Memo to Beane, Dorsey - What the Bills need to do to perfect the offense. (With Poll)

[Einstein's Dog]

3 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

 McClappy thinks MIA O is “revolutionary” and “creative”.  First step is admitting you have a problem…

Are you really that oblivious to coachspeak? 

 

And it seems McD is using the terms "revolutionary" and "creative" to suggest "gimmicky".  Kind of suggests like he is pretty confident he has the answers.

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, ngbills said:

1st and 10 - 1 yd pass to Kincaid

2nd and 9 - 1 yd pass to Kincaid

3rd and 8 - 1 yd pass to Kincaid

4th and 7 - punt

1st and 10 -10 yard pass to Kincaid

1st and 10 -10 yard pass to Kincaid

1st and 10 -10 yard pass to Kincaid

1st and 10 -10 yard pass to Kincaid

 etc

 

[Since1981]

9 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

And it seems McD is using the terms "revolutionary" and "creative" to suggest "gimmicky".  Kind of suggests like he is pretty confident he has the answers.

We will see. Bills almost lost to MIA QB2 last yrs playoff at home. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Replace Dorsey should have been a choice... that's the issue. Someone needs to be there who is creative, can get the running game going and keep Josh from running himself into the ground.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

2 hours ago, TH3 said:

#2 scoring offense last year ….just scored 38 and 37 points…..FFS

 

They scored them against the Raiders and the Commanders. Not the Cowboys, the 49ers, the Cheatriots or the Jaguars.

 

We're trying to win a Super Bowl, not beat up on bad to average teams in the regular season. We cannot accomplish our goals if this team cannot perform well on offense against PLAYOFF CALIBER teams, period.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

1) Lose the Zone run scheme

 

2) Fix spacing in routes downfield

 

3) can we get a successful screen?

 

4) stay ahead of the chains (we’ve been terrible on 1st down)

 

5) demonstrate we have the ability to scheme guys into space and let them do the leg work

[RiotAct]

55 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

We will see. Bills almost lost to MIA QB2 last yrs playoff at home. 

QB3 actually (Bridgewater also couldn’t go that game)

[julian]

1 hour ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

They scored them against the Raiders and the Commanders. Not the Cowboys, the 49ers, the Cheatriots or the Jaguars.

 

We're trying to win a Super Bowl, not beat up on bad to average teams in the regular season. We cannot accomplish our goals if this team cannot perform well on offense against PLAYOFF CALIBER teams, period.

If we haven’t played quality enough opponents yet then how do you know they can’t perform against PLAYOFF CALIBER teams

 

I selected other, getting Kincaid going would be my option.

[MiltonWaddams]

Spacing. The repeated clumping of the receivers is creating issues on many levels. It’s a lot harder to get decent yac when there are 3 or 4 db’s within 5 yards when you catch the ball. You can’t re-create the Fins offense because the speed is off the charts, but you can see how they get those huge plays repeatedly when their receivers are spaced out all over the field.

[RenoNVBillsfan]

10 hours ago, gobills404 said:

I think a team that runs 12p as it’s base offense should figure out how to actually get some meaningful production from their TEs. Knox and Kincaid are on pace for less than 700 yards COMBINED. It’s pathetic.

No question the TEs need to be a focal point in the offense but know that Kincaid is on pace for 62 receptions for the season, which would be the 5th highest reception total by a rookie TE in NFL history. This even with DK having on 2 receptions last game. How much more can you ask for what he’s contributed so far?

 

[LeGOATski]

Improved play calling is the simplest solution.

[Dr.Sack]

I think the Bills need to let Josh call his own plays and run a more uptempo no huddle offense. The Bills seem to be a high football IQ team, time to challenge defenses by not allowing them to rotate in fresh personnel. 

[RobbRiddick]

Very negative comments in this thread. We haven't even been destroyed by the Phins yet. Just imagine the comments on Sunday night 

[Billsfan1972]

#Free Allen....  It was efficient and worked vs. an inferior opponent in LV, but red zone was bad.  Washington was just okay, but really 16-0 going into the 4th and the Bills had 4 TO's and Washington gave it up on downs at the 2 yard line.....  Running game stats padded by the last TD drive when the game was over.

 

We have at worst the second best QB in the league and still don't know what to do with him.

 

As someone else said, Jalen Hurts and the Eagles short yard sneaks/push should be a no brainer with Josh.  How hard is that play to draw up and execute?

 

  

[Airseven]

Since Daboll left, it appears there is no perfecting this offense. I guess that means play design is my biggest issue. And it’s only aggravated by poor tackles, poor WRs, and Allen’s decision making.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Since Daboll left, it appears there is no perfecting this offense. I guess that means play design is my biggest issue. And it’s only aggravated by poor tackles, poor WRs, and Allen’s decision making.

People are going way overboard with the Daboll stuff. This is coming from someone who daily had to defend Daboll on these boards.

 

Right now all problems with the offense is the lack of a consistent second WR option. Nothing more than that.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

8 hours ago, julian said:

If we haven’t played quality enough opponents yet then how do you know they can’t perform against PLAYOFF CALIBER teams

 

I selected other, getting Kincaid going would be my option.

 

With Daboll, our offense was hitting its stride and scoring a lot of points in the playoffs.

 

With Dorsey, our offense lost its mojo in the playoffs and Josh running the ball has been the plan of choice instead of committing to running the ball with our backs.

 

McD has done a lot to improve our defense, but we will find out on Sunday if it is legit or not. Dorsey must eliminate the inconsistency and continue to keep Josh from doing the Bills in and getting him badly hurt.

[BuffaninSarasota]

17 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

This offense sucks, its not fixable

Ok, duly noted, thank you

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I feel I learned a lesson when Detroit had a chance to draft Ja’Marr Chase or draft Penei Sewell.

 

There just aren’t many true difference makers at WR. 
 

Upgrade Gabe. 

[Matt_In_NH]

12 minutes ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

Ok, duly noted, thank you

NP, include that in the Memo to Beane and Dorsey.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Matt_In_NH

[Fan in Chicago]

I was torn between WR2 and RT but as I had to make a single choice, I selected the first option. If JA had a reliable second WR option, the impact of a poorer RT is lower.

 

 

There will be differing opinions on this of course because I can see the reverse - if he had better protection, it allows another player to not help in blocking and be available as a receiving option. 

[BuffaninSarasota]

Just now, Matt_In_NH said:

NP, include that in the Memo to Beane and McDermott.

I'm sure Beane & McDermott are anxiously awaiting our memo.

[Behindenemylines]

10 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Replace Dorsey should have been a choice... that's the issue. Someone needs to be there who is creative, can get the running game going and keep Josh from running himself into the ground.

My hope is that Dorsey has been only opening the playbook as much as needed last few weeks.  He is holding back plays and schemes to use during this game based on how it’s going.  I expect much more Kincaid and Knox as well as seeing Cook close to 150 yards.  
 

Gamesmanship at play here is my thought.  Miami will the difference in home field or not for us potentially. 

[gobills404]

7 hours ago, RenoNVBillsfan said:

No question the TEs need to be a focal point in the offense but know that Kincaid is on pace for 62 receptions for the season, which would be the 5th highest reception total by a rookie TE in NFL history. This even with DK having on 2 receptions last game. How much more can you ask for what he’s contributed so far?

 

I’m not blaming Kincaid for it, but his average depth of target is 3.4 yards downfield. I’d like to see that increase a lot.

[Matt_In_NH]

2 minutes ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

I'm sure Beane & McDermott are anxiously awaiting our memo.

They will learn a lot from it, no question...hopefully this happens before Sunday

[BuffaninSarasota]

Just now, Matt_In_NH said:

They will learn a lot from it, no question...hopefully this happens before Sunday

There may be some things Dorsey has kept under wraps for games like this Sunday's. We can only hope the Bills' offensive identity & performance evolves & improves over the course of this season.

[Mr. WEO]

I'm here for the super fresh Brown And Gabe takes.

 

 

[Eastport bills]

The 12P formation is actually being more productive in the run game. Why can’t Dorsey find a way to get Kincaid the ball? The problem is he’s not very innovative. Josh is still able to pull rabbits out of his rear end on these off schedule plays but like last year, we can’t present an offense that incorporates receptions by multiple receivers or little screens that are open. This offense is going to be dependent on execution by our O-line in the run game and getting Kincaid, Sherfield or Hardy(Shakir) involved. After 3 games, why has Kincaid not been targeted in the red zone? Why does Sherfield get his 2 receptions in the 3rd game? Hardy was brought in as a vertical threat, how many downfield targets has he gotten? If this season starts looking like the predictable Diggscentric pass offense, like last season, eventually teams will take him away. I’ll give Dorsey the benefit of adjusting to new personnel as an excuse for not being very innovative like Miami or KC. This would be a good time to start being unpredictable.

 

[Eastport bills]

17 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Fire Dorsey. The offense is so predictable it's a joke. The other team knows Gabe Davis runs 2 routes, they know Harty is running a reverse, they are now learning Kincaid only catches 3 yard passes. That stupid draw play to Cook where Josh runs to the side to hand him the ball is like wtf. If I'm a LB as soon as he does that I'm crashing on the RB because they never fake it out of that look.

 

I dream of having a good OC but it might be too late. Josh already has his bad habits and they are of the mindset that they will take the good with the bad so let's have an OC that let's him play outside of structure and do whatever he wants. The top OC's would never give up that kind of control.

Sadly, you’re absolutely right. The reason it won’t be changed is because this QB can find a way despite poor play calling and will this team to wins. He needs to be in the 30s this week and hope our defense shows up.

[KDIGGZ]

7 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

Sadly, you’re absolutely right. The reason it won’t be changed is because this QB can find a way despite poor play calling and will this team to wins. He needs to be in the 30s this week and hope our defense shows up.

Yep and these posters don't want to admit it. Just because Josh is able to turn nothing into something doesn't mean the offense is clicking. All of our big plays come from Josh scrambling and making something happen. That's not the way to consistently win in this league. The OC is calling a trash game and Josh is covering up his inadequacies.

[Dopey]

Find a perfect offense and I can find flaws. Find a perfect defense and I can find flaws. News flash: there is no perfect offense or defense in the league. The league is built on parity. I hope some of you aren’t pissed the offense isn’t perfect, but like last season we’re 2nd in the entire league in points per game. Even after Josh blew chunks vs the Jets. 

To Beane and Dorsey, 

You’re doing fine not listening to the noise here. Keep up the great work!

[Straight Hucklebuck]

46 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

The 12P formation is actually being more productive in the run game. Why can’t Dorsey find a way to get Kincaid the ball? The problem is he’s not very innovative. Josh is still able to pull rabbits out of his rear end on these off schedule plays but like last year, we can’t present an offense that incorporates receptions by multiple receivers or little screens that are open. This offense is going to be dependent on execution by our O-line in the run game and getting Kincaid, Sherfield or Hardy(Shakir) involved. After 3 games, why has Kincaid not been targeted in the red zone? Why does Sherfield get his 2 receptions in the 3rd game? Hardy was brought in as a vertical threat, how many downfield targets has he gotten? If this season starts looking like the predictable Diggscentric pass offense, like last season, eventually teams will take him away. I’ll give Dorsey the benefit of adjusting to new personnel as an excuse for not being very innovative like Miami or KC. This would be a good time to start being unpredictable.

 

Great post, I agree with all of it.

 

The Bills offense is static. If you watched the Bengals offense against the Rams, it felt the same as what we do.

 

Limited use of motion, some basic play action, 3-wides, a basic run game.

 

Miami always utilizes the one player in motion, clean plays with multiple run fakes, players motioning across the formation that help block into toss sweeps, two running backs in the backfield (pony) formations, drawing the defenders with the fake handoff, and then actually handing off in the same direction as the fake coming from a player moving in the same direction. The play with Hill where he motions across the formation left to right, Tua fakes the hand off to the left at snap, then runs across the formation in the same direction as Hill for an easy 13 yards. I rewatched that play 3 times to note the precision and creativity. 
 

You’re right, Dorsey is not creative. 
 

That’s partially why a lot of people bang the get better skill than Gabe drum or why there was a WR train at draft time.
 

The hope that improved talent overcomes the basic offense we run and makes us less reliant on Diggs.

 

You’re 100% right to point out that we’re drifting to 2022 in the pass game, the only difference is Cooks speed and improved interior line play gives the Bills a possible change up in the run game. 
 

Still, against the Jets the run game was not efficient, and Harris/Murray were not utilized much. 

 

Last year Nyheim Hines was a red flag. The fact that the coaches could not figure out what to do with him was alarming to me. 
 

I’m not surprised Harty is McKenzie all over again (catching bubbles at or behind the LOS), or that the desired role for Kincaid is to be the drop-in replacement for Cole Beasley. And so his yards/catch won’t be any higher than 10. He has the same role. 

 

The entire philosophy of this team, from Beane’s approach to roster building/retainment, to McDermott now coaching the defense is to keep as much the same from 2020-2022 together as possible. 
 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Dopey]

4 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Yep and these posters don't want to admit it. Just because Josh is able to turn nothing into something doesn't mean the offense is clicking. All of our big plays come from Josh scrambling and making something happen. That's not the way to consistently win in this league. The OC is calling a trash game and Josh is covering up his inadequacies.

Not true. Complainer talk. 

[Eastport bills]

9 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Yep and these posters don't want to admit it. Just because Josh is able to turn nothing into something doesn't mean the offense is clicking. All of our big plays come from Josh scrambling and making something happen. That's not the way to consistently win in this league. The OC is calling a trash game and Josh is covering up his inadequacies.

First, winning sanitizes a lot of weaknesses in the system. Also the Andy Reid’s, Mike McDaniels and Kyle Shanahans are few and far between in the NFL. Face it, this guy is playing checkers and the coaching hierarchy plays chess. It doesn’t mean our personnel can’t overcome predictability. Our defense will have a lot to say about results and Sean seems to be getting more out of that unit than in previous seasons.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

13 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Yep and these posters don't want to admit it. Just because Josh is able to turn nothing into something doesn't mean the offense is clicking. All of our big plays come from Josh scrambling and making something happen. That's not the way to consistently win in this league. The OC is calling a trash game and Josh is covering up his inadequacies.

Probably not a coincidence that the two best offenses in the league are the 49ers and Dolphins. 
 

Todd Monkin in Baltimore will be an interesting case study in a modern passing game coming to an offense that had become stale (Roman). 

[aristocrat]

The lions and packers are getting their rookie tight ends the ball the first few weeks. Bills and raiders are not. We need him involved more. He should be a huge mismatch and should be getting 6 or more targets a game. 

[Eastport bills]

14 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Great post, I agree with all of it.

 

The Bills offense is static. If you watched the Bengals offense against the Rams, it felt the same as what we do.

 

Limited use of motion, some basic play action, 3-wides, a basic run game.

 

Miami always utilizes the one player in motion, clean plays with multiple run fakes, players motioning across the formation that help block into toss sweeps, two running backs in the backfield (pony) formations, drawing the defenders with the fake handoff, and then actually handing off in the same direction as the fake coming from a player moving in the same direction. 
 

You’re right, Dorsey is not creative. 
 

That’s partially why a lot of people bang the get better skill than Gabe drum or why there was a WR train at draft time.
 

The hope that improved talent overcomes the basic offense we run and makes us less reliant on Diggs.

 

You’re 100% right to point out that we’re drifting to 2022 in the pass game, the only difference is Cooks speed and improved interior line play gives the Bills a possible change up in the run game. 
 

Still, against the Jets the run game was not efficient, and Harris/Murray were not utilized much. 

 

Last year Nyheim Hines was a red flag. The fact that the coaches could not figure out what to do with him was alarming to me. 
 

I’m not surprised Harty is McKenzie all over again (catching bubbles at or behind the LOS), or that the desired role for Kincaid is to be the drop-in replacement for Cole Beasley. And so his yards/catch won’t be any higher than 10. He has the same role. 

 

The entire philosophy of this team, from Beane’s approach to roster building/retainment, to McDermott now coaching the defense is to keep as much the same from 2020-2022 together as possible. 
 

 

Pretty impressive post. Your analysis is so obvious the only reason some fans won’t accept it is because it makes advancing past previous seasons results reliant on our personnel overachieving at an unrealistic level.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, Eastport bills said:

Pretty impressive post. Your analysis is so obvious the only reason some fans won’t accept it is because it makes advancing past previous seasons results reliant on our personnel overachieving at an unrealistic level.

The play with Hill where he motions across the formation left to right, Tua fakes the hand off to the left at snap, then runs across the formation in the same direction as Hill for an easy 13 yards. I rewatched that play 3 times to note the precision and creativity. So much space. 

 

For us, it catches your eye if Shakir motions in the backfield once (had one play like that against the Jets), or we get a standard reverse, or jet sweep. 

 

You see this roster stiffness in Elam having no role but to sit on the bench, Knox and Kincaid not doing anything across the middle of the field, and really with the Bills pursuit of the Hines/Harty/McKenzie role. Even with Cook, pretty quickly, the idea to have him catch the ball faded away early in 2022. 

 

Like I referenced, the Bengals are not a motion offense is either, it's a rhythm passing game. So getting a WR more instinctive, and nimble that Gabe, could help open up the offense. As KDIGGZ has mentioned, Allen's mobility behind this line gives the opportunity for unplanned throwing lanes. Gabe is just a stiff with little change of direction. 

 

 

[BillsFanSD]

We're 2-1.  We lost our first game because our QB went rogue.  We blew out our next two opponents.  

 

Why do people think our offense sucks and is in need of fixing?

[colin]

it's pretty clearly red zone offense IMO, out of the list.

 

no rushing josh on 4th and 1 is a bit of a sin IMO, he's too good at it to stop without getting stopped.

 

also, if i was adding an item to the list, it would be 1st down offense.  we are awful on 1st this season.  i've gotta think a small change in that gives us big returns.