Jonny Manziel documentary on Netflix is great

[Bill from NYC]

5 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

I am so glad you both were able to find the help you needed! It warms my heart to hear that.

 

As someone who just lost a close family member to suicide a few months ago, it is absolutely devastating. I can’t even put it into words besides to say It has destroyed our lives. Even just waking up in the morning, knowing we have to get through another day, feels overwhelming. It honestly feels like nothing will ever be the same. It’s like living in a nightmare. We are all in therapy, trying to recover and deal with the PTSD from the events of that day and finding him (it was gruesome, I’ll leave it at that…). Even some of his friends are in therapy.

 

Suicide is a loss like I’ve never experienced before. Any loss is hard to deal with and I am not trying to compare, but it is just so different than any loss I’ve experienced. The questions you are left with that you will never be able to get answers to drive you insane, as does the guilt/remorse. The anger can be overwhelming at times too.

 

I can confidently say that It is not a solution to any problem. It destroys your life and the lives of everyone you love.

I'm very sorry for your loss, and hope that God provides solace to you and your loved ones in this time of sorrow.

[RobbRiddick]

I just watched it. It's funny and interesting but I never liked Manziel then and the doc didn't do much to change my opinion. Great show though. I'm sure Skip Bayless watched it with both hands wrapped tightly around his manhood

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

It's a terrible epidemic and continues to get worse. Sorry about your brother,  the pain gets better but never goes away

 

Started with China creating synthetic fentanyl , sellingto Mexican cartels and by 2018 the whole U.S was flooded with it instead of heroin. Ofs skyrocketed..

Then around 2020, xylazine,  a horse tranquilizer was mixed in and now the whole u.s is flooded with "tranq dope" as they call it. Ods skyrocketed more.

This stuff makes heroin look like candy... Biggest killer in 18-45 age range is o.ds.. it's unbelievable we haven't taken extreme measures to stop it

 

all fentanyl is synthetic. Mexico, china and India are main producers.  The past 3 administrations as well as congress have tried to apply pressure open these countries but there's not much they can do.  they got China to classify it as a controlled substance (presumably to increase domestic penalties for illegal distribution)....in 2018.

[RobbRiddick]

On 8/12/2023 at 1:54 PM, NoSaint said:

 

 

there was never a sense of “imagine what we could’ve done if I plugged in” and instead always “hell yea we did that” undertones talking about college experiences. 

 

Yeah, I respect Ryan Leaf for the way he's built a new career somewhat and actually seems to have learnt something about the way he was. You feel like he could give a kid in a similar situation a lot of good advice.

 

Manziel on the other hand just seems content to carry on the Johnny Football mystique because maybe that's all he has or knows how to be. Like that friend everyone has who continues playing the same character they played all through their teenage years and 20s, even when they're in their 40s. Those guys always seem like they can't evolve because they won't even exist anymore if they change

[Draconator]

5 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Thank you. Appreciate it. I didn’t mean for it to sound like I was directing any anger at you or anything like that. I hope it didn’t come off that way.

 

I really sympathize with anyone’s who’s struggled with suicidal thoughts/attempts. Being in such a dark place that suicide seems like the only answer must be a very difficult thing. I never knew until recently that suicide is like the #9 or 10 top cause of death in the US. It makes me so sad thinking about all those people and their families.

I didn't take any anger away from what you said. None at all. 

 

When I was thinking about jumping off the bridge and standing on the deck, I actually felt peace about it. Like it was the right decision. I'm 100% sure as I would be falling towards the ocean, I would immediately regret it and just hope I would live when I hit the water. But leading up to it, it all just made sense to me. It was hearing the words, "Try the psych ER doc one more time", and getting permission to carry out with it if the psych ER doctor didn't come though, that also made sense. I'm hella glad I made the latter decision. 

[mannc]

On 8/11/2023 at 8:12 AM, HansLanda said:

 

Seriously. His whole persona was basically a ruse. How the Browns didn't have all the diligence on him was shocking. 

Agreed.  Guy was an absolute disaster waiting to happen and a lot of people at Texas A&M had to know it…Shows what a bad organization the Browns were.

Edited August 14, 2023 by mannc

[SoMAn]

On 8/11/2023 at 11:12 AM, HansLanda said:

 

Seriously. His whole persona was basically a ruse. How the Browns didn't have all the diligence on him was shocking. 

Their [lack of] diligence was shocking? Hardly. It's a trend. The Browns seem to be having a competition over the past 20 years with the Jets for who can draft the most early 1st round QB busts.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Yup just confirms he’s as big of a d bag as many originally though 

[DJB]

That was a great documentary. 
 

I actually met Manziel once. I was working a CFL game as a paramedic and chatted with him as he got off the team bus. He was humble and nice . 

[BillMafia716ix]

Manziel was larger than life in college. I never really envisioned him being a NFL star so I’m not surprised he crashed and burned. But boy did he have a good time at A&M. Johnny Football will forever be a legend. 

[Neo]

Great documentary.  No one looked good.   No person, no organization.  Watch it.

 

Impressions.   Enablers and profiteers everywhere.  Father that participates, but bemoans no accountability.  Agent that perpetuates the fraud - wonder who’d take a call from him after watching?

 

Best wishes to kid in his second act.

[Sharky7337]

To me it didn't seem that insightful. Was just him talking about partying and messing up. And all the shenanigans to cover that up.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Sharky7337

[damj]

On 8/11/2023 at 10:05 AM, Draconator said:

I didn't watch it, but read that when he was diagnosed with Bipolar, he didn't accept it and went into a spiral. As one who also has Bipolar, unless you find the right partner/therapy/medication, it is nothing to play around with. I was standing on the deck of the Golden Gate Bridge, ready to jump. My therapist at the time played around with my medication. Thankfully I walked off and went to the Psych ER instead, got my meds straightened out, and reconnected with my now wife 4 months later. 

Thanks for sharing your story. So many men struggle with mental health issues (myself included). It's historically been stigmatized and alot of men just suffer in silence. 

 

It takes a stronger man to step up and get the help they need than to suffer in silence 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

Great documentary.  No one looked good.   No person, no organization.  Watch it.

 

Impressions.   Enablers and profiteers everywhere.  Father that participates, but bemoans no accountability.  Agent that perpetuates the fraud - wonder who’d take a call from him after watching?

 

Best wishes to kid in his second act.

 

I agree with everything however, I think this agent does what every agent does or would do for a big client.  

[BillsShredder83]

On 8/12/2023 at 9:44 AM, major said:

I didn’t like his father’s comment. I feel the parents should have taught him how to be a man before going to college. College coaches ain’t got time for that. 

I feel like he somewhat had the right idea, but didnt express it well. i thought it sounded like they did have him disciplined to an extent, sometimes good parents have kids that are just out of control.... what i wouldve liked to hear dad say is 'i wish they held him more accountable, not been enablers' which is somewhat what i think happened.  we've heard how josh gordon was enabled at Baylor, it was the first thing i thought of when johnny said the 4th string qb was peeing for him.

 

you see johnny being responsible for over a quarter billion dollars flowing in, its hard for me to believe they werent running around sweeping things under the rug. between him and freshly joining SEC, my guess is they were doing anything they could to keep the iron from cooling down. just my guess

[BillsShredder83]

18 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

It's a terrible epidemic and continues to get worse. Sorry about your brother,  the pain gets better but never goes away

 

Started with China creating synthetic fentanyl , sellingto Mexican cartels and by 2018 the whole U.S was flooded with it instead of heroin. ODs skyrocketed..

Then around 2020, xylazine,  a horse tranquilizer was mixed in and now the whole u.s is flooded with "tranq dope" as they call it. ODs skyrocketed more.

This stuff makes heroin look like candy... Biggest killer in 18-45 age range is o.ds.. it's unbelievable we haven't taken extreme measures to stop it

Didnt really start here IMO. This was the result of demand. A demand that can be almost entirely pinned to Purdue Pharma and the scumbag Sacklers.  Aside from the lives lost theyre directly responsible for, they single handedly set back an entire generation of progress. A cost we all pay emotionally, and financially in a million different ways. Disgusting humans

[34-78-83]

Mental health issues aside, I just still can't believe how many fans (and gulp, some GMs!) actually thought Johnny was going to be even a decent NFL player. There was never a chance of that. It was abundantly clear. It wasn't just because he didn't study film.

[Matt_In_NH]

18 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

it's unbelievable we haven't taken extreme measures to stop it

I agree with this....but fentanyl is different.  You dont need to grow it.  It so easy to create and you need so little to poison a population.  It really is about stopping it from shipping in but that is not an easy nut to crack.

15 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Didnt really start here IMO. This was the result of demand. A demand that can be almost entirely pinned to Purdue Pharma and the scumbag Sacklers.  Aside from the lives lost theyre directly responsible for, they single handedly set back an entire generation of progress. A cost we all pay emotionally, and financially in a million different ways. Disgusting humans

I agree about that family however, I am not sure fentanyl would not have happened without them.  At this point it is getting into weed and any other drug to get people hooked.

[HOUSE]

This is like watching Nake and afraid. 

[Shortchaz]

1 hour ago, 34-78-83 said:

Mental health issues aside, I just still can't believe how many fans (and gulp, some GMs!) actually thought Johnny was going to be even a decent NFL player. There was never a chance of that. It was abundantly clear. It wasn't just because he didn't study film.

At the time I didn’t think he would be a good NFL fit because I didn’t think his style would translate. After watching the doc I think he’s a superior athlete and if he had Tom Brady’s work ethic he could’ve been a highly successful qb in the NFL. 

[Cray51]

On 8/11/2023 at 12:14 PM, KCNC said:

Yeah it's hard to see how an NFL franchise cannot do at least a little homework on someone, but it is the Browns after all...

A very interesting story from my cousin who, at the time, was a scout for the Browns.

 

I just found this out last week actually.

 

From my cousin - "We all went into the draft process with Manziel graded quite lowly.  He couldn't process presnap, and his initial reads were not strong.  We actually had Teddy Bridgewater ahead of him, and was our target towards the end of the first round if we had a pick.  From the GM down, Teddy was a higher graded player compared to Jonny.  Unfortunately, the owner was dead set on carrying forward with taking Manziel for the financial gain of jersey sales, and the popularity of the pick.  He knew we had greater chances of primetime games and butts in seats if we went with Manziel.  Draft night comes, and the GM is forced into a decision to take the QB who was 3rd or 4th on most scouts list (behind Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr)."

 

So yes, the franchise failed that selection, however the owner was the main culprit here.

[TheFunPolice]

I don't follow college football that closely, so although I knew he was a star in college I guess I never realized how big of a star he was. 

 

To me, he comes off as an unlikeable tool even in this film. The part about him not enjoying his NFL stint was interesting. I can only imagine inserting an obnoxious entitled  party dude with an enormous ego and absolutely zero work ethic (and seemingly proud of it) into a room of competitive professionals who basically live work and breathe football wouldn't go over very well. 

 

He wasn't happy in Cleveland, almost right away. Poor kid had to actually go to work for once, and his teammates didn't worship him for doing keg stands. It was a little hard to take, honestly. 

 

 

 

 

 

[mannc]

On 8/11/2023 at 8:29 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Last year's Georgia team vs 3-13 Texans ...

 

Texans would win 60-13 lol resting in the 4th lol

LOL...Georgia probably had 25 guys on the field who have been or will be selected in the first 4 rounds of the NFL draft, including at least 10 first round picks...and they had a QB at least as good as Houston's.   The fact that Jonny Football flamed out in the Factory of Sadness, because he wanted nothing to do with pro football, has absolutely zero to do with any hypothetical Georgia v. Texans matchup.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Late to the party. Just finished watching it. First off, these Untold stories on Netflix are really good. Some observations:

 

- I am not versed enough about the mental health aspects to wager an opinion about how they contributed. However, things came at him too fast after his freshman season. The game, money, celebrity status. He went from structure in high school to complete unchecked freedom. 

 

- Stiking to me how much he reminds me of a young Liev Schreiber, both in looks and speaking pattern. Has nothing to do with anything...just an observation.

 

- While they did have his former agent and "Uncle Nate" on, I found it striking that there were no former teammates speaking on his behalf, especially about what they saw from him his freshman year.

 

- I know it's a small sample and heavily edited...but I really don't like how his parents came off. From this short documentary it really seems like his sister is the only person in his life that didn't view him as a cash cow.

 

- He was never set up fundamentally, emotionally or any other way to have a long successful NFL career...but could he have landed in any worse situation than the Cleveland Browns? Pettine was hired to coach because no one else wanted that job. Then you take the flash and glamour that Johnny had and stick him in Cleveland freaking Ohio...on a team that has the most drab uniform, stadium and fan base in the NFL for one of the worst owners in sports. No wonder why he wanted no part of football after that.

 

- While it may not be the tone some would have liked...in his way I thought he showed a lot of personal growth from where he was when he was a player. Seemed very humbled for the most part.

 

- It was fun remembering that 2 of the 3 finalists for the Heisman the year he won were him and Manti Te'o...who both now have their own Untold episode (highly recommend the Te'o one of you haven't seen.)

14 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

 

He wasn't happy in ClevelanPoor kid had to actually go to work for once, and his teammates didn't worship him for doing keg stands. It was a little hard to take, honestly. 

 

 

 

 

 

User name checks out🤣🤣

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Late to the party. Just finished watching it. First off, these Untold stories on Netflix are really good. Some observations:

 

- I am not versed enough about the mental health aspects to wager an opinion about how they contributed. However, things came at him too fast after his freshman season. The game, money, celebrity status. He went from structure in high school to complete unchecked freedom. 

 

- Stiking to me how much he reminds me of a young Liev Schreiber, both in looks and speaking pattern. Has nothing to do with anything...just an observation.

 

- While they did have his former agent and "Uncle Nate" on, I found it striking that there were no former teammates speaking on his behalf, especially about what they saw from him his freshman year.

 

- I know it's a small sample and heavily edited...but I really don't like how his parents came off. From this short documentary it really seems like his sister is the only person in his life that didn't view him as a cash cow.

 

- He was never set up fundamentally, emotionally or any other way to have a long successful NFL career...but could he have landed in any worse situation than the Cleveland Browns? Pettine was hired to coach because no one else wanted that job. Then you take the flash and glamour that Johnny had and stick him in Cleveland freaking Ohio...on a team that has the most drab uniform, stadium and fan base in the NFL for one of the worst owners in sports. No wonder why he wanted no part of football after that.

 

- While it may not be the tone some would have liked...in his way I thought he showed a lot of personal growth from where he was when he was a player. Seemed very humbled for the most part.

 

- It was fun remembering that 2 of the 3 finalists for the Heisman the year he won were him and Manti Te'o...who both now have their own Untold episode (highly recommend the Te'o one of you haven't seen.)

User name checks out🤣🤣

Good post, but I strongly disagree with the bolded.  While Manziel appeared to be candid, I saw no evidence that he has mended his ways or is prepared to re-join society as a functioning adult.

[NoSaint]

45 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

A very interesting story from my cousin who, at the time, was a scout for the Browns.

 

I just found this out last week actually.

 

From my cousin - "We all went into the draft process with Manziel graded quite lowly.  He couldn't process presnap, and his initial reads were not strong.  We actually had Teddy Bridgewater ahead of him, and was our target towards the end of the first round if we had a pick.  From the GM down, Teddy was a higher graded player compared to Jonny.  Unfortunately, the owner was dead set on carrying forward with taking Manziel for the financial gain of jersey sales, and the popularity of the pick.  He knew we had greater chances of primetime games and butts in seats if we went with Manziel.  Draft night comes, and the GM is forced into a decision to take the QB who was 3rd or 4th on most scouts list (behind Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr)."

 

So yes, the franchise failed that selection, however the owner was the main culprit here.

there was similar commentary about the pick on draft night. 
 

would’ve been interesting to see what happened if he fell to the third and was a bench guy out of the gate. Based on his current status, I suspect no better but you never know if a humbling at the right moment would help.

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

Good post, but I strongly disagree with the bolded.  While Manziel appeared to be candid, I saw no evidence that he has mended his ways or is prepared to re-join society as a functioning adult.

I can see that as well. However being that he isn't "there" yet doesn't mean he's not working on it. And really in life that's all we as humans can do. Be a bit better version of ourselves than we were yesterday. Or at least, make the attempt to. 

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I can see that as well. However being that he isn't "there" yet doesn't mean he's not working on it. And really in life that's all we as humans can do. Be a bit better version of ourselves than we were yesterday. Or at least, make the attempt to. 

Admittedly, the evidence in the documentary was pretty sparse, but it looks to me like Manziel is living with his parents, still hanging around with enablers, and still drinking.  He was seemingly honest about the things he did in his past, but seems unrepentant and blames a lot of his problems on the NCAA, A&M, the Browns, etc... 

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

Admittedly, the evidence in the documentary was pretty sparse, but it looks to me like Manziel is living with his parents, still hanging around with enablers, and still drinking.  He was seemingly honest about the things he did in his past, but seems unrepentant and blames a lot of his problems on the NCAA, A&M, the Browns, etc... 

 

exactly my takeaway, but admittedly we know little about today and surely project some of his history on him. 
 

it just seems like he’s still in a similar headspace even if not flying at the same altitude. 

[JerseyBills]

2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Didnt really start here IMO. This was the result of demand. A demand that can be almost entirely pinned to Purdue Pharma and the scumbag Sacklers.  Aside from the lives lost theyre directly responsible for, they single handedly set back an entire generation of progress. A cost we all pay emotionally, and financially in a million different ways. Disgusting humans

Completely agree

 

And there's a phenomenal show on Netflix discussing this called Painkiller.  Must watch if you're interesting on this topic.

They definitely started this epidemic,  I was just saying how the drugs keep getting worse and worse 

[Beast]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

LOL...Georgia probably had 25 guys on the field who have been or will be selected in the first 4 rounds of the NFL draft, including at least 10 first round picks...and they had a QB at least as good as Houston's.   The fact that Jonny Football flamed out in the Factory of Sadness, because he wanted nothing to do with pro football, has absolutely zero to do with any hypothetical Georgia v. Texans matchup.

And the Texans had the Chiefs beat last season. 

[mannc]

8 minutes ago, Beast said:

And the Texans had the Chiefs beat last season. 

I was waiting for someone to tell me that I am failing to account for the amazing coaching advantage the Texans would have over the Bulldogs, owing to the brilliance of David Cully and Lovie Smith...   

Edited August 14, 2023 by mannc

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

LOL...Georgia probably had 25 guys on the field who have been or will be selected in the first 4 rounds of the NFL draft, including at least 10 first round picks...and they had a QB at least as good as Houston's.   The fact that Jonny Football flamed out in the Factory of Sadness, because he wanted nothing to do with pro football, has absolutely zero to do with any hypothetical Georgia v. Texans matchup.

The fact that even without preparation, Manziel absolutely destroyed the SEC.  

The vast majority of 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders don’t start.  So these guys are just going to come in and not have any learning curve?  Just immediately come in as a 4th rounder and play well enough to beat an NFL team.

 

Its amazing to me you do the think the NFL game is more complex than college.  These mid round picks just come in immediately and are good.  Happens all the time right?

[mannc]

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

The fact that even without preparation, Manziel absolutely destroyed the SEC.  

The vast majority of 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders don’t start.  So these guys are just going to come in and not have any learning curve?  Just immediately come in as a 4th rounder and play well enough to beat an NFL team.

 

Its amazing to me you do the think the NFL game is more complex than college.  These mid round picks just come in immediately and are good.  Happens all the time right?

 Maybe on a team like the Bills, but the 2022 Texans had a very thin roster.  I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm guessing a high percentage of their rostered players last year were not even drafted. 

 

At any rate, I wasn't suggesting Georgia would beat the Texans on a regular basis, only that they would be able to hold their own against lower-rung NFL teams and wouldn't be drubbed 60-7, or whatever it was you said.  Georgia would not be over-matched physically, that's for sure.    

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Cray51 said:

A very interesting story from my cousin who, at the time, was a scout for the Browns.

 

I just found this out last week actually.

 

From my cousin - "We all went into the draft process with Manziel graded quite lowly.  He couldn't process presnap, and his initial reads were not strong.  We actually had Teddy Bridgewater ahead of him, and was our target towards the end of the first round if we had a pick.  From the GM down, Teddy was a higher graded player compared to Jonny.  Unfortunately, the owner was dead set on carrying forward with taking Manziel for the financial gain of jersey sales, and the popularity of the pick.  He knew we had greater chances of primetime games and butts in seats if we went with Manziel.  Draft night comes, and the GM is forced into a decision to take the QB who was 3rd or 4th on most scouts list (behind Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr)."

 

So yes, the franchise failed that selection, however the owner was the main culprit here.

 

GM Ray Farmer was a bum anyway.  It's not like Haslam (a total moron) overruled Howie Roseman over there...

2 hours ago, mannc said:

Admittedly, the evidence in the documentary was pretty sparse, but it looks to me like Manziel is living with his parents, still hanging around with enablers, and still drinking.  He was seemingly honest about the things he did in his past, but seems unrepentant and blames a lot of his problems on the NCAA, A&M, the Browns, etc... 

 

I didn't get that.  It is true that if he decided to sign a billion footballs for cash a player today, the NCAA would have nothing to say.  A and M sold 45 million Manziel jerseys.

[Cray51]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

GM Ray Farmer was a bum anyway.  It's not like Haslam (a total moron) overruled Howie Roseman over there...

 

 

 

Fair, I dont disagree.  And frankly, Teddy hasnt been a spectacular pro.  But, Haslam absolutely tries to influence picks, to almost an authoritarian level if he has the vigor to

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Cray51 said:

Fair, I dont disagree.  And frankly, Teddy hasnt been a spectacular pro.  But, Haslam absolutely tries to influence picks, to almost an authoritarian level if he has the vigor to

 

Every owner has done this.  He's just really bad at it.

[Just in Atlanta]

A few thoughts:

 

1. In an era of streaming that shows 4-episode documentaries that should be 2, I found myself wanting more content from Johnny Football. 
2. Manziel came off as intellectually honest and likable.
3. At the same time, I would've liked to have seen some regret for what he did to the Browns and for his parents to take some responsibility for his college-era shenanigans. 
4. Like others in the thread, I found myself rooting against him when he was drafted. Seemed like an entitled, vapid brat. (Turned out, he was sick).
5. Of course the BROWNS drafted him. 
6. I kept wondering, why couldn't he just take a year off, get his head straight, and try again? Seemed like he just needed a break (and some counseling/treatment). Such a waste. 
7. Didn't see anything about his CFL days and thought they brushed over what he was doing now. 
8. What, no video of him playing dead in the end zone? 
9. Kudos to the TSW posters who showed their vulnerability about their bipolar issues. 

[mannc]

27 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

re...

 

I didn't get that.  It is true that if he decided to sign a billion footballs for cash a player today, the NCAA would have nothing to say.  A and M sold 45 million Manziel jerseys.

At least...it's because of guys like Manziel that the NCAA's free ride eventually came to an end...there's something really wrong with schools making billions off of guys like Manziel, Flutie, Mariota, etc. and them not getting a dime of it (legally, anyway).    

[pennstate10]

5 minutes ago, Just in Atlanta said:

A few thoughts:

 

1. In an era of streaming that shows 4-episode documentaries that should be 2, I found myself wanting more content from Johnny Football. 
2. Manziel came off as intellectually honest and likable.
3. At the same time, I would've liked to have seen some regret for what he did to the Browns and for his parents to take some responsibility for his college-era shenanigans. 
4. Like others in the thread, I found myself rooting against him when he was drafted. Seemed like an entitled, vapid brat. (Turned out, he was sick).
5. Of course the BROWNS drafted him. 
6. I kept wondering, why couldn't he just take a year off, get his head straight, and try again? Seemed like he just needed a break (and some counseling/treatment). Such a waste. 
7. Didn't see anything about his CFL days and thought they brushed over what he was doing now. 
8. What, no video of him playing dead in the end zone? 
9. Kudos to the TSW posters who showed their vulnerability about their bipolar issues. 

I came away from this wondering how the Browns ended up drafting Baker Mayfield over Allen. 
 

Arent Manziel and Mayfield the same player?  Texas boys, good at playground football, a bit short, ocassional alcohol issues?  Surprised that they didn’t learn their lesson with Manziel. 
 

but really glad they didn’t draft Allen17.