Josh has lost confidence… reasons why.

[MAJBobby]

4 hours ago, motorj said:

Keep an extra blocker in there like Knox, because the OL is still letting him down

Now the facts.

 

Josh Allen was pressured on 26% of drop backs (10th Lowest of any QB week 1) - GOOD JOB OL

 

Now despite that took 9 Hits (3rd most) 5 sacks (5th most) and sacked on 11% of Drops (5th most)

 

Translation it WASNT THE OL.  IT WAS 17.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

I thought he was humbled in the Cincy game. He said all the right things afterwards. He promised to be committed to the game in the offseason. Then did this in his first game against a team that lost its savior and was waiting to be finished off. How much more humbling does he need?

I dont know, it is concerning.

[UKBillFan]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

I thought he was humbled in the Cincy game. He said all the right things afterwards. He promised to be committed to the game in the offseason. Then did this in his first game against a team that lost its savior and was waiting to be finished off. How much more humbling does he need?

 

My only hope is, against the Bengals, it was a case of everyone running out of steam so there was mitigation for the humbling. Maybe he said the right words, but felt it was something a summer away from football would actually solve.

 

No excuse for yesterday, so can only hope it does act as an actual wake up call. My greatest concern is it will make him second guess himself even more.

It's a shame Rodgers is in the division and Brady used to play in division as I could otherwise see them being happy to try and help him. But why would they do so when it would potentially be to the detriment of the Jets and Pats?

[Cache]

Josh just flat aims for the fences most every time. With that, he will occasionally hit some homers, and they simply become intoxicating for him. When he does actually hit a single, he attempts to stretch it into a double, or a clear double trying to become a triple, and gets thrown out a  lot because of it. Okay enough of the baseball analogies.... Football is a game of inches and requires discipline and patience. I know he wants to be everyone's friend/hero and really is a great guy and amazing talent.  But if it means Diggs gets fewer attempts in order to methodically move the chains, then so be it!  Some people find it hard to take what the defense gives them. I think last night just may have a big enough impact on him that he will learn from it and make adjustments.  I still believe this team will be fine this season.

[Nihilarian]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The line is better than last year.  They held up OK against a great D line last night overall.  Dorsey made some head scratching calls, but Josh had guys open and didn’t take the easy throw.  And I don’t think defenses have figured things out.

 

Last night Josh just sucked.  Too much hero ball.  He needs to take what’s there, and last night he didn’t.

This!

 

Plus, with Daboll who would yell at him for his mistakes, and the fact that I think he was afraid to lose his job if he threw too many INTs. Now he knows that won't happen as he has no real competition for his job. 

 

Take the underneath stuff and more throws to the backs and TEs. much much more misdirection to make those defensive players get gassed. Spread formation and hurry-up offense.

 

Dorsey looked clueless against that defense. 

 

 

[Einstein]

 

[SCBills]

All this talk about the OL... they weren't good.  They also weren't a disaster. 

 

They were passable enough to win that game, easily, against a Rodgers-less Jets team with an elite Defense.  

 

Jets might have the best DL in the NFL, certainly Top 3, and it's paired with good linebackers and an elite secondary.  The Chiefs actually invest in their OL and were struggling due to one guy... now multiply that and include sticky coverage on the back end.  Our OL did enough. 

[jethro_tull]

Josh should call the plays.  

[ColoradoBills]

I hate to admit that I don't know who is running the offense.  Is it Dorsey, Josh Allen or some weird combination of the 2.

Whoever it is has to realize that a good number of DCs have figured out how to neutralize the Bills O too often.

 

I'm sure that there is enough tape on the Bills that the technique of that neutralizing is becoming well known.

It seems to me that either Dorsey is not implementing a game plan that can work, or he is, and Josh and the O can't execute it,

or a combination of both (which sadly I'm beginning to think is the fact).

 

This happens all the time in the NFL.  It's a constant game of cat and mouse and if you do that, we'll adjust and do this.

I'm going to rewatch that horrible game and see if the Raiders are going to attempt to mimic the Jets.  If they do the Bills O better

know how to ADJUST.

 

 

 

[PayDaBill$]

Josh doesn’t like the game sped up and pressure. I’ve mentioned it twice when things get hectic & not going his way, offensive scheme not working, o line lapses he gets saucer-eyes.  When that occurs bad things happen. He loses his composure.

 

He needs to be more like Brady Mahomes etc those guys don’t get rattled.

[K-9]

I don’t think Josh has lost confidence when it’s his (over) confidence that results in the unnecessary hero ball tactics. 
 

My concern is, are his teammates going to start to lose confidence in him. 

[Georgia Bill]

2 hours ago, Dubie54 said:

I think it’s all psychological with him. The stage was too big for Josh last night and when that happens he panics, the game is too fast for him. 
 

Did you notice how Josh just sat there on the sidelines with the crazy eyes deer in head lights look? Not talking to the coaches, looking at a tablet, etc. He just seemed like he was out on an island and the pressure just continued to build as the game went on.

 

Tom Brady would always be looking at the tablet to review plays, talk with other players, talk to the coaches up in the booth, and was engaged in the game. No matter what the situation Brady always seemed to have that look of “just give me the ball and we’ll get this done.” Last night, Josh didn’t look like he wanted to be there. The eyes said it all.

 

I don’t know what’s happened to the kid but he’s regressed significantly and he appears to be totally out of sync with the game around him. 

Those on the bench glimpses of him have always concerned me.  Just sitting there, sulking, vacant stare when things aren't going well.  Never looking at a tablet to see what the defense is doing and figure out how to adjust.  Even when he hasn't made any big mistakes, I've never seen him looking at a tablet.  Josh Allen has shown a lot of greatness, and I love having him as a QB - but would like to see him figure out how to really learn from mistakes and adjust his behavior, both on the field and on the sidelines.  In real time - during the game.

[Trust The Process]

Allen is psychologically broken from years of carrying this offense on his back

[BananaB]

I think he has lack of confidence in almost everyone around him besides Diggs, plus himself. Looked the same way at the end of last year as well. On top of that he got McD wanting him to play safe physically which put more emphasis on him playing smarter and relying on these guys he already lacks confidence in.  
 

Big part of the Jets D is that they can get the pressure they want without sending any extra guys. That’s trouble for any QB. It’s more trouble for the Bills because besides Diggs no one has stepped up and proven they can be consistently relied on. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by BananaB

[Trust The Process]

Allen obviously doesn't trust his offensive line, running game, Dorsey, and Beane. Yes Beane, for years for not building an above average offensive line or running game, and for handing the keys to the castle to a rookie OC. A rookie OC!!! A premiere talent like Allen should be surrounded by some of the best and the brightest OC's. A bright offensive mind will salivate to coach Allen, there would be a laundry list of top candidates. 

 

 

[corta765]

7 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I may be wrong but I don't remember hearing much about Josh heading back to Carson Palmer the last 2 off-seasons to fine tune himself and get some work on his flaws like he did early in his career 

 

He actually completed nearly 75% of his passes last night. Palmer helped with his throwing motion and becoming a better more fluid passer. That does not alter his bonehead decision making unfortunately lol

[SectionC3]

3 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

It's not just saying 'No', it's the way it's said as well. I'm pretty sure McDermott laid the law down to Josh after that ridiculous hurdle in the 2nd Quarter but, instead of getting him into line, it seemed to lead to a full meltdown. Daboll, for the most part, seemed to know how to get through to Josh though he still had awful games under him. Do the Bills have anyone on the coaching staff able to have the requisite impact?

I agree on the means of communication.  I doubt there’s anyone there to tell him to pound salt.  And that’s a problem. 

2 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

My only hope is, against the Bengals, it was a case of everyone running out of steam so there was mitigation for the humbling. Maybe he said the right words, but felt it was something a summer away from football would actually solve.

 

No excuse for yesterday, so can only hope it does act as an actual wake up call. My greatest concern is it will make him second guess himself even more.

It's a shame Rodgers is in the division and Brady used to play in division as I could otherwise see them being happy to try and help him. But why would they do so when it would potentially be to the detriment of the Jets and Pats?

All offseason I chalked up the Bengals to emotional exhaustion and some extraordinary events preceding the game.  I don’t want to overreact based on one game, and I won’t.  But I’m concerned that our QB is a benevolent, funny, kind, and yet reckless knucklehead who will never change his ways.  

[Milanos Milano]

This is the heart of the problem. Allen is like a tweaked out artist. Way too much “going with the flow” or “reacting in the moment”  . There is no plan, no precision, no rhythm. Maybe Allen will never be that type of QB, and will always be the one that improvises on the fly. But I’m not convinced that kind of QB can win in todays game. When you watch old Manning videos, everything was nearly timed, and smooth. It was a clean clinic. When I watch Allen, half the time it’s the exact opposite, just crazy randomness with an amusement park rollercoaster that brings the thrills but on dangerous tracks that haven’t been maintained. Sure it’s fun and enthralling, but it’s not reliable or even sustainable due to the increased risks. 

It’s increasingly noticeable the tougher the defenses we play against. The chaos approaches infinity. I think DCs are finally realizing that Allen doesn’t like being boxed in and coloring within the lines. They bait him, they dare him, and he just can’t help himself. Every time it works. I sometimes wonder if Allen hasn’t been diagnosed with ADHD or something, because I see zero focusing out there or even self control. Which is incredibly sad, because Allens talent is just off the charts, but his impulse control reminds you of an edgy teenager that hasn’t fully developed mentally. 

Is it even possible for Allen to become a surgeon on the field? It’s now year 6 and there is little signs of it. Is it coachable, or is Allen simply just incapable of learning? 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Araiza Curse

[Jauronimo]

Thats really interesting to me because my dad has a lot of blood in his stool.

[Goin Breakdown]

Or he'll be "cut for the very first time"

[UKBillFan]

19 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I agree on the means of communication.  I doubt there’s anyone there to tell him to pound salt.  And that’s a problem. 

All offseason I chalked up the Bengals to emotional exhaustion and some extraordinary events preceding the game.  I don’t want to overreact based on one game, and I won’t.  But I’m concerned that our QB is a benevolent, funny, kind, and yet reckless knucklehead who will never change his ways.  

 

The thing I'm hanging onto is he did. The 2021 post season through to the first half of week eight of 2022 he looked everything we thought he could be based on his physical talent. And then things started to slip though, Bengals aside, never to yesterday's extent.

 

ETA - Actually, even against the Bengals he wasn't as bad as yesterday. At least he protected the ball; was only one TO if I recall correctly.

Edited September 12, 2023 by UKBillFan

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

This is the heart of the problem. Allen is like a tweaked out artist. Way too much “going with the flow” or “reacting in the moment”  . There is no plan, no precision, no rhythm. Maybe Allen will never be that type of QB, and will always be the one that improvises on the fly. But I’m not convinced that kind of QB can win in todays game. When you watch old Manning videos, everything was nearly timed, and smooth. It was a clean clinic. When I watch Allen, half the time it’s the exact opposite, just crazy randomness with an amusement park rollercoaster that brings the thrills but on dangerous tracks that haven’t been maintained. Sure it’s fun and enthralling, but it’s not reliable or even sustainable due to the increased risks. 

It’s increasingly noticeable the tougher the defenses we play against. The chaos approaches infinity. I think DCs are finally realizing that Allen doesn’t like being boxed in and coloring within the lines. They bait him, they dare him, and he just can’t help himself. Every time it works. I sometimes wonder if Allen hasn’t been diagnosed with ADHD or something, because I see zero focusing out there or even self control. Which is incredibly sad, because Allens talent is just off the charts, but his impulse control reminds you of an edgy teenager that hasn’t fully developed mentally. 

Is it even possible for Allen to become a surgeon on the field? It’s now year 6 and there is little signs of it. Is it coachable, or is Allen simply just incapable of learning? 

 

This couldnt go in one of the many Allen threads?  You needed your own thread for this?  lol

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

This couldnt go in one of the many Allen threads?  You needed your own thread for this?  lol

I feel like it can be its own separate discussion focusing around Allens approach to the game. The other ones are focusing on other stuff. 

[Codyny13]

8 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The line is better than last year.  They held up OK against a great D line last night overall.  Dorsey made some head scratching calls, but Josh had guys open and didn’t take the easy throw.  And I don’t think defenses have figured things out.

 

Last night Josh just sucked.  Too much hero ball.  He needs to take what’s there, and last night he didn’t.

Agreed. I thought he stayed in the pocket strong instead of looking to bail. I sat in the 9th throw last night and had some good looks. I loved that he played the underneath stuff and seemingly took what the defense gave him…until he didn’t. He seems to just get bored and impatient and wants to hurry up and make a play. I’m not overreacting, he played a great defense, in what was the most raucous jets atmosphere I’ve ever been to in that stadium. It’s week 1, he needs to relax, and the coaches need to hammer that into his head. Worst part about missing Daboll was his ability to temper Allen. There was no need to take chances when you’re playing an offense that’s unequipped to be down by multiple scores. We handed them this game. Learn and move on.

[DieHardFan]

And IFS and BUTTS need to be CANDY and NUTS.

[TheBrownBear]

8 hours ago, Toledo Bill said:

A couple of years ago Josh would confidently stand in the picket and throw. Yes, he would still break out and run when needed but I remember sometimes thinking… wow, he had great protection.

I can only guess what has led to a now skittish, frustrated quarterback.

1. of course the offensive line seems to have regressed terribly.

2. Have defenses basically figured Josh (and our play calling out)?

3. Poor coaching

 

I am interested in opinions. Hopefully this is fixable.

 

 

I thought the offensive line was fine given the opponent. Defenses are throwing something at Josh such that he can't get through his progressions and make the right read.  This leads to him holding the ball and eventually bailing the pocket.  Go back and watch the 2020 tape against Saleh's SF defense.  Josh's mechanics and footwork were so much better then.  He drops back, makes quick reads, and rifles the ball to his receivers.  That guy is nowhere to be found now. 

[Milanos Milano]

My point is, can it even be changed at this point? It’s year 6 and Allen is still making really dumb plays on the field instead of just taking what the defense gives him. DCs are boxing him in and he doesn’t want to color within the lines. 

[BBFL]

8 hours ago, Slack_in_MA said:

He only loses confidence when he turns the ball over and over.

 

His problem is that patience is not his strong suit, and he has a lot of arm arrogance.

Perfectly said. 

[Trust The Process]

Allen is also not having fun. You can tell he lost his confidence. The past 3 games he's played with 3 or more turnovers. Allen is regressing and it needs to be fixed as soon as possible. In no particular order, here's what I believe needs to be done on the offensive side of the ball for now.

 

1. Fire Dorsey and replace him with a top tier offensive mind. A great QB like Allen needs to be surrounded by the best and the brightest OC's which Dorsey by light years isn't. Dorsey is almost always in Shotgun mode, hasn't adjusted, and has been figured out. Allen needs a OC he respects and is held accountable. Dorsey is Allen's buddy, Allen does what he pleases, Daboll on the other hand is someone who Allen respected, and someone who coached up Allen. Dorsey made our QB worse.

 

2. Bench Spencer Brown and replace him with Ryan Bates or trade for someone. I guarantee Allen doesn't trust Brown which is causing Allen to lose focus which translates into mistakes. Daryl Williams was a good RT, one who Allen trusted. If we can trade for a RT I would bench Morse and replace him with Ryan Bates instead. Bates is a good pass protector and a much better run blocker than Morse is.

 

3. Trade for Jonathan Taylor. Allen needs a back that he trusts, one that can take some of the pressure off of him, one that teams fear. James Cook strikes no fear in defenses. Cook should never be a starting RB, he's built like a slot reciever who plays RB, is not strong, and can't break a tackle for the life of him.  Beane severely botched the RB position and wasted valuable resources in the process. By trading for Taylor defenses will need to pick their poison, and will open it up for everyone else, and again make life easier for Allen. I'd offer the Colts Elam, Cook, and a 3rd round pick, and if need be a 2nd for Taylor which is a very fair offer.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Trust The Process

[BillsUberAlles]

I think it's the opposite. I think he is overconfident and feels he can do anything he wants out there at any time.

 

He doesn't just want to win the game 16-6 like we could have easily done if he would have played safe and just kept checking it down. The Jets were no real threat on offense.

 

He wants to win by 20 or 30. Every game. That's a problem. They have blown teams out too many times and it's fun...it's an adrenaline rush. He wants that adrenaline rush back and wants to have it every game now.

 

He needs to be happy to win some games 16-6 like yesterday would have been if he just played smarter and less "I am HIM".

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by BillsUberAlles

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

My only hope is, against the Bengals, it was a case of everyone running out of steam so there was mitigation for the humbling. Maybe he said the right words, but felt it was something a summer away from football would actually solve.

 

No excuse for yesterday, so can only hope it does act as an actual wake up call. My greatest concern is it will make him second guess himself even more.

It's a shame Rodgers is in the division and Brady used to play in division as I could otherwise see them being happy to try and help him. But why would they do so when it would potentially be to the detriment of the Jets and Pats?

When he made his ‘more focus than ever’ comments after the Cincy game I thought it sounded hollow. But after such a tough season last year the team deserved an offseason to reset so I was holding out hope that he’d follow through with his words. Then all offseason we didn’t hear any reports of him working on anything football related. And after this first game I’ve come to see that there’s validity in criticisms of him not doing the extra work to get better.

 

As for seeking Brady’s advice I’ve read that Mahomes and Burrow do that. I don’t how much Brady shares but it shows that those two guys are trying to pick the goat’s brain at least. 

[Jerome007]

So many factors but overall, Josh had a bad game, a real bad game. It happens. Yes, last year he had lots of turnovers, and again this first game, so it is worrisome. But hero ball Josh is part of his make up. Mostly for good, sometimes for bad. He needs to channel this better but it will never go away. Hopefully, this game wakes him up just a bit. I mean, Wilson was bad, only threw super short passes and looked like a rookie, not a first rounder in year 3 that played already. Yet he had only one INT and the Jets won. TEAM game, even if Josh is a magical player at times.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Jerome007

[Jauronimo]

 

[Milanos Milano]

38 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Or he'll be "cut for the very first time"

Allen has those crazy eyes like weird Al. We need surgeon Josh, not Cokey the clown. 

[transplantbillsfan]

Honestly, I think Dorsey's playcalling is what's hurting Josh.  A lot of weird calls putting us in bad down and distance situations and suddenly Josh feels like he has to be the hero.  I think against most Defenses he could be just that.  But the Jets D is clearly pretty awesome.  

 

I really would have liked to see more intermediate throws with Kincaid in the middle of the field in our game plan.

 

And what happened to traditional play action with Josh under center?  He's always thrived under that and utilizing more of those run plays under center would probably help Cook, too.

 

The whole "Josh is broken" narrative is beyond ridiculous, but this team needs to get things right, and Josh and Dorsey are at the center of it.

[78thealltimegreat]

What’s amazing is till his second int which was unforgivable he had 4 incompletions against the Jets D who will do that to many QBs. 
He is an incredible QB but he has something mechanically in his head to take risks when he doesn’t have to. 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Trust The Process said:

Allen is also not having fun. You can tell he lost his confidence. The past 3 games he's played with 3 or more turnovers. Allen is regressing and it needs to be fixed as soon as possible. In no particular order, here's what I believe needs to be done on the offensive side of the ball for now.

 

1. Fire Dorsey and replace him with a top tier offensive mind. A great QB like Allen needs to be surrounded by the best and the brightest OC's which Dorsey by light years isn't. Dorsey is almost always in Shotgun mode, hasn't adjusted, and has been figured out. Allen needs a OC he respects and is held accountable. Dorsey is Allen's buddy, Allen does what he pleases, Daboll on the other hand is someone who Allen respected, and someone who coached up Allen. Dorsey made our QB worse.

 

2. Bench Spencer Brown and replace him with Ryan Bates or trade for someone. I guarantee Allen doesn't trust Brown which is causing Allen to lose focus which translates into mistakes. Daryl Williams was a good RT, one who Allen trusted. If we can trade for a RT I would bench Morse and replace him with Ryan Bates instead. Bates is a good pass protector and a much better run blocker than Morse is.

 

3. Trade for Jonathan Taylor. Allen needs a back that he trusts, one that can take some of the pressure off of him, one that teams fear. James Cook strikes no fear in defenses. Cook should never be a starting RB, he's built like a slot reciever who plays RB, is not strong, and can't break a tackle for the life of him.  Beane severely botched the RB position and wasted valuable resources in the process. By trading for Taylor defenses will need to pick their poison, and will open it up for everyone else, and again make life easier for Allen. I'd offer the Colts Elam, Cook, and a 3rd round pick, and if need be a 2nd for Taylor which is a very fair offer.

 

 

First they can’t afford Allen.  Second having a different OC only works if Josh is going to actually listen and run the plays that are called.  Running plays OK; Dorsey should not be running Cook that much inside.  But pass plays Josh is presented options and he needs to make the read and get the ball out.  Which he did not do well last night.

[JaCrispy]

Josh has ADHD, gets bored, and loses focus when he has to efficiently matriculate the ball down the field…

 

Btw, this is a recipe for disaster if you want to win a Super Bowl…😉

[njbuff]

Two words.

 

Cole Beasley.

 

Beasley got old and it took Josh's confidence right with him.

 

[Jukester]

2 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

My point is, can it even be changed at this point? It’s year 6 and Allen is still making really dumb plays on the field instead of just taking what the defense gives him. DCs are boxing him in and he doesn’t want to color within the lines. 

I’m beginning to think he’ll never change. Lots of lip service, then same actions on the field. Quotes from him in April:

 

“I’ve never been as focused or locked in on football as I am right now. There’s a lot of times last year, just looking back at film, that I was careless with the football, careless with my body and at the end of the day, availability is the best ability. I know this sounds crazy but I’m getting older. I can’t continue to do this. Over the course of my career I’m going to have to learn to adapt and change.  I want to be the smartest quarterback with the football in my hands. I don’t want to put the ball in harm’s way because I know how detrimental that is for a team with those interceptions and the fumbles.”

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Jukester