Josh has lost confidence… reasons why.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

 

Yep. Agree.  There was one play can't remember if first or second half,,, he scrambled left and had all this open green field in front of him and the sidelines.  It was one time he could've run for the first down and gotten out of bounds,... but he stopped and threw downfield incomplete.  Punt.  Just very bizarre decision making. He was really rattled last night and didn't follow the plan.

Yep, that was the first half INT, it was a bad decision.

[PatsFanNH]

4 minutes ago, Dopey said:

I disagree with the team comment. The fact that we still almost won is due to the rest of the team. The guy who touches the ball on every offensive play gave the game away. Despite the team doing what it could to keep us in it. You are right though, it is over reaction day today. Thing is, I thought this board would be worse. Pretty even keeled. 

All QBs have nights like Allen did, yes even Brady. (Usually against Baltimore) That’s when you need your D come up with a big turnover, or WR make a catch he had no reason to be able to grab or just break up the play so it isn’t Intercepted.. Everyone saw Allen was off but no one elevated themselves to help him and the team out.  But more importantly they need have his back going forward, realize it was one night and kill it here on out. 

[34-78-83]

He just needs to not throw ridiculous interceptions. the rest of this is nonsense, especially the "no wonder Diggs has had it with this guy" which is 100% complete BS and irresponsible posting implying that its a thing.

[ddaryl]

Hollywood Josh.

 

His offseason was busy filming commercials and dating supermodels
 

 

I didn't like Dorsey's offense last year... it looks the same. Either Dorsey doesn't know how to draw up X's and O's that work to Josh's strengths or Josh doesn't have the ability to dissect a D quick enough to make those quick throwing decisions and waits for players to get open. Waiting for players to get open means Josh has to improvise a lot which is his strength. However the NFL knows this and will force Josh to play X and O football and spy him to take away the scambles

bottom line I see all the same issues from last year

[Governor]

ADHD and a struggle with meds.

[KDIGGZ]

The only thing he needs now is a sports psychologist. Or some Ritalin. And maybe some Adderall. The dude is a spaz.

 

I think a better OC can help reign him in and help him learn from his mistakes, but at the end of the day he's still an immature kid that doesn't "get it" and I think it's more mental than physical at this point.

It's the same old things...

1. Limit the mistakes

2. Take what the defense gives you

3. Play in structure

4. Take less hits

5. Learn from your mistakes

[ddaryl]

3 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Josh played like ass. I’m not denying this at all. But I’m sorry, Dorsey still has this offense playing like gaining yards is a chore. Where’s the rhythm? 

 

 

there has been no rhythm with the O. Saw it last year a bunch and its back early

[Dopey]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

All QBs have nights like Allen did, yes even Brady. (Usually against Baltimore) That’s when you need your D come up with a big turnover, or WR make a catch he had no reason to be able to grab or just break up the play so it isn’t Intercepted.. Everyone saw Allen was off but no one elevated themselves to help him and the team out.  But more importantly they need have his back going forward, realize it was one night and kill it here on out. 

Agree to disagree. He had players open and ready to make a play for him/ the team. They have his back and he'll be fine.

[Mango]

I’ve long said that I don’t think Josh sees the field really well. He is often late to throw, hits his receivers flat footed, and when he misses largely misses behind.
 

Josh’s velocity and athleticism covers a lot of that up. 
 

We almost never see Josh Allen hit the last step of his drop and release. Never. 
 

Pair that with his penchant for wanting the big play, and this is what you get. Josh’s style of play will always make it difficult on the OL. That doesn’t mean ours is good, but he always makes it hard. He always makes everything hard. 

[Big Blitz]

25 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

He IS a great talent but my God, did you see him sulking on the bench every time he made a mistake. Jesus Christ man, get up and rally your teammates. No wonder Diggs has had it with this guy, it's painful to watch. Allen gives it his all on the field but his body language is beyond pathetic. This guy is not a rookie anymore, get out of your head and move on man. Until that part of him is fixed, this team is going to wither all around him.

 

I can agree with this.  
 

The coaching can help.  No one there to chew him out sort of when he needs it. 
 

Nothing we need to see.  Just a simple “get your ***t together that play don’t matter.”

[All_Pro_Bills]

12 minutes ago, Dopey said:

The Jets do seem to have his number. 

Seems like it.  I think they also have the number of the Bills offense.  Its not the entire story and I'm not looking to take Allen off the hook for bad decisions.  But I think it all starts with the Jets defense, coaches and players, have no fear or respect for the Bills running game other than Allen's escaping the pocket.  If you want to slow down the pass rush and force the defense to bring the safeties out of playing 2 deep you need to have an effective run game.  When you need it.  I thought that was the idea of signing Harris and Murray.  Two bigger backs that play a physical game, break some tackles, and get the tough yards.   

Edited September 12, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[Hebert19]

No.  The answer is that he will never reach it because of mental errors. 

[Bangarang]

He’s apparently never been more focused and committed to the game though..

[MAJBobby]

He will NEVER reach his potential because he just refuses to let the game come to him. 

[Matt_In_NH]

7 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Josh played like ass. I’m not denying this at all. But I’m sorry, Dorsey still has this offense playing like gaining yards is a chore. Where’s the rhythm? 

My only beef with Dorsey is that he needs to stop being Allen's buddy and rip him a new one.

[Dillenger4]

Now that you are realizing Josh isn't all that and he can't read the field vs good defenses - let's also discuss the Tre White joke that it is. Two important missed/whiffed tackles: One clearly on the Breece long run. Tre missed him completely and Breece ran for the length of the field. Jets score a FG. Next one, third and long... Tre again whiffs on the tackle behind the line and Jets convert and get another FG. THEN - Tre 1-on-1 for the tieing TD. The dude is brutal! He is the weak link on a good D. Do your job Tre and we may have won.

 

Josh Allen: "Same ol shi$t, different day". wow. (Post game presser).

 

We need a CB. Benford was giving it his all. Tre is a weanie.

[buffalobillswin]

I think he needs a new voice coaching him. Similar to how McCvay was able to get Stafford to reach the next level.

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

I can agree with this.  
 

The coaching can help.  No one there to chew him out sort of when he needs it. 
 

Nothing we need to see.  Just a simple “get your ***t together that play don’t matter.”

Did you notice the shot where Coach pointed to his head and told Josh to “play smart”? It was early in the game. I’m not a huge McD fan but I’m not sure what more you want him to do. 

[UKBillFan]

4 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

The only thing he needs now is a sports psychologist. Or some Ritalin. And maybe some Adderall. The dude is a spaz.

 

I think a better OC can help reign him in and help him learn from his mistakes, but at the end of the day he's still an immature kid that doesn't "get it" and I think it's more mental than physical at this point.

It's the same old things...

1. Limit the mistakes

2. Take what the defense gives you

3. Play in structure

4. Take less hits

5. Learn from your mistakes

Point three - do the Bills have a structure in place which gets the best out of Josh?

[Mango]

I’ve been critical of Josh, but this one goes too far. 

[Roundybout]

3 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

My only beef with Dorsey is that he needs to stop being Allen's buddy and rip him a new one.

I 100% agree. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

See 2020. That was the ceiling 

Or at least the peak so far

[ddaryl]

Hollywood Josh is definitely not in the right headspace.

 

[zow2]

I don't even care anymore.  Let Josh be Josh.  Even when he tried to "limit his contact" last night...by his own plan...he absorbed many crunching blows.  The man just needs to scramble around, play loose, throw on the run and do his thing.  Guys will be open when he moves.  Yes, he will risk injury, but that's the NFL.  He should know what self-preservation needs to be done without being told.  He sucks in the pocket and against pressure like the Jets bring.  Just get the throwing deep into triple coverage out of his game.

Edited September 12, 2023 by zow2

[Hebert19]

He's not seeing field.  Plan and simple.  Look at his last 10 picks.  9 of them are because he didn't see a defender.  

 

No idea what happened.  

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

I’ve long said that I don’t think Josh sees the field really well. He is often late to throw, hits his receivers flat footed, and when he misses largely misses behind.
 

Josh’s velocity and athleticism covers a lot of that up. 
 

We almost never see Josh Allen hit the last step of his drop and release. Never. 
 

Pair that with his penchant for wanting the big play, and this is what you get. Josh’s style of play will always make it difficult on the OL. That doesn’t mean ours is good, but he always makes it hard. He always makes everything hard. 

This.  He has missed defenders in his throwing window over and over in last 10 games.  It's like defenses have realized stick a safety or LB in middle of field and he will eventually throw you one.  

[PayDaBill$]

Not a fan of Dorsey but he’s not the guy forcing the ball, making bad on field decisions and losing his composure.  Your QB is your field general.  I’ve seen nothing from JA in the leadership category and his on field decisions are most definitely suspect.

Edited September 12, 2023 by PayDaBill$

[Straight Hucklebuck]

29 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Because the playcalling sucks and he feels he has to use his physical talent to overcome it 

I think the problem is more low-end talent of the Bills pass catchers, and it's a mismatch in roster construction to how Allen wants to play (vertical) + gunslinger. 

 

The Bills pass catchers are all underneath route runners, and Allen has no discipline to stick with shorter gains. 

 

Harty is miniature without the Tyreek Hill speed, Kincaid looks like he runs a 4.72, Sherfield is a JAG, the Coaches can't stand Shakir. 

 

But the biggest problem is Gabe Davis. He's absolutely useless. Diggs can't cover up the talent gap. But the Bills are getting what they pay for. When your WR room is undrafted and low rounders, that's what they play like. 

[Wizard]

No, but he will not be able to reach that ceiling if he continues along making these kind of mistakes and mental errors. His offensive line, his OC, and a lack of film rool study don't help either.

[In Summary]

17 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The winning formula is boring compared to what Josh wants to do.   He says what he needs to do, he understands it but when in the game, he cannot control his impulses.

Yea. At least last night anyway. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

I don't believe he has. He still has room to get better.

 

The problem is he has no one on this staff that can help him do it. It may be time for an "outside voice" to come in...Josh needs to be taken out of his comfort zone and be challenged. I don't see Dorsey, Brady or even McDermott being "that guy".

[AuntieEm]

27 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Come on now. Let's relax. He had a terrible game, no doubt, but when given the chance at the end of the game, he did lead us to the game tying FG. I have been one of the most critical posters of Josh, but I think he will be fine. This smack to the face should be a wakeup call. 🤞  We have a TEAM around him that can help him win. Let them help. We don't need Super Josh. 

We don't need Super Josh no because there is no real superman.  Unfortunately think Josh has become addicted to the accolades he gets when he pulls wins out of losses.  I'd rather he become Clark Kent digging thru the tapes to uncover opponent tendencies to exploit by just being himself and not Super Josh.  And he should be using all his cc weapons equally and not try to force the plays to Diggs. Diggs will get his because he gets open and makes plays when targeted more often than not.  

[Yobogoya!]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

I don't even care anymore.  Let Josh be Josh.  Even when he tried to "limit his contact" last night...by his own plan...he absorbed many crunching blows.  The man just needs to scramble around, play loose, throw on the run and do his thing.  Guys will be open when he moves.  Yes, he will risk injury, but that's the NFL.  He should know what self-preservation needs to be done without being told.  He sucks out of the pocket and against pressure like the Jets bring.  Just get the throwing deep into triple coverage out of his game.

 

I'm kind of a noob but is it just me or do we never move the pocket for him? 

 

I feel like Josh could dominate on play action rollouts, especially if we set up a solid ground game for him. But through so many years we just never seen to do either one of those things... 

[PatsFanNH]

12 minutes ago, JMM said:

For YEARS now myself and many on this board have been saying the same things over and over. He needs to be more patient. He needs to stop the hero ball. He needs to manage the game better. He needs to run less. He needs to slide. Over and over.

 

The coaches from McDermott down have said the same things. Over and over.

 

Josh has said the same things himself! Over and over and over. Last night he said same sh$t, different day.

I'm just becoming very worried that this is him. That he will never make the necessary changes. 

 

Can we consistently win with the current Josh? Yes, no doubt. Can we win the SB or SB's with the current Josh? I very much doubt that. Would almost require dominant D and a lucky run.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but last night really has me thinking this.

 

 

First, Allen has not reached his ceiling. That said I think he needs a jerk coach. By that I mean one that after seeing him refusing to slide and throwing the 3rd pick sits his ass down and outs the back up in and tells him he is not the hole team and he to has to listen. In other words he needs a BB. This also helps the QB because then the HC is getting flamed in the media and by fans instead of him. Also may take him down a peg or two IF he is not listening.

[Mango]

I think I’ve lost confidence after this one.

 

Sure I’ve been critical. But in my head and in my heart it’s been with the intent of “if he can cut this crap out. Or do this thing better he would be unstoppable”

 

This was a clunker of clunkers.  I watched Burrow and Mahomes this week.  They aren’t my QB and they don’t play for my team. It’s different. 
 

One thing that’s triggering some worry here is after a game like this all the “well the staff is gripping to tight” or “You can’t make Josh play a game that isn’t natural to him” This is a lot of the stuff I said forever ago about JP Losman or EJ Manuel. In hindsight I was grasping at straws. To see that in full force now gives me a lot of pause. Almost as much as the game did. 

[C.Biscuit97]

35 minutes ago, Your Brown Eye said:

His commercial game is fire though 🔥

Several women (and some guys, let’s be honest) I know have commented how great his hair is. And isn’t that what’s most important???

[UKBillFan]

12 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

First, Allen has not reached his ceiling. That said I think he needs a jerk coach. By that I mean one that after seeing him refusing to slide and throwing the 3rd pick sits his ass down and outs the back up in and tells him he is not the hole team and he to has to listen. In other words he needs a BB. This also helps the QB because then the HC is getting flamed in the media and by fans instead of him. Also may take him down a peg or two IF he is not listening.

Rephrasing the question - will Josh ever reach his ceiling (again)?

[Drew21PA]

Felt like he was trying to do what he said he was going to do in not run as nuch

 

 

but I also felt that hurt him.  
 

idk I’m in the camp of let Allen be Allen - you want to run - GO FOR IT!

 

[Roundybout]

15 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think the problem is more low-end talent of the Bills pass catchers, and it's a mismatch in roster construction to how Allen wants to play (vertical) + gunslinger. 

 

The Bills pass catchers are all underneath route runners, and Allen has no discipline to stick with shorter gains. 

 

Harty is miniature without the Tyreek Hill speed, Kincaid looks like he runs a 4.72, Sherfield is a JAG, the Coaches can't stand Shakir. 

 

But the biggest problem is Gabe Davis. He's absolutely useless. Diggs can't cover up the talent gap. But the Bills are getting what they pay for. When your WR room is undrafted and low rounders, that's what they play like. 

Disagree on Kincaid as I thought he was a bright spot. 4 catches and great moxie. 

[Drew21PA]

15 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

First, Allen has not reached his ceiling. That said I think he needs a jerk coach. By that I mean one that after seeing him refusing to slide and throwing the 3rd pick sits his ass down and outs the back up in and tells him he is not the hole team and he to has to listen. In other words he needs a BB. This also helps the QB because then the HC is getting flamed in the media and by fans instead of him. Also may take him down a peg or two IF he is not listening.

I would like to see mcd scream at him for a change.  I know I would have been up his ass

[PatsFanNH]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

Rephrasing the question - will Josh ever reach his ceiling (again)?

If your coach has the courage to show him tough love.. yes he will. If he doesn’t? Probably not. Last night was the perfect time show him that tough love..