The 2023 - ??? Edmunds Report

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ya literally the bills biggest podcast host (Joe Marino), told us how good Edmunds was for the last 3 years.

 

I would say most bills media and maybe even half the board here , really liked edmunds 

 

 

Shill Capaccio might have been the worst offender.

 

That guy used to sing the praises of Edmunds and tell everyone they just didn't know what they were watching............and now he is pointing out how Edmunds lacked instincts and that's why he was so easily blocked and couldn't find the ball.    Calling Edmunds out for his hands now too.   Shill is the f#ckin' worst.    

 

 

[Special K]

This is an excerpt from the Yahoo sports power rankings referencing Edmunds vs. Bernard:

 

4. Buffalo Bills (2-1, LW: 5)

Here’s the difference between a good and bad franchise: The Bears signed LB Tremaine Edmunds to a four-year, $72 million deal. Edmunds was good for the Bills but not great. He plays an increasingly devalued position, but the Bears apparently wanted to appease their fans who speak wistfully about Dick Butkus, Mike Singletary and Brian Urlacher. Meanwhile, the Bills put second-year player Terrel Bernard in Edmunds’ old spot, and Bernard has been excellent. On Sunday, he became the first linebacker with two or more sacks, an interception and a fumble recovery in a game since (coincidentally) Urlacher in 2007. The Bears still have one of the worst defenses in the NFL.

 

[Brand J]

33 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Well I'm of a generation that saw previous generations that were èxtremeky hard working and didn't complain just got it done.  

 

 

No one can argue that Edmunds has the physical attributes that if combined with just a little better effort could have him be the best player in the league.  Anyone that wastes such gifts is generally either an idiot as some suggest  or lazy.  Either way he's making money he isn't earning I think he even is smart enough to know that which is why I think so  little if him.  You keep making excuses for  him, he's certainly used to making excuses in his own mind as well no doubt.

I do think the Edmunds family is a disciplined, hard working one. I read stories about how his mother, a former athlete, cracked the whip and had them working out at 5 in the morning. There was a lot of tough love as I understand it. I don’t think Edmunds is an idiot, or lazy, I just don’t think he has an absolute passion for the game. One who takes it personal if an offense pops a run against him, completes a pass in his zone, sells out and throws his body around to make stops wherever/however. He’s not that type of player. He doesn’t strive for legacy and a gold jacket. We’re all frustrated because we thought he could do so much more, but it is what it is. Everyone can’t be a superstar, even if they have the physical measureables to be one. 

[AuntieEm]

8 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I do think the Edmunds family is a disciplined, hard working one. I read stories about how his mother, a former athlete, cracked the whip and had them working out at 5 in the morning. There was a lot of tough love as I understand it. I don’t think Edmunds is an idiot, or lazy, I just don’t think he has an absolute passion for the game. One who takes it personal if an offense pops a run against him, completes a pass in his zone, sells out and throws his body around to make stops wherever/however. He’s not that type of player. He doesn’t strive for legacy and a gold jacket. We’re all frustrated because we thought he could do so much more, but it is what it is. Everyone can’t be a superstar, even if they have the physical measureables to be one. 

Yea I'm aware of his mom being the one in charge of training tre and his brothers.  So by cracking the whip and pushing them all to  Excell at football from a young a ge I'm even more certain Tremaine doesn't love football  it's just what he's supposed to do and he does the absolute minimum.  So it's not being lazy so much as having no interest in getting better.  

 

I remember we had a iirc linebacker here that was trained by his mother as well.  In that case though his mom actually played linebacker in a women's football league and she was a single mother as well not  some nfl wife that had some track background.  The linebacker as well was a better player than Tremaine is.  Not that that is a high bar to achieve.

Edited September 26, 2023 by AuntieEm

[TBBills Fan]

21 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I do think the Edmunds family is a disciplined, hard working one. I read stories about how his mother, a former athlete, cracked the whip and had them working out at 5 in the morning. There was a lot of tough love as I understand it. I don’t think Edmunds is an idiot, or lazy, I just don’t think he has an absolute passion for the game. One who takes it personal if an offense pops a run against him, completes a pass in his zone, sells out and throws his body around to make stops wherever/however. He’s not that type of player. He doesn’t strive for legacy and a gold jacket. We’re all frustrated because we thought he could do so much more, but it is what it is. Everyone can’t be a superstar, even if they have the physical measureables to be one. 

 

 

This makes sense.  To your point, it's easy to see why Edmunds thinks of playing football as a "job" because it's been treated like a job since he was 5.  Football could simply be a means to thrive due to the money it comes with. 

 

That passion he lacks is only usually found in those that love the game, competition 

Edited September 26, 2023 by TBBills Fan

[Brand J]

16 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Yea I'm aware of his mom being the one in charge of training tre and his brothers.  So by cracking the whip and pushing them all to  Excell at football from a young a ge I'm even more certain Tremaine doesn't love football  it's just what he's supposed to do and he does the absolute minimum.  So it's not being lazy so much as having no interest in getting better.  

 

I remember we had a iirc linebacker here that was trained by his mother as well.  In that case though his mom actually played linebacker in a women's football league and she was a single mother as well not  some nfl wife that had some track background.  The linebacker as well was a better player than Tremaine is.  Not that that is a high bar to achieve.

 

1 minute ago, TBBills Fan said:

 

 

This makes sense.  To your point, it's easy to see why Edmunds thinks of playing football as a "job" because it's been treated like a job since he was 5.  Football could simply be a means to thrive due to the money it comes with. 

Yeah, who knows if he ever even loved the game, or was just playing it because he was good and that’s what his parents expected (and of course there was money, lots of money at the end of the rainbow).
There are A LOT of players like that in the league, guys who have admitted they don’t love the sport. Whenever you get a player with Edmunds physical attributes and the passion, relentlessness, and eat/sleep football it requires to be an all time great, you get a hall of famer. Those guys are rare, while Edmunds is fortunate to be a pro bowl alternate.

[TBBills Fan]

8 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

 

Yeah, who knows if he ever even loved the game, or was just playing it because he was good and that’s what his parents expected (and of course there was money, lots of money at the end of the rainbow).
There are A LOT of players like that in the league, guys who have admitted they don’t love the sport. Whenever you get a player with Edmunds physical attributes and the passion, relentlessness, and eat/sleep football it requires to be an all time great, you get a hall of famer. Those guys are rare, while Edmunds is fortunate to be a pro bowl alternate.

Preach!  I agree 100%

[WotAGuy]

3 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

Well I'm of a generation that saw previous generations that were èxtremeky hard working and didn't complain just got it done.  

 

 

No one can argue that Edmunds has the physical attributes that if combined with just a little better effort could have him be the best player in the league.  Anyone that wastes such gifts is generally either an idiot as some suggest  or lazy.  Either way he's making money he isn't earning I think he even is smart enough to know that which is why I think so  little if him.  You keep making excuses for  him, he's certainly used to making excuses in his own mind as well no doubt.

Geezus. Do you have passion for your job?  Do you love it?  Would you accept an offer of 5 times your current pay to do your job, or would you turn it down because you “didn’t earn it”?  
 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by WotAGuy

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, AuntieEm said:

Thinking some people are confusing maturity with chronological age.  Edmunds is young and immature.  Immature in the sense that he believes all the hype he grew up hearing how much a stud player he is yadda yadda yadda... so in his mind he is worth the payday when he has no concept of value earned.  I'm sure he and his brothers were spoiled growing up with his father making nfl money  so I doubt any òf them had to do any real work.  Will he ever play to his potential?  Very doubtful because I see it as edmund is a spoiled entitled athlete and been that way for so long its ingrained in him too deeply.

I don’t think it was ever an issue of maturity.  He was regarded as the team leader of the defense pretty early in his career.  
 

I think people believed he was physically immature and had some room to develop, in the same way that a college athlete does from its freshman to junior/senior year.  I guess it made sense as a rookie but people were still using the age excuse in his fourth year which infuriated people who were frustrated with his performance (or lack there of)

[Scott7975]

On 9/25/2023 at 2:17 AM, Einstein said:

 

 

 

 

But but but he is just doing what the D coordinator asks him to. He gets no stats because no one throws his way.  Except when that receiver runs right past him and he just stands there of course.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Dang.

 

 

 

[Chaos]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Dang.

 

 

 

wow

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

All the physical gifts but no heart and no brain 

Must be the Cowardly Lion. 🤔

[DeltaDigital]

Just chiming in to say, god I love this thread and all contained within.

 

Kudos to all those who trusted what they SAW with their own eyes VS what some knucklehead on TV or the internet foisted upon you. 

 

The great Edmunds debate is over. He is who we knew he was. Donte Whitner + Mike Williams + Trent Edwards all wrapped up in a linebacker. Insane. 

[starrymessenger]

2 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

Whether one liked him or not as a player, practically this entire message board knew Edmunds limitations. 
 

Not sure why trained football professionals didn’t see it. 

Its because they are not very good at their jobs.

[nedboy7]

2 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

Whether one liked him or not as a player, practically this entire message board knew Edmunds limitations. 
 

Not sure why trained football professionals didn’t see it. 

 

It's because he wasn't all pro and this board can't stand any avg player. 

[streetkings01]

1 minute ago, nedboy7 said:

 

It's because he wasn't all pro and this board can't stand any avg player. 

One thing I’ve learned about this message board is every year they look for their new whipping boy.

 

Gabe Davis will be 2023’s whipping boy I suspect.

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

I refuse to be baited into saying what I really think 😁

 

Moving on feels good and there are a few early posts in this thread regarding Bernard that have not aged very well. I don't expect last week's play, every week. But if the kid can stay healthy I think we will be "OK" at MLB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since we are and well should be "movin in "

Bernard had a sunday that made watching defense fun again.

 

color me delighted.

Hoping for more from the whole group.

 Miami is s fine test of resilient for the new improved McD hand on Defense

 Go Bills

 

ps sorry to lure you Wide
But it is rather tasty bait

2 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

Gilmore was actually a decent tackler……his issue was he threw his shoulder into guys instead of wrapping up. Worked on receivers, not so much on RBs.

Not sure

[Bferra13]

2 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

One thing I’ve learned about this message board is every year they look for their new whipping boy.

 

Gabe Davis will be 2023’s whipping boy I suspect.

Gabe's already been the whipping boy. Sorry but Edmunds was terrible. He looked the part with his physique and played on an above average to elite d was the only reason he got pro bowl consideration. That contract he got is hilarious. Huge Addition by subtraction in this case. He was the weakest link on this d for years.

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

Geezus. Do you have passion for your job?  Do you love it?  Would you turn down an offer of 5 times your current pay to do your job, or would you turn it down because you “didn’t earn it”?  

The work it takes to get into the NFL deserves some major credit

Nothing like a day job. nothing

 But then what do you do with that upon arrival ?

That is a question we all can relate to.

 

Business decisions are what they are

[streetkings01]

28 minutes ago, Bferra13 said:

Gabe's already been the whipping boy. Sorry but Edmunds was terrible. He looked the part with his physique and played on an above average to elite d was the only reason he got pro bowl consideration. That contract he got is hilarious. Huge Addition by subtraction in this case. He was the weakest link on this d for years.

Edmunds was an above average LB for us……stop making him out to be a draft bust. We went thru the same thing with London Fletcher and Paul Posluszny. Both were above average LB’s that fans for whatever reason felt they were one of the worst in the league at their position.

[Richard Noggin]

41 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

Edmunds was an above average LB for us……stop making him out to be a draft bust. We went thru the same thing with London Fletcher and Paul Posluszny. Both were above average LB’s that fans for whatever reason felt they were one of the worst in the league at their position.

 

By what objective measure was Edmunds "above average"? Maybe last year he was in the top half of MLBs, maybe. But look at his stats. Come on. "Above average" LBs show up on the stat sheet beyond combined tackle totals. 

 

The dude simply did NOT make enough impact plays out there to justify anything close to the cap hit he now commands. That is an objective truth, and not really up for debate. (And I'm not one for such declarations. But people need to move off their positions and see the established, measurable truth. Tremaine Edmunds looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane. A regrettable football cliche, but apt here.)

[Bferra13]

43 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

Edmunds was an above average LB for us……stop making him out to be a draft bust. We went thru the same thing with London Fletcher and Paul Posluszny. Both were above average LB’s that fans for whatever reason felt they were one of the worst in the league at their position.

He was an average LB. Nothing more, nothing less. Poz sucked and Fletcher was solid. What exactly did Edmonds do well? He was long in coverage. A space eater. That's about it. It's been so dam long since we've had a good MLB  that no one here knows what a good one looks like anymore. Hell I forgot they were even allowed to touch the ball til Bernard came around. Frazier can take some blame on Edmonds mediocrity too. But he's not exactly tearing it up in Chicago either so I dunno man.

[buffblue]

2 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

Its because they are not very good at their jobs.

I suspect the massive amounts of cap space they had also was a factor. Bad decisions are often made when teams are flush with money to spend. 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

It's because he wasn't all pro and this board can't stand any avg player. 

Lol we traded up into the first for Edmunds. Average player is a disaster for that investment. 

[Ralonzo]

48 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

By what objective measure was Edmunds "above average"?

 

[Bferra13]

28 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Lol we traded up into the first for Edmunds. Average player is a disaster for that investment. 

Hey, but he was better than Keith Ellison. So he's got that going for him. God, I despised Keith Ellison. 

[nedboy7]

29 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Lol we traded up into the first for Edmunds. Average player is a disaster for that investment. 

 

That is a reasonable take.  At least they got a starter for 5 years.  Then evaluated correctly and drafted a replacement which seems to be much better value. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

By what objective measure was Edmunds "above average"? Maybe last year he was in the top half of MLBs, maybe. But look at his stats. Come on. "Above average" LBs show up on the stat sheet beyond combined tackle totals. 

 

 

Relative to his peers (i.e. other starting MLBs in the league) Tremaine Edmunds was over his 5 years a slightly above average MLB. 

 

I was never someone who made excuses for him or someone who wanted the Bills to retain him. He didn't make enough impact plays. I just live in the reality with Edmunds and not at the extremes.

[AuntieEm]

5 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

It's because he wasn't all pro and this board can't stand any avg player. 

 

  It's not that we can't stand avg players  it's our fans generally know who is playing well because we know good play when we see it. We don't need the 'experts'  to tell us how well a player plays.  I don't know all the  various x and o's as 8 never played organized football so if someone starts d one diagrams and some of the verbiage associated with various play çoncepts I would beost, but I can see when a player is not making plays they should make easily if they are competent.   I also played enough various sports to know sometimes a spectacular play is more just knowing where to be  taking correct angles that place you in area that the play is made despite your talent or even lack thereof.  

 

[Lfod]

He almost decapitated one of his fellow team mates. Never was negative about him until that happened. His replacement is making it hard to miss him. 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Lfod

[AuntieEm]

8 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

 

Yeah, who knows if he ever even loved the game, or was just playing it because he was good and that’s what his parents expected (and of course there was money, lots of money at the end of the rainbow).
There are A LOT of players like that in the league, guys who have admitted they don’t love the sport. Whenever you get a player with Edmunds physical attributes and the passion, relentlessness, and eat/sleep football it requires to be an all time great, you get a hall of famer. Those guys are rare, while Edmunds is fortunate to be a pro bowl alternate.

  

  Heck you can see the difference in how Milano plays as well. Milano was signed  to à team friendly deal not because he couldn't demand more, I'm sure Milano knows exactly how much more he could make

if he was all about the Benjamin's.  He isn't because he loves playing and he's not doing it for the money he's earning though I'm sure he enjoys it.  I guarantee  there are plenty of his and college players that look up to players like Milano  and will want to play like Bernard but there likely very few up and coming lbs that will say they pattern their game to be like Tremaine Edmunds.  No one who plays like Tremaine will be targeted to be drafted when there are better players that work on their play to be like  Milano and like Bernard.  

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Behindenemylines]

5 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

Edmunds was an above average LB for us……stop making him out to be a draft bust. We went thru the same thing with London Fletcher and Paul Posluszny. Both were above average LB’s that fans for whatever reason felt they were one of the worst in the league at their position.

Slightly Above average at best, who is now getting a major payday-good for him, but still doesn’t diminish obvious weaknesses.  

[AuntieEm]

6 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

One thing I’ve learned about this message board is every year they look for their new whipping boy.

 

Gabe Davis will be 2023’s whipping boy I suspect.

I got no problems with Gabe, he puts in the effort to  make plays.  Doesn't always mean the play is made but he's made some terrific plays that took more than just being in the right place at the right time.  If he does sign a contract elsewhere because another team offers him more than he's at least earned that offer based on the tape he has spanning all his years here.  Should he want to sign  back with the Bills as his priority over maximizing his next contract I'll be happy to have him remain a Bill, I would not have wanted Edmunds back even on a team friendly deal due to his lack of effort.  I was a bit surprised that they gave Oliver a new contract as I felt he underwhelmed somewhat but seems the coaches knew they'd get him fitting in better than I would of expected based on his play to date.  Also he didn't sign a deal that is overpaying what his efforts  is worth.  He's not being paid like he's  the best dl out there  and if he continues to put 8n the work he has thus far after his new contract then he's earning his pay.  

 

 

[starrymessenger]

10 hours ago, buffblue said:

I suspect the massive amounts of cap space they had also was a factor. Bad decisions are often made when teams are flush with money to spend. 

So they could have paid Roquan?

They are incompetent.

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

So they could have paid Roquan?

They are incompetent.

 

I think the issue with signing Roquan was that Roquan had already been in the building for 4 years, knew exactly what a shitshow the club is, and was making it very difficult to re-sign him on purpose because he simply didnt want to be in Chicago anymore.

 

Easier for them to let Roquan walk at that point, and go "trick" another FA who isnt familiar into signing with that garbage team.

[Brand J]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Relative to his peers (i.e. other starting MLBs in the league) Tremaine Edmunds was over his 5 years a slightly above average MLB. 

 

I was never someone who made excuses for him or someone who wanted the Bills to retain him. He didn't make enough impact plays. I just live in the reality with Edmunds and not at the extremes.

This is how I categorized him, slightly above average, but wouldn’t argue with those who called him “average.” My slightly above average credit was for his physical attributes, the sideline to sideline range and length he brought. Those attributes are in the upper echelon of MLBs in the league. 

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

This is how I categorized him, slightly above average, but wouldn’t argue with those who called him “average.” My slightly above average credit was for his physical attributes, the sideline to sideline range and length he brought. Those attributes are in the upper echelon of MLBs in the league. 

 

I think he had seasons where his play dipped just below average. Seasons where it wad above. I wouldn't fight tooth and nail against someone saying he was average. To me overall I'd grade him out just a tick above. In a lot of ways that is disappointing and I was against paying him. But some of the hyperbole is over the top.

[starrymessenger]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I think the issue with signing Roquan was that Roquan had already been in the building for 4 years, knew exactly what a shitshow the club is, and was making it very difficult to re-sign him on purpose because he simply didnt want to be in Chicago anymore.

 

Easier for them to let Roquan walk at that point, and go "trick" another FA who isnt familiar into signing with that garbage team.

I know there wound up being bad feelings between the parties but I thought the disagreement was based on compensation. He made his demands known to the Bears and held out to force the issue but they balked and he wound up getting exactly his ask from the Ravens. What's more, the Ravens, an organization good at evaluating players, valued Roquan much more highly than the Bears since in addition to paying Roquan they were good also sending a second round draft pick.
The Bears FO at the time got it right when they drafted Roquan eight spots ahead of the Bills taking Tremaine. Not to say Tremaine was unworthy of the 16th pick. He probably was a reasonable selection based on the results of his perceived likely progression at the next level, even if his lack of "instincts" was at the time flagged as an issue. Talent evaluators have to project the player to the pros in almost every case. There are very few can't miss guys. Again not to say Tremaine was a bust. Not at all. But it's probably fair to say that he is mediocre. 
Current Bears FO looks like a clown show to me.

Edited September 27, 2023 by starrymessenger

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, starrymessenger said:

I know there wound up being bad feelings between the parties but I thought the disagreement was based on compensation. He made his demands known to the Bears and held out to force the issue but they balked and he wound up getting exactly his ask from the Ravens. What's more, the Ravens, an organization good at evaluating players, valued Roquan much more highly than the Bears since in addition to paying Roquan they were good also sending a second round draft pick.
The Bears FO at the time got it right when they drafted Roquan eight spots ahead of the Bills taking Tremaine. Not to say Tremaine was unworthy of the 16th pick. He probably was a reasonable selection based on the results of his perceived likely progression at the next level, even if his lack of "instincts" was at the time flagged as an issue. Talent evaluators have to project the player to the pros in almost every case. There are very few can't miss guys. Again not to say Tremaine was a bust. Not at all. But it's probably fair to say that he is mediocre. 
Current Bears FO looks like a clown show to me.

 

Oh sure, money was and always is the biggest factor. But there are nuances and variables in every negotiation, and I think Smith's documented stiff-arming of the Bears during those negotiations was a pretty good indicator of his chances of re-signing no matter what offer they made.

 

You dont refer the team to... *checks notes*... non-certified agent and Instagram mysterioso Saint Omni.. if you are serious about ever returning.

 

Agree the rest of the way on Tremaine and the Bears FO.