2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[Dr.Sack]

Mahomes will get MVP because he gets 2 PDI/PI calls per game to erase drive ending poor throws or picks. Allen doesn’t get that level of calls. Even Mayfield got two calls on his 2nd last drive. The one on Taron Johnson being BS and the face mask on Phillips being less egregious but borderline. Imagine if 1/2 of Allen’s 8 picks were erased due to  phantom DPI/PI calls. That is what Mahomes enjoys every week. Allen is at best MVP 2, or 3. He will never be MVP 1.

[Buffalo Ballin]

What else does he need to do??? That's complacency for ya.

 

He needs to keep leading this team to victories.

Stop throwing interceptions.

Run in for more touchdowns.

Throw more touchdowns.

 

Just keep going.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Mahomes will get MVP because he gets 2 PDI/PI calls per game to erase drive ending poor throws or picks. Allen doesn’t get that level of calls. Even Mayfield got two calls on his 2nd last drive. The one on Taron Johnson being BS and the face mask on Phillips being less egregious but borderline. Imagine if 1/2 of Allen’s 8 picks were erased due to  phantom DPI/PI calls. That is what Mahomes enjoys every week. Allen is at best MVP 2, or 3. He will never be MVP 1.

 

The two penalties on the last drive were both fouls IMO. Just piss poor execution by players who should know better.

[Dr.Sack]

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The two penalties on the last drive were both fouls IMO. Just piss poor execution by players who should know better.

But that is my point. Mahomes always gets those calls. It erases bad plays and gives him fresh set of downs. Do you not notice? 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

But that is my point. Mahomes always gets those calls. It erases bad plays and gives him fresh set of downs. Do you not notice? 

 

He gets some calls. The big name QBs tend to. Josh gets more roughing the passer calls than I think he is due because he has mastered the flop. 

[WotAGuy]

On 10/27/2023 at 12:06 AM, DapperCam said:

We’ll see what happens when Kelce retires. He’s already slowing down. He isn’t a player that can be replaced.

Come on. Anyone can put up Kelce’s numbers when they are not covered. Kelce must wear a “cloak of invisibility” or something. He runs around defenders like they are pylons. 

[The Wiz]

8 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Weakest division in football. 

Nfc South would like to throw their hat in the ring.

[Big Blitz]

If Mike White played QB for Miami they would have the exact same record.  
 

KC would be a 2-3 win team minimum.   
 

 

The Bills without Josh might be 1-6.  2-5 at best.     

[Billl]

8 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Mahomes will get MVP because he gets 2 PDI/PI calls per game to erase drive ending poor throws or picks. Allen doesn’t get that level of calls. Even Mayfield got two calls on his 2nd last drive. The one on Taron Johnson being BS and the face mask on Phillips being less egregious but borderline. Imagine if 1/2 of Allen’s 8 picks were erased due to  phantom DPI/PI calls. That is what Mahomes enjoys every week. Allen is at best MVP 2, or 3. He will never be MVP 1.

Mahomes won MVP last year and the Chiefs received the fewest pass interference calls in the entire league with 3 while being penalized for it the most times with 15.  

[FireChans]

11 hours ago, julian said:

Burrow gets a pass when he’s bad while playing injured and Allen not only doesn’t get credit for playing great last 2 seasons while injured, the media rarely acknowledges he’s playing hurt.

 

 Crazy stuff.

Honestly? Did you watch the games Burrow played when hurt?

 

How is Burrow getting a pass? He’s sucked when hurt. Media folks were saying sit him because he’s basically unplayable. 

 

also, what are Burrows MVP odds, currently? Worse than Jared Goff, Brock Purdy, Trevor Lawrence and CMC? Is that a “pass?”

 

The conflation of arguments here is hilarious. Burrow gets a “pass,” which means being basically out of contention of the MVP award by the season halfway point? Josh didn’t get a “pass” by being near the top of the NFL in MVP voting while playing through his UCL?

 

PICK ONE. 

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

If Mike White played QB for Miami they would have the exact same record.  
 

KC would be a 2-3 win team minimum.   
 

 

The Bills without Josh might be 1-6.  2-5 at best.     

Something called a Tyler Bagent blew out the Raiders. And the Bills defense shut out the Commanders, until the saddest FG of the season. 
 

Would we have a better record with Mahomes is the real question? I have to say yes. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

9 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Mahomes will get MVP because he gets 2 PDI/PI calls per game to erase drive ending poor throws or picks. Allen doesn’t get that level of calls. Even Mayfield got two calls on his 2nd last drive. The one on Taron Johnson being BS and the face mask on Phillips being less egregious but borderline. Imagine if 1/2 of Allen’s 8 picks were erased due to  phantom DPI/PI calls. That is what Mahomes enjoys every week. Allen is at best MVP 2, or 3. He will never be MVP 1.

That call on phillips was correct but it was so corny lol. If the bucs didn’t get that call I don’t think anyone would’ve complained.  Light, inconsequential facemask debatably after the play should’ve been blown dead.  If they were calling things that tight all game there would be a penalty every play 

if our offensive line builds on the bucs game I think josh has a chance at mvp.  The chiefs offense doesn’t look as sharp as it has in the past but their defense has stepped it up 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Low Positive]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Honestly? Did you watch the games Burrow played when hurt?

 

How is Burrow getting a pass? He’s sucked when hurt. Media folks were saying sit him because he’s basically unplayable. 

 

also, what are Burrows MVP odds, currently? Worse than Jared Goff, Brock Purdy, Trevor Lawrence and CMC? Is that a “pass?”

 

The conflation of arguments here is hilarious. Burrow gets a “pass,” which means being basically out of contention of the MVP award by the season halfway point? Josh didn’t get a “pass” by being near the top of the NFL in MVP voting while playing through his UCL?

 

PICK ONE. 

Something called a Tyler Bagent blew out the Raiders. And the Bills defense shut out the Commanders, until the saddest FG of the season. 
 

Would we have a better record with Mahomes is the real question? I have to say yes. 

Burrow played bad last week and he was moving around just fine. He had two good drives and then basically took a nap for the rest of the game. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

Burrow played bad last week and he was moving around just fine. He had two good drives and then basically took a nap for the rest of the game. 

The burrow injury seems like mostly a baseless excuse to me this year from what I’ve seen.  The games the bengals have looked bad the entire offense got absolutely dominated. 

[finn]

38 minutes ago, Billl said:

Mahomes won MVP last year and the Chiefs received the fewest pass interference calls in the entire league with 3 while being penalized for it the most times with 15.  

Don't let facts get in the way of conviction!

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Honestly? Did you watch the games Burrow played when hurt?

 

How is Burrow getting a pass? He’s sucked when hurt. Media folks were saying sit him because he’s basically unplayable. 

 

also, what are Burrows MVP odds, currently? Worse than Jared Goff, Brock Purdy, Trevor Lawrence and CMC? Is that a “pass?”

 

The conflation of arguments here is hilarious. Burrow gets a “pass,” which means being basically out of contention of the MVP award by the season halfway point? Josh didn’t get a “pass” by being near the top of the NFL in MVP voting while playing through his UCL?

 

PICK ONE. 

Something called a Tyler Bagent blew out the Raiders. And the Bills defense shut out the Commanders, until the saddest FG of the season. 
 

Would we have a better record with Mahomes is the real question? I have to say yes. 

I wish I could visit the alternate reality where mahomes and Allen switched teams just to see what the results would be lol comparing guys on two different teams is pretty much impossible.   Mahomes looks just as bad when his offensive line isn’t playing well, that’s just a less frequent occurrence in kc.  Some of it is on josh not throwing it hot at times but you could definitely say the same for mahomes. 

 

In the old days where guys weren’t getting much separation and the offensive line wasn’t playing well josh would have an epically horrible game and it was undoubtedly clear he was a tier below mahomes.  Now it’s a little murkier 

[balln]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He gets some calls. The big name QBs tend to. Josh gets more roughing the passer calls than I think he is due because he has mastered the flop. 

There was a stat. A year or two ago. Allen was like bottom of the league. At top was mahommes Rogers and Brady. 
 

qbs that got DPi, holding or illegal contact flags per game 

[Warcodered]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He gets some calls. The big name QBs tend to. Josh gets more roughing the passer calls than I think he is due because he has mastered the flop. 

Eh, Josh has gotten some roughing calls that have bugged people recently, but really they've just been some poor defender decision technical fouls. You can not like the roughing rule and think it's too soft and hard on defenders, but there are some clear rules in it and they kept running in to it.

[Gene Frenkle]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

Mahomes won MVP last year and the Chiefs received the fewest pass interference calls in the entire league with 3 while being penalized for it the most times with 15.  

 

I call shenanigans on your incomplete stats!

 

Mahomes (beneficiary):

DPI: 3 (t-30)

Def Holding: 16 (1) (4 more than #2)

Illegal Contact: 3 (t-9)

Roughing Passer: 3 (t-10)

 

Allen (beneficiary):

DPI: 8 (t-10)

Def Holding: 5 (t-21)

Illegal Contact: 1 (t-20)

Roughing Passer: 3 (t-10)

 

KC (against):

DPI: 15 (1) (3 more than #2)

Def Holding: 4 (t-28)

Illegal Contact: 1 (t-19)

Roughing Passer: 3 (t-15)

 

BUF (against):

DPI: 8 (t-9)

Def Holding: 11 (t-2)

Illegal Contact: 1 (t-19)

Roughing Passer: 2 (t-21)

 

Totals:

Mahomes: 25

Allen: 17

KC: 23

BUF: 22

 

And honestly, calls against the defense have little to do with how much the refs are biased in favor of a particular passer. Mahomes is getting calls to keep drives alive. 25 to Josh's 17 last year.

[GunnerBill]

37 minutes ago, balln said:

There was a stat. A year or two ago. Allen was like bottom of the league. At top was mahommes Rogers and Brady. 
 

qbs that got DPi, holding or illegal contact flags per game 

 

I was speaking specifically on RTP for Josh. He gets more than his share of those.

30 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Eh, Josh has gotten some roughing calls that have bugged people recently, but really they've just been some poor defender decision technical fouls. You can not like the roughing rule and think it's too soft and hard on defenders, but there are some clear rules in it and they kept running in to it.

 

I think Josh has got a couple that even under the current rules are not flags. 

[julian]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Honestly? Did you watch the games Burrow played when hurt?

 

How is Burrow getting a pass? He’s sucked when hurt. Media folks were saying sit him because he’s basically unplayable. 

 

also, what are Burrows MVP odds, currently? Worse than Jared Goff, Brock Purdy, Trevor Lawrence and CMC? Is that a “pass?”

 

The conflation of arguments here is hilarious. Burrow gets a “pass,” which means being basically out of contention of the MVP award by the season halfway point? Josh didn’t get a “pass” by being near the top of the NFL in MVP voting while playing through his UCL?

 

PICK ONE. 

Something called a Tyler Bagent blew out the Raiders. And the Bills defense shut out the Commanders, until the saddest FG of the season. 
 

Would we have a better record with Mahomes is the real question? I have to say yes. 

Whoa !! Lol.. I was referring more to the media, not the Vegas odds and more about the lack of injury talk around Allen’s play not so much Burrow.

 

 Allen plays hurt and is still among the MVP leaders because he’s that dude.

 

Burrow simply isn’t built like that.

[Don Otreply]

13 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

He’s probably going to have to win a Super Bowl before he wins an MVP…. Pre-draft narrative, Buffalo narrative, inconsistency narrative, etc. It’s a fair amount to overcome. They’ve painted him down, and unfortunately for his MVP chances a bunch of those “journalists” clinging on to those aforementioned narratives have votes. 

It’s all because of the smoking man, he dislikes the Bills and has connections in high places…, 

[The Wiz]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I was speaking specifically on RTP for Josh. He gets more than his share of those.

 

I think Josh has got a couple that even under the current rules are not flags. 

That's because he's a hell of an actor.

 

Must be getting lessons from hailee.

 

Notice how often when the defender hit him up high he snaps his head back to try to bait the call.  I personally don't care for the embellishing but I like winning more so ***** 'em. LOL. 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by The Wiz

[DapperCam]

56 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

I call shenanigans on your incomplete stats!

 

Mahomes (beneficiary):

DPI: 3 (t-30)

Def Holding: 16 (1) (4 more than #2)

Illegal Contact: 3 (t-9)

Roughing Passer: 3 (t-10)

 

Allen (beneficiary):

DPI: 8 (t-10)

Def Holding: 5 (t-21)

Illegal Contact: 1 (t-20)

Roughing Passer: 3 (t-10)

 

KC (against):

DPI: 15 (1) (3 more than #2)

Def Holding: 4 (t-28)

Illegal Contact: 1 (t-19)

Roughing Passer: 3 (t-15)

 

BUF (against):

DPI: 8 (t-9)

Def Holding: 11 (t-2)

Illegal Contact: 1 (t-19)

Roughing Passer: 2 (t-21)

 

Totals:

Mahomes: 25

Allen: 17

KC: 23

BUF: 22

 

And honestly, calls against the defense have little to do with how much the refs are biased in favor of a particular passer. Mahomes is getting calls to keep drives alive. 25 to Josh's 17 last year.

KC constantly gets a defensive holding to their benefit to extend the drive.

 

Curiously it always seems to be on 3rd or 4th down. An unusual number of Mahomes interceptions seem to come back on a flag as well. Even if you aren’t into conspiracies, that dude has a horseshoe up his rear.

 

And of course there was the defensive holding that gave KC the Super Bowl last season. It all felt so familiar.

Edited October 28, 2023 by DapperCam

[The Wiz]

5 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

KC constantly gets a defensive holding to their benefit to extend the drive.

 

Curiously it always seems to be on 3rd or 4th down. An unusual number of Mahomes interceptions seem to come back on a flag as well. Even if you aren’t into conspiracies, that dude has a horseshoe up his rear.

Mahomes had 19 dropped interceptions last year and I can think of at least 4 INTs that were reversed because of defensive holding this year alone.

 

I think he's got a whole horse up there, not just the shoe.

[WideNine]

Folks keep rushing to judgement after each game and blowing with the wind. He's great and can do no wrong, or he is not salvageable.

 

It is a journey folks. There are a lot of things Allen does well, and defenses are trying their best to take those things away. When one team has success against Allen, the next team copies that blueprint.

 

Allen has had to reinvent himself to attack defenses in new ways and that is not always going to look pretty.

 

The good thing is the more ways Allen learns to attack defenses, the more they will have to take chances leaving guys open or in cover-0 and Allen will get better at recognizing those opportunities and making them pay for them.

 

Each game is a journey not the destination.

 

 

[Dr.Sack]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

Mahomes won MVP last year and the Chiefs received the fewest pass interference calls in the entire league with 3 while being penalized for it the most times with 15.  

DPI + H + RTP = MVP

[Warcodered]

38 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

That's because he's a hell of an actor.

 

Must be getting lessons from hailee.

 

Notice how often when the defender hit him up high he snaps his head back to try to bait the call.  I personally don't care for the embellishing but I like winning more so ***** 'em. LOL. 

 

 

Yeah Josh does do that, but the only one of those I can say is from this season is the Patriots one at the start, and sure he definitely sold it. But the defender made a dumb decision hitting Josh up high like that late, that's going to bite you on the ass.

[Billl]

24 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

DPI + H + RTP = MVP

14 INTs + 13 Fumbles + 0 postseason wins = Not MVP

[1ManRaid]

49 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

KC constantly gets a defensive holding to their benefit to extend the drive.

 

Curiously it always seems to be on 3rd or 4th down. An unusual number of Mahomes interceptions seem to come back on a flag as well. Even if you aren’t into conspiracies, that dude has a horseshoe up his rear.

 

And of course there was the defensive holding that gave KC the Super Bowl last season. It all felt so familiar.

 

42 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Mahomes had 19 dropped interceptions last year and I can think of at least 4 INTs that were reversed because of defensive holding this year alone.

 

I think he's got a whole horse up there, not just the shoe.

 

Curiously, at least last year, Mahomes rarely ever pulled a DPI it was all (a league leading amount of) holdings and illegal contacts.  Aside from 6 inch shovel passes basically being impossible to interfere with, DPI is a high profile and visible penalty that will get scrutinized (see our Giants and Bucs finishes).  Defensive holding/IC by definition happens away from the play and can be thrown as a bailout on basically any play without much scrutiny.  Weird how KC is considered to have a weak WR corps, but they just apparently keep burning defenders so bad they keep holding...

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

That's because he's a hell of an actor.

 

Must be getting lessons from hailee.

 

Notice how often when the defender hit him up high he snaps his head back to try to bait the call.  I personally don't care for the embellishing but I like winning more so ***** 'em. LOL. 

 

 

He's literally been doing it for 6 years and has nothing to do with his new girlfriend

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

He's literally been doing it for 6 years and has nothing to do with his new girlfriend

[1ManRaid]

29 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah Josh does do that, but the only one of those I can say is from this season is the Patriots one at the start, and sure he definitely sold it. But the defender made a dumb decision hitting Josh up high like that late, that's going to bite you on the ass.

 

Yeah I don't get how people don't understand going for high hits late is a gamble.  These guys are getting greedy and going for the high strip, where it turns into feast or famine of pass deflection/fumble if it connects vs smart QB snapping their head back and getting a free penalty if they miss.  Josh is so good at powering out of sacks that guys are going after the ball instead, and ANY QB with 2 brain cells to rub together would embellish a little when defenders get sloppy with throwing hands up in their faces.

[78thealltimegreat]

31 minutes ago, Billl said:

14 INTs + 13 Fumbles + 0 postseason wins = Not MVP

He doesn’t have any of those numbers so I guess that means he has a shot thanks for the heads up man 👍

[julian]

2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

That's because he's a hell of an actor.

 

Must be getting lessons from hailee.

 

Notice how often when the defender hit him up high he snaps his head back to try to bait the call.  I personally don't care for the embellishing but I like winning more so ***** 'em. LOL. 

 

 

I’m guessing every QB could have a 55 second reel of embellishment, at least the smart ones could lol

[BruceVilanch]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

It’s all because of the smoking man, he dislikes the Bills and has connections in high places…, 

The truth is out there

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

That's because he's a hell of an actor.

 

Must be getting lessons from hailee.

 

Notice how often when the defender hit him up high he snaps his head back to try to bait the call.  I personally don't care for the embellishing but I like winning more so ***** 'em. LOL. 

 

 

Only Fans that is just Josh Allen flopping?

[BananaB]

4 hours ago, The Wiz said:

That's because he's a hell of an actor.

 

Must be getting lessons from hailee.

 

Notice how often when the defender hit him up high he snaps his head back to try to bait the call.  I personally don't care for the embellishing but I like winning more so ***** 'em. LOL. 

 

 

Getting really sick of seeing the flops. Have said it before. Allen does it a lot but it’s pretty routine around the league. Honestly believe they should start giving an embellishment penalty then players will stop with the *****. 

[BillsUberAlles]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Getting really sick of seeing the flops. Have said it before. Allen does it a lot but it’s pretty routine around the league. Honestly believe they should start giving an embellishment penalty then players will stop with the *****. 

 

They do it in all sports...

Soccer is the worst by a mile.

 

Hockey, some guys go down from being "hooked" even when the player barely touches them(they can get penalties for embellishing tho).

 

Basketball with players taking a charge, pretending to get hit on the way up, etc

 

Baseball might be the only one that doesn't really do it much mainly because there aren't many opportunities.

 

 

[The Jokeman]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

I don’t see him getting mvp with this coaching staff. I believe he’s hit his ceiling and will need new coaches to improve.  His flops are frustrating and reminds me of soccer. Refs need to start calling Josh for those, so he stops. 

If he can cut down his interceptions he'd be more in the discussion as sadly most voters aren't watching games but just focused on stats. That said if Josh continues to lead the league in completion percentage TDs and we're amongst the top4 teams in the league at the end of the season he has a good chance winning this season.

[WideNine]

6 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah Josh does do that, but the only one of those I can say is from this season is the Patriots one at the start, and sure he definitely sold it. But the defender made a dumb decision hitting Josh up high like that late, that's going to bite you on the ass.

 

I felt like they were going out of their way to put hits on Allen well after he released the ball...often taking a few steps to get there too.

 

Nothing wrong with Allen playing one of those up to get some yards.