Our starting OTs and their depth is concerning. Hopefully a trade is looming.

[Process]

20 years in the league for JP?? My god does time fly. 

[Kirby Jackson]

I agree with @Tipster19 that OT depth is a major concern. I’m not sure how to solve it. The Beachum thought has always been appealing. He isn’t great but would make me feel much better. 

[LLCoolCy]

This should get this thread rolling... 

 

 

[BarleyNY]

33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hudson has been starting at RT for Conklin.

That is incorrect. I'm not sure where you are getting that information. Jones started all three preseason games at RT. He started opposite Hudson against the Eagles, but he also started opposite the regular LT, Wills, against the Commanders. With Conklin out he even started against the Eagles with the first team OL in the practices. Also he's listed as the backup to Conklin at RT on the Browns depth chart.

[HOUSE]

I am sure this will happen, Brandon Beane has a long history of swinging trades to bolster the offensive line

Let me look up the facts and I will get back to you in 5 or 6 years

[TheBrownBear]

9 minutes ago, LLCoolCy said:

This should get this thread rolling... 

 

 

Not saying we should sign him, but anyone know how he graded out with the Bears and Cowgirls the past couple years?  Is he worth signing as a one year swing tackle insurance policy?

[frostbitmic]

Apparently the two guys who make the decisions and see Spencer Brown daily don't share your concern OP.

 

Brown is the clear starter in their minds and Quessenberry is his backup. IIRC Quessenberry played both Tackle spots at some point last year and I thought I even saw him at RG if memory is correct. He may not be a pro bowler but what backup is ? ... He seems to do his job.

 

I'd like to see more Van De Mark and Gouraige this week since Shell decided to retire.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Not saying we should sign him, but anyone know how he graded out with the Bears and Cowgirls the past couple years?  Is he worth signing as a one year swing tackle insurance policy?

Ask yourself this, “who do I have more confidence in Ryan Van Demark, David Queesenberry or an old Jason Peters?”  If the answer is Peters, you should sign him. It is for me.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Kirby Jackson

[JohnBonhamRocks]

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Not saying we should sign him, but anyone know how he graded out with the Bears and Cowgirls the past couple years?  Is he worth signing as a one year swing tackle insurance policy?

See my post upthread: 1 sack on 250+ snaps I think it was and a 70+ PFF grade for DAL in 2022.

[jletha]

4 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

See my post upthread: 1 sack on 250+ snaps I think it was and a 70+ PFF grade for DAL in 2022.

Great as a depth guy that could supplant Brown

[BillsGuyInMalta]

Come on home, Jason.

 

Just to put this into perspective, he was part of the same draft class as JP Losman.

[Simon Says]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

They could probably get me.  I’m sure my wife would trade me for Shaq.  He’s got $

Lucky girl!

[SoTier]

53 minutes ago, BillsGuyInMalta said:

Come on home, Jason.

 

Just to put this into perspective, he was part of the same draft class as JP Losman.

 

Given that Ralph Wilson and Russ Brandon refused to renegotiate his very unfair contract after he was named to the Pro Bowl and 2nd Team All Pro twice, I'm not sure how Peters feels about the Bills.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Given that Ralph Wilson and Russ Brandon refused to renegotiate his very unfair contract after he was named to the Pro Bowl and 2nd Team All Pro twice, I'm not sure how Peters feels about the Bills.  

 

Well... One of those guys is no longer with us, and the other guy runs the XFL.  

[AuntieEm]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

It's pretty rare to have good starters at every single position. I don't think it is the case for any team in the NFL, including the Chiefs, Bengals, and any other good team out there.

 

And there will always be one or two positions of concern for the Bills, no matter what. That is just how it is in the NFL. There will be strengths and weaknesses for every team.

It would probably be impossible to have a team full of stars at every position actually play well as a team.  Think Bickering Bills squared.  The egos would cause massive issues and I don't think it would work out well even though it should create a unbeatable team to have the best at every position.

[Punching Bag]

13 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Between Brown’s play and his health history, he’s who immediately worry about but Dawkins don’t make me warm and fuzzy either. I’ll admit that past those two I really don’t know what’s or what we got concerning this position. I’m seeing some articles about Cleveland having a surplus of OTs and some are rumoring that OT James Hudson III may become available. The little I read about him he seems to be an intriguing prospect. Any suggestions regarding this state of affairs is welcomed, maybe some of you know who would be a good addition for us, I think that we might need some help here.

 

Suggestion: discuss in threads already discussing this.

[SoTier]

3 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Well... One of those guys is no longer with us, and the other guy runs the XFL.  

 

I think Peters would be a great insurance policy at OT but some people hold grudges long after the parties they think did them wrong are totally out of the picture.

[ColoradoBills]

4 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Oh my, even more “concern” what ever shall we do…, 

 

 

[billsfan89]

OT is probably the most difficult position outside of QB to get via trade or another in-season acquisition. You are either going to have to pay an insane amount for a decent OT or go dumpster diving for options that aren't likely better than Tommy Doyle or Queese. James Hudson III would make for a great addition to the roster and I would pay a good price for him (likely a third-rounder) but why would the Browns trade him even for a solid return? He has 2 years left on his rookie deal and he is their swing tackle on the roster (he effectively backs up both tackle positions including their often injured RT) and likely will step into a starting role next season. 

 

I just don't see where else the Bills could look for a legit swing tackle, likely going to be "stuck" with what they have which honestly while concerning isn't tragic. Dawkins is a good LT and Brown I have faith that he will round out to be a decent RT like he was his rookie season. Queese isn't the worst backup option in case of injury to Brown and Doyle has actually impressed me. The other younger options are also there as developmental pieces and even Bates can come in and play RT in a pinch. 

[billsfan89]

8 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I think Peters would be a great insurance policy at OT but some people hold grudges long after the parties they think did them wrong are totally out of the picture.

 

The Bills organization has turned over multiple times since 2007/8 and Peters strikes me as a complete mercenary who if the money is right will play with anyone. So if McBeane thinks Peters is better than Doyle or Queese and has the cash to outlay then I think it will happen. The question is more so does McBeane want Peters and if so for how much? 

 

Personally, I don't think kicking the tires on Peters as a reserve tackle is all that bad of an idea. Peters is ancient by NFL standards but he graded out decently with Chicago in 2021 and was decent for the Cowboys in a fairly light amount of snaps in 2022 (only played 235 snaps allowing one sack) I can't see how signing him to the PS to start the season would be a bad idea IF you don't like what you have on the roster depth wise.

[AuntieEm]

6 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

You could probably make the same point for a minimum of 25 teams in the league.  NFL starting caliber offensive tackles are at a premium.

More like endangered species close to extinction.  I really do see them making some rule changes to try to fix the lack of competent players at that position.

 

[billykay]

26 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The Bills organization has turned over multiple times since 2007/8 and Peters strikes me as a complete mercenary who if the money is right will play with anyone. So if McBeane thinks Peters is better than Doyle or Queese and has the cash to outlay then I think it will happen. The question is more so does McBeane want Peters and if so for how much? 

 

Personally, I don't think kicking the tires on Peters as a reserve tackle is all that bad of an idea. Peters is ancient by NFL standards but he graded out decently with Chicago in 2021 and was decent for the Cowboys in a fairly light amount of snaps in 2022 (only played 235 snaps allowing one sack) I can't see how signing him to the PS to start the season would be a bad idea IF you don't like what you have on the roster depth wise.

What is the minimum pay for a 20 year veteran ?

[AuntieEm]

4 minutes ago, billykay said:

What is the minimum pay for a 20 year veteran

More like what isi with to keep Josh healthy and what can we do to fit that $$ in.  If the numbers can be worked  does it cause any other issues? If no then I could see this.  If ## don't work why then it not worth the time speculating.

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

There was just a good segment on NFL Live, where Bill Barnwell and Mina Kines were listing what they thought was each playoff team’s potential fatal flaw was.

 

For the Bills, they said the O-line. But then they went further, to basically single out Spencer Brown. I am one of the ones that hopes he is better this season, now that he is healthier, so I am hoping we prove them wrong.  

[AuntieEm]

2 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

There was just a good segment on NFL Live, where Bill Barnwell and Mina Kines were listing what they thought was each playoff team’s potential fatal flaw was.

 

For the Bills, they said the O-line. But then they went further, to basically single out Spencer Brown. I am one of the ones that hopes he is better this season, now that he is healthier, so I am hoping we prove them wrong.  

 

 

  Either Brown proves them wrong or he gets benched for a better performing backup whomever that is.

 

 

 

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

There was just a good segment on NFL Live, where Bill Barnwell and Mina Kines were listing what they thought was each playoff team’s potential fatal flaw was.

 

For the Bills, they said the O-line. But then they went further, to basically single out Spencer Brown. I am one of the ones that hopes he is better this season, now that he is healthier, so I am hoping we prove them wrong.  

 

If Brown's back is healed, he's an upgrade over last year's version. 

[LABILLBACKER]

18 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

There was just a good segment on NFL Live, where Bill Barnwell and Mina Kines were listing what they thought was each playoff team’s potential fatal flaw was.

 

For the Bills, they said the O-line. But then they went further, to basically single out Spencer Brown. I am one of the ones that hopes he is better this season, now that he is healthier, so I am hoping we prove them wrong.  

They are 100% right. Spencer is not the long term solution at RT.  And his current backups are worse. Spencer's feet are just too slow to protect Josh.  Dion is a good LT but nothing spectacular nor does he play to his contract. I could easily see 2 different tackles next season. 

[AuntieEm]

10 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

They are 100% right. Spencer is not the long term solution at RT.  And his current backups are worse. Spencer's feet are just too slow to protect Josh.  Dion is a good LT but nothing spectacular nor does he play to his contract. I could easily see 2 different tackles next season. 

 

 

I would love to see 2 different tackles next season.  I would prefer they constantly churn the roster at ol until they have s great starting unit and then they should always be bringing in talent to train as suitable backup replacement parts.

[SCBills]

17 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

They are 100% right. Spencer is not the long term solution at RT.  And his current backups are worse. Spencer's feet are just too slow to protect Josh.  Dion is a good LT but nothing spectacular nor does he play to his contract. I could easily see 2 different tackles next season. 

Im willing to see how Brown looks this year. 
 

Reports from camp/practices have been decent, yet it’s still doom and gloom from so many.  
 

In regards to roster churn at Tackle next year .. maybe .. but with Gabe Davis, Micah Hyde, Taylor Rapp and most of our DL on one year deals.. it’s going to be interesting to see how we address all this. 
 

Drafting late in RD1 isn’t ideal for drafting franchise Day 1 Tackles. 
 

Best bet is for Dawkins to play better in year 2 of Kromer and Spencer Brown to lock down RT… because if not, we’ve got a lot of difficult decisions to make next year. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

21 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

 

Whether we agree or not, Ridley's last few lines pretty much sum up Beane's handling of the situation versus what the rest of us think of it. 😁

[AuntieEm]

15 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Im willing to see how Brown looks this year. 
 

Reports from camp/practices have been decent, yet it’s still doom and gloom from so many.  
 

In regards to roster churn at Tackle next year .. maybe .. but with Gabe Davis, Micah Hyde, Taylor Rapp and most of our DL on one year deals.. it’s going to be interesting to see how we address all this. 
 

Drafting late in RD1 isn’t ideal for drafting franchise Day 1 Tackles. 
 

Best bet is for Dawkins to play better in year 2 of Kromer and Spencer Brown to lock down RT… because if not, we’ve got a lot of difficult decisions to make next year. 

 

 

 Personally I prefer a team that has hard decisions each year.  Means the team is always looking at their options.  There is a reason the average nfl career is so low.  There will always be new players that will outplay older vets or the love of the game is finally overruled by the physical toll of the game.  

 

   I have no problem letting Brown earn the position but if he doesn't improve then he should be replaced once they find someone with more upside and that could be just age.  Age can make or break you in the NFL.  Some positions exp and years honing skills for that position is enough to keep younger talent on the bench but more commonly age and uninjured history trumps a vet that can no longer keep pace.

Edited August 19, 2023 by AuntieEm

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

 

 Personally I prefer a team that has hard decisions each year.  Means the team is always looking at their options.  There is a reason the average nfl career is so low.  There will always be new players that will outplay older vets or the love of the game is finally overruled by the physical toll of the game.  

 

 

 

I don’t disagree, but we’re up against the cap and likely drafting late in the early rounds.  
 

Entering next season needing two new starting tackles, on top of the other cap issues/free agents, is NOT ideal. 

[AuntieEm]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

I don’t disagree, but we’re up against the cap and likely drafting late in the early rounds.  
 

Entering next season needing two new starting tackles, on top of the other cap issues/free agents, is NOT ideal. 

 

 Not ideal no.  That's why the FO makes decisions to bring in middle of road prospects with some exp.  Gotta find the players where it clicks here for whatever reason.  Opportunity to play and get better with the reps at the position, a better fit schematically or skillset compliments what skills the other players have.

 

I mean  we don't see a Thurman Thomas with his all purpose yards from scrimmage if he had a QB that had an aversion to throwing the ball to a running back.  So it always matters how a player fits in with the other players on a team.  

[Simon Says]

On 8/18/2023 at 9:05 AM, NewEra said:

They could probably get me.  I’m sure my wife would trade me for Shaq.  He’s got $

Don't sell yourself short!

On 8/18/2023 at 11:27 AM, Einstein's Dog said:

I think the FO is going to go for several weeks in the trial mode before making their in-season trade move.  They'll be evaluating OT, MLB, and WR2.  I'm hoping for the WR2 move, make do with what you have at OT and MLB.

WR2? You trading Davis? Better to maximize his production while he is still on his rookie deal. Who can Beane afford that would be an improvement? 

[BigAl2526]

I think the Bills will roll with what they have.  The retirement of Shell is a blow, but I don't think the Bills are worse at tackle than las year, and with Brown benefitting from a healthy offseason, he should be improved.  All that depends on he and Dawkins remaining healthy, of course.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Herb Nightly said:

Don't sell yourself short!

WR2? You trading Davis? Better to maximize his production while he is still on his rookie deal. Who can Beane afford that would be an improvement? 

That’s why I included “probably”.  😜 

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, SCBills said:

I don’t disagree, but we’re up against the cap and likely drafting late in the early rounds.  
 

Entering next season needing two new starting tackles, on top of the other cap issues/free agents, is NOT ideal. 

 

I must be missing something about Dawkins because I think he will be the starting LT in 2024. He is under contract for one more year at a very reasonable salary for his production (He will be roughly the 15-17th highest-paid tackle in 2024 as he is 15th currently) and his level of production is still good. He will be age 30 next season and 30 is an age where tackles are still very productive. 

 

Why are people projecting that Dawkins will not be on the roster in 2024? The Bills are tight against the cap but if they do some simple restructuring and cut Hines they will be in a similar position to where they were this past off-season (a little room to work with maybe add one or two mid-level players like McGovern and some smaller additions) so they won't need to cut Dawkins for cap purposes. The Bills have many options to go cap-wise if they are tight (like cutting Mitch and Harty on top of the restructurings) 

 

Are people projecting Dawkins to really stink it up in 2023? Is he that bad in camp? I am genuinely asking because this is something I am seeing a lot of people saying similar things about Dawkins but I am not so sure where these projections are coming from. 

 

I do think the Bills will sink a second-round pick again into the offensive line either at RT or (If Brown shows up and plays well this season) at LT but more so for a Dawkins longer-term replacement instead of an immediate starter. I think the Bills plan generally speaking is to roll with Dawkins for one more season at a minimum and then develop a replacement for at least a season. 

[BigDingus]

Well yeah, we definitely need help there, but don't expect much to change at this point. I think they're pretty set for this year.

 

I hope when some cap space opens up they do what KC did a couple years back & go all in on revamping the line. I think Torrence will be good (though not sure he'll start) & McGovern will be an improvement, but it's still not a great unit. 

 

Morse is getting up there too, so soon we won't want to ignore C either. 

 

Then again, I've been crying about O-line being my #1 issue for 2 years now & any help is appreciated.