I have the Bills 53 man roster right here

[frostbitmic]

Author

Posted 2 hours ago

Based on feedback....

 

Morris in, Sterberger out.

Gilliam in Boettger out

Klein in Matekevich out

 

QB    2    Allen, Allen
RB    3    Cook, Harris, Murray, Gilliam
TE    3    Knox, Kincaid, Sternberger  Morris
WR    6    Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter
OT    4    Dawkins, Brown, Quessenbury, Shell
OG    4    Torrence, McGovern, Edwards, Boettger
C    2    Morse, Bates
        
DT    5    Jones, Ford, Oliver, Phillips, Settle
DE    4    Epenesa, Floyd, Lawson, Rousseau
LB    6    Bernard, Milano, D Williams, Spector, Dodson, Klein
CB    7    Elam, Jackson, T Johnson, Neal, White, Benford, Lewis
S    4    Poyer, Hyde, Rapp, Hamlin
        
K    1    Bass
H    1    Ferguson
P    1    Martin
        
PUP        Miller

[Flipnmi]

I think Cam Lewis and Siran Neal are fighting for the 6th CB spot, but there's no room for both. Cam has versatility, but Siran is a core ST'er, so it could go either way. Rapp could replace Siran on ST and should be better in Nickle, but it will be interesting to see if the coaches believe that Cam has made a jump from last year, vs just having another nice camp. Another point that I haven't seen discussed is if someone like Benford or Jackson could adequately replace Taron if he gets dinged. Lot's of moving parts in this decision!

I expect Gilliam to make the 53, so there's probably not an OL spot available for Boettger. I also think Morris will be the 3rd TE, with Sternberger going to the PS.

[BillsFanForever19]

5 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

 

Here is how I see the 53....actually 54 with Miller on PUP.   I think the Bills will trade one or two guys...I have Sternberger over Morris as a surprise.  I have Basham and Gilliam not making it.  Based on reports I considered Shavers over Shorter but Beane likes his draft picks under 4 year contracts.

QB    2    Allen, Allen
RB    3    Cook, Harris, Murray
TE    3    Knox, Kincaid, Sternberger
WR    6    Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter
OT    4    Dawkins, Brown, Quessenbury, Shell
OG    4    Torrence, McGovern, Edwards, Boettger
C    2    Morse, Bates
        
DT    5    Jones, Ford, Oliver, Phillips, Settle
DE    4    Epenesa, Floyd, Lawson, Rousseau
LB    6    Bernard, Milano, D Williams, Spector, Dodson, Matekavich
CB    7    Elam, Jackson, T Johnson, Neal, White, Benford, Lewis
S    4    Poyer, Hyde, Rapp, Hamlin
        
K    1    Bass
H    1    Ferguson
P    1    Martin
        
PUP        Miller
 

Lets refine this.   If you are game, you can make one change to the above list.  Copy, paste edit your guy, cross out the guy I kept and put in your guy bolded.    Then someone can make a further edit.  Each person can make one edit and anyone added (bolded) cannot be removed.

 

 

 

Here are the key guys I have as not making it and prime candidates for the PS.   Some of the key cuts are underlined.   This years draft picks are italicized.  I suspect Gilliam will actually make it.

QB    1    Barkley (Emergency QB)
RB    2    Evans, Gilliam
TE    1    Morris
WR    2    Isabella, Shavers
OT    2    Anderson, Doyle,
OG    2    Mancz, Broeker
C    0    
        
DT    1    Ankou
DE    3    Jonathan, Ray, Basham
LB    1    Klein
CB    2    Austin, Ingram
S    1    Marlowe
 

Ignore the table below, it wont let me delete it.

 

 

Mine is very close. But Reggie Gilliam is staying and that's not even a question. He plays a number of roles for this team and was given a two year extension just last season.

 

I'd say the differences between mine and yours would be Boettger and Lewis are Practice Squad and Reggie Gilliam and either Boogie Basham or Shane Ray sticks.

 

And while I like Sternberger sticking instead of Quintin Morris, I think he'd really have to play extremely well in the Pre-Season for that to happen. Even then, they might put Sternberger on the Practice Squad. The team really likes Morris.

 

5 hours ago, Airseven said:

Not bad. But cut Sternberger, Hamlin, and Phillips and reconsider your PS options, including Gilliam.

 

Hamlin and Phillips? What? 

 

Damar Hamlin will not be cut. Either he's ready to roll mentally and physically, in which case he's unquestionably the 4th Safety. Or he's not and he's put on a Reserve list. After everything he's been through, they aren't going to outright cut the guy. Especially when you consider you need 3 vested years in the league to earn a pension and he's only had 2. They'd never straight screw him over like that.

 

Jordan Phillips? No way. When healthy, he's one of our most productive Defensive Lineman. If we didn't want him, we'd have never re-signed him. And he just came off the PUP and is ready to roll. We aren't going to keep less than 5 DT's (there were times last year during injuries where we had 6 or 7). And honestly, if there was a cut there, I'd cut Settle before Phillips.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, frostbitmic said:

Klein in Matekevich out

I really dont see this happening.  Matekevich is a special teams player.  Klein was bouncing around on rosters/Practice squads last year.  He can probably get to the PS and he would only be needed in an emergency.  Matekevich is needed on special teams all the time.

3 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Mine is very close. But Reggie Gilliam is staying and that's not even a question.

I agreed and edited the OP to show him in....

[jkeerie]

https://billswire.usatoday.com/lists/buffalo-bills-full-depth-chart-2023-preseason-nfl/

 

This is the early first full depth chart.

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, frostbitmic said:

Author

Posted 2 hours ago

Based on feedback....

 

Morris in, Sterberger out.

Gilliam in Boettger out

Klein in Matekevich out

 

QB    2    Allen, Allen
RB    3    Cook, Harris, Murray, Gilliam
TE    3    Knox, Kincaid, Sternberger  Morris
WR    6    Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter
OT    4    Dawkins, Brown, Quessenbury, Shell
OG    4    Torrence, McGovern, Edwards, Boettger
C    2    Morse, Bates
        
DT    5    Jones, Ford, Oliver, Phillips, Settle
DE    4    Epenesa, Floyd, Lawson, Rousseau
LB    6    Bernard, Milano, D Williams, Spector, Dodson, Klein
CB    7    Elam, Jackson, T Johnson, Neal, White, Benford, Lewis
S    4    Poyer, Hyde, Rapp, Hamlin
        
K    1    Bass
H    1    Ferguson
P    1    Martin
        
PUP        Miller

 

Matakevitch isn't going anywhere. With the losses of Taiwan Jones, Jake Kumerow, and others who were core Special Teamers - Matakevitch is clearly the Captain of the Special Teams. 

 

He is currently on the PUP. I don't know if it's a short term issue that will have him activated for Week 1 or it's something longer. If he isn't activated by Week 1, his roster spot could temporarily go to someone else. But make no mistake about it, when he's activated, he's on the 53.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I am pretty convinced Gilliam makes it.

Sadly you will probably be correct

He actually made three decent blocks last year which is a 200% improvement over the prior year. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Ethan in Cleveland

[Ethan in Cleveland]

54 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Matakevitch isn't going anywhere. With the losses of Taiwan Jones, Jake Kumerow, and others who were core Special Teamers - Matakevitch is clearly the Captain of the Special Teams. 

 

He is currently on the PUP. I don't know if it's a short term issue that will have him activated for Week 1 or it's something longer. If he isn't activated by Week 1, his roster spot could temporarily go to someone else. But make no mistake about it, when he's activated, he's on the 53.

He played in 323 ST snaps last year and 3 defensive snaps. He had 6 tackles all year.  6 tackles in 16+ games. 

The prior year 340 ST snaps in 17 games and 19 total tackles but 7 pf which were assists. 

I'm sorry any street FA on a minimum contract can do what he does.  

For that matter Dorian Williams should take all his ST snaps.  Williams is likely to never see the field as Milano's backup.  At least he could see real action for a year playing STs.  

[BillsFanForever19]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

He played in 323 ST snaps last year and 3 defensive snaps. He had 6 tackles all year.  6 tackles in 16+ games. 

The prior year 340 ST snaps in 17 games and 19 total tackles but 7 pf which were assists. 

I'm sorry any street FA on a minimum contract can do what he does.  

For that matter Dorian Williams should take all his ST snaps.  Williams is likely to never see the field as Milano's backup.  At least he could see real action for a year playing STs.  

 

The "Anyone can play Special Teams" mentality is fan speak and not based in reality. Especially with this team that places an emphasis on having core guys that almost exclusively play Teams. 

 

You can think that all you want. But that's not reality or how this regime works.

[balln]

7 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

The "Anyone can play Special Teams" mentality is fan speak and not based in reality. Especially with this team that places an emphasis on having core guys that almost exclusively play Teams. 

 

You can think that all you want. But that's not reality or how this regime works.

Yea I’m w Ethan on this one. 
 

I watched Taiwan jones and siran Neal. Special teams “aces” make blunder after blunder ST plays last year. It was a joke 

[LABILLBACKER]

Not a fan of Gilliam or Lewis but the staff love these guys.  Just keep trying to trade Basham. Even if it's just a 6th. 

[BillsFanForever19]

55 minutes ago, balln said:

Yea I’m w Ethan on this one. 
 

I watched Taiwan jones and siran Neal. Special teams “aces” make blunder after blunder ST plays last year. It was a joke 

 

I mean, good for you. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. But it doesn't change how McDermott and Beane view things and operate.

 

Jones, Kumerow, and others aren't here anymore. So for the "we're wasting roster spots on ST'ers; anyone can do this" crowd, you've already gotten a win. But when it comes to Matakevitch, that's been his role since Day 1. With the turnover that's already been there, they aren't going to turn around and cut him too. If they felt that way, they'd have done it early in the offseason when they were making moves to free up cap space.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

The "Anyone can play Special Teams" mentality is fan speak and not based in reality. Especially with this team that places an emphasis on having core guys that almost exclusively play Teams. 

 

You can think that all you want. But that's not reality or how this regime works.

And STs being a 3rd part of the team is coach speak. 

Football has evolved. The game changes. 

But you are correct this regime values ST only players.

[Buffalo716]

46 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Not a fan of Gilliam or Lewis but the staff love these guys.  Just keep trying to trade Basham. Even if it's just a 6th. 

Every roster needs back half role players and versatile guys

 

Cam is a very valuable 50-53 guy... Can play multiple positions and physical

 

Most 51st guys on rosters are wayyy more a liability

 

He got mossed by the best WR in football and people think he's trash ... How about our 6th db was neck and neck with the best WR in football? He wasn't burnt toast

 

Cam is very coachable and and a smart zone player 

[Richard Noggin]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Every roster needs back half role players and versatile guys

 

Cam is a very valuable 50-53 guy... Can play multiple positions and physical

 

Most 51st guys on rosters are wayyy more a liability

 

He got mossed by the best WR in football and people think he's trash ... How about our 6th db was neck and neck with the best WR in football? He wasn't burnt toast

 

Cam is very coachable and and a smart zone player 

 

100% agree that Lewis' position flex is huge. Disagree on your assessment of that infamous play against Minn, he wasn't really "covering" Jefferson as in mirroring him off the line, as he was a safety on the play and the ball was essentially thrown to him. All he needed to do was "Knock it down!"

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, balln said:

Yea I’m w Ethan on this one. 
 

I watched Taiwan jones and siran Neal. Special teams “aces” make blunder after blunder ST plays last year. It was a joke 

 

If you think that is what you saw watch closer

 

[machine gun kelly]

8 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I think Isabella makes the 53

Yep.  To the OP, nice job and my only substitution is Shakir might be relegated to the PS, and Isabella as our primary returner.  His speed is exactly what Beane has wanted.  We increased speed with Isabella, Sherfield, and Harty.

 

We improved TE play with sure handed DK2.

 

Thats how I’m speculating.  Hey it’s just bar talk for now.  We’ll see.  One thing I do trust is McBeane.  They’ll figure it out.

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

100% agree that Lewis' position flex is huge. Disagree on your assessment of that infamous play against Minn, he wasn't really "covering" Jefferson as in mirroring him off the line, as he was a safety on the play and the ball was essentially thrown to him. All he needed to do was "Knock it down!"

Plenty of safeties are nowhere near the ball when it's thrown

 

He was right there... He just got beat by a better player

 

Justin Jefferson makes starters look silly... This is our 6th or 7th defensive back

 

The dude isn't out of place in the league 

[Richard Noggin]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Plenty of safeties are nowhere near the ball when it's thrown

 

He was right there... He just got beat by a better player

 

Justin Jefferson makes starters look silly... This is our 6th or 7th defensive back

 

The dude isn't out of place in the league 

 

Totally agree that Cam Lewis has a role as a bottom of an NFL roster DB who can flex between CB and S. Just sounded like you were suggesting he was doing well to cover Jefferson on that play when he was basically just in his spot and the ball was thrown to him. (Being in the right spot is obviously a good thing, of course.) 

 

Probably just parsing words too finely. I do that sometimes.

[balln]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If you think that is what you saw watch closer

 

Whiffed blocks on returns , penalties , missed tackles and not getting away from kill balls. Maybe you should watch closer 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

It’s so interesting looking at the backend of the roster, impressed with how deep certain position groups are. Years ago there are 3rd and 4th string players I feel like we’d be thrilled to have had. 
 

When all said and done, it isn’t the little changed between the last 5-7 roster spots that will make or break this team.

 

it’s fun to try and work it all out, but it does have me wondering, is the top end talent good enough? 
 

Time will tell. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by EmotionallyUnstable

[balln]

2 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

It’s so interesting looking at the backend of the roster, impressed with how deep certain position groups are. Years ago there are 3rd and 4th string players I feel like we’d be thrilled to have had. 
 

When all said and done, it isn’t the little changed between the last 5-7 roster spots that will make or break this team.

 

it’s fun to try and work it all out, but it does have me wondering, is the top end talent good enough? 
 

Time will tell. 

There’s some interesting stats -

 

2nd wr ability / production correlate w playoff / Super Bowl success 

 

and then something like impact players. Not sure what metric. But you need at least 3-5 impact players that can turn a game around . Bills really just have two. Diggs and Allen. Von was hurt . I’m banking on Kincaid being one. Need Von to rebound this year 

Edited August 9, 2023 by balln

[Big Blitz]

18 minutes ago, balln said:

There’s some interesting stats -

 

2nd wr ability / production correlate w playoff / Super Bowl success 

 

and then something like impact players. Not sure what metric. But you need at least 3-5 impact players that can turn a game around . Bills really just have two. Diggs and Allen. Von was hurt . I’m banking on Kincaid being one. Need Von to rebound this year 

 

Milano

 

Maybe:

 

Groot

Cook

Gabe 

Kincaid 

[MasterStrategist]

34 minutes ago, balln said:

There’s some interesting stats -

 

2nd wr ability / production correlate w playoff / Super Bowl success 

 

and then something like impact players. Not sure what metric. But you need at least 3-5 impact players that can turn a game around . Bills really just have two. Diggs and Allen. Von was hurt . I’m banking on Kincaid being one. Need Von to rebound this year 

Agree in most part.  I think a consistent OL and 1-2 gamechangers on a DL, is what's needed to win in the playoffs.  WR2, yes, it's great to have...BUT...

 

Let's not forget Cincy, with how many ppl want to praise them for Chase/Higgins (rightfully so, they're great), it was the Ravens that had them beat with a backup QB...if not for Huntley botching a QB sneak.  

 

Just shows theres lots of ways to win in the NFL.  Our DL couldn't sniff Burrow LY, or Mahomes in 2021.  OL had major flaws/inconsistencies LY.  No surprise Beane focused on bringing in some quality talent on both sides....it's definitely our best collective group (OL/DL), since Coach arrived.

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Matakevitch isn't going anywhere. With the losses of Taiwan Jones, Jake Kumerow, and others who were core Special Teamers - Matakevitch is clearly the Captain of the Special Teams. 

 

He is currently on the PUP. I don't know if it's a short term issue that will have him activated for Week 1 or it's something longer. If he isn't activated by Week 1, his roster spot could temporarily go to someone else. But make no mistake about it, when he's activated, he's on the 53.

Plus.  It would cost more to cut him than keep him.

 

3 hours ago, balln said:

Yea I’m w Ethan on this one. 
 

I watched Taiwan jones and siran Neal. Special teams “aces” make blunder after blunder ST plays last year. It was a joke 

 

1 hour ago, balln said:

Whiffed blocks on returns , penalties , missed tackles and not getting away from kill balls. Maybe you should watch closer 

We had the fewest special team penalties in the league last year, had the best average starting field position on kickoff returns, had the most kickoff return touchdowns, allowed zero kickoff or punt return TD's, and had the best special teams DVOA overall.  Other than that, they sucked.

[HIT BY SPIKES]

11 hours ago, finn said:

Once again, the biggest weakness is the offensive line, particularly the pass protection on the right side. None of the reports out of training camp that I've seen reassure me on this point. No viable replacements in free agency left, Beane in "Hoping for the best" mode. Again.  

OL has never been a priority to Beane and it has cost our running game (other than Josh) dearly.

 

Some want to blame the Offensive Coordinator for our running game however what is the OC to do when our RBs are met in our backfield too often because our OL simply gets no push to open up running lanes?

 

Then there is the issue of protecting our 1/4 Billion Dollar investment at QB.

 

As effective as Josh has been, could you imagine if he had an above average OL in front of him to give him another 1/2 a second to scan the field or be able to hand the ball off with confidence such that the D has to drop into the box to stop an effective running game?

[JoPoy88]

14 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I think Isabella makes the 53

yeah no that’s a loooong shot. 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

 

We had the fewest special team penalties in the league last year, had the best average starting field position on kickoff returns, had the most kickoff return touchdowns, allowed zero kickoff or punt return TD's, and had the best special teams DVOA overall.  Other than that, they sucked.

 

You mean all those things he claimed to have seen didn't happen? Well knock me down with a feather!

[Doc Brown]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You mean all those things he claimed to have seen didn't happen? Well knock me down with a feather!

It's just pent up frustration of guys they want to see make the roster who don't because we keep special teams only players.

[freddyjj]

@Matt_In_NH

Good work and much appreciated.  

 

Why does Basham appear on both the 53 and PS list?

[maddenboy]

9 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

. . . Jones, Kumerow, and others aren't here anymore. So for the "we're wasting roster spots on ST'ers; anyone can do this" crowd, you've already gotten a win.

 

But when it comes to Matakevitch, that's been his role since Day 1.

 

With the turnover that's already been there, they aren't going to turn around and cut him too. If they felt that way, they'd have done it early in the offseason when they were making moves to free up cap space.

over the years, it has helped me to think of it as:

 

Special Teams has 3 starters besides kicker.   (i choose 3 at random, since that's how much work i wanna put in here)

 

Then, i try to (hypnotize myself into caring about special teams) figure out who the must-keep Special Teamers are.   Saves me a lot of anguish.

 

---

and i definitely do not think any ol body off the street can play NFL special teams.  I mean, look at all the tip top athletes who have played football all their lives, and through sacrifice and hard work, just cant quite make it on NFL special teams.    Ergo:  that shtt Hard!

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by maddenboy

[SectionC3]

18 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I am pretty convinced Gilliam makes it.

Working at TE and FB and on ST?  Absolutely.  

[CSBill]

I think Isabella makes it, Matekavich does not. With the rules changes, I think the need for ST specialists--as in, that is the only or primary thing they do--is gone.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, CSBill said:

I think Isabella makes it, Matekavich does not. With the rules changes, I think the need for ST specialists--as in, that is the only or primary thing they do--is gone.

 

You might think that, the Bills I am certain don't. 

[Matt_In_NH]

11 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

He played in 323 ST snaps last year and 3 defensive snaps. He had 6 tackles all year.  6 tackles in 16+ games. 

The prior year 340 ST snaps in 17 games and 19 total tackles but 7 pf which were assists. 

I'm sorry any street FA on a minimum contract can do what he does.  

For that matter Dorian Williams should take all his ST snaps.  Williams is likely to never see the field as Milano's backup.  At least he could see real action for a year playing STs.  

Special teams contributions is more than just tackles 

[CSBill]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

You might think that, the Bills I am certain don't. 

 

Unfortunately, you are probably correct (it's wishful thinking on my part).

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Special teams contributions is more than just tackles 

 

Correct. And Matakevich's job on special teams isn't really to tackle. His job is to maintain the integrity of return lanes when we are retuning and to disrupt the return lanes when opponents are returning forcing them into the path of our pursuit. And he does it very well.

 

People say "oh anyone can do it" but when Rex was our Head Coach he didn't like carrying STs specialists and we led the league in STs penalties, blocking in the back and holds because people couldn't execute the techniques you need - especially those inside wedge players.  

Edited August 9, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Matt_In_NH]

2 hours ago, freddyjj said:

@Matt_In_NH

Good work and much appreciated.  

 

Why does Basham appear on both the 53 and PS list?

I had Basham not making it and changed it after.  I just fixed it

[JerseyBills]

Basham isn't going anywhere. Think when Von gets back it'll be a DT, Settle maybe. Beane really talked up Boogies play late last year n McD has been very complimentary of him in TC plus he adds versatility,  able to play inside 

 

But overall this is a helluva roster. Definitely the best top to bottom in the McBeane Era. Love the SB window closed narrative from the media. These boys are going to be fired up, they're starving for a Lombardi

[buffblue]

I really feel like Settle does not deserve a place on the 53. With Phillips coming back from the shoulder injury I understand it, but he showed almost nothing last year