Allen’s underthrown passes

[Einstein]

This is not an Allen bashing thread. Please don’t turn it into one. This is a thread to talk about Allen’s tendency to underthrow this season.

 

In this particular game, Diggs torched his defender twice, deep, and I believe that there is a good chance that both would have been TD’s if the pass hit him in stride.

 

On both plays, Allen underthrew him, causing Diggs to stop running or slow down drastically.

 

He has had a couple other underthrown deep passes this season - mostly on deep throws.

 

I’m curious what you think is causing these underthrows: Do you think Allen is under-estimating how far he needs to throw it? Is it simply too far to throw? Is he not stepping into the passes? What are your thoughts?

 

This was the INT (Diggs had several steps on the defender).

 

 

And this was the deep completion to Diggs where no one covered him (he would have walked into the endzone if the ball hit him in stride).

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Einstein

[Buffalo03]

Not sure what the problem is. Bench him

[QLBillsFan]

Did you see the pressure he was under ? Just to get these passes off? Perhaps that might have something to do with it? Diggs jumps too soon.. he catches that -Bills win 

[BBFL]

Not sure. Lack of solid protection he’s had the past couple of games but more so the weird way Josh was slower through his reads than normal. 
 

Adjustment and travel definitely played a part today. Unfortunately we did not overcome them. 

[mrags]

Careful there. I’ve brought this exact thing up in the past. And people just keep telling me that the throws are amazing and not many in the league can make these throws. Still doesn’t take away from the fact that he seems to consistently underthrow passes when his WRs are streaking deep for what should be walk in TDs.
 

he’s done this since he started in the league. His first few years he had quite a few of these to Foster and Brown as well.  

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Did you see the pressure he was under ? Just to get these passes off? Perhaps that might have something to do with it? Diggs jumps too soon.. he catches that -Bills win 

 

I actually don’t remember. Was he under pressure on those two throws? I took screenshots mid game.

[PayDaBill$]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Diggs torched his defender deep, twice, and both would have been TD’s if the pass hit him in stride.

 

On both plays, Allen underthrew him, causing Diggs to stop running or slow down drastically.

 

He has had a couple other underthrown deep passes this season.

 

I’m curious what you think is causing these underthrows: Do you think Allen is under-estimating how far he needs to throw it? Is he not stepping into the passes? What are your thoughts?

 

This was the INT (should have been a TD).

 

 

And this was the deep completion to Diggs where no one covered him:

 

Happens when you can’t step into a throw cleanly 

[CincyBillsFan]

The first "under throw" is a play that takes a long time to develop.  Diggs was running sort of a horizontal pattern NOT a post pattern.  That pass was in fact perfectly thrown because Allen see's it and then launches it 50+ yards for a big gain. 

 

The 2nd "under thrown" pass you site was a perfectly thrown ball that Diggs should have caught giving us a 1st & goal.  Nine times out ten, Diggs maintains possession and doesn't have that ball stolen from him.

 

In both cases the goal is not to OVERTHROW the pass.  How many times watching any level of football do you see QB's miss wide open receivers by throwing the ball over their heads. On that play the first responsibility of the QB is to complete the pass.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I actually don’t remember. Was he under pressure on those two throws? I took screenshots mid game.

The interception to diggs I believe he absolutely was getting pressure in his face

 

Couldn't step up... And still threw the ball 60 yards in the air

 

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Aimee75]

FFS.

[mrags]

I’ll add to my last post. If you want to give him credit for throwing a great ball regardless. For throwing with pressure in his face. That’s all fine. But then you need to take away from the fact that he was at least a little late in  getting the ball out. Either one, a quicker read and same throw, or a throw with a little more mustard in in and they are both walk in TDs. 
 

and there was a point in the game that Diggs got all pissed looking at the previous plays on the tablet. Probably saw the same thing. He was wide open for a walk in TD and Josh missed him. 

[Big Turk]

I think Allen thinks he would rather complete the pass and ensure a completion rather than make a riskier throw and potentially miss.

[QLBillsFan]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Careful there. I’ve brought this exact thing up in the past. And people just keep telling me that the throws are amazing and not many in the league can make these throws. Still doesn’t take away from the fact that he seems to consistently underthrow passes when his WRs are streaking deep for what should be walk in TDs.
 

he’s done this since he started in the league. His first few years he had quite a few of these to Foster and Brown as well.  

Your kidding ? Walk in TD’s ??? That’s laughable.. neither was remotely close to a walk in. The first one had a S closing and the 2nd one JA was heaving it under pressure. Keep the argument in vicinity of reality for credibility. The first one was under thrown is fair.

[Aimee75]

359 yards, 3 TDS, yeah, HE was the problem today.

 

When we lose, the Josh haters(some trolls) on this forum will show themselves.

[zow2]

He was sleepy.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Underthrows aside because I’m not so sure about those, Allen definitely missed on a few of his balls today. He wasn’t as surgical as he has been in the past. 
 

I can think of a could balls he sailed (one to Davis on a slant) that he otherwise usually connects on. 

[PromoTheRobot]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Diggs torched his defender deep, twice, and both would have been TD’s if the pass hit him in stride.

 

On both plays, Allen underthrew him, causing Diggs to stop running or slow down drastically.

 

He has had a couple other underthrown deep passes this season.

 

I’m curious what you think is causing these underthrows: Do you think Allen is under-estimating how far he needs to throw it? Is he not stepping into the passes? What are your thoughts?

 

This was the INT (should have been a TD).

 

 

And this was the deep completion to Diggs where no one covered him:

 

 

Both are true. It wasn't Josh's best game.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

He's still overcorrecting from a few years ago. When he missed his long passes in the past they were too far. Now it seems he is trying his best not to overshoot the WR. 

[Since1981]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I think Allen thinks he would rather complete the pass and ensure a completion rather than make a riskier throw and potentially miss.

 

I hope that’s it. I wondered about this as a specific safer choice Vs elbow 

[mrags]

1 minute ago, QLBillsFan said:

Your kidding ? Walk in TD’s ??? That’s laughable.. neither was remotely close to a walk in. The first one had a S closing and the 2nd one JA was heaving it under pressure. Keep the argument in vicinity of reality for credibility. The first one was under thrown is fair.

Yeah. Your exactly the type I’m saying always makes excuses. 
 

1 minute ago, Aimee75 said:

359 yards, 3 TDS, yeah, HE was the problem today.

 

When we lose, the Josh haters(some trolls) on this forum will show themselves.

same. Excuses. 

listen. I’m the biggest Josh fan. Always have been. He’s the guy I wanted to draft all along. He’s the guy that I saw something special in him very early. I’ll always be a Josh fan. But that doesn’t mean everything he does is perfect. He underthrows a lot of deep balls and makes his WR have to stop or come back from an all out sprint on their routes. 
 

I am still a fan of him but I realize this is something he could get better on. If you don’t see it, then I don’t know what to tell you. 

[jlgarsh]

Just my opinion, but I don't put any blame on Josh today. Receivers and playcalling let him down. Did he miss a couple throws? Sure. But no one can be perfect every week. Diggs should have come down with the ball on the INT. 

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

359 yards, 3 TDS, yeah, HE was the problem today.

 

Aimee, no one said Josh was the problem and you would be hard pressed to find a bigger Allen fan than me. 

 

Talking about two underthrown passes does not mean anyone is hating on the man.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Since1981 said:

I hope that’s it. I wondered about this as a specific safer choice Vs elbow 

 

He does it a lot.

[QLBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Underthrows aside because I’m not so sure about those, Allen definitely missed on a few of his balls today. He wasn’t as surgical as he has been in the past. 
 

I can think of a could balls he sailed (one to Davis on a slant) that he otherwise usually connects on. 

This thread is a joke. The Bills ran for zero yards. Multiple 3rd and long situations and the discussion is about JA when the OL was dreadful. 

[DapperCam]

Both passes were 55-60 air yards while under pressure. People here have completely unrealistic expectations about how far a QB can throw accurately.

 

If you want to blame Allen, blame him for not throwing it sooner, but the distance was as far as he could physically throw it under the circumstances.

[dave mcbride]

15 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Diggs torched his defender deep, twice, and both would have been TD’s if the pass hit him in stride.

 

On both plays, Allen underthrew him, causing Diggs to stop running or slow down drastically.

 

He has had a couple other underthrown deep passes this season.

 

I’m curious what you think is causing these underthrows: Do you think Allen is under-estimating how far he needs to throw it? Is he not stepping into the passes? What are your thoughts?

 

This was the INT (should have been a TD).

 

 

And this was the deep completion to Diggs where no one covered him:

 

I think a large part of it is that it’s very hard to be accurate on deep throws. It’s akin to kickers facing a 30 yard FG try and a 55 yard fg try — more room for error. All qbs are off on deep throws pretty regularly.

[Since1981]

This is not at all on 17

dorsey stuck with unproductive runs too long. Took too long to shake it up with 2 min drill 

[QLBillsFan]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Yeah. Your exactly the type I’m saying always makes excuses. 
 

same. Excuses. 

listen. I’m the biggest Josh fan. Always have been. He’s the guy I wanted to draft all along. He’s the guy that I saw something special in him very early. I’ll always be a Josh fan. But that doesn’t mean everything he does is perfect. He underthrows a lot of deep balls and makes his WR have to stop or come back from an all out sprint on their routes. 
 

I am still a fan of him but I realize this is something he could get better on. If you don’t see it, then I don’t know what to tell you. 

I am telling you what happened. You apparently can’t see anything other than the throw. I crushed JA for the Jets game. You’re way off both understanding football and who didn’t play well. No one is saying he played perfect but apparently that is your expectation. 

[Since1981]

Clark Kent sure (unproductive runs)

but Dorsey took too long to let Superman out. Ran out of time and D ran out of juice. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Since1981

[Aimee75]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Yeah. Your exactly the type I’m saying always makes excuses. 
 

same. Excuses. 

listen. I’m the biggest Josh fan. Always have been. He’s the guy I wanted to draft all along. He’s the guy that I saw something special in him very early. I’ll always be a Josh fan. But that doesn’t mean everything he does is perfect. He underthrows a lot of deep balls and makes his WR have to stop or come back from an all out sprint on their routes. 
 

I am still a fan of him but I realize this is something he could get better on. If you don’t see it, then I don’t know what to tell you. 

There are people in this forum who just wait to ***** on him when we lose a game, because of whatever reasons. They are trolls in the guise of Bills fans, people who didn't want him yet don't want to be wrong about him(don't really get that one) etc, but come on, THIS GAME? I know this is a thing in this forum? But this game? This is nitpicky as hell. Josh was not our problem today. I can absolutely see The Jets game and putting it on him, but he should be way low on the totem pole for this one. Sorry, that is my opinion. A couple "underthrown" balls was not the problem today. 

 

Being outcoached was. Going to London two days before the game was. Not being prepared was. Stupid flags and costly injuries. DROPPED passes. I would put all these things ahead of Josh. Come on now.

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Aimee, no one said Josh was the problem and you would be hard pressed to find a bigger Allen fan than me. 

 

Talking about two underthrown passes does not mean anyone is hating on the man.

There is a lot of hating in this forum, and of course, he can tweak some things, but singling him out when there were so many other issues just seems silly.

[BillzFreak]

If he throws the ball over Diggs head people are on here screaming to throw it and give Steph a chance to make a play. He threw both balls in which the receiver can make a play. The interception was honestly a great play by the corner back. I would say 9 out of 10 trys Steph comes down with that ball but today was that time he didn't.

[QLBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, mrags said:

Yeah. Your exactly the type I’m saying always makes excuses. 
 

same. Excuses. 

listen. I’m the biggest Josh fan. Always have been. He’s the guy I wanted to draft all along. He’s the guy that I saw something special in him very early. I’ll always be a Josh fan. But that doesn’t mean everything he does is perfect. He underthrows a lot of deep balls and makes his WR have to stop or come back from an all out sprint on their routes. 
 

I am still a fan of him but I realize this is something he could get better on. If you don’t see it, then I don’t know what to tell you. 

We see it. It’s your understanding of why that’s the issue. As stated he under threw the first one .. the second one was a solid throw given the situation. He’s not gonna have a 158.3 every game. Check out the OL evaluation after this game and let’s revisit JA. 

[Aimee75]

3 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

This is not at all on 17

dorsey stuck with unproductive runs too long. Took too long to shake it up with 2 min drill 

It's not on 17 at all.

 

He was one of our brighter spots today. This is ridiculous. It's just people nitpicking at what he DIDN'T do right today, as opposed to what really cost us this game. Bad coaching, flags, trying to get a run game going with Cook in crucial moments when it was clear we could not are way ahead of him.

 

Josh and AJ kept us in this game as far as I am concerned.

[mrags]

7 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

I am telling you what happened. You apparently can’t see anything other than the throw. I crushed JA for the Jets game. You’re way off both understanding football and who didn’t play well. No one is saying he played perfect but apparently that is your expectation. 

I never said it was my expectation. I simply see and understand that he’s had problems with underthrowing deep balls. 

[QLBillsFan]

Just now, mrags said:

I never said it was my expectation. I simply see and understand that he’s had problems with underthrowing deep balls. 

Ok you win 🥇 I’m done ☑️.. have a good day. Gotta watch some of the better QB’s throw 60 yard bombs under pressure 😂

[HappyDays]

QBs are coached to make sure the ball gets there first and foremost when the WR is that wide open. You don't lead them and risk an incompletion. Also I know we have been spoiled by Josh's arm for five years now but keep the pass distances in perspective. It's almost impossible to aim the throw when you launch it that far, you're just getting it in the vicinity of the pass catcher. Diggs simply misplayed the 2nd one, and he would tell you the same thing.

[Big Blitz]

I think this should be the least of our concerns.   It isn’t even one.  

[MJS]

We have a post game thread. Just put this stuff there.

[bobobonators]

31 minutes ago, Einstein said:

This is not an Allen bashing thread. Please don’t turn it into one. This is a thread to talk about Allen’s tendency to underthrow this season.

 

In this particular game, Diggs torched his defender twice, deep, and I believe that there is a good chance that both would have been TD’s if the pass hit him in stride.

 

On both plays, Allen underthrew him, causing Diggs to stop running or slow down drastically.

 

He has had a couple other underthrown deep passes this season - mostly on deep throws.

 

I’m curious what you think is causing these underthrows: Do you think Allen is under-estimating how far he needs to throw it? Is it simply too far to throw? Is he not stepping into the passes? What are your thoughts?

 

This was the INT (Diggs had several steps on the defender).

 

 

And this was the deep completion to Diggs where no one covered him (he would have walked into the endzone if the ball hit him in stride).

 

 

The Diggs one Allen threw the ball 60yds in the air. Yeh he was wide open but how much further do you want Allen to launch it in the air? 70?

[CincyBillsFan]

41 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I think Allen thinks he would rather complete the pass and ensure a completion rather than make a riskier throw and potentially miss.

Bingo. 

20 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

I think this should be the least of our concerns.   It isn’t even one.  

But when your goal is to take back door swipes at Allen you start a thread like this one claiming you don't want to turn it into a hate Allen fest.  For me this crap gets old.  The two long throws Allen made to Diggs were exactly how you want him to do it. As I said before Diggs makes that catch 9 times out of 10.  On that particular throw the DB made an awesome play to steal the ball away.