about Josh in a critical way. So maybe people are just trying to talk in a way that will allow some level of conversation. Josh did not seem to be the problem in this game. He played well. As far as if he should have hit those deep throws, maybe it does have some merit. When is the last pure deep ball Josh has hit in stride? Pittsburgh last year? It seems like he is often late on these. He's also a viable MVP candidate. Even if he misses some deep balls.  

[Eastport bills]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

This is not an Allen bashing thread. Please don’t turn it into one. This is a thread to talk about Allen’s tendency to underthrow this season.

 

In this particular game, Diggs torched his defender twice, deep, and I believe that there is a good chance that both would have been TD’s if the pass hit him in stride.

 

On both plays, Allen underthrew him, causing Diggs to stop running or slow down drastically.

 

He has had a couple other underthrown deep passes this season - mostly on deep throws.

 

I’m curious what you think is causing these underthrows: Do you think Allen is under-estimating how far he needs to throw it? Is it simply too far to throw? Is he not stepping into the passes? What are your thoughts?

 

This was the INT (Diggs had several steps on the defender).

 

 

And this was the deep completion to Diggs where no one covered him (he would have walked into the endzone if the ball hit him in stride).

 

The reason they were under thrown was Josh  was trying to avoid pressure and wanted to step up but needed to make sure the ball was out before rushers got to his arm. They were also 50+ yds in the air and were there in time. 

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, QLBillsFan said:

Right cause he never does that??? 

You’re a funny person who doesn’t understand the game. 

 I do understand the game.  Nice addition there.   If Allen is afraid of overthrowing so his correction is to routinely under-throw, he is not elite.  Had Diggs wide open, no need to hang onto the ball that long. 

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

No topic seems to offend our fan base more than talking about Josh in a critical way. So maybe people are just trying to talk in a way that will allow some level of conversation. Josh did not seem to be the problem in this game. He played well. As far as if he should have hit those deep throws, maybe it does have some merit. When is the last pure deep ball Josh has hit in stride? Pittsburgh last year? It seems like he is often late on these. He's also a viable MVP candidate. Even if he misses some deep balls.  

 

Bingo.  But if he can make those deep throws, that would be great.  Most QB’s can hit an open WR in stride.  Is it a practice issue of reps with said Wr? 

[QLBillsFan]

Just now, RyanC883 said:

 I do understand the game.  Nice addition there.   If Allen is afraid of overthrowing so his correction is to routinely under-throw, he is not elite.  Had Diggs wide open, no need to hang onto the ball that long. 

Ok your the man 👍.. go enjoy the elite qb’s playing 

[RyanC883]

Just now, QLBillsFan said:

Ok your the man 👍.. go enjoy the elite qb’s playing 

 

there are not many right now.  Ja is the closest, IMO.  but thanks for the contributions and insight.  

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

No topic seems to offend our fan base more than talking about Josh in a critical way. So maybe people are just trying to talk in a way that will allow some level of conversation. Josh did not seem to be the problem in this game. He played well. As far as if he should have hit those deep throws, maybe it does have some merit. When is the last pure deep ball Josh has hit in stride? Pittsburgh last year? It seems like he is often late on these. He's also a viable MVP candidate. Even if he misses some deep balls.  

Thank you. You get it obviously 

[Shemp]

I think it's a chronic problem that for some reason, Josh doesn't have a good ability to lead his receivers. 

[QLBillsFan]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

there are not many right now.  Ja is the closest, IMO.  but thanks for the contributions and insight.  

No thank you my eyes 👀 have been opened .. appreciate you 

[BillzFreak]

6 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

then he is not an elite qb.  elite qb’s make these passes.  

So all the other elite passes he makes means nothing because of the 2 he threw today? Is that how it works now?

[QLBillsFan]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Thank you. You get it obviously 

When the rest of the team plays poorly ?? Yeah misguided energy around JA turrible throws 😂 

[RyanC883]

Just now, BillzFreak said:

So all the other elite passes he makes means nothing because of the 2 he threw today? Is that how it works now?

 

no, he cannot make those passes almost ever.  When is the last in stride TD pass he has thrown over 20 yards?   He makes lazers in short windows for sure, but he needs to make the routine ones also. 

[JMM]

It is weird, I've noticed that this year. Used to be the opposite! He would sail his long passes..🤷‍♂️

[Aimee75]

Total offense today was 388 or something like that. Josh had about 360 yards, 3 TDs today. I am so mad at myself for even being involved in this thread. My bad.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

Careful there. I’ve brought this exact thing up in the past. And people just keep telling me that the throws are amazing and not many in the league can make these throws. Still doesn’t take away from the fact that he seems to consistently underthrow passes when his WRs are streaking deep for what should be walk in TDs.
 

he’s done this since he started in the league. His first few years he had quite a few of these to Foster and Brown as well.  

Lol it’s clearly under thrown but an impressive enough play given the circumstances.  No one is telling you the throw was perfectly on target but when he’s dancing around in a collapsing pocket to buy enough time to make that play you’ve gotta give him some benefit of the doubt 

 

I think most of it is negative bias where he hits a deep throw in stride and people just take it for granted and when one is slightly off target it seems like he’s missing them all 

[bills11]

It's Josh overcompensating for his arm strength most likely..in the his first few years Allen would at times over throw ( not enough arc) john brown and diggs the first season he came to Buffalo so he tends to leave them a bit shorter at times. But in alot of these cases its just him missing because hes unable to step in due to pressure 

[mrags]

7 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

When the rest of the team plays poorly ?? Yeah misguided energy around JA turrible throws 😂 

Ugh. Never said that. Keep putting words in my mouth 

2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Lol it’s clearly under thrown but an impressive enough play given the circumstances.  No one is telling you the throw was perfectly on target but when he’s dancing around in a collapsing pocket to buy enough time to make that play you’ve gotta give him some benefit of the doubt 

 

I think most of it is negative bias where he hits a deep throw in stride and people just take it for granted and when one is slightly off target it seems like he’s missing them all 

I’ll just keep saying. Start watching his deep throws. Happens more than you think 

[Einstein]

7 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

Total offense today was 388 or something like that. Josh had about 360 yards, 3 TDs today. I am so mad at myself for even being involved in this thread. My bad.

 

That’s kind of a misrepresentation of todays offensive performance though.

 

Nearly half (43%) of the offenses total yardage came in the last 3 minutes and 41 seconds of the game.

 

For the vast majority of the game, we could not move the ball.

 

Our drives prior to those final 3 minutes were:

 

Punt

Punt

Punt

Punt

Touchdown

Punt

Punt

Interception

 

.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Einstein

[Dr.Sack]

21 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Have you not watched the outstanding anticipation he has been throwing with for weeks now?

Agreed he’s been doing that extremely well. 

[BillzFreak]

2 minutes ago, JMM said:

It is weird, I've noticed that this year. Used to be the opposite! He would sail his long passes..🤷‍♂️

He is throwing with more touch to give his receivers a chance to make a play. It's plain and simple. Our receivers aren't waddle or hill so yes Josh is taking velocity off to make sure he has a higher chance of completing it. And so far in all reality it's working.

[HappyDays]

35 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He didn't have the momentum. He was trying to come back to the ball. The DB was attacking it. Just the laws of physics favoured the defender. Would have been an incredible grab if he came down with it.

 

I've seen Diggs make that exact catch several times. Two that I can remember off the top of my head were against Oakland and Miami in 2020. Allen was giving his WR1 a chance against a 5'9 CB with pressure all around him. Diggs knows he should have had that one... But I won't get too mad at him, he was the only offensive player other than Allen to show up consistently before the game was out of hand.

[Drew21PA]

No film study and zero preparation he is a slacker

[Aimee75]

24 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

That’s kind of a misrepresentation of todays offensive performance though.

 

Nearly half (43%) of the offenses total yardage came in the last 3 minutes and 41 seconds of the game.

 

For the vast majority of the game, we could not move the ball.

 

Our drives prior to those final 3 minutes were:

 

Punt

Punt

Punt

Punt

Touchdown

Punt

Punt

Interception

 

.

It's not misrepsentation, HE WAS the reason we had a chance. It's not like the game was ever out of hand.

 

Good defense by The Jags, sus calling on offense(trying to get Cooks run game going when it wasn't working), dropped passes, egregious flags and a half dead defense, yet we had a chance, mostly because of Allen and Epenesa.

[QLBillsFan]

34 minutes ago, mrags said:

Ugh. Never said that. Keep putting words in my mouth 

I’ll just keep saying. Start watching his deep throws. Happens more than you think 

You jump on a thread after a game and focus on JA under throws ? No ? In a game in which he generally played well considering.. those are the facts. Just responding to your #1 topic post game.